I really don't like these Nihil Spellbombs in the SB. Can we safely change these to Rakdos Charms and maybe even cut an Ancient Grudge? Grafdiggers Cage is great against everything but Living End (I'd like to find space for a second), and Rakdos Charm handles LE pretty well. I think we can afford to hold up BR in that MU, or even use it proactively. I dunno. I'm just really not happy with these spellbombs and I like how the charm is relevant against more decks and also adds a bit of an element of surprise, as well as a possible bluff once you've used it on them once. I'd never side in spellbomb except for against dedicated graveyard decks. I've been hardcore thinking about my sideboard and I've made some changes that I think I can really get on board with, I'm just a little reserved about posting them. They're all tentative changes and I don't want to seem like I'm trying to go against the flow for the sake of going against the flow.
And about the hypothetical Tron infested bubble, personally I would bring my Living End deck and leave Jund at home. I don't enjoy that MU. But if I had to play Jund and I KNEW there was a room full of Tron (not E-Tron, mind you), I would want more Thoughtseize (or, of course, my trusty Despises *wink*), more Ancient Grudge, an Unravel the Aether or Deglamer, some Goblin Rabblemaster, probably a Hazoret the Fervent, and of course all four of my Fulminator Mages. Kolaghan's Command is sweet here to zap an artifact and recur your Fulmies. I'd pretty much want to go aggro as possible while still trying to slow them down enough to make up for the fact that we're not as good at being aggro as a number of decks.
@Spsiegel1987 : I'm playing Pulse of Murasa in SB because it brings back BBE (such as KC or LtLH) and it makes you gain 6 life at instant speed against Burn when they try to finish you at instant speed during end step.
The card is pretty good against deck abusing of FoR too
G1: I was on the draw. He plays a tapped stomping ground and passes. I IOK him to see 4 lands and 2 Molten Rain. Take 1. He passes on 2 lands again. I Goyf on t2. He molten rains me. I play a Bob, attack with Goyf, passes. He runs out of anything meaningful after that, while Bob draws me 4 cards. LOTV rips his hand apart.
G2: He plays a t1 bird which gets pushed. He plays a t2 harsh mentor, and I was thinking how useless it was. T2 I kill it with escalated CB regardless, and discard his Molten Rain. He has 3 lands in hand alongside a Prime Time and a Ruric Thar. With him on 3 lands and 2x 6 drops in hand, I drop 2 bobs for gas. BBE and Bob beats get there.
G1: Not respecting a clock from UW, I was a bit too reckless in shocking myself which eventually did me in. T1 I fetch-shocked into Thoughtseize, taking an Azcanta. T2 I played a second Thoughtseize, taking a Gideon. We play a bit of draw go, answering each other's threats. I manage to stick a Bob. Unfortunately, Bob proceeds to flip me 4 lands in a row and I flood out horribly with no action. He cliques me on my draw step, see a hand full of lands, then attacks with that alongside 2 Snapcasters the following turn after tapping down my Bob with Cryptic. I die with 4 lands in hand, having done around 12ish damage to myself.
G2: This game took like 30 to 40 minutes and was a blur after a while. I cast BBE on both turns 4 and 5. The first cascades a gofy, forcing his T4 Supreme Verdict. The second cascades a Thoughtseize, which he negates. I still get in for 6 damage with my BBE hits. Midgame, I then cast Fulminator Mage twice, blowing up a Colonnade and a Glacial Fortress. Last Hope then rebuys the Fulmin, which blows up a Hallowed Fountain. Eventually, my LOTV ultimates three times this game and I prioritize getting rid of his lands. All-in-all between LOTV and Fulminators, I destroy around 10 of his lands - to the point where my final Fulminator has no nonbasic land left to destroy and goes on beatdown duty. I also run out of fetchable lands, which I discover to my amusement after cracking a verdant catacombs. Frustratingly, I saw no more BBE this game. LOTV won this game with her -6 which kept his hand and lands in check. Had him discard an Elspeth when he was on 5 lands and only had that left in hand. Another star was Treetop village, which gets in for 9 damage until he finally found Spreading Seas. I really enjoy the early pressure from Apeland.
G3: We play it out rather quickly as there was less than 10 minutes. I triple discard him and rip apart his hand, then fulminator his colonnade and manage to stick a Goyf. There was a crucial turn late game when he was on 5 life, with a clique in play and colonnade. Due to a Rest in Peace which I only blew up a few turns prior, my Goyf was a mere 3/4 with land, sorcery and planeswalker in the graveyard. I attack with the 3/4 Goyf and he double blocks with Clique and Colonnade to ensure my Gofy dies, then I blow him open with an Abrupt Decay on the Clique. Instant and Creature enters the graveyard, Goyf grows to 5/6 and kills his colonnade. He untaps, draws and scoops.
I like keeping in Abrupt decay for things like Gideon of the Trials, Detention Sphere, Spreading Seas, Runed Halo, Rest in Peace etc. Abrupt decay does some work against UW. I would have liked to bring in Finks but there isn't enough space.
Match 3 v Naya Burn (2:1 win)
G1: He is on the play. He runs me over with a T1 Nacatl, 3 Lava Spikes, and 1 Bolt.
G2: He casts 2 Rampaging Ferocidons, which was quite spicy but didn't prove much of a problem for Jund. I rip apart his hand with IOK. My goyf grows to a 6/7 and I jund him out.
G3: t1 bolt his swiftspear, t2 iok his boros charm (he doesn't play a second creature), t3 CB escalated once, t4 BBE flips a Finks. He scoops.
I like taking out a LOTV against burn as she's a bit slow, especially on the draw. We typically lose to a top decked burn spell anyway.
Match 4 v Affinity (2:0 win)
G1: He was on the play and plays land, ornithopter, ornithopter, Mox Opal, thoughtcast. I thought I was screwed. I play a blackcleave cliffs and IOK him, seeing 2 lands and an Arcbound. He doesn't have much after that though. I bolt a Steel Overseer and keep his board clear. Eventually I cascade BBE into Dark Confidant, play a Goyf and crash in.
G2: My starting hand was 2 Blackcleave Cliffs, 1 Forest, 1 Ancient Grudge, 1 IOK, 2 Pushes. I kill everything and it was a massacre. I even turned off metalcraft and flashbacked grudge on his Etched Champion on turn 4. Goyf slams it shut.
Sideboarding:
- 1 Dark Confidant, 4 LOTV, 2 Thoughtseize
+ 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Fulminator Mage, 1 Maelstrom Pulse, 1 Anger
Usually I keep 4 Bobs in so I have an endless stream of removal, but had to make space as I felt that the third Fulminator was useful. I've lost to Inkmoth Nexus before after blowing up his board but only having sorcery-speed removal or Abrupt Decay left in hand. Bob can hurt anyway.
For the entire day, I felt good with 24 lands. Only flooded that one game against UW Control and I could almost always cast my spells on time. The 2 RaRa, 1 Treetop split felt fine today and I'll continue to test it. 5 discard spells feel adequate, with 3 more coming in from the board but I didn't really face combo decks today so YMMV. I want to make space for a Lavamancer in the sideboard, but every card seems essential to me, even the 2 Finks as my meta is burn-heavy.
Jund feels really strong now with BBE. The velocity is insane, we just flip a switch and go balls to the wall. Happy junding guys.
Thanks for the input. Don't you feel unsafe boarding only 3 lifegain cards though? CB wrecks burn but from my experience if you don't follow up with a threat to clock them, burn can still recover from a CB. That's why I prioritize Finks as it's a resilient clock and lifegain all at once.
Burn was giving me such a headache that for a short while I even ran 1x Life Goes On, which was surprisingly useful. In this era of BBE, we don't have space for random jank anymore sadly.
Cool! I want to hear the thoughts of the community I would definitely say I'm not the expert. Let say you're in a bubble and you only have to battle tron the entire time. what would be your perfect 60 card deck? Lets assume you're already sidedboarded from the get go.
One should not play Jund in that bubble.
I appreciate your reply. but this doesn't help us and the jund community. if you have some thoughts I would love to hear them.
Well im probably gonna be hated on for a stupid comment, but here I go anyways.
My answer to blood moon infested meta's in the past was to main Goblin guides and pretty much SB into RDW. People who usually play hate cards or typically have a good or great match-up against your deck in my EXP are the people who makes the most mistakes and fall back on bad hands for hate cards. Couple months ago when I finished Living End in time for modern I ran into a elves player who threw a RIP down on turn 2 while having the most smug look I have ever seen only to loose because he assumed I would lose because it's logical right?
Well long story short with Jund being as flexible of a deck as it is you can adjust it for any and all meta's. Yes there are meta's which you should not play classic traditional jund, but by all means play it you can adjust it to be great against a meta. Your Tron only meta idea would mostly adjust the deck to a more Aggro-Midrange IMHO which will lead to things like Goblin Guides, Goblin Rabble Master, BBE, Thundermaw Hellkite, Lighting Bolt, Dreadbore (over terminates), Maelstrom Pulse, and K-commands being maindecked. That's just naming a few things of the top of my head as well. Truthfully I would mostly abandon traditional jund and play something like Jund goblins or even living end.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Matches were:
2-0 CoCo Humans
1-2 GR Tron
1-2 Ponza
0-2 ETron
My list was very top heavy with 10 3-drops and it showed in some match ups. The BBE cascade were amazing though. 24 lands was alright for me, never got screwed or flooded. I did made several punts like playing a wrong fetch in anticipation of Blood Moon. The deck felt okay even against the bad match ups (I almost beat GR Tron by triple Fulminating his Power Plants but can't muster enough pressure) it was mostly me being a bad pilot. It was honestly disappointing. I went home and quickly tried Jund Shadow with BBE, thinking my meta is just hostile to Jund. However I didn't want to give up on Jund that quickly especially that BBE is now free and Modern being more about knowing your deck. So I went to another tournament the next day with a more lower to the ground list
Went 1-2 this time:
1-2 Ponza
1-2 ETron
2-0 Vampire Tribal
Ponza and ETron were the same players who beat me the previous day. I feel that I played more tightly now. Won game 1 taking Moon and beating with Goyf. Game 2, he got stuck on two lands but I have no quick clock and he was able to recover with a Moon and and beat me down. Game 3, I kept a hand with no fetch so I know I'm dead to an early Moon. I bolted two Arbor Elf and played a Goyf. He played a Tracker and pass. On my turn I have 4 lands with Termine LoTV and Bob on hand. I pause for a while, should I play LotV and -2 the Tracker or Terminate the tracker and play Bob? Moon is coming next turn and I don't have a basic so I needed to choose and chose the latter I did. He played Moon and Bob never drew me another basic. He proceeded to slam Hazoret, Stormbreath and P&K and Beast Within my Goyf.
Against ETron, he got me with an early Ulamog game 1. I won game 2 with Mages and BBE into Goyf. Game 3, I have slowed him down with 3 Mages blowing up his temples and Tron piece. However I messed the combat math against a Smasher equipped with Collar. I chumped it with Goyf and Bob and forgot that with Deathtouch and Trample he only needed to assign 1 damage each and 3 to my face. I BBE into Goyf next turn with KCommand and LoTV on hand. He only had 4 lands and I'm far ahead going for the beatdown. He Balista me for 2 bringing me to 1 then topdecked another 1 for the kill.
All in all, the deck was okay. It was just me who sucked. I miss the 6th discard main. I don't get to open with discard as much now. against Ponza, I won the games where I play a discard turn 1. I feel so dejected right now and part of me wanted to switch to Blue Moon and try Jace on my next tourney just to have a better chance against Tron and Moon decks which infest my meta. But knowing me, I'll probably go with Jund again and try to improve as a player. Apologies for the long post and thanks to the Jund family here especially Delver, Spsiegel, Ayiluss etc.
I would encourage you to keep sticking with it. How long have you been playing modern and jund in general? It takes a while to just learn about the format and how to fight it. I think jund players also don't mull aggressively enough. I think people in modern don't mull aggressively enough.
You facing tron and ponza is awful luck. Is this a small store or just unlucky pairings? If you keep getting matched up week in and week out a shadow deck of sort is an option. A few years ago in Texas everyone kept playing rg tron and I still brought jund. I would have lost a ton of practice time with my best deck had I not
If your store is super tiny I can't fault you to meta against them, but if it's bad pairings and you're just losing I definitely recommend powering through it and improving
The nice thing about jund is I rarely feel out of it, like I always had a chance
Okay. So, this might sound crazy, but here is something fun:
I was tinkering and testing with a friend through this afternoon, and we had the idea of attempting a Jund build with 24 lands and running one single "Traverse the Ulvenwald".
The idea behind it: We were a bit torn between 24 or 25 lands (As a lot of people seem to be). 25 seems right when running 4+ 4cc cards, as we need to consistently have 4 lands by turn 4/5 since the likeability of having a 4cc card to drop is very high. But at the same time, 25 lands means more flooding, which was already something common with Jund (And even running manlands, its never a guarantee that we'll have them to mana sink)
So, the idea with Traverse was make it so that running 24 lands + it would mean that if we'd get the Traverse at around turn 5+ we'd already have delirium and thus be able to tutor a Bloodbraid elf or some other powerful/needed creature (Maybe something we've put from SB ? Like a HUntmaster/Fulminator/Hazoret)and if we'd have the Traverse early before that ammount of lands, it'd allow us to make sure we can hit our much needed 4/5 lands for Bloodbraids and Ravines. Now, how consistently can this be achieved?
We played the entire afternoon during what I believe was 15~ ish matches. We played Jund vs. Jeskai Control and later Jund. vs Jund.
My Traverse got used 5 times, and every single one of them it worked.
I would advice you to really look at different matchups as well. You can't really play 2 removal heavy matchups and come to the conclusion that delirium is fine to achieve. Believe me, in different matchups you won't have a creature in the GY that easily, which makes traverse completely matchup dependant and unrealiable. As a goodstuff deck, I personally want to rely on the individual strengths of my cards, and that one doesn't fit the bill. It can be really good, no questions about that, but the downside is incredibly low.
G1: I was on the draw. He plays a tapped stomping ground and passes. I IOK him to see 4 lands and 2 Molten Rain. Take 1. He passes on 2 lands again. I Goyf on t2. He molten rains me. I play a Bob, attack with Goyf, passes. He runs out of anything meaningful after that, while Bob draws me 4 cards. LOTV rips his hand apart.
G2: He plays a t1 bird which gets pushed. He plays a t2 harsh mentor, and I was thinking how useless it was. T2 I kill it with escalated CB regardless, and discard his Molten Rain. He has 3 lands in hand alongside a Prime Time and a Ruric Thar. With him on 3 lands and 2x 6 drops in hand, I drop 2 bobs for gas. BBE and Bob beats get there.
One note, I don't recommend boarding out LoTV against Ponza. She is really good in that matchup, you also experienced it in game 1. You need her to rip their hand apart. I would recommend going for my SB I posted earlier:
Thanks, I do still misplay all the time but am trying to tighten up my ship by taking notes and keeping a log.
On the Ponza matchup:
On second thought I agree with you that K Command should be cut over LotV. My thought process was that double Black will be unwieldy under the threat of Blood Moon. Ponza also tends to go "wide" with dorks and now they run things like P&K as well. But we're looking at LOTV's +1 here to starve their resources. K Command can snag their trinisphere, but it's not something I'm really concerned with given that Goyf would have come down by then, and BBE just doesn't care.
I cut Scooze because of the concerns over green mana as well.
Last Hope is probably a good cut, as you suggested. I was thinking about killing Thopter tokens yet again. Undecided on this.
However, I strongly disagree with cutting the single push. T1 kill their dork is instrumental. T1 murder dork, T2 goyf is the surest key to victory in the matchup IMO. Usually, you won't get to see your third land so gotta ride that Goyf to victory.
On the UW Control matchup:
I am strongly debating cutting only 2 Bolts (instead of 3), and boarding in only 1 CB instead of 2 in its place. My rationale is that Bolt is more useful against Clique and Jace and Jura. I still feel some insecurity cutting too many Bolts as I only have 2 Pulses, 3 Thoughtseize and my BBEs against Jace postboard. Not to mention that a T2 Brutality on the play seeing D Sphere, Seas, Gideon of the Trials, Azcanta etc and not being able to snag them feels rather bad. Am I way off here?
Thanks, I do still misplay all the time but am trying to tighten up my ship by taking notes and keeping a log.
On the Ponza matchup:
On second thought I agree with you that K Command should be cut over LotV. My thought process was that double Black will be unwieldy under the threat of Blood Moon. Ponza also tends to go "wide" with dorks and now they run things like P&K as well. But we're looking at LOTV's +1 here to starve their resources. K Command can snag their trinisphere, but it's not something I'm really concerned with given that Goyf would have come down by then, and BBE just doesn't care.
I cut Scooze because of the concerns over green mana as well.
Last Hope is probably a good cut, as you suggested. I was thinking about killing Thopter tokens yet again. Undecided on this.
However, I strongly disagree with cutting the single push. T1 kill their dork is instrumental. T1 murder dork, T2 goyf is the surest key to victory in the matchup IMO. Usually, you won't get to see your third land so gotta ride that Goyf to victory.
On the UW Control matchup:
I am strongly debating cutting only 2 Bolts (instead of 3), and boarding in only 1 CB instead of 2 in its place. My rationale is that Bolt is more useful against Clique and Jace and Jura. I still feel some insecurity cutting too many Bolts as I only have 2 Pulses, 3 Thoughtseize and my BBEs against Jace postboard. Not to mention that a T2 Brutality on the play seeing D Sphere, Seas, Gideon of the Trials, Azcanta etc and not being able to snag them feels rather bad. Am I way off here?
Thats totally fine, you can cut the Ooze instead of Push!
On the UW Control matchup: If you think you need the 2 bolts then go with it. Bolt is at least not bad. I personally like CB more though. I think its not completely off, but I think, experienced players will play around bolt with Jace if they can. If you start to bolt jace from 5 loyalty or higher down and can still not kill it, you are very behind I think. I personally like CB here more to protect my Goyfs from removal spells or the like.
EDIT: Oh what I just forgot about the Ponza matchup, it is not so sure for me that you side out Ooze over Push here. Aren't they supposed to cut manadorks against us?
EDIT2: Checked it, seems they keep it, since dorks are too important in that deck.
Dude, when BBE was announced I was so happy---and then Jace was also announced, and my excitement deflated
After testing, watching streamers, Hoogland's streams, my FNM, the 1K I was in yesterday, I actually think BBE made blue decks worse. The only blue deck that actually seems equipped to handle BBE right now is Grixis Control. It just got so much worse for them. The other Jund player who got top 8 with me beat Jeskai and Grixis.
I'm really curious if a Jace shell gets cracked. I'm still nervously waiting if disrupting shoal somehow snaps Jace in half, or someone really figures out an amazing shell. As of now---Jace kinda just feels like Nahiri, a decent card, but bad when behind, ok at parity, and oppressive when way ahead.
Wtyy, the bolts aren't awful, they're ok. They're honestly better game 1. Game 2 stripping their hand can be so crippling while protecting your Goyfs and what not. CB can also drain them when you need that last bit of burn.
If you're running 3x Scooze, I think you could cut -1 Scooze, I wouldn't go below 2x Scooze in the blue matchups though
Dude, when BBE was announced I was so happy---and then Jace was also announced, and my excitement deflated
After testing, watching streamers, Hoogland's streams, my FNM, the 1K I was in yesterday, I actually think BBE made blue decks worse. The only blue deck that actually seems equipped to handle BBE right now is Grixis Control. It just got so much worse for them. The other Jund player who got top 8 with me beat Jeskai and Grixis.
I'm really curious if a Jace shell gets cracked. I'm still nervously waiting if disrupting shoal somehow snaps Jace in half, or someone really figures out an amazing shell. As of now---Jace kinda just feels like Nahiri, a decent card, but bad when behind, ok at parity, and oppressive when way ahead.
Funny thing is that most people are playing some kind of Jace deck and fewer ones play BBE
It seems spit. I think there were three BBE Jund players at the 1K I was at? I saw Jeskai, Fairies, Grixis and a few others. But yeah, they got eaten up. Burn is making a huge comeback by the way, be ready for that.
This sorta feels like when everyone was too focused on Grixis Death Shadow while E-Tron got away with too much since it wasn't public enemy #1.
Also, BBE made Abzan so much more winnable. It's still not in our favor, but the matchup felt AWFUL in the past.
I would encourage you to keep sticking with it. How long have you been playing modern and jund in general? It takes a while to just learn about the format and how to fight it. I think jund players also don't mull aggressively enough. I think people in modern don't mull aggressively enough.
You facing tron and ponza is awful luck. Is this a small store or just unlucky pairings? If you keep getting matched up week in and week out a shadow deck of sort is an option. A few years ago in Texas everyone kept playing rg tron and I still brought jund. I would have lost a ton of practice time with my best deck had I not
If your store is super tiny I can't fault you to meta against them, but if it's bad pairings and you're just losing I definitely recommend powering through it and improving
The nice thing about jund is I rarely feel out of it, like I always had a chance
Thanks bro. I bought into Jund after Pro Tour OGW, made some fortunes from those Eye of Ugin and Temples. I also swap my Snaps for Goyfs (got my URx back again). Admittedly, I don't get to play much due to work. Mostly just some play tests with friends and 3-4 FNMs per month. Yes, it's only a small community so the folks I play with are usually the same and they would stick with those decks. For an 8-10 person tourney, it be hard to dodge these guys. If I'm lucky I get to feast on the Elves and Humans players. Good tip in the mulligans, sometimes I settle for mediocre, but keepable hands because I'm afraid to get punished with a worse hand. Need to have more reps with Jund. Thanks again bro and congrats on the top 8!
Never settle for a slow, clunky 7 opener if you know what your opponent is on
You also have to decide if you're on the play or draw. I watched the other Jund player play against Merfolk game 3
He kept a seven on the draw with like 2x Pulses, 1x Last Hope, 3x Land and something else. That should have been a snap mull. On the play that hand is keepable with a turn 1 removal or IOK, I think. On the draw, thats unkeepable outside of a fair midrange deck.
Sometimes you also have to ask yourself on the draw, "This hand is great, can I afford to keep this 1 lander on the draw with 25 lands and a godly hand. Will a 6 or 5 be better than this?
I mulled to 6 against the burn player, the hand had a Goyf, CB, bolt and 1x land. I kept it with the scry and topped an overgrown.
I'm pretty aggressive with mulls. I mulled down to 5 against Dredge at the classic because a typical hand wasn't going to win.
Jund mulls good to decent in comparison to other decks.
And yeah, ALyius, I think Jund needs to do something about burn. BBE is so bad in that matchup, she's always just too slow. It also made searing blaze good against us, it kills everything except Goyf.
I had to fade two burn spells to beat my first opponent, I got quickly 2-0'd against the same burn player twice.
And about the hypothetical Tron infested bubble, personally I would bring my Living End deck and leave Jund at home. I don't enjoy that MU. But if I had to play Jund and I KNEW there was a room full of Tron (not E-Tron, mind you), I would want more Thoughtseize (or, of course, my trusty Despises *wink*), more Ancient Grudge, an Unravel the Aether or Deglamer, some Goblin Rabblemaster, probably a Hazoret the Fervent, and of course all four of my Fulminator Mages. Kolaghan's Command is sweet here to zap an artifact and recur your Fulmies. I'd pretty much want to go aggro as possible while still trying to slow them down enough to make up for the fact that we're not as good at being aggro as a number of decks.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
The card is pretty good against deck abusing of FoR too
Gus
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Twilight Mire
2 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Sorceries (6)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Instants (11)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Gradigger’s Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Anger of the Gods
Match 1 v Ponza (2:0 win)
G1: I was on the draw. He plays a tapped stomping ground and passes. I IOK him to see 4 lands and 2 Molten Rain. Take 1. He passes on 2 lands again. I Goyf on t2. He molten rains me. I play a Bob, attack with Goyf, passes. He runs out of anything meaningful after that, while Bob draws me 4 cards. LOTV rips his hand apart.
G2: He plays a t1 bird which gets pushed. He plays a t2 harsh mentor, and I was thinking how useless it was. T2 I kill it with escalated CB regardless, and discard his Molten Rain. He has 3 lands in hand alongside a Prime Time and a Ruric Thar. With him on 3 lands and 2x 6 drops in hand, I drop 2 bobs for gas. BBE and Bob beats get there.
Sideboarding:
- 3 LOTV, 1 Scooze
+ 1 Anger, 1 Thoughtseize, 2 CB
I just make sure to fetch basics.
Match 2 v UW Control (2:1 win)
This was an exhausting match.
G1: Not respecting a clock from UW, I was a bit too reckless in shocking myself which eventually did me in. T1 I fetch-shocked into Thoughtseize, taking an Azcanta. T2 I played a second Thoughtseize, taking a Gideon. We play a bit of draw go, answering each other's threats. I manage to stick a Bob. Unfortunately, Bob proceeds to flip me 4 lands in a row and I flood out horribly with no action. He cliques me on my draw step, see a hand full of lands, then attacks with that alongside 2 Snapcasters the following turn after tapping down my Bob with Cryptic. I die with 4 lands in hand, having done around 12ish damage to myself.
G2: This game took like 30 to 40 minutes and was a blur after a while. I cast BBE on both turns 4 and 5. The first cascades a gofy, forcing his T4 Supreme Verdict. The second cascades a Thoughtseize, which he negates. I still get in for 6 damage with my BBE hits. Midgame, I then cast Fulminator Mage twice, blowing up a Colonnade and a Glacial Fortress. Last Hope then rebuys the Fulmin, which blows up a Hallowed Fountain. Eventually, my LOTV ultimates three times this game and I prioritize getting rid of his lands. All-in-all between LOTV and Fulminators, I destroy around 10 of his lands - to the point where my final Fulminator has no nonbasic land left to destroy and goes on beatdown duty. I also run out of fetchable lands, which I discover to my amusement after cracking a verdant catacombs. Frustratingly, I saw no more BBE this game. LOTV won this game with her -6 which kept his hand and lands in check. Had him discard an Elspeth when he was on 5 lands and only had that left in hand. Another star was Treetop village, which gets in for 9 damage until he finally found Spreading Seas. I really enjoy the early pressure from Apeland.
G3: We play it out rather quickly as there was less than 10 minutes. I triple discard him and rip apart his hand, then fulminator his colonnade and manage to stick a Goyf. There was a crucial turn late game when he was on 5 life, with a clique in play and colonnade. Due to a Rest in Peace which I only blew up a few turns prior, my Goyf was a mere 3/4 with land, sorcery and planeswalker in the graveyard. I attack with the 3/4 Goyf and he double blocks with Clique and Colonnade to ensure my Gofy dies, then I blow him open with an Abrupt Decay on the Clique. Instant and Creature enters the graveyard, Goyf grows to 5/6 and kills his colonnade. He untaps, draws and scoops.
Sideboarding:
- 3 Lightning Bolt, 2 Terminate, 2 Fatal Push
+ 1 Maelstrom Pulse, 1 Thoughtseize, 2 Collective Brutality, 3 Fulminator Mage
I like keeping in Abrupt decay for things like Gideon of the Trials, Detention Sphere, Spreading Seas, Runed Halo, Rest in Peace etc. Abrupt decay does some work against UW. I would have liked to bring in Finks but there isn't enough space.
Match 3 v Naya Burn (2:1 win)
G1: He is on the play. He runs me over with a T1 Nacatl, 3 Lava Spikes, and 1 Bolt.
G2: He casts 2 Rampaging Ferocidons, which was quite spicy but didn't prove much of a problem for Jund. I rip apart his hand with IOK. My goyf grows to a 6/7 and I jund him out.
G3: t1 bolt his swiftspear, t2 iok his boros charm (he doesn't play a second creature), t3 CB escalated once, t4 BBE flips a Finks. He scoops.
Sideboarding:
- 2 Thoughtseize, 4 Dark Confidant, 1 LOTV, 1 Kolaghan's Command
+ 2 Collective Brutality, 3 Fulminator Mage, 2 Kitchen Finks, 1 Anger
I like taking out a LOTV against burn as she's a bit slow, especially on the draw. We typically lose to a top decked burn spell anyway.
Match 4 v Affinity (2:0 win)
G1: He was on the play and plays land, ornithopter, ornithopter, Mox Opal, thoughtcast. I thought I was screwed. I play a blackcleave cliffs and IOK him, seeing 2 lands and an Arcbound. He doesn't have much after that though. I bolt a Steel Overseer and keep his board clear. Eventually I cascade BBE into Dark Confidant, play a Goyf and crash in.
G2: My starting hand was 2 Blackcleave Cliffs, 1 Forest, 1 Ancient Grudge, 1 IOK, 2 Pushes. I kill everything and it was a massacre. I even turned off metalcraft and flashbacked grudge on his Etched Champion on turn 4. Goyf slams it shut.
Sideboarding:
- 1 Dark Confidant, 4 LOTV, 2 Thoughtseize
+ 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Fulminator Mage, 1 Maelstrom Pulse, 1 Anger
Usually I keep 4 Bobs in so I have an endless stream of removal, but had to make space as I felt that the third Fulminator was useful. I've lost to Inkmoth Nexus before after blowing up his board but only having sorcery-speed removal or Abrupt Decay left in hand. Bob can hurt anyway.
For the entire day, I felt good with 24 lands. Only flooded that one game against UW Control and I could almost always cast my spells on time. The 2 RaRa, 1 Treetop split felt fine today and I'll continue to test it. 5 discard spells feel adequate, with 3 more coming in from the board but I didn't really face combo decks today so YMMV. I want to make space for a Lavamancer in the sideboard, but every card seems essential to me, even the 2 Finks as my meta is burn-heavy.
Jund feels really strong now with BBE. The velocity is insane, we just flip a switch and go balls to the wall. Happy junding guys.
Burn was giving me such a headache that for a short while I even ran 1x Life Goes On, which was surprisingly useful. In this era of BBE, we don't have space for random jank anymore sadly.
Well im probably gonna be hated on for a stupid comment, but here I go anyways.
My answer to blood moon infested meta's in the past was to main Goblin guides and pretty much SB into RDW. People who usually play hate cards or typically have a good or great match-up against your deck in my EXP are the people who makes the most mistakes and fall back on bad hands for hate cards. Couple months ago when I finished Living End in time for modern I ran into a elves player who threw a RIP down on turn 2 while having the most smug look I have ever seen only to loose because he assumed I would lose because it's logical right?
Well long story short with Jund being as flexible of a deck as it is you can adjust it for any and all meta's. Yes there are meta's which you should not play classic traditional jund, but by all means play it you can adjust it to be great against a meta. Your Tron only meta idea would mostly adjust the deck to a more Aggro-Midrange IMHO which will lead to things like Goblin Guides, Goblin Rabble Master, BBE, Thundermaw Hellkite, Lighting Bolt, Dreadbore (over terminates), Maelstrom Pulse, and K-commands being maindecked. That's just naming a few things of the top of my head as well. Truthfully I would mostly abandon traditional jund and play something like Jund goblins or even living end.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I would encourage you to keep sticking with it. How long have you been playing modern and jund in general? It takes a while to just learn about the format and how to fight it. I think jund players also don't mull aggressively enough. I think people in modern don't mull aggressively enough.
You facing tron and ponza is awful luck. Is this a small store or just unlucky pairings? If you keep getting matched up week in and week out a shadow deck of sort is an option. A few years ago in Texas everyone kept playing rg tron and I still brought jund. I would have lost a ton of practice time with my best deck had I not
If your store is super tiny I can't fault you to meta against them, but if it's bad pairings and you're just losing I definitely recommend powering through it and improving
The nice thing about jund is I rarely feel out of it, like I always had a chance
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/13649 - My all foil cube.
I would advice you to really look at different matchups as well. You can't really play 2 removal heavy matchups and come to the conclusion that delirium is fine to achieve. Believe me, in different matchups you won't have a creature in the GY that easily, which makes traverse completely matchup dependant and unrealiable. As a goodstuff deck, I personally want to rely on the individual strengths of my cards, and that one doesn't fit the bill. It can be really good, no questions about that, but the downside is incredibly low.
Congratz on your result!
One note, I don't recommend boarding out LoTV against Ponza. She is really good in that matchup, you also experienced it in game 1. You need her to rip their hand apart. I would recommend going for my SB I posted earlier:
-1 Push
-1 LtLH
-2 KCommand
+2 CB
+1 Pulse
+1 TS
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
No chance for me I would play that over an extra Maelstrom Pulse personally.
On the Ponza matchup:
On second thought I agree with you that K Command should be cut over LotV. My thought process was that double Black will be unwieldy under the threat of Blood Moon. Ponza also tends to go "wide" with dorks and now they run things like P&K as well. But we're looking at LOTV's +1 here to starve their resources. K Command can snag their trinisphere, but it's not something I'm really concerned with given that Goyf would have come down by then, and BBE just doesn't care.
I cut Scooze because of the concerns over green mana as well.
Last Hope is probably a good cut, as you suggested. I was thinking about killing Thopter tokens yet again. Undecided on this.
However, I strongly disagree with cutting the single push. T1 kill their dork is instrumental. T1 murder dork, T2 goyf is the surest key to victory in the matchup IMO. Usually, you won't get to see your third land so gotta ride that Goyf to victory.
On the UW Control matchup:
I am strongly debating cutting only 2 Bolts (instead of 3), and boarding in only 1 CB instead of 2 in its place. My rationale is that Bolt is more useful against Clique and Jace and Jura. I still feel some insecurity cutting too many Bolts as I only have 2 Pulses, 3 Thoughtseize and my BBEs against Jace postboard. Not to mention that a T2 Brutality on the play seeing D Sphere, Seas, Gideon of the Trials, Azcanta etc and not being able to snag them feels rather bad. Am I way off here?
Thats totally fine, you can cut the Ooze instead of Push!
On the UW Control matchup: If you think you need the 2 bolts then go with it. Bolt is at least not bad. I personally like CB more though. I think its not completely off, but I think, experienced players will play around bolt with Jace if they can. If you start to bolt jace from 5 loyalty or higher down and can still not kill it, you are very behind I think. I personally like CB here more to protect my Goyfs from removal spells or the like.
EDIT: Oh what I just forgot about the Ponza matchup, it is not so sure for me that you side out Ooze over Push here. Aren't they supposed to cut manadorks against us?
EDIT2: Checked it, seems they keep it, since dorks are too important in that deck.
After testing, watching streamers, Hoogland's streams, my FNM, the 1K I was in yesterday, I actually think BBE made blue decks worse. The only blue deck that actually seems equipped to handle BBE right now is Grixis Control. It just got so much worse for them. The other Jund player who got top 8 with me beat Jeskai and Grixis.
I'm really curious if a Jace shell gets cracked. I'm still nervously waiting if disrupting shoal somehow snaps Jace in half, or someone really figures out an amazing shell. As of now---Jace kinda just feels like Nahiri, a decent card, but bad when behind, ok at parity, and oppressive when way ahead.
If you're running 3x Scooze, I think you could cut -1 Scooze, I wouldn't go below 2x Scooze in the blue matchups though
Funny thing is that most people are playing some kind of Jace deck and fewer ones play BBE
This sorta feels like when everyone was too focused on Grixis Death Shadow while E-Tron got away with too much since it wasn't public enemy #1.
Also, BBE made Abzan so much more winnable. It's still not in our favor, but the matchup felt AWFUL in the past.
You also have to decide if you're on the play or draw. I watched the other Jund player play against Merfolk game 3
He kept a seven on the draw with like 2x Pulses, 1x Last Hope, 3x Land and something else. That should have been a snap mull. On the play that hand is keepable with a turn 1 removal or IOK, I think. On the draw, thats unkeepable outside of a fair midrange deck.
Sometimes you also have to ask yourself on the draw, "This hand is great, can I afford to keep this 1 lander on the draw with 25 lands and a godly hand. Will a 6 or 5 be better than this?
I mulled to 6 against the burn player, the hand had a Goyf, CB, bolt and 1x land. I kept it with the scry and topped an overgrown.
I'm pretty aggressive with mulls. I mulled down to 5 against Dredge at the classic because a typical hand wasn't going to win.
Jund mulls good to decent in comparison to other decks.
And yeah, ALyius, I think Jund needs to do something about burn. BBE is so bad in that matchup, she's always just too slow. It also made searing blaze good against us, it kills everything except Goyf.
I had to fade two burn spells to beat my first opponent, I got quickly 2-0'd against the same burn player twice.
He said 2 Pulses, not Pushes.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki