I know I am a little late to the conversation here, but for all of you people wishing to try out mana dork builds, what about something like Wild Cantor? Pros: Has a power, hits any colour of mana, can be cast off green or red making it better against BM, can attack with it and use its mana in second main phase. Cons: No evasion, one time use, bad top deck (So are any mana dorks, unless it is in a BM matchup, then it could be better than other dorks depending on circumstances.)
That said, I am not too fond of any dork in jund, but just thought that those that want to try it, may not have thought of this card as it hasn't been mentioned yet.
As an aside, is anyone running Damping Sphere in their board in case of tron/e-tron or do we think it is too slow and low impact to take up SB slots? I think the second paragraph might be more relevant in more match-ups than the first paragraph though. If we can get it out early enough against aggro decks, it could slow them down enough to up our win % by a significant margin I think. It would definitely be better on the play than the draw, but I think it would definitely merit some testing to be sure if it would be good enough or not. I am thinking of trying it out tonight in the board, if I do I will report back tomorrow with my thoughts on it.
Thoughts? My 60 looks a lot like Reid’s fast jund, just swapped two bolts for two tarfires and the spellbomb for a second fatal push. I also swapped the 4th ravine for a blooming marsh, and 1 pulse for a 2nd terminate.
I had kitchen finks in the sideboard before courser, but I feel like I’d bring both cards in in a lot of the same matchups. Sideboarding into finks and anger of the gods at once seems a bit confused, so I changed it.
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Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Hey what's up guys? So I see that there is still some lists opting to not jam Fatal Push at all in their 75, sometimes there is one in the board of those list. The meta overall seems to be rather aggressively slanted, so it seems as though push would be solid. I've been going between 1-2 Push's maindeck, and I couldn't imagine not jamming them, I the current meta. Thoughts on that?
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Dead at birth as we slowly decay - We're born only to fade away
We got no future, we got no hope
Our life is pain and it's hard to cope.
Thoughts? My 60 looks a lot like Reid’s fast jund, just swapped two bolts for two tarfires and the spellbomb for a second fatal push. I also swapped the 4th ravine for a blooming marsh, and 1 pulse for a 2nd terminate.
I had kitchen finks in the sideboard before courser, but I feel like I’d bring both cards in in a lot of the same matchups. Sideboarding into finks and anger of the gods at once seems a bit confused, so I changed it.
I have the impression that Fulminator Mage is only here for Tron at this point. And I personally would lean more towards Damping Sphere. I would cut 1 Fulminator for another Hollow One hate (like Cage).
Am personally not sure about Courser. I think Huntmaster would be stronger in this position. However, I think Kitchen Finks is still good as well, despite we boarding it in alongside Anger sometimes.
Hey what's up guys? So I see that there is still some lists opting to not jam Fatal Push at all in their 75, sometimes there is one in the board of those list. The meta overall seems to be rather aggressively slanted, so it seems as though push would be solid. I've been going between 1-2 Push's maindeck, and I couldn't imagine not jamming them, I the current meta. Thoughts on that?
In our forum, most people at least run 1-2 Push. Which lists do you saw not running any pushes main?
As follow-up from yesterday, I went to my tournament with Damping Sphere in the board. Never came up to any relevant matches to side it in for, so no results on that front. Ended up 2-1-1 at the end of the night.
Round 1 was a new player who had only been playing about 3 weeks he said. His deck was about 130 cards and mostly singleton. 2-0
Round 2 was against Goblins. Game 1 he topdecked a blood moon turn 3 which shut me out of the game essentially from that point as I only kept a 1-fetch hand. Had a swamp and 2 "mountains" then drew nothing but green cards. Game 2 was a lot better. Turn 1 & 2 disruption. Kept a hand without a threat, but had a fair amount of removal and disruption and hoped to draw into some sort of threat, and did not. Game went for about 10 turns before he finally managed to finish me off. No blood moon at least. 0-2
Round 3 was against a homebrew UG control type deck. Not too sure what his end-game plan was. Saw Goyf from him a couple times and that's about it aside from snapcasters. 2-0
Round 4 was Blue prison as my opponent called it. Basically artifacts and Tezzeret. Things like Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Welding Jar, Engineered Explosives to lock you out of the game while they try and get their win-con, which I never saw. I scooped game 1 because I had no way out. Game 2 I killed him literally as time for round was called. 1-1
Basically I just need to try and keep better hands. I have a hard time with that. I will think a hand looks great for the match, but then never draw into what I need to finish the game. This was also my first time back to 3 BBE and it was great. Saw it frequently, and cast it lots to good results. Usually into a second threat like a Goyf or Lilli. Overall it was a pretty good night. We are in a Snapcaster league, where top 8 after 6 weeks of point farming gets entered into a tournament where the winner gets a Snapcaster. After last night I think I am sitting in 4th about half way through.
That is 58 cards (I don't have a 4th Lili, that's why the singleton Last Hope). I've been pondering about the last two, here are some options that I'm currently considering:
My meta consists more or less of Burn, ETron, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, Storm, and Jeskai Control.
What do you guys suggest as my starting point? Thanks!
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
That is 58 cards (I don't have a 4th Lili, that's why the singleton Last Hope). I've been pondering about the last two, here are some options that I'm currently considering:
My meta consists more or less of Burn, ETron, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, Storm, and Jeskai Control.
What do you guys suggest as my starting point? Thanks!
My vote goes for the 4th Bolt because I think any red deck without 4 bolts is a cardinal sin. I also like an Abrupt Decay just for its utility, even though sometimes it can be underwhelming.
EDIT: Also, congrats on finishing the list! That’s a great moment to sleeve it up for the first time. Hope you kill it out there
That is 58 cards (I don't have a 4th Lili, that's why the singleton Last Hope). I've been pondering about the last two, here are some options that I'm currently considering:
My meta consists more or less of Burn, ETron, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, Storm, and Jeskai Control.
What do you guys suggest as my starting point? Thanks!
Looks good so far, generally any combination of the cards you mention would fit nicely in your 60 main deck as they're impactful 1 for 1 cards.
Remember that theres no set in stone deck list for Jund decks. You should try to tune them as best as you can for a certain meta.
You mention your meta is Burn, ETron, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, Storm, and Jeskai Control. So terminate is most likely a sub par card against most of the field. Burn and affinity are better fought with bolt, push, grim lavamancer. Collective brutality generally doesn't get much main deck attention and could be better suited for the side.
Given your meta I would add in the fourth bolt, and the abrupt decay as a catch all plus has more utility vs a search for azcanta or any bloodmoon shenanigans out of affinity/mardu/storm.
Is there any specific reason you run kalitas over a huntmaster or a fourth BBE? Just curious.
Kalitas is amazing vs Humans and Hollow One atm, I do recommend running a copy in the 75.
I think your list could benefit from a Decay quite nicely. As a second copy I would actually consider Spellbomb. Its a nice card against Mardu, Storm and decent against Control. Plus it cantrips.
@SchofieldSays: Indeed it was a great moment! I coming back to the game after 6 years. When I left Jund was a powerhouse and I never thought that someday I would be able to sleeve it up
@Jund Em In: Kalitas is at the moment an experiment. I like it for the reasons Delver mention
@FlyingDelver: I have two Spellbomb on the side, I'll start from there and see how it goes.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I like it, Delver. Let us know how you feel about it after you put a few miles on it. I’ve been running some other archetypes lately just to shake things up, but it’s been long enough, I wanna run Jund again for awhile. The Grim Flayer is new to me. Looking forward to trying it.
I guess achieving Delirium on two cards isn’t enough of a concern to run a Tarfire?
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MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I may change my main to something similar to that, since I just learned that the last Goyf I bought is a counterfeit. The seller is taking it back and reimbursing me for the full amount, but now I have only 3... maybe time to try Grim Flayer!
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I like it, Delver. Let us know how you feel about it after you put a few miles on it. I’ve been running some other archetypes lately just to shake things up, but it’s been long enough, I wanna run Jund again for awhile. The Grim Flayer is new to me. Looking forward to trying it.
I guess achieving Delirium on two cards isn’t enough of a concern to run a Tarfire?
No, don't build your deck to achieve delirium, it is not meant to be achieved. In fact, its very unreliable. Flayer is only there to have more chance of curving turn 1 discard/removal into turn 2 powerful threat. Thats the games where we are typically in a good position, and its a good idea to maximize that type of opening sequence. Flayer has the upside that it could potentially help find specific answers later in the game and prevent bad topdecks which is exactly the issue Jund has right now. We get punished so hard by topdecking nonsense right now. That in combination with the fact that decks force us to have specific answers (our removal is by far not interchangeable anymore) means we struggle alot. And filtering for card selection could really help. Thats the reason to include Flayer. The Spellbomb is mainly there because its good against Hollow one and doubles as delirium enable while not being a bad topdeck.
In general, you have 4 bad matchups (Tron, E-Tron, 8 Rack and Tokens) as well as 2 good ones (Merfolk and Affinity) and 2 even ones (Burn, Abzan)
Statistically you should be behind on average.
That said, I am not too fond of any dork in jund, but just thought that those that want to try it, may not have thought of this card as it hasn't been mentioned yet.
As an aside, is anyone running Damping Sphere in their board in case of tron/e-tron or do we think it is too slow and low impact to take up SB slots? I think the second paragraph might be more relevant in more match-ups than the first paragraph though. If we can get it out early enough against aggro decks, it could slow them down enough to up our win % by a significant margin I think. It would definitely be better on the play than the draw, but I think it would definitely merit some testing to be sure if it would be good enough or not. I am thinking of trying it out tonight in the board, if I do I will report back tomorrow with my thoughts on it.
2 collective brutality
2 nihil spellbomb
2 anger of the gods
2 damping sphere
2 fulminator mage
1 Liliana, the last hope
1 grim lavamancer
1 courser of kruphix
Thoughts? My 60 looks a lot like Reid’s fast jund, just swapped two bolts for two tarfires and the spellbomb for a second fatal push. I also swapped the 4th ravine for a blooming marsh, and 1 pulse for a 2nd terminate.
I had kitchen finks in the sideboard before courser, but I feel like I’d bring both cards in in a lot of the same matchups. Sideboarding into finks and anger of the gods at once seems a bit confused, so I changed it.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
It was posted here.
We got no future, we got no hope
Our life is pain and it's hard to cope.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
I have the impression that Fulminator Mage is only here for Tron at this point. And I personally would lean more towards Damping Sphere. I would cut 1 Fulminator for another Hollow One hate (like Cage).
Am personally not sure about Courser. I think Huntmaster would be stronger in this position. However, I think Kitchen Finks is still good as well, despite we boarding it in alongside Anger sometimes.
In our forum, most people at least run 1-2 Push. Which lists do you saw not running any pushes main?
Round 1 was a new player who had only been playing about 3 weeks he said. His deck was about 130 cards and mostly singleton. 2-0
Round 2 was against Goblins. Game 1 he topdecked a blood moon turn 3 which shut me out of the game essentially from that point as I only kept a 1-fetch hand. Had a swamp and 2 "mountains" then drew nothing but green cards. Game 2 was a lot better. Turn 1 & 2 disruption. Kept a hand without a threat, but had a fair amount of removal and disruption and hoped to draw into some sort of threat, and did not. Game went for about 10 turns before he finally managed to finish me off. No blood moon at least. 0-2
Round 3 was against a homebrew UG control type deck. Not too sure what his end-game plan was. Saw Goyf from him a couple times and that's about it aside from snapcasters. 2-0
Round 4 was Blue prison as my opponent called it. Basically artifacts and Tezzeret. Things like Chalice of the Void, Ensnaring Bridge, Welding Jar, Engineered Explosives to lock you out of the game while they try and get their win-con, which I never saw. I scooped game 1 because I had no way out. Game 2 I killed him literally as time for round was called. 1-1
Basically I just need to try and keep better hands. I have a hard time with that. I will think a hand looks great for the match, but then never draw into what I need to finish the game. This was also my first time back to 3 BBE and it was great. Saw it frequently, and cast it lots to good results. Usually into a second threat like a Goyf or Lilli. Overall it was a pretty good night. We are in a Snapcaster league, where top 8 after 6 weeks of point farming gets entered into a tournament where the winner gets a Snapcaster. After last night I think I am sitting in 4th about half way through.
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Terminate
- A single Abrupt Decay (multi-purpose removal)
- A second Terminate (hits Hollow One, Gurmag Angler, and other big threads)
- A third Fatal Push
- A fourth Lightning Bolt
- A single Collective Brutallity (drains, Duress-like effect, mediocre removal)
- 25th land
- A singleton Grim Lavamancer
My meta consists more or less of Burn, ETron, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, Storm, and Jeskai Control.
What do you guys suggest as my starting point? Thanks!
My vote goes for the 4th Bolt because I think any red deck without 4 bolts is a cardinal sin. I also like an Abrupt Decay just for its utility, even though sometimes it can be underwhelming.
EDIT: Also, congrats on finishing the list! That’s a great moment to sleeve it up for the first time. Hope you kill it out there
Looks good so far, generally any combination of the cards you mention would fit nicely in your 60 main deck as they're impactful 1 for 1 cards.
Remember that theres no set in stone deck list for Jund decks. You should try to tune them as best as you can for a certain meta.
You mention your meta is Burn, ETron, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, Storm, and Jeskai Control. So terminate is most likely a sub par card against most of the field. Burn and affinity are better fought with bolt, push, grim lavamancer. Collective brutality generally doesn't get much main deck attention and could be better suited for the side.
Given your meta I would add in the fourth bolt, and the abrupt decay as a catch all plus has more utility vs a search for azcanta or any bloodmoon shenanigans out of affinity/mardu/storm.
Is there any specific reason you run kalitas over a huntmaster or a fourth BBE? Just curious.
I think your list could benefit from a Decay quite nicely. As a second copy I would actually consider Spellbomb. Its a nice card against Mardu, Storm and decent against Control. Plus it cantrips.
@SchofieldSays: Indeed it was a great moment! I coming back to the game after 6 years. When I left Jund was a powerhouse and I never thought that someday I would be able to sleeve it up
@Jund Em In: Kalitas is at the moment an experiment. I like it for the reasons Delver mention
@FlyingDelver: I have two Spellbomb on the side, I'll start from there and see how it goes.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Forest
Creatures [15]
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grim Flayer
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Terminate
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Damping Sphere
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Collective Brutality
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
I guess achieving Delirium on two cards isn’t enough of a concern to run a Tarfire?
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
No, don't build your deck to achieve delirium, it is not meant to be achieved. In fact, its very unreliable. Flayer is only there to have more chance of curving turn 1 discard/removal into turn 2 powerful threat. Thats the games where we are typically in a good position, and its a good idea to maximize that type of opening sequence. Flayer has the upside that it could potentially help find specific answers later in the game and prevent bad topdecks which is exactly the issue Jund has right now. We get punished so hard by topdecking nonsense right now. That in combination with the fact that decks force us to have specific answers (our removal is by far not interchangeable anymore) means we struggle alot. And filtering for card selection could really help. Thats the reason to include Flayer. The Spellbomb is mainly there because its good against Hollow one and doubles as delirium enable while not being a bad topdeck.