I my experience they do side out the enchantment and board in more sticky stuff. I find it a tricky matchup, since its really a tempo deck that can get ya
No Bob, no Tracker in the md but 4 copies of Grim Flayer instead.
Super interesting. Seems like he still has plenty of game against Control with those 4x BBE and 3x K-Command MB. Still, Bob is probably better against UW because of their lack of removal. I would say that Dreadbore is an obvious meta-call against Teferi, but judging by the rest of his 75 he has Karn heavy on his mind too.
The more I look at his list the more I see he has a good game plan against Tron. The 4x Grim Flayer and BBE already give him a little better clock than normal. The MB artifact hate + instant-speed discard that K-Command provides is nothing to scoff at (imagine getting a Tron player Hellbent and as he confidently topdecks one of his many, many game-ending fatties, you play K-Command and tell him to throw it away before his mainphase). The 4x Bolts give him reach and the 2x Maelstrom Pulse help with resolved fatties. And that’s just MB.
In the SB, 2x Fulminator and 2x Crumble to Dust for Tron lands, 1x Tracker for a faster clock, AND 2x Deglamer for the Wurmcoils?? Sick. I’ve always liked Deglamer because I’ve always hated Tron, and Keranos used to be a big thing back in the Twin days. I also love that it hits both artifacts and enchantments, which, when combined with 2x Pulse and 1x Decay gives him some pretty good coverage, but I really don’t know how I feel about him replacing Ancient Grudge.
Edit: The 4x Raging Ravine and 4x BBE in a 24-land build do seem a little clunky. And honestly if I was going to commit THAT much to Flayer I would at least consider a Nihil Spellbomb or Tarfire in the 60, but what do I know. I’m not the guy with the 7-1 record. Plus, Delver has expounded on why the one damage difference between Bolt and Tarfire matters more than a little. Creatures like Mantis Rider and those that are easily buffed like Scooze, Sacbound Ravager targets, etc., have to be considered. One point of damage can also make all the difference in regard to Planeswalker loyalties and opponents’ life totals as well. Still, I can’t help think that with 4x Goyf and 4x Flayer, the one point of lost damage would be well made up for by your 8x fatass creatures that would stand to gain +1/+1 and +2/+2.
Nevermind, I guess the guy (Naonari Hoshide) punted Day 2. Lost a bunch of rounds. Bummer.
22 Jeskai Control decks made Day 2. That's a lot.
All this Jeskai has got me brainstormin’. If UWx Control started becoming prevalent enough, what’s our plan? How would you build your 75 to that meta? I think for starters you would run the full playset of BBE and at least 2x K-Command in the MB. I think 3x Bob would still be fine, but so would 4x. In the SB you’d want 3x Fulminator. I think Duress is a phenomenal and understated SB card and I don’t plan on flying without one any time soon. I think Golgari Charm is solid. What about Choke? Are they running enough Islands? Does it do enough alongside the 3x Fulminator? I’ve always been a proponent of attacking Control’s mana.
Hy, In general i doesnt talk so much in this forum because i dont speak english very well, but i working in this on tuesdays and thurdays in english class. I play in my LGS FNM and tied grixis control and Mardu Piro and wins mono white taxes and afinnity, i really like of my deck is tunned a long of time and i like this formation:
You’re English is completely adequate for getting your point across. I wish I could say the same about my German and Spanish.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in what I think, but I do think your list looks tight.
Some minor considerations that are really nothing more than personal preference:
1.) That SB looks kind of soft against graveyard strategies with only the one-of Spellbomb. Your local meta may not warrant more than that though. I know that Anger of the Gods covers you a little bit in that regard too against decks like Dredge and Holloe One.
2.) There’s only two cards in your 75 that can handle troublesome enchantments (three of you count EE), and only one that can handle troublesome cards like Elspeth and Teferi. I would consider a 2nd Maelstrom Pulse somewhere in the 75. I personally would feel very uneasy about being so soft to all the different card types running around right now.
3.) If I were running a 25 land build, I would add the 2nd Treetop Village without hesitation. That card is so good and it makes me sad that he doesn’t have a place in my 24 land build.
4.) Judging by the 2x Collective Brutality and 2x Kitchen Finks in your SB, you seem concerned about Burn/Aggro. Have you considered playing the 2nd Wooded Foothills instead of the 3rd Bloodstained Mire? I’m a big fan of the 2x Forests you’re running, and I think having even more access to fetching a painless green source is fantastic in the Aggro/Burn MU when you need to feed your Scooze. I’m not so sure this is the right move though if you were to add the 2nd Treetop Village.
I like the list. It’s a great feeling to finally settle on a list you’re proud of and comfortable with after tweaking it for so long.
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MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
At first I would like to thank you for the compliment of speaking a second language or at least trying, here in Brazil some things are really very difficult, in fact many things I would like to say, thank you very much for the tips. yes I was expecting several agroo decks affinity and taxes are common in the LGS. I missed the second Nihil in the first game against the grixis and in the second against the Mardu I was already thinking about putting him but I do not know what to take. I thought about raising the LTLH instead of a Scooze and putting the nihil on sb but I do not know, maybe take an ANGER. another thing was in the first two matches that I mentioned above how I wanted finks to be Tirelles Tracker!
I really liked the idea of exchanging a look for a fothills, I'll do that. and also put the second TTV, what terrain do you think I should take to put the TTV, twiligt look? or one forest?
@pualotheodoro I think I would only cut the Forest for the second Treetop. The thing is, you have strong needs for double black and double red on turn 3 due to Liliana Planeswalkers and Anger of the Gods from the sideboard.
Right now you have 18 black sources in your 25 land build, which is the minimum to have, so cutting Mire is not an option.
ALso you have 17 red sources only right now, which makes cutting any red producing land also close to impossible.
So you can only cut the Forest in my opinion. But Idk if you wanna go up to 5 manlands total. They coming into play tapped can really screw you over. I think having 4 manlands in a 25 lands build is good enough and going over that number is usually quite clunky.
I agree with Delver here. Some cut the 3rd Raging Ravine for the 2nd Treetop Village. Some cut the 2nd Forest. As Delver said, cutting the Ravine isn’t really an option as the 2x Anger of the Gods in your side have heavy demands for R. I’m a big fan of Anger (and run 2x myself), but leaving them at home is an option too. Your list already looks tight though, so don’t necessarily go mixing it up just because I personally really like Treetop Village. It’s just a really aggressive manland with minimal mana requirements, and I dig that a lot.
Check out this weird manabase from Joslyn Lambaria, the SCG Modern Classic Champion:
5x Fastlands and 5x Manlands together seem very clunky to me, but what do I know. I’m not the Modern Classic Champion. I wish I could get an explanation as to why she decided to run it that way though. I’m curious.
Edit: @paulotheodoro, how have you liked those Kitchen Finks? You could cut them for a 2nd Nihil Spellbomb and that Tireless Tracker you said you wanted. If they've been overperforming for you though, that's a different story. Also, I opted to cut my Twilight Mire for the 9th Fetchland to give me the 18x R sources needed to reliably turn-three Anger of the Gods. You could think about going that route too. Again, none of these suggestions are necessary and none of them are necessarily better. These are just my personal preferences, and I would value the opinions of others in this thread (like Delver) more than my own.
I gotta tell you, Delver, the white-splash variant of Hollow One with Lingering Souls that you run into so frequently at your LGS looks pretty sweet. I'm watching the rerun of the Modern Invitational Top 8 and Michael Hamilton is running it. I think it's a very reasonable call with all the Control decks running around. And I think you're right, that build would give us fits.
I'm thinking of keeping three ravines and one TTV, and taking a bloostained mire at one fothhills. and take the MB fatal push and put the LTLH in your place and put the spellbomb in its place on the SB. what do you think? play without pushs? 4 bolts 1 terminate 2 Komand 1 pulse. Or maybe cut one Bob? The boy win invitatinal play only 3.
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Modern:
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
I gotta tell you, Delver, the white-splash variant of Hollow One with Lingering Souls that you run into so frequently at your LGS looks pretty sweet. I'm watching the rerun of the Modern Invitational Top 8 and Michael Hamilton is running it. I think it's a very reasonable call with all the Control decks running around. And I think you're right, that build would give us fits.
I'm thinking of keeping three ravines and one TTV, and taking a bloostained mire at one fothhills. and take the MB fatal push and put the LTLH in your place and put the spellbomb in its place on the SB. what do you think? play without pushs? 4 bolts 1 terminate 2 Komand 1 pulse. Or maybe cut one Bob? The boy win invitatinal play only 3.
You can do that all if you like. It all depends on what you expect to play against.
Also, I opted to cut my Twilight Mire for the 9th Fetchland to give me the 18x R sources needed to reliably turn-three Anger of the Gods. You could think about going that route too. Again, none of these suggestions are necessary and none of them are necessarily better. These are just my personal preferences, and I would value the opinions of others in this thread (like Delver) more than my own.
Yeah I think that is a good idea, I would do that. I personally have 18 sources through the fact that I only run 3 basics, which allows me to still run Mire.
Hello guys, I'm new with Jund in fact I'll bring it to the first local tournament on friday.
I was reading the conversiation and I thought: what about Surgical if you expect to run into many gy based decks and especially Lingering Souls?
I mostly played Maverick in Legacy and I really abused Surgical for obvious reasons but it seems very viable to me in modern as well. It's also quite a flexible card good against many things (tron, combo, souls, bloodghast...)
Is Spellbomb strictly better? I'll run 1/1 split untill I figure out the meta
The thing with Surgical in modern is, that against GY based decks, its often just not enough. Look at Hollow One, extracting one threat won't do anything basically. Surgical is therefore not really a good GY hate card. I would generally refer to this card as being a combo hate card, not a gy hate card. It just happens that many combo decks are gy based naturally, which mixes the purpose of the card up.
As for Lingering Souls: In general, when we talk about attrition based matchups (which are essentially the ones where Souls will see play) Surgical is not a card you want to bring in. The only exception to this is Mardu Pyromancer. However, thats more so because the deck strongly depends on the GY and without Looting or Reveler the deck is significantly weaker. Here you primarily want to hit those cards. Souls is just splashdmg. But don't be the person to bring in Surgical against Abzan or Deadguy Ale, its not a good idea.
Infernal Judgement seems like a good SB card against Eldrazi, affinity, and Tron.
Oh ****, dude. That card is some legitimate hate. Like, “Oops, this card barely slipped into Modern because it’s in 8th Edition” type hate. I am extremely excited about this. “Nice Cranial Plating, buddy.”
Seems like a decent include against Hollow One too, right?
I bet NBL Modern will like this as well, judging by all the Eldrazi decks at the invitational.
Speaking of NBL Modern, how much game do y’all think Jund has in that format? Any plans for a primer, Delver?
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MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
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Lands 25
2 Swamp
1 forest
1 mountain
1 twilight mire
4 blackcleave cliffs
2 overgrown tomb
1 stomping ground
1 blood crypt
1 Treetop Village
3 raging ravine
1 wooded foothills
3 bloodstained mire
4 verdant catacombs
Creatures 14
3 dark confidant
3 scavenging ooze
4 tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Other 21
3 lightning bolt
2 maelstrom pulse
2 kolaghan’s command
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the veil
2 Fatal Push
1 terminate
1 abrupt decay
Sideboard 15
1 collective brutality
1 damping sphere
2 ancient grudge
2 fulminator mage
1 damnation
2 Anger of the gods
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 grafdiggers cage
1 jund charm
1 thoughtseize
From your list, I would do the following:
+1 CB
+2 Fulminator
+1 Damnation
+2 Anger
-4 LoTV
-2 IOK
But I really dont think the combo is an issue after game 1. I think they would side out the enchantment.
Super interesting. Seems like he still has plenty of game against Control with those 4x BBE and 3x K-Command MB. Still, Bob is probably better against UW because of their lack of removal. I would say that Dreadbore is an obvious meta-call against Teferi, but judging by the rest of his 75 he has Karn heavy on his mind too.
The more I look at his list the more I see he has a good game plan against Tron. The 4x Grim Flayer and BBE already give him a little better clock than normal. The MB artifact hate + instant-speed discard that K-Command provides is nothing to scoff at (imagine getting a Tron player Hellbent and as he confidently topdecks one of his many, many game-ending fatties, you play K-Command and tell him to throw it away before his mainphase). The 4x Bolts give him reach and the 2x Maelstrom Pulse help with resolved fatties. And that’s just MB.
In the SB, 2x Fulminator and 2x Crumble to Dust for Tron lands, 1x Tracker for a faster clock, AND 2x Deglamer for the Wurmcoils?? Sick. I’ve always liked Deglamer because I’ve always hated Tron, and Keranos used to be a big thing back in the Twin days. I also love that it hits both artifacts and enchantments, which, when combined with 2x Pulse and 1x Decay gives him some pretty good coverage, but I really don’t know how I feel about him replacing Ancient Grudge.
Edit: The 4x Raging Ravine and 4x BBE in a 24-land build do seem a little clunky. And honestly if I was going to commit THAT much to Flayer I would at least consider a Nihil Spellbomb or Tarfire in the 60, but what do I know. I’m not the guy with the 7-1 record. Plus, Delver has expounded on why the one damage difference between Bolt and Tarfire matters more than a little. Creatures like Mantis Rider and those that are easily buffed like Scooze, Sacbound Ravager targets, etc., have to be considered. One point of damage can also make all the difference in regard to Planeswalker loyalties and opponents’ life totals as well. Still, I can’t help think that with 4x Goyf and 4x Flayer, the one point of lost damage would be well made up for by your 8x fatass creatures that would stand to gain +1/+1 and +2/+2.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
22 Jeskai Control decks made Day 2. That's a lot.
All this Jeskai has got me brainstormin’. If UWx Control started becoming prevalent enough, what’s our plan? How would you build your 75 to that meta? I think for starters you would run the full playset of BBE and at least 2x K-Command in the MB. I think 3x Bob would still be fine, but so would 4x. In the SB you’d want 3x Fulminator. I think Duress is a phenomenal and understated SB card and I don’t plan on flying without one any time soon. I think Golgari Charm is solid. What about Choke? Are they running enough Islands? Does it do enough alongside the 3x Fulminator? I’ve always been a proponent of attacking Control’s mana.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Lands 25
2 Swamp
2 forest
1 twilight mire
4 blackcleave cliffs
2 overgrown tomb
1 stomping ground
1 blood crypt
1 Treetop Village
3 raging ravine
1 wooded foothills
3 bloodstained mire
4 verdant catacombs
Creatures 14
4 dark confidant
3 scavenging ooze
4 tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Other 21
4 lightning bolt
1 maelstrom pulse
2 kolaghan’s command
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the veil
1 Fatal Push
1 terminate
1 abrupt decay
Sideboard 15
2 collective brutality
2 kitchen finks
2 ancient grudge
3 fulminator mage
2 Anger of the gods
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 grim lavamncer
1 engenred explosives
1 LTLH
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
I wouldn’t put too much stock in what I think, but I do think your list looks tight.
Some minor considerations that are really nothing more than personal preference:
1.) That SB looks kind of soft against graveyard strategies with only the one-of Spellbomb. Your local meta may not warrant more than that though. I know that Anger of the Gods covers you a little bit in that regard too against decks like Dredge and Holloe One.
2.) There’s only two cards in your 75 that can handle troublesome enchantments (three of you count EE), and only one that can handle troublesome cards like Elspeth and Teferi. I would consider a 2nd Maelstrom Pulse somewhere in the 75. I personally would feel very uneasy about being so soft to all the different card types running around right now.
3.) If I were running a 25 land build, I would add the 2nd Treetop Village without hesitation. That card is so good and it makes me sad that he doesn’t have a place in my 24 land build.
4.) Judging by the 2x Collective Brutality and 2x Kitchen Finks in your SB, you seem concerned about Burn/Aggro. Have you considered playing the 2nd Wooded Foothills instead of the 3rd Bloodstained Mire? I’m a big fan of the 2x Forests you’re running, and I think having even more access to fetching a painless green source is fantastic in the Aggro/Burn MU when you need to feed your Scooze. I’m not so sure this is the right move though if you were to add the 2nd Treetop Village.
I like the list. It’s a great feeling to finally settle on a list you’re proud of and comfortable with after tweaking it for so long.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I really liked the idea of exchanging a look for a fothills, I'll do that. and also put the second TTV, what terrain do you think I should take to put the TTV, twiligt look? or one forest?
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
Right now you have 18 black sources in your 25 land build, which is the minimum to have, so cutting Mire is not an option.
ALso you have 17 red sources only right now, which makes cutting any red producing land also close to impossible.
So you can only cut the Forest in my opinion. But Idk if you wanna go up to 5 manlands total. They coming into play tapped can really screw you over. I think having 4 manlands in a 25 lands build is good enough and going over that number is usually quite clunky.
Check out this weird manabase from Joslyn Lambaria, the SCG Modern Classic Champion:
Joslyn Lambaria’s Jund
5x Fastlands and 5x Manlands together seem very clunky to me, but what do I know. I’m not the Modern Classic Champion. I wish I could get an explanation as to why she decided to run it that way though. I’m curious.
Edit: @paulotheodoro, how have you liked those Kitchen Finks? You could cut them for a 2nd Nihil Spellbomb and that Tireless Tracker you said you wanted. If they've been overperforming for you though, that's a different story. Also, I opted to cut my Twilight Mire for the 9th Fetchland to give me the 18x R sources needed to reliably turn-three Anger of the Gods. You could think about going that route too. Again, none of these suggestions are necessary and none of them are necessarily better. These are just my personal preferences, and I would value the opinions of others in this thread (like Delver) more than my own.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Decklist
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
Its real yeah. I think this version is impossible to beat for us.
You can do that all if you like. It all depends on what you expect to play against.
Yeah I think that is a good idea, I would do that. I personally have 18 sources through the fact that I only run 3 basics, which allows me to still run Mire.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The thing with Surgical in modern is, that against GY based decks, its often just not enough. Look at Hollow One, extracting one threat won't do anything basically. Surgical is therefore not really a good GY hate card. I would generally refer to this card as being a combo hate card, not a gy hate card. It just happens that many combo decks are gy based naturally, which mixes the purpose of the card up.
As for Lingering Souls: In general, when we talk about attrition based matchups (which are essentially the ones where Souls will see play) Surgical is not a card you want to bring in. The only exception to this is Mardu Pyromancer. However, thats more so because the deck strongly depends on the GY and without Looting or Reveler the deck is significantly weaker. Here you primarily want to hit those cards. Souls is just splashdmg. But don't be the person to bring in Surgical against Abzan or Deadguy Ale, its not a good idea.
Oh ****, dude. That card is some legitimate hate. Like, “Oops, this card barely slipped into Modern because it’s in 8th Edition” type hate. I am extremely excited about this. “Nice Cranial Plating, buddy.”
Seems like a decent include against Hollow One too, right?
I bet NBL Modern will like this as well, judging by all the Eldrazi decks at the invitational.
Speaking of NBL Modern, how much game do y’all think Jund has in that format? Any plans for a primer, Delver?
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB