MTG Salvation

I think it’s still ultimately too narrow to keep in the board. Like if I’m trying to beat tron I want LD, and if I want to beat Affinity then grudge or kcommand are way better. As neat as more board options are, I don’t think this will ever make my board, personally.

Won't that be dictated by the metagame you're dealing with at a certain time?

Perhaps? But like vs Affinity this isn’t that much better than a fatal push, and vs tron if you’re at the point where they’re dropping wurms or ulamogs then you’re probably dead. The hollow one matchup is a decent motivator, but I think it’s a touch narrow considering you can die without your opponent ever casting a hollow one.

Is there a theoretical meta where this card makes the cut over all the other powerful sideboard cards in modern? Maybe. But it would have to be a reeeeeeal outlier I think. Maybe I’m wrong and the card is great. Only time will tell.

The new Infernal Judgment seems to only have practical application against Eldrazi (in Modern at least). As Piney suggests, for the other colorless creature decks, we already have better options. Specifically Ancient Grudge and K-Command which are Guaranteed 2-for-1s against Affinity.

Has anyone seen the amalgam of Death's Shadow and Bloodbraid Jund? I can't remember exactly where I saw the list but it forgoes Dark Confidant for Street Wraith, but also doesn't use Traverse like the DS decks of last season. I've been playing several versions of Shadow this season but I'm at a new LGS which is littered with Burn players so I'll be converting to some form of proper Jund.

I really like maindeck Nihil Spellbomb right now. I've been trying it in several BGx shells and it seems to have applications against a lot of decks.

I get the comparison. I'm not saying that it will displace what's being used now but now we have more options. So now we don't just have to find a new deck every time the Tron and/or Eldrazi menace return.

Quote from Piney_Tinecones »

Speaking of NBL Modern, how much game do y’all think Jund has in that format? Any plans for a primer, Delver?

I don't think NBL Modern is a format what gets supported by wizards, it wouldn't make much sense since it would be equal to a "we unban each card in modern" move. They'll basically have to start again balancing that format from scratch. Not that I wouldn't like it, it would be the best way to define which cards really need to be banned, but it would be too time consuming.

On that new card, it has its applications like the ones mentioned, but I personally would love it would be colourless nonland permanent. Hitting a creature is nice, but I don't know about its strenght against Tron.

Quote from chaos021 »

I get the comparison. I'm not saying that it will displace what's being used now but now we have more options. So now we don't just have to find a new deck every time the Tron and/or Eldrazi menace return.

Word. I agree. I love that Damping Sphere is a thing, not because I play it myself, but it’s another check against a deck I don’t like. Infernal Judgement is an exciting card, at least to me. It just gives us more options, and puts yet another check on those robots and spaghetti monsters.

I actually really like it against Affinity, because I’ve switched my strategy against them. I’m much more aggressive and race them now while slowing them down just long enough with my removal instead of going straight Control, and my win percentage has gone up drastically against them since then. You know what would be really useful for me given that strategy? A cheap, efficient removal spell that buys me an extra turn worth of life and also has a bonus effect of ignoring Welding Jar.

I think it’s also decent against KCI. Not only because I can exile their pesky recursive creatures, but also because I’m pretty sure their secondary strategy is to stomp us with Wurmcoil Engines after game-one.

And while not as common, BW Eldrazi Taxes or whatever you call it is also a thing, and between Tidehollow Sculler, Blade Splicer Golems, and their various spaghetti monsters, Judgement should easily find a target.

Very few SB cards are so broadly applicable that they’re an auto-include in any meta, especially in a deck like Jund that doesn’t have the same glaring holes/weaknesses that some linear decks do. Our SB is very dynamic. Judgement, like most of our options, is not an auto-include. But I think it’s an exciting (and refreshing) addition to our arsenal, as well as another check against a few decks that deserve to have some checks.

I think I finally found a list that seems to agree with me, and I feel my sideboard is fairly solid against my LGS meta (which is high in variety, quite a wide meta).

Quote from Piney_Tinecones »

Hoogland's "Jund Trackers" List:

Tempest753's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures(14) 1 Grim Lavamancer 3 Scavenging Ooze 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Tireless Tracker 2 Bloodbraid Elf Instants(8) 2 Fatal Push 1 Kolaghan's Command 3 Lightning Bolt 2 Terminate	Sorceries(10) 2 Collective Brutality 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Thoughtseize 2 Maelstrom Pulse Planeswalkers(3) 3 Liliana of the Veil Lands(25) 1 Mountain 1 Forest 3 Swamp 2 Blackcleave Cliffs 2 Blooming Marsh 2 Overgrown Tomb 1 Blood Crypt 1 Stomping Ground 4 Verdant Catacombs 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Raging Ravine 2 Treetop Village

Decklist was scrambled in the video description. I straightened it out.

I’m playing this maindeck almost card for card, just with a more by-the-books landbase and I swapped 1 BBE for a second Kcommand. I’m thinking about the following sideboard:

• 2 damping sphere
  
• 2 fulminator mage
  
• 2 anger of the gods
  
• 2 obstinate baloth
  
• 1 Liliana, the last hope
  
• 1 fatal push
  
• 1 engineered explosives
  
• 1 grafdigger’s cage
  
• 1 nihil spellbomb
  
• 1 unravel the anther
  
• 1 maelstrom pulse

Thoughts? Baloth is an out there one, but I was having issues vs jund mirrors. I had BBE in this spot instead of baloth before, but I feel like baloth is more versatile even if it’s a little less powerful in some matchups. Idk, thoughts? It feels a little bad not having 2 BBEs in my 75.

Btw, thanks piney for typing that all up.

I can't say I was impressed by Damping Sphere in Jund.

I would not touch damping sphere atm especially since fulminator is really good due to control atm.

Quote from Tempest753 »

Btw, thanks piney for typing that all up.

Sure thing, man.

Only one BBE seems so wrong. Surely the mirrors are troublesome because they're BBEing harder than you. I feel like you would be very favored in the mirror with all those Trackers if not for that fact.

And I agree with anspaughnato and Delver. I've been really unimpressed with Damping Sphere (in Jund). Fulminator just covers us in more MUs where we need it. Storm feels decent without Sphere, as does KCI. I feel like we really need those Fulminators against Control which is rampant right now.

Getting rid of the Spheres and adding a 3rd Fulminator would free up a slot in your board for whatever else you needed.

3x Fatal Push in the 75 seems like a lot, but could be more appropriate in this build, I don't know, I'm not really sure because I'm unfamiliar with how this list feels/curves out. You could maybe lose a Brutality or the 2nd Push in the MB for an Abrupt Decay? Decay is pretty solid in the mirror and gives you more MB answers to things like Azcanta and Blood Moon.

Mm, sorry I guess I made more changes than I realized. I cut a push md for a bolt and moved a pulse to the board for a decay. So the changes are a touch more extensive perhaps.

So I guess you all would recommend going -2 sphere, +1 fulminator +1 BBE? I can see that for sure. I guess I just hate losing to tron and the matchup feels largely unwinnable without sphere.

EDIT: if I wanted to leave in the damping spheres do you think trimming the pulse from the sideboard could be correct? I hate the idea of playing only 1 pulse in my 75 but the card is so painfully slow oftentimes. Maybe I can trim that pulse and cut 1 terminate for a dreadbore so I can tackle planeswalkers a little better without the second pulse.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I would not touch damping sphere atm especially since fulminator is really good due to control atm.

Hey, so I haven't posted in here a long time. Been really busy with life stuff, but I'm going to GP Vegas this week and besides playing FNM last week, I hadn't played magic since the last SCG Open I went to which was like 3 months ago. I took your most recent list and went 4-0 (with a round 1 bye) at the local FNM. Beat Eldrazi Tron, Mono Red Prison (Chalice/Blood Moon/SSG?), and something else I don't recall. Do you have any sideboarding guides for the more recent meta? I haven't played against a lot of the newer decks like ironworks combo and only played against hollow one and humans twice.

Quote from Perplex11 »

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I would not touch damping sphere atm especially since fulminator is really good due to control atm.

Hey, so I haven't posted in here a long time. Been really busy with life stuff, but I'm going to GP Vegas this week and besides playing FNM last week, I hadn't played magic since the last SCG Open I went to which was like 3 months ago. I took your most recent list and went 4-0 (with a round 1 bye) at the local FNM. Beat Eldrazi Tron, Mono Red Prison (Chalice/Blood Moon/SSG?), and something else I don't recall. Do you have any sideboarding guides for the more recent meta? I haven't played against a lot of the newer decks like ironworks combo and only played against hollow one and humans twice.

Great that the list has performed well for you! In general, Humans, Hollow One and KCI are all included in the primer, you can use that SB guide from there.

For my list specifically, I would board like the following:



Humans:
-3 TS
-2 IOK
+2 Anger
+1 EE
+1 Kalitas
+1 LtLH

Hollow One:
-4 LoTV
-1 Decay
-2 BBE
+2 Anger
+1 Kalitas
+2 Spellbomb
+1 Cage
+1 LtLH

KCI:
-1 Push
-1 Terminate
-2 Pulse
+1 Grudge
+2 Spellbomb
+1 Kalitas

It may seem odd to side out Pulse, but basically all their cards cantrip when they get destroyed anyway, so destroying them is actually one thing they want to do, so the only card which matters is KCI itself. And I think they can easily play around sorcery speed removal. Its still possible to cut some Bolts over Pulse though.

If you have any questions left, pls ask! And also best of luck for the GP!

Hey all, just wanted to chime in here to see if I can aggregate any more ideas before I head to GP Vegas in 2 days.

I've been playing all sorts of different builds and have finally settled on 74/75. Previously, I took Joel Larsson's list (modified board) to a comp league 5-0 and Jadine's list (modified board) to a top 8 of a 50-player tournament this past weekend. I liked how dense Joel's list was, but I didn't care for the manabase. I think Bob is better as a 3-of right now, as maintaining a healthy life total is critical at the moment. I'm a big fan of Joslyn/Jadine/Victor Wood style lists with 25 lands and (now) 5 manlands. My losses where I felt a bit helpless were to (unsurprisingly) big mana. I have one slot in my SB that I want to dedicate towards these matchups. Right now I am considering:

Duress
Is the card I am most likely putting in my list. It has decent spread as being an anti-control and anti-combo card. I have an issue with Fulminator being much worse on the draw, and I think I would rather play an extra discard spell to give my opponents' speed bumps rather than trying to win with 4 Stone Rains out of the board.

Thoughtseize
Same as the above, but has applications in taking PrimeTime/Wurmcoil/Baneslayer. The only drawback is not being able to bring it in against Burn.

Pithing Needle
A card that I saw Jadine running recently. Seems pretty good right now. Just off the top of my head, prime targets include: all planeswalkers (Karn/Ugin/Teferi/Jace/Elspeth), Azcanta, Colonnade, Oblivion Stone, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Cranial Plating, Knight of the Reliquary, Archdruid, Ezuri, Ironworks...the list goes on. I do feel like this card might be too soft overall, but it has applications in a wider range of matchups. Opinions and anecdotes on this one are greatly appreciated.

Fulminator Mage
An argument could be made for running the 4th. It's good a wide spread of decks, but I'm not entirely sure that I want to be on 4. Again, it doesn't solve the issue of being worse against Tron on the draw, and it can be somewhat slow.

For reference, here is my list:



Any other feedback on the board would be nice. I might be a little light on anti-Affinity cards, so Grudge might take that spot, but I've been feeling "okay" in that department so I'd rather focus on other matchups.

MCR (sorry this is my first post, I couldn't find anything on how to reference a user). I really think you should throw some ancient grudges into your sideboard. They are fantastic against KCI (which are probably going to show up a little more sense the showing this past weekend). Also, they are pretty decent against the Tron arch-type. If you are on the play, you will be able to blow up their turn 1 maps before they can respond. It also helps mow down Wormcoil Engines, etc. Sometimes this is enough to throw them off their game plan so that you can steal some wins through a fast Goyf or something. While it is by no means a silver bullet, I usually find something worse to take out. They are also okay against BR Hollow one, as they can help you kill their hollow ones, and can still be cast from the graveyard. I think the fact they are game enders against Lantern, Affinity, and KCI while being okay against a variety of other decks warrants them a spot.

I really don't like Rakdos charm in the sideboard. While it is very flexible, being both artifact/graveyard hate, I don't think it is strong enough at either of those things to warrant a space, especially when I don't think you need more sideboard graveyard hate. You already have 6 other graveyard hate cards, which I think is a solid density. I even consider Anger of the Gods a solid graveyard hate card, as it is often good against the decks that use their graveyard (except blue decks I suppose). I'd rather turn it into a stronger artifact hate card, or another sweeper. I think another sweeper would be great in a meta where Humans, Hollow One, and Affinity are some of the most represented decks.

As for pithing needle, I'm not the biggest fan. Often there are multiple cards in their deck that it can name, and if you name the wrong one its a dead card that can lose you the game. For example, if you name Karn against Tron, they might just land an Ugin and you lose the game. Against affinity, you name cranial plating, they play steel overseer/arcbound ravager and you lose the game. When Search for Azcanta flips, it usually only takes one activation for them to pull significantly ahead. A lot of the time, the needle needs to be named before the card gets down to save you the game. While it will definitely steal you some games, the number of games where it does nothing or is mediocre at best is much higher in my experience. Also, I think the card sucks to top deck.

I personally think discard is kinda weak against Big Mana. Both Valakut and Tron are essentially one card combo decks (either casting Scapeshift/Titan or a Ugin/Karn) against which targeted discard won't help much. Tron especially has many cantrips which makes them topdecking another threat very likely. Discard just isn't effective against topdecks. Duress still might be good enough since it might help against other important matchups.

On Pithing Needle: In general, it is always my 16th SB card. However, I always find reasons to not include it since its powerlevel is actually quite limited in specific cases. It is versatile indeed, but I think specifically too weak.

Fulminator is strong, and I think probably the best option you have. Besides Tron and Valakut, Fulminator can also help with Jeskai Control, which you need to expect as well. But like I said, Duress might help for other matchups more. Fulminator is better vs Big Mana though.

@dannyg

Thanks for the feedback. I like Rakdos charm as a hedge vs Hollow One. The deck can have polarizing draws where you side in Grudge and they beat you up with a bunch of recursive threats and where you side in GY hate and they beat you with Hollows and Adepts. Thankfully, Rakdos Charm can easily flex between the two modes. More than an artifact hate card, Rakdos Charm for me is an instant speed "next level" my GY combo player opponent's yard. I actually do anticipate a decent amount of GY decks, and while Scooze is great against them, it is often times too slow. I've chosen to overload a bit in this department cause I want a strong matchup against Storm, Dredge, and KCI. It's also noteworthy that Spellbomb and Cage are highly anticipated board cards, meaning Nature's Claim and Abrade make it easy to break the game wide open again. Despite this, I choose to include them for their inherent advantages (low cmc, specifically), with 1 Rakdos Charm as a spicy hedge. In the end, you may be correct, but I've had good experiences with it.

Regarding Grudge, I agree that it shines in the specific matchups you've stated, but it really ends there. There are no wider applications for the card. It's great vs Affinity / Lantern, and moderate vs KCI / Tron. It might be possible that playing Deglamer / Unravel the AEther is a decent solution that helps vs Bogles, Wurmcoil Engine, and Buried Ruin. The 2-for-1 that Grudge provides can't be understated though. I just can't help but wonder why a lot of Jund "pros" have opted out of the card entirely. I assume it's because it is truly a very "narrow" card in this metagame.


@FlyingDelver

You're right that discard is weak versus the topdecking big mana decks. In regards to Duress/Thoughtseize, I was thinking the goal was to try and make tempo positive plays early on in order to try and turn the corner as early as possible. While typing this response up and looking at what dannyg had to say, I'm almost beginning to talk myself into just punting this matchup all together. Seems a bit futile. I should probably just try to shore up my 50% matchups instead of worrying about adding 5% to a 30/70 big mana matchup.

Either way, thanks to both of you for your thoughts <3

If beating big mana is your problem then I don’t really understand why everyone has just thrown away damping sphere. The card is great against tron, and it hoses the two most relevant dedicated combo decks in modern right now (storm and KCI). Isn’t that right in line with what you want?

The more modern I play, the more I’ve come to realize that boarding to gain marginal edges is not the way to be in modern. You only have 15 spots, and they should mostly all be bombs when they land. For that reason I wouldn’t play duress in the board.