Went 3-1 at a local event today. On Lingering Jund still. Deck felt great. R1 I beat a not great storm player who hadn't played in a while. Round 2 I lost to burn. Matchup felt real bad even with 3 cb and a finks. Game 1 I barely lost to a spell-heavy hand. Game 2 I mulled to 4 and got mutilated. Then I beat BW tokens 2-0. Game 1 was a grind but I won without much trouble. Game 2 I was way behind to 4 souls and a sorin on 6. Then I went BBE into dreadbore and it was GG after that. So dirty. Then I played against jund and mopped it up like the deck s supposed to. He couldn't handle souls and even Ajani Vengeant did work. Here is the list:
// 5 Sorcery
SB: 2 Collective Brutality
SB: 1 Anger of the Gods
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
Honestly, the list felt great. The burn match was pretty unlucky and right now I think it's 70-30 in their favor preboard and like 55-45 in their favor post. But It is winnable. Not much I'd change about the list at the moment and total, I am currently 22-9 with it so I'm pretty happy with an >70% win rate.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: Bant Approach, Grixis Control
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
If I have an artifact (Affinity, Lantern, Tron) and Control heavy meta, is it wrong/excessive to move the Liliana, the Last Hope from the MB to the SB and replace her with a third Kolaghan’s Command in the MB? I’m also considering running 2x Maelstrom Pulse and 1x Dreadbore which worries me about being too slow with all the sorceries. I hoped another instant in K-Command would speed things back up a bit.
Edit: Let me clarify. The Robot, Lantern, Tron, and at least one of the UWx players show up very consistently. There are a wide variety of other decks (including other artifact heavy decks and Control decks) that show up, but I can count on those aforementioned guys to almost always be there.
The results from (what I think is) the first large post-unbannings event isn't that positive: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=36&t[T2]=28&start_date=2018-03-04&end_date=2018-03-04&state=MA&city=Worcester&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks
No Jund in the Top 16. Will be interesting to see what happens at the Dallas Open next weekend. There were 400 players at this event, should be close to 1000 in Dallas.
If I have an artifact (Affinity, Lantern, Tron) and Control heavy meta, is it wrong/excessive to move the Liliana, the Last Hope from the MB to the SB and replace her with a third Kolaghan’s Command in the MB? I’m also considering running 2x Maelstrom Pulse and 1x Dreadbore which worries me about being too slow with all the sorceries. I hoped another instant in K-Command would speed things back up a bit.
Edit: Let me clarify. The Robot, Lantern, Tron, and at least one of the UWx players show up very consistently. There are a wide variety of other decks (including other artifact heavy decks and Control decks) that show up, but I can count on those aforementioned guys to almost always be there.
I wouldn't think it's wrong. Just be careful about trying to shift too much for a local metagame.
Personally, I've already moved Liliana, the Last Hope to the sideboard and have a third Kolaghan's Command in the sideboard as well. It's a bit wild out there right now.
Thanks for the speedy responses, deaddrift and chaos021. I think I really like the idea of it. I just think it gives me a better game-one against decks that I'm going to see fairly often. And it still covers some of the same angles that we want covered by having LtLH MB. I want to be able to do degenerate stuff on my opponent's EoT, and K-Command really fits the bill there.
Engineered Explosives, huh? I mean, the odds of cascading into it are slim, and even then, that's not a bad thing when we're trying to use it for tokens. It's such a powerful card. BBE just makes you look at things differently though. I'll be thinking on that one heavily.
And I agree, Chaos. I don't plan on getting too wild with anything. I value all the grinders and pros and y'all's opinions way more than my own just due to experience differences. It's kind of interesting and honestly a lot of fun right now though since the deck feels almost brand new, the meta is fresh, and everyone's simultaneously trying to get it all figured out. And on top of that add the fact that Jund is deeply customizable and dynamic. I'll tell you, this thread helps out a lot. Hard to overstate that.
Also, to whoever's interested, here's a link to that tournament, just on mtggoldfish. I couldn't get the other one to work. Thank you, esdawt. I'm really interested to see how Dallas goes.
In a 25 land configuration (where I tend to go), how does everyone feel about 3x Raging Ravine, 2x Treetop Village and 4x Blackcleave Cliffs? I love the 5x manlands in total, but wouldn't these tap lands be really awkward after turn 3. Steve Rubin had a configuration like this in the MOCS of last weekend.
I have been thinking about that as well. 4 Blackcleave and 2 Ravine are clear for me. I think about giving a 2/2 split of treetop and ravine a shot or the config you said. Its basically more chance for manasinks if we have a bit more floody draws. They can screw you a bit though, which I am concerned about as well.
Much Tron means more aggressive decks which is again good for us. I am glad there isn't much Scapeshift around as I always felt that it was our hardest matchup.
For example, I had friends tell me me jeskai sees way more play than usual. It was a deck i saw a ton of. I played it twice at the classic. My jeskai friend played like four or five mirrors when he placed top 32
Tron was also out in massive numbers. Although it shrunk as you went higher into the tables.
People at this latest classic said tron was huge.
Modern is a format people play the same deck despite its positioning except for the top names at gps.
It's too expensive to chase the paper tiger deck of the month.
I've spent way too much on modern trying to play top decks but in nearly every major tournament I've played jund. Just too hard to shake that comfort level.
Last year I missed a few top 8 pptqs with e tron, but I got a few top 8s with Abzan and jund.
If I didn't have a wife id go to so many more tournaments.
Outside of grixis shadow, jund honestly feels like the most interactive deck in modern and I love it for that.
People spend way too much time worrying about meta shares. Play your deck and just know your deck better than your opponent. It gives you extra percentage. You also may only see a deck once with a 10 percentage or higher. These tournaments aren't your local metas where 10 people show up and four or five of them are on a ramp deck.
This format has too many decks to worry about. This isn't standard where there's 4 decks and you can meta.
Overpreparing for one or two decks is the worst thing you can do unless it's like eldrazi winter or the summer of dredge and infect.
Modern is a very wide format with a lot of playable decks. It rewards people for knowing how to play their deck, so people tend not to switch. At the last PT, we saw Bogles as a whole wasn't good, but then the next weekend it topped a GP. That's just how Modern works, there are a lot of playable decks, and while some generally stand above the rest, those other decks really aren't that bad.
I do agree with the sentiment not to over-prepare. Unless you're very sure about the expected meta, it's better to keep your deck tuned for an open meta. My LGS weekly gets somewhere between 10 and 45 players (taken over the past few months), so the range of decks is huge. Some people bring the same deck each week, some people bring different decks. But with such a large array of players, it's impossible to predict what you'll play against. At most, I'd say you could probably just make sure you had something for some of the popular matchups, but I wouldn't tune my deck specifically against them.
I remember playing at the F2F Open at GP Toronto 2017. I tuned my GDS list for exactly one matchup: the mirror. I played it three times and crushed it all three times. It happened to be good against BGx as well, which I played against twice surprisingly. My losses ended up both being to GW Value Town decks, which honestly I would never have prepared for. So as a whole, it's honestly typically better to just not worry.
I do agree with the sentiment not to over-prepare.
Well, preparing is never wrong to too, there is no overpreparing in just playing the deck and learning new stuff about. In terms of metagaming, yeah, you can overdo it. But preparing is never too much or wrong
But as Long there is not a huge uptick in boggels i would just ignore them
This has pretty much always been my plan.
The MOCS lists are interesting, they largely seem to be going down to 1 Terminate or Dreadbore in the main. While I can see the reasoning for that, I'm a little concerned about the Eldrazi matchup and Delve creatures as a result of it. My gut reaction would be to add a Maelstrom Pulse to the side to try to balance that out. I think that we're starting to see people settle on a core creature shell with 3 Bolts, with the discard, removal (4th Bolt, Fatal Push, Terminate, Dreadbore, Abrupt Decay), 5th planeswalker, and 25th land being the flexible parts. We're also seeing a lot of people running 4 Fulminator in the side, which I'm a big fan of.
I'm actually beginning to think cutting -1 bolt for the 2nd push is right. 4x bolts is correct in a world where you're the only Jund player, but I don't think we can keep doing this. I judged Mike Sigrist a little when he wasn't playing the playset of bolts but maybe he's right. Apparently he claimed to go 4-1 on MTGO 4 times in a row with another 5-0 soon after. I think Steve Rubin was onto something, too, for the MOC's.
Fulminator being a 4 of only got better with BBE, that's more time to see it against ramp.
I feel like the creature shell is pretty set, with that 3rd Scooze being right.
It seems most of the pros rebuked Reid Duke's decision to run just 4x mainboard discard. Most of them seem to feel 5 is right, with at least 2 thoughtseize in there.
I see the reasoning for the dreadbore and cutting the terminate for push, but I think Hollow One is going to explode. This deck is underplayed guys, it's going to be a real deck in the future. It's power level is absolutely tier 1 and it doesn't just fold to graveyard hate like dredge.
I don't feel great cutting out decay completely.
I almost wonder if cutting the maindeck Last Hope is the right call? She gets clunky.
Nevermind, Mike is on 4x bolts based off his recent article. Outside of his 2x blooming marsh and 2x Surgicals in the side, I would play that exact list, too.
Rubins list intrigues me, too.
Man, no clue what Jund's removal and discard suite should look like.
This is where I'm at with my list. I've had personal success with the 6 discard spells mainboard, along with this removal suite. I did playtest a few tournaments with Dreadbore instead of Terminate and it just didn't live up to expectations, and I play in a very midrange meta.
If I were to recommend a discard+removal suite, it would be this.
EDIT:
Looking for higher "impact" sideboard cards. Having a really hard time against the Grixis Death Shadow matchup. Any suggestions would be appreciated by anyone :3 thanks!
// 60 Maindeck
// 14 Creature
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
// 8 Instant
1 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Abrupt Decay
// 24 Land
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
// 4 Planeswalker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
// 10 Sorcery
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Dreadbore
3 Lingering Souls
1 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
// 5 Creature
SB: 3 Fulminator Mage
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Ajani Vengeant
// 5 Sorcery
SB: 2 Collective Brutality
SB: 1 Anger of the Gods
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
Honestly, the list felt great. The burn match was pretty unlucky and right now I think it's 70-30 in their favor preboard and like 55-45 in their favor post. But It is winnable. Not much I'd change about the list at the moment and total, I am currently 22-9 with it so I'm pretty happy with an >70% win rate.
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
If I have an artifact (Affinity, Lantern, Tron) and Control heavy meta, is it wrong/excessive to move the Liliana, the Last Hope from the MB to the SB and replace her with a third Kolaghan’s Command in the MB? I’m also considering running 2x Maelstrom Pulse and 1x Dreadbore which worries me about being too slow with all the sorceries. I hoped another instant in K-Command would speed things back up a bit.
Edit: Let me clarify. The Robot, Lantern, Tron, and at least one of the UWx players show up very consistently. There are a wide variety of other decks (including other artifact heavy decks and Control decks) that show up, but I can count on those aforementioned guys to almost always be there.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=36&t[T2]=28&start_date=2018-03-04&end_date=2018-03-04&state=MA&city=Worcester&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks
No Jund in the Top 16. Will be interesting to see what happens at the Dallas Open next weekend. There were 400 players at this event, should be close to 1000 in Dallas.
Edit: Mtggoldfish links thanks to Piney_Tinecones: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/scg-modern-classic-worcester-2018-03-04#paper
I wouldn't think it's wrong. Just be careful about trying to shift too much for a local metagame.
Personally, I've already moved Liliana, the Last Hope to the sideboard and have a third Kolaghan's Command in the sideboard as well. It's a bit wild out there right now.
Engineered Explosives, huh? I mean, the odds of cascading into it are slim, and even then, that's not a bad thing when we're trying to use it for tokens. It's such a powerful card. BBE just makes you look at things differently though. I'll be thinking on that one heavily.
And I agree, Chaos. I don't plan on getting too wild with anything. I value all the grinders and pros and y'all's opinions way more than my own just due to experience differences. It's kind of interesting and honestly a lot of fun right now though since the deck feels almost brand new, the meta is fresh, and everyone's simultaneously trying to get it all figured out. And on top of that add the fact that Jund is deeply customizable and dynamic. I'll tell you, this thread helps out a lot. Hard to overstate that.
Also, to whoever's interested, here's a link to that tournament, just on mtggoldfish. I couldn't get the other one to work. Thank you, esdawt. I'm really interested to see how Dallas goes.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
The meta still seems to be pretty diverse, which is good. Unbannings certainly did not harm modern up until now.
I have been thinking about that as well. 4 Blackcleave and 2 Ravine are clear for me. I think about giving a 2/2 split of treetop and ravine a shot or the config you said. Its basically more chance for manasinks if we have a bit more floody draws. They can screw you a bit though, which I am concerned about as well.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
For example, I had friends tell me me jeskai sees way more play than usual. It was a deck i saw a ton of. I played it twice at the classic. My jeskai friend played like four or five mirrors when he placed top 32
Tron was also out in massive numbers. Although it shrunk as you went higher into the tables.
People at this latest classic said tron was huge.
Modern is a format people play the same deck despite its positioning except for the top names at gps.
It's too expensive to chase the paper tiger deck of the month.
I've spent way too much on modern trying to play top decks but in nearly every major tournament I've played jund. Just too hard to shake that comfort level.
Last year I missed a few top 8 pptqs with e tron, but I got a few top 8s with Abzan and jund.
If I didn't have a wife id go to so many more tournaments.
Outside of grixis shadow, jund honestly feels like the most interactive deck in modern and I love it for that.
People spend way too much time worrying about meta shares. Play your deck and just know your deck better than your opponent. It gives you extra percentage. You also may only see a deck once with a 10 percentage or higher. These tournaments aren't your local metas where 10 people show up and four or five of them are on a ramp deck.
This format has too many decks to worry about. This isn't standard where there's 4 decks and you can meta.
Overpreparing for one or two decks is the worst thing you can do unless it's like eldrazi winter or the summer of dredge and infect.
I do agree with the sentiment not to over-prepare. Unless you're very sure about the expected meta, it's better to keep your deck tuned for an open meta. My LGS weekly gets somewhere between 10 and 45 players (taken over the past few months), so the range of decks is huge. Some people bring the same deck each week, some people bring different decks. But with such a large array of players, it's impossible to predict what you'll play against. At most, I'd say you could probably just make sure you had something for some of the popular matchups, but I wouldn't tune my deck specifically against them.
I remember playing at the F2F Open at GP Toronto 2017. I tuned my GDS list for exactly one matchup: the mirror. I played it three times and crushed it all three times. It happened to be good against BGx as well, which I played against twice surprisingly. My losses ended up both being to GW Value Town decks, which honestly I would never have prepared for. So as a whole, it's honestly typically better to just not worry.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
And those cards are worse than EE against Bogles in my opinion
Well, preparing is never wrong to too, there is no overpreparing in just playing the deck and learning new stuff about. In terms of metagaming, yeah, you can overdo it. But preparing is never too much or wrong
Charm is alright.
This has pretty much always been my plan.
The MOCS lists are interesting, they largely seem to be going down to 1 Terminate or Dreadbore in the main. While I can see the reasoning for that, I'm a little concerned about the Eldrazi matchup and Delve creatures as a result of it. My gut reaction would be to add a Maelstrom Pulse to the side to try to balance that out. I think that we're starting to see people settle on a core creature shell with 3 Bolts, with the discard, removal (4th Bolt, Fatal Push, Terminate, Dreadbore, Abrupt Decay), 5th planeswalker, and 25th land being the flexible parts. We're also seeing a lot of people running 4 Fulminator in the side, which I'm a big fan of.
Fulminator being a 4 of only got better with BBE, that's more time to see it against ramp.
I feel like the creature shell is pretty set, with that 3rd Scooze being right.
It seems most of the pros rebuked Reid Duke's decision to run just 4x mainboard discard. Most of them seem to feel 5 is right, with at least 2 thoughtseize in there.
I see the reasoning for the dreadbore and cutting the terminate for push, but I think Hollow One is going to explode. This deck is underplayed guys, it's going to be a real deck in the future. It's power level is absolutely tier 1 and it doesn't just fold to graveyard hate like dredge.
I don't feel great cutting out decay completely.
I almost wonder if cutting the maindeck Last Hope is the right call? She gets clunky.
Rubins list intrigues me, too.
Man, no clue what Jund's removal and discard suite should look like.
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Obstinate Baloth
This is where I'm at with my list. I've had personal success with the 6 discard spells mainboard, along with this removal suite. I did playtest a few tournaments with Dreadbore instead of Terminate and it just didn't live up to expectations, and I play in a very midrange meta.
If I were to recommend a discard+removal suite, it would be this.
EDIT:
Looking for higher "impact" sideboard cards. Having a really hard time against the Grixis Death Shadow matchup. Any suggestions would be appreciated by anyone :3 thanks!