Not my list btw. Im not fan of blooming marsh. Against hollowone Im not that high on kcommand either. Mre likely to get killed by fish, hazoret, phoenix and the bloodghasts then the Hollow One itself.
It is true that Hollow One is rarely the killer itself in the matchup and its rather the delve threat in combination with the chip dmg from their recursive threats. But against those lines of play we can somwhat potentially maneuver around, but in those rare cases if they drop 2 Hollow Ones on the play you are instantly dead in my feeling. KCommand can sometimes be an emergency break for that reason. But overall though, sure, its clunky and awkward.
Also in general, I think Hollow One is good against us simply because they make our cards really awkward. LoTV? Potentially really good against delve and Hollow One. But since they also run small recursive threats it can also be just useless. Bolt/Push and Decay are also quite awkward because they won't likely kill something forever. The only really good cards we have are Termiantes/Pulses and discard spells as well as Goyfs/Ooze.
What's the current consensus on Dampening sphere? Seems like it only bothers Tron, Eldrazi and Storm. It may be too narrow but turn-2 Tron hate seems very powerful.
I am wandering how a meta has to look like in order to make me registering such a list. BBE is just the best card in so many matchups. Can't be right to ever run less than 4.
This is similar to a list I'm playing in Milwaukee (playing 1-2 tracker main instead). I'm a believer that BBE is the worst card in the deck in most matches atm. I think Gerry T hit the nail on the head by saying
"Bloodbraid Elf is actively bad against Humans, Hollow One, Tron, Affinity, Burn, Storm, and many other of the top decks in Modern now."
This is similar to a list I'm playing in Milwaukee (playing 1-2 tracker main instead). I'm a believer that BBE is the worst card in the deck in most matches atm. I think Gerry T hit the nail on the head by saying
"Bloodbraid Elf is actively bad against Humans, Hollow One, Tron, Affinity, Burn, Storm, and many other of the top decks in Modern now."
I disagree about that statement. If it were not for BBE, Jund would not be a good deck right now. Against Humans it provides tempo, against Hollow One it can find hard removal or SB cards, against Tron it provides hasty dmg. BBE is definitely not at its best in those matchups, but definitely not the worst card.
I love Gerry T, but he has to be out of his mind to say Bloodbraid Elf is actively bad against most of those decks. The only ones I agree with are Burn and Storm. I'm still not certain about it against Hollow One yet. I know for a fact that Bloodbraid Elf has been a world-class all star for me against Tron and Humans and there are definitely other cards I would board out before touching Elf.
Are there any other cards we're considering for the deck so far? I scanned through and nothing looks amazingly strong for the deck besides Dampening Sphere.
Are there any other cards we're considering for the deck so far? I scanned through and nothing looks amazingly strong for the deck besides Dampening Sphere.
On a raw power level, not really. As the metagame changes, there may be some roleplayers that might pop up though. That's I always take a good look at most of the cards that have an off chance to come in the deck or fit a specific role/niche.
Damping Sphere just reminded me of a card that was essential in sideboards in the Twin/Pod days: Torpor Orb
It’s pretty much only good against Humans (and Faeries, but who cares about that), but it seems actually pretty decent against them. Too narrow? Would we rather just have more removal than it?
If I was expecting a lot of Humans would it be worth including?
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MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Yeah, the more I thought about it the worse it sounded. I’d hate to draw an Orb when I needed to affect the boardstate instead, which is often/always against humans.
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I played it and liked it back then. It temporarily eased my mind against either decks’ combos and let me focus on grinding. Speaking of grinding, it diminished the value of their value cards like Snapcaster Mage and Shriekmaw/EWit/etc. The fact that it was one more angle of hate against both VERY prevalent decks made it worth the inclusion for me. Or at least that’s how I remember it; that was more than a few years ago. Maybe I was just playing bad SB cards
Anyway, regardless, I realize it’s not good against Humans. My line of thought was hasty, and went something like: “Hey, Torpor Orb! That’s a card! Hey, Humans, that’s a prominent deck! Hey, almost all the Humans have ETB’s, that’s applicable!”
And I was reminded of Orb by Sphere as I mentioned, not because I think they do similar things or are equally useful, but because they’re both round, two-mana artifacts. Simple as that.
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Played out the second half of our local league. 16 rounds in total, plus a top 8. The top 8 plays next week. I ended up coming in fourth, my first report was at the 7-0 mark, but in the remaining 9 rounds I went 6-2, plus an additional loss because I couldn't meet my opponent (our schedules never matched) and it was holding up the T8, so I simply conceded since it didn't matter. I don't remember match by match details right now, but I do want to talk again about the discard suite I played.
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
1 Despise
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collected Brutality
This overall felt really good. I've been on something of a crusade against Inquisition because I think it misses too many key cards in too many matchups. I get why people like it and I may have gone a bit too far in moving against it here (perhaps -1 Duress, +1 IoK) but this discard setup had me feeling very favored in most matchups. I had wanted to test if it was possible or reasonable to go down on IoK in a large event, and a 16 round wide open event is a good way to do that. Overall, I would say that particular experiment was a success and I'll use a similar setup in the future.
Im playing in my local GP (GP Hartford) next week and Ill be playing Jund. Iv been reading a ton of material on jund and iv been playing jund forever now but im scared of the Hollow one and human match up. Dose anyone have any tech for one of those match ups?. I see a few higher level players Geery T and Emma Handy saying that BBE is not good for jund but that cant be correct .
I'm not well versed in the hollow one matchup yet but i'll be testing that out a ton this week for the upcoming GP next week. For a good reference on how to approach the humans matchup flyingdelver recommended the reid duke vs tay jun hao pro tour video, it's extremely helpful and i'd also recommend watching it. For tech vs humans, grim lavamancer is absolutely backbreaking for them to deal with, i've seen a turn one lavamancer single handedly beat humans. There's also anger of the gods but the humans deck can play around it to an extent and some new lists are running selfless spirits in the board to combat it. You could also try torpor orb but that just might be too cute for my tastes.
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I could see traverse, I forgot about that card actually.
It is true that Hollow One is rarely the killer itself in the matchup and its rather the delve threat in combination with the chip dmg from their recursive threats. But against those lines of play we can somwhat potentially maneuver around, but in those rare cases if they drop 2 Hollow Ones on the play you are instantly dead in my feeling. KCommand can sometimes be an emergency break for that reason. But overall though, sure, its clunky and awkward.
Also in general, I think Hollow One is good against us simply because they make our cards really awkward. LoTV? Potentially really good against delve and Hollow One. But since they also run small recursive threats it can also be just useless. Bolt/Push and Decay are also quite awkward because they won't likely kill something forever. The only really good cards we have are Termiantes/Pulses and discard spells as well as Goyfs/Ooze.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
This is similar to a list I'm playing in Milwaukee (playing 1-2 tracker main instead). I'm a believer that BBE is the worst card in the deck in most matches atm. I think Gerry T hit the nail on the head by saying
"Bloodbraid Elf is actively bad against Humans, Hollow One, Tron, Affinity, Burn, Storm, and many other of the top decks in Modern now."
Pretty bold statement there, but hey he's the pro so what do I know. Is this from an article on Jund? Mind sharing the link?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I disagree about that statement. If it were not for BBE, Jund would not be a good deck right now. Against Humans it provides tempo, against Hollow One it can find hard removal or SB cards, against Tron it provides hasty dmg. BBE is definitely not at its best in those matchups, but definitely not the worst card.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Twilight Mire
Creatures [15]
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Manacurve is as follows: 12 one drops, 14 two drops, 6 three drops and 4 four drops.
On a raw power level, not really. As the metagame changes, there may be some roleplayers that might pop up though. That's I always take a good look at most of the cards that have an off chance to come in the deck or fit a specific role/niche.
It’s pretty much only good against Humans (and Faeries, but who cares about that), but it seems actually pretty decent against them. Too narrow? Would we rather just have more removal than it?
If I was expecting a lot of Humans would it be worth including?
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Anyway, regardless, I realize it’s not good against Humans. My line of thought was hasty, and went something like: “Hey, Torpor Orb! That’s a card! Hey, Humans, that’s a prominent deck! Hey, almost all the Humans have ETB’s, that’s applicable!”
And I was reminded of Orb by Sphere as I mentioned, not because I think they do similar things or are equally useful, but because they’re both round, two-mana artifacts. Simple as that.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
1 Despise
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collected Brutality
This overall felt really good. I've been on something of a crusade against Inquisition because I think it misses too many key cards in too many matchups. I get why people like it and I may have gone a bit too far in moving against it here (perhaps -1 Duress, +1 IoK) but this discard setup had me feeling very favored in most matchups. I had wanted to test if it was possible or reasonable to go down on IoK in a large event, and a 16 round wide open event is a good way to do that. Overall, I would say that particular experiment was a success and I'll use a similar setup in the future.
I personally think, if you feel IOK misses too much I would just up the TS count and maybe play a 3/3 split.
I am not a fan of maindeck CB, being a CMC2 cost card really downgrades the card as a discard spell which is the slot's purpose imo.