There are a couple of match-ups where Darkblast is very good. It practically beats Affinity by itself. I played with one copy main-deck or side-board in every deck that ran B for a while.
There are other ways to get a similar effect and in general, I now think Darkblast is probably useable only if the dredging is useful.
Hey guys! Ive updated my list and was looking for some feedback. Ive been loving 25 lands the whole time. I know a lot here are saying 25 lands are "clunky". Hasn't been the case in my experience. Are we talking about the spells in those builds? I do realize the lands coming in tapped is an issue but seems prevalent in the 24 land builds as well. Ive decided to update my sideboard to hedge more against the humans deck. As I feel this can be a great matchup for us. Also while keeping Hollow one, Tron, and Bogles as the decks I'm looking for the most help after sideboarding. So far, especially against Humans online has been working out well. I'm going to be substituting fulminator for damping sphere. I was also considering cage instead of spellbomb. Otherwise, I'm feeling good about it for these matchups plus having game against other decks. Let me know what you guys think. Kept mainboard the same as more of my issues stemmed from not having enough answers post sideboard. Thanks!
25 lands are not automatically clunky, but most lists running 25 lands do run some clunky spells. Its just a terminology I use to describe those lists, but it technically has nothing to do with the land count. Its just that I see it as being granted that a 24 land list cannot have a clunky manacurve.
I am not a fan of a Mountain anymore. In fact, I was never a fan, I think its such a bad topdeck later in the game and it even does not really help fix your mana issues if you have any. Its close to not drawing a card at all. I would at least run a second Forest over it.
Right now I can only recommend running 3 Ooze maindeck. Those are really good against Humans and Hollow One. I don't think you really need 2 Pulses and 2 Terminates maindeck, you can exchange 1 Pulse with the Ooze from the SB.
I would run a second EE or Anger over Golgari Charm right now. I think its too low of an impact. If you fear Bogles, run EE. Its also way better against Humans.
Lost round 1 to nykthos-wave in game three off a topdecked genesis wave, and a great one at that. Beat UWR control, mono-red budget aggro, and storm on the way back. Overall the maindeck felt pretty great, the sideboard is alright but I don’t think it’s perfect.
What do people think of jund charm? I kinda want a third sweeper effect, but wasn’t sure how to implement it. Post-Dominaria, I’m thinking of this sideboard:
Thoughts? I feel like having 3 sweepers and a fatal push in the board might be overkill, but I really really despise losing to dorky creature decks, aggro, and just go wide strategies in general.
Congratz on the finish! Glad that the creature base I suggested worked for you.
As for Jund Charm, I am not a fan in Jund. I can't really see any big reason why you would end up with 14 cards in the SB and you want your last card to be a sweeper and GY hate, which isn't just worse than Anger of the Gods in that spot. Since you already have 2 Anger, I would honestly just play a stronger GY hate piece like another Spellbomb. I don't think you need 3 sweepers with KCommand and Push as extra removal already in the SB.
Thanks for the clarification delver. I do agree on the mountain. Would much prefer a forest. Reason I have a mountain is because the first land that always gets blown up is either my lone red source or a raging ravine (usually my only red source as well at the time). When I draw the land it is bad though. I will try 2 forest. It just seemed nice to have an answer to fix my mana to LD. I will also test the 3rd ooze in the main. As for damping sphere, you think 2 is enough? Thanks
Thanks for the clarification delver. I do agree on the mountain. Would much prefer a forest. Reason I have a mountain is because the first land that always gets blown up is either my lone red source or a raging ravine (usually my only red source as well at the time). When I draw the land it is bad though. I will try 2 forest. It just seemed nice to have an answer to fix my mana to LD. I will also test the 3rd ooze in the main. As for damping sphere, you think 2 is enough? Thanks
Well it depends how much you want to hedge against Tron. I think 2 copies seems like a good start.
I'm not a big fan of Grim Lavamancer, but I still think that Liliana, the last hope already covers the "dark last effect". Community seems split on whether she belongs in the main board or sideboard, so if you need that effect you should try at least one in the main.
Now, If I were to run 15 creatures, 5 planeswalkers and 24 lands, thus having 16 non-creature spells... How would I fill those slots? I love running 12 CMC - 1 spells, but it leaves really little breathing room for more impactful spells such as K command or catch-all like Terminate (I'd love to run at least two due to hollow one).
Also I like changing 1 Spellbomb to Cage, since its better against Storm and also applicable for Elves for example. Spellbomb is only really good against Storm and Control.
Did a little goldfishing of jund v tron with damping spheres. The matchup still isn’t great, but I’d say it’s waaaaay more winnable than it ever was with just fulminator.
From my testing, 4 cards to disrupt tron seems to be the sweet spot and gives you the best odds. Of course you could bump that number up, but that might be overkill for what’s already a bad matchup. Less than 4 and I think you have to get really lucky to win with any consistency. I was happy with 2 fulminators + 2 spheres and I think that setup gives the best splash damage against control and storm/other combo. Your mileage may vary of course.
On a separate note, how much hate do you guys think I should have for burn? My only life gain cards post board are 2 brutalities and kalitas, with a push and a kcommand to stem the bleeding along the way. Thoughts?
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Should I keep Hazoret or Huntmaster?
Hazoret seals the deal in the mirror and can be devastating vs control if they dont have an answer (but then I'm winning anyways).
Huntmaster can be used and vs aggro and provides a body even if he gets removed. Hazoret is indestructible though.
Kalitas is better vs aggro but the 4-drop in my SB is mostly for a mirror/control breaker and a good grindy creature being useful va aggro adds points
The 3rd Brutality is for Burn because it has a big metashare in my meta. Would you swap a Brutality for A kitchen Finks?
For the overall meta, I like Kalitas right now. But I think I would choose Huntmaster if I had to choose between Hazoret and Huntmaster. Switching a CB for a Finks is a good idea, I would do that yeah.
On a separate note, how much hate do you guys think I should have for burn? My only life gain cards post board are 2 brutalities and kalitas, with a push and a kcommand to stem the bleeding along the way. Thoughts?
I like 3 copies of burn hate. Kalitas is not the best though.
It's nice to hear that Damping Spheres does some work and make the matchup more manageable. Of course it's still not great and it will never be- Tron was made to beat decks like Jund so that's expected but every point we can get it's good for us. I agree with 2/2 split between Damning Sphere and Fulminator Mage being correct. This of course can change according to the metagame but as it stands now I think this is the way to go.
I think that 2-3 cards for Burn in sb should be enough. These are mostly different kind of life gain and while this is good against Burn you don't want to overload on them. Early pressure (Tarmogoyf on turn 2 being the best) is still the best way to beat Burn, better than gaining life.
I really don't get this sentiment that Tron is still super bad for us now. With Bloodbraid Elf, my win percentage against Tron and EldraziTron has shot up significantly. It's like one of the big reasons that I like Bloodbraid Elf. I still think Damping Sphere in the right metagame will do some work, but I'm not sure it's good enough to be a sideboard "mainstay."
I’ve been considering my aforementioned list from the previous page but with 3 bobs and 4 elves. For those asking why trim on bobs, I feel like modern is very linear right now and aggro heavy in particular, where bob isn’t always great. I always get nervous with more than 1 bob on the table and usually don’t want to draw more than one per game. Bob #1 is good, but bobs 2 or even 3 are usually just dead cards. Idk, it usually works out when I play two, but sometimes bob feels like the best way to lose an otherwise unlose-able game.
I know it’s a little greedy to play 4 elves with only 24 lands, but I feel like the way this new jund deck operates is that the rest of the deck is there to stymie your opponents plan, then creatures shut the door. Few cards accomplish that as efficiently as BBE.
I’ve been considering my aforementioned list from the previous page but with 3 bobs and 4 elves. For those asking why trim on bobs, I feel like modern is very linear right now and aggro heavy in particular, where bob isn’t always great. I always get nervous with more than 1 bob on the table and usually don’t want to draw more than one per game. Bob #1 is good, but bobs 2 or even 3 are usually just dead cards. Idk, it usually works out when I play two, but sometimes bob feels like the best way to lose an otherwise unlose-able game.
I know it’s a little greedy to play 4 elves with only 24 lands, but I feel like the way this new jund deck operates is that the rest of the deck is there to stymie your opponents plan, then creatures shut the door. Few cards accomplish that as efficiently as BBE.
I don't know about you, but when I have the situation of having too many bobs, that means the first one sticks. And everytime a Bob sticks, its just great for me. Especially with BBE being present now, we need to be careful with sticking a second Bob. In matchups where lifetotals matter, I would probably not do it unless I can safely get rid of one or both when needed. But it all depends. However, I personally think that having too many Bobs on the field is not a reason to cut down on Bob.
In the sense of general interest, I would like to take this opportunity to point out our discord server once again. The link in the primer for the invitation should now work always and I really encourage everyone to join.
The discord server should be helpful for on the fly questions or issues, which would be too elaborate to discuss on the forums since discord also works neatly on mobile devices. Its not to replace the forums, but an easier way to keep in touch. I think this could be particularly interesting for discussion between rounds of a tournament or for discussion at FNM where you don't have the time to write sophisticated forum posts.
So, for everyone that didn't join yet, think about it. I personally just want to make sure our Jund community of the forums have the best way to communicate in a constructive way, thats why I made the server in the first place, as it could be really benefitial for everyone.
I don't know about you, but when I have the situation of having too many bobs, that means the first one sticks. And everytime a Bob sticks, its just great for me. Especially with BBE being present now, we need to be careful with sticking a second Bob. In matchups where lifetotals matter, I would probably not do it unless I can safely get rid of one or both when needed. But it all depends. However, I personally think that having too many Bobs on the field is not a reason to cut down on Bob.
I totally agree. I actually warped my maindeck a bit by running 2 Kitchen finks in addition to Scavenging oozes so I can rely on Bob even in aggro matchups were I will eventually need to rise my life total. I feel he is still critical to our gameplan, besides being able to seal the deal against control decks.
Even having 2 [card}Tireless tracker[/card] in the sideboard, I very rarely trim the amount of Dark Confidants except against Burn.
I suppose I semi-often have the problem of drawing 3 bobs in a game, and at that point you’re not as ahead as you might think because the extra cards you’re drawing are just offsetting the two bobs that are stuck in your hand.
I guess I just feel like either the 4th BBE or the 4th bob is my 61st card and I just feel so much more excited to see BBE in my hand than bob a lot of the time. I could be dead wrong though, and I’m very willing to admit that.
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On my quest to test out the correct number of BBE to play, I have been trying out only 2, and I feel that is wrong. I feel the correct number to run is 3-4 based on personal preference. I will likely stick to 3 of them myself. At 2-of I don't see it as often as I would like. (Usually only 1 time per night.) Maybe I am just having terrible luck and variance, but I would feel more comfortable on 3 BBE.
As for last nights tournament, I lost to UW control due to never seeing BBE and poor draws. (Lots of lands but no Ravines.) Won round 2 against Storm. Felt a little bad for my opponent, he thought I was on infect as I was playing that before the tournament started, and both my infect and jund deck are in white sleeves, but I mean, that's what you get for assuming what your opponent is on without being sure. Round 3 I lost to Ponza in 3. This is the round I saw my BBE for the night off a Bob flip which dropped me to 10. I ended up winning that game though. I ultimately lost game 3 because of double Blood Moon. I had an Abrupt Decay in my opening hand which got rid of the T3 Blood Moon, but my opponent had a second moon in opening hand, so he just had to destroy the 2 basics I had managed to get out and then just win eventually. Apparently there is a large amount of Ponza in my meta, and am probably going to need to do something about it. I am thinking running 2 Life from the loam in the board and seeing if that does enough, and then run 2 forests so I can at least keep my basics alive. The other option I was toying with would be Pulse of Murasa, but I don't think that is as effective as I can only cast it 1 time. I am open to any other suggestions though. I think without Tron being in the meta anymore, I can probably cut my Fulminators out of the board to make room for the Life now, and bank on the fact that other people will be running Damping Spheres to keep Tron out. If I end up facing tron I will have to figure something else out though.
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There are a couple of match-ups where Darkblast is very good. It practically beats Affinity by itself. I played with one copy main-deck or side-board in every deck that ran B for a while.
There are other ways to get a similar effect and in general, I now think Darkblast is probably useable only if the dredging is useful.
That doesn't seem to be the case in Jund.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
25 lands are not automatically clunky, but most lists running 25 lands do run some clunky spells. Its just a terminology I use to describe those lists, but it technically has nothing to do with the land count. Its just that I see it as being granted that a 24 land list cannot have a clunky manacurve.
I am not a fan of a Mountain anymore. In fact, I was never a fan, I think its such a bad topdeck later in the game and it even does not really help fix your mana issues if you have any. Its close to not drawing a card at all. I would at least run a second Forest over it.
Right now I can only recommend running 3 Ooze maindeck. Those are really good against Humans and Hollow One. I don't think you really need 2 Pulses and 2 Terminates maindeck, you can exchange 1 Pulse with the Ooze from the SB.
I would run a second EE or Anger over Golgari Charm right now. I think its too low of an impact. If you fear Bogles, run EE. Its also way better against Humans.
Congratz on the finish! Glad that the creature base I suggested worked for you.
As for Jund Charm, I am not a fan in Jund. I can't really see any big reason why you would end up with 14 cards in the SB and you want your last card to be a sweeper and GY hate, which isn't just worse than Anger of the Gods in that spot. Since you already have 2 Anger, I would honestly just play a stronger GY hate piece like another Spellbomb. I don't think you need 3 sweepers with KCommand and Push as extra removal already in the SB.
Well it depends how much you want to hedge against Tron. I think 2 copies seems like a good start.
I'm not a big fan of Grim Lavamancer, but I still think that Liliana, the last hope already covers the "dark last effect". Community seems split on whether she belongs in the main board or sideboard, so if you need that effect you should try at least one in the main.
Now, If I were to run 15 creatures, 5 planeswalkers and 24 lands, thus having 16 non-creature spells... How would I fill those slots? I love running 12 CMC - 1 spells, but it leaves really little breathing room for more impactful spells such as K command or catch-all like Terminate (I'd love to run at least two due to hollow one).
Either cut a second Fulminator if you think Control is not that present compared to other decks, or
Cut huntmaster or hazoret since one big extra 4 drop could be enough, or
Cut one of the 3 CBs, since you already got 3 sweeper and lavamancer for aggro.
This depends on what you like to cut more.
From my testing, 4 cards to disrupt tron seems to be the sweet spot and gives you the best odds. Of course you could bump that number up, but that might be overkill for what’s already a bad matchup. Less than 4 and I think you have to get really lucky to win with any consistency. I was happy with 2 fulminators + 2 spheres and I think that setup gives the best splash damage against control and storm/other combo. Your mileage may vary of course.
On a separate note, how much hate do you guys think I should have for burn? My only life gain cards post board are 2 brutalities and kalitas, with a push and a kcommand to stem the bleeding along the way. Thoughts?
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
For the overall meta, I like Kalitas right now. But I think I would choose Huntmaster if I had to choose between Hazoret and Huntmaster. Switching a CB for a Finks is a good idea, I would do that yeah.
I like 3 copies of burn hate. Kalitas is not the best though.
I really don't get this sentiment that Tron is still super bad for us now. With Bloodbraid Elf, my win percentage against Tron and EldraziTron has shot up significantly. It's like one of the big reasons that I like Bloodbraid Elf. I still think Damping Sphere in the right metagame will do some work, but I'm not sure it's good enough to be a sideboard "mainstay."
Updated the Link and set it to non expiring, should work now and should also not expire. Thx for letting me know.
I can see BBE, as we have discussed about it quite a bit, but what is your reasoning to think that way about Bob and LoTV?
I know it’s a little greedy to play 4 elves with only 24 lands, but I feel like the way this new jund deck operates is that the rest of the deck is there to stymie your opponents plan, then creatures shut the door. Few cards accomplish that as efficiently as BBE.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
I don't know about you, but when I have the situation of having too many bobs, that means the first one sticks. And everytime a Bob sticks, its just great for me. Especially with BBE being present now, we need to be careful with sticking a second Bob. In matchups where lifetotals matter, I would probably not do it unless I can safely get rid of one or both when needed. But it all depends. However, I personally think that having too many Bobs on the field is not a reason to cut down on Bob.
The discord server should be helpful for on the fly questions or issues, which would be too elaborate to discuss on the forums since discord also works neatly on mobile devices. Its not to replace the forums, but an easier way to keep in touch. I think this could be particularly interesting for discussion between rounds of a tournament or for discussion at FNM where you don't have the time to write sophisticated forum posts.
So, for everyone that didn't join yet, think about it. I personally just want to make sure our Jund community of the forums have the best way to communicate in a constructive way, thats why I made the server in the first place, as it could be really benefitial for everyone.
I totally agree. I actually warped my maindeck a bit by running 2 Kitchen finks in addition to Scavenging oozes so I can rely on Bob even in aggro matchups were I will eventually need to rise my life total. I feel he is still critical to our gameplan, besides being able to seal the deal against control decks.
Even having 2 [card}Tireless tracker[/card] in the sideboard, I very rarely trim the amount of Dark Confidants except against Burn.
I guess I just feel like either the 4th BBE or the 4th bob is my 61st card and I just feel so much more excited to see BBE in my hand than bob a lot of the time. I could be dead wrong though, and I’m very willing to admit that.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
As for last nights tournament, I lost to UW control due to never seeing BBE and poor draws. (Lots of lands but no Ravines.) Won round 2 against Storm. Felt a little bad for my opponent, he thought I was on infect as I was playing that before the tournament started, and both my infect and jund deck are in white sleeves, but I mean, that's what you get for assuming what your opponent is on without being sure. Round 3 I lost to Ponza in 3. This is the round I saw my BBE for the night off a Bob flip which dropped me to 10. I ended up winning that game though. I ultimately lost game 3 because of double Blood Moon. I had an Abrupt Decay in my opening hand which got rid of the T3 Blood Moon, but my opponent had a second moon in opening hand, so he just had to destroy the 2 basics I had managed to get out and then just win eventually. Apparently there is a large amount of Ponza in my meta, and am probably going to need to do something about it. I am thinking running 2 Life from the loam in the board and seeing if that does enough, and then run 2 forests so I can at least keep my basics alive. The other option I was toying with would be Pulse of Murasa, but I don't think that is as effective as I can only cast it 1 time. I am open to any other suggestions though. I think without Tron being in the meta anymore, I can probably cut my Fulminators out of the board to make room for the Life now, and bank on the fact that other people will be running Damping Spheres to keep Tron out. If I end up facing tron I will have to figure something else out though.