Yeah no way that works in an open meta. Maybe he is building the deck also for entertaining purposes, hitting all the good stuff with BBE certainly draws attention.
Finally got to start jamming games, played a bunch on Sunday with a friend on Affinity and Mardu Pyromancer with my own list. Affinity matchup was about the same it's always been, but I got rolled by the Pyromancer deck. My list wasn't well set up for it and I hadn't played the matchup before, so I think we're unfavored the way we've always been against Abzan, but that it's ultimately winnable. That list was 24 lands, and there were a couple games where I wasn't able to double-spell as quickly as I wanted to.
Last night I played a list very close to Reid's, but I swapped an Ooze in the main with one of the sideboard Thoughtseizes and replaced that sideboard slot with a Duress. The list felt fine in midrange games, but it was so slow and clunky against Ponza and U/G Merfolk. I really felt the lack of early game interaction that Jund has historically had and felt very punished for it. The land count felt fine, but hands with more than 1 manland were very challenging to sequence, and that was exacerbated by a lack of early-game impact. I'm going to try going back to 24 lands (dropping Treetop) and swap Liliana, the Last Hope with my sideboard Thoughtseize to go back to 6 discard spells in the main. In general I was very unhappy with my sideboard, but that's not a BBE issue.
BBE was such a blast to play with, I'm really excited to have it back in the format.
I agree about the man lands. I was extremely unhappy when two man lands were in my opener.
Any chance you can post both lists you played or now thinking about?
This change has also Left me unsure how the sideboard should look. 4 discard seems dangerously low though.
My original list i proposed here had 5 discard and used that 25th land slot for a collected brutality instead. That made me feel comfortable to not run thoughtseize in the board.
Our 5-0 list plays 24 lands with 1 mountain, 1 field of ruin(!) and 5 fastlands. 17 black sources.
My maindeck spells are substantially similar to his save for -1 dreadbore -1 scooze, +1 terminate +1 fatal push. And I run 2 RaRa, 1 treetop with 18 black sources.
I do think that the current iterations are very very soft to burn. Coming from my local shop where a third of the playerbase throws Boros Charms around, I absolutely do not feel safe with these lists.
In my modern event tonight, I steamrolled UW Jace Control 2-0. BBE and Treetop village were allstars here, as I can pressure Jace quickly while leaving mana up for Kcommand in the mid game. BBE, BBE, BBE then Kommand snapping back BBE again steamrolled him. I don't feel a need for Thrun in the board.
Noteworthy to state that he Cliqued me on my turn 3, saw a fulminator and instantly sent that to the bottom of my library. Made a remark that it is a nightmare to deal with.
I'm kind of surprised no lists are running 3x k command, that card feels so powerful now. I used to feel very meh about it.
On a last minute meta-call I decided to place LtlH in the SB and leave the 3rd K-Command in the main at a FNM swarming with Burn and Affinity.
I have been very happy with the feel of the deck, 3-1 (winning the mirror and BW Pox as the loss). Mana base is shaky at best (will find place for the 24th land) and SB needs some work, so only posting the MB here.
- Missing 3 blacleave cliffs ATM, painlands have been working great for me so I'd consider trying 3 fastlands to make sure you can have open mana in the 4th turn
- Dreadbore won me a game in the mirror, not sure it belongs to the MB but it is worth considering
- I'd love an extra treetop village but I just need a 2nd Overgrown tomb, maybe i'll try a 2/2 split with Raging Ravine.
Moving foward I think I'll cut an Abrupt Decay for the 2nd Overgrown Tomb and try a 2/2 split bewtween RaRa and T.V. Overall the deck felt just fine and until control emerges in my current meta I'm sorry to say LtlH belongs to my SB.
Our 5-0 list plays 24 lands with 1 mountain, 1 field of ruin(!) and 5 fastlands. 17 black sources.
My maindeck spells are substantially similar to his save for -1 dreadbore -1 scooze, +1 terminate +1 fatal push. And I run 2 RaRa, 1 treetop with 18 black sources.
I do think that the current iterations are very very soft to burn. Coming from my local shop where a third of the playerbase throws Boros Charms around, I absolutely do not feel safe with these lists.
In my modern event tonight, I steamrolled UW Jace Control 2-0. BBE and Treetop village were allstars here, as I can pressure Jace quickly while leaving mana up for Kcommand in the mid game. BBE, BBE, BBE then Kommand snapping back BBE again steamrolled him. I don't feel a need for Thrun in the board.
Noteworthy to state that he Cliqued me on my turn 3, saw a fulminator and instantly sent that to the bottom of my library. Made a remark that it is a nightmare to deal with.
That list from the link runs a manabase I really hate. Why do people really just dismiss basics of deckbuilding and skimp on black sources and play colourless lands in 24 land builds with 4 BBE. That seems not very consistant in the long run.
I'm kind of surprised no lists are running 3x k command, that card feels so powerful now. I used to feel very meh about it.
On a last minute meta-call I decided to place LtlH in the SB and leave the 3rd K-Command in the main at a FNM swarming with Burn and Affinity.
I have been very happy with the feel of the deck, 3-1 (winning the mirror and BW Pox as the loss). Mana base is shaky at best (will find place for the 24th land) and SB needs some work, so only posting the MB here.
- Missing 3 blacleave cliffs ATM, painlands have been working great for me so I'd consider trying 3 fastlands to make sure you can have open mana in the 4th turn
- Dreadbore won me a game in the mirror, not sure it belongs to the MB but it is worth considering
- I'd love an extra treetop village but I just need a 2nd Overgrown tomb, maybe i'll try a 2/2 split with Raging Ravine.
Moving foward I think I'll cut an Abrupt Decay for the 2nd Overgrown Tomb and try a 2/2 split bewtween RaRa and T.V. Overall the deck felt just fine and until control emerges in my current meta I'm sorry to say LtlH belongs to my SB.
Makes sense and the entertainment value would be supreme to slam 7 mana plays on t4-6. It is pretty easy to tell that he may be reacting the the GP Lyon results and thinking that Bogles and Tron are going to get shoved for the next week or two... Either way, I really love the approach Papa Duke is taking.
Damn, guys, I'm so smart, these lists posting results is similar to my original proposed list. Glad these players are realizing 3 GY hate is needed even if I don't agree that it should be leyline.
I would love to play 3 k command main board but I honestly have no clue where maelstrom pulse would fit in the sb. The sideboard feels significantly less flexible than in the past to me, does anyone agree?
We need the cb and finks for aggro. The cb also slot in against control and combo.
Reid has written several times cutting below 3 gy hate means you suffer greatly from those decks
Ancient grudge is kinda non negotiable.
Fulminator isn't a great card but it's decent against ramp, some combo and Grindy decks
The only wiggle room I see is grim lava and last hope, but they really shore up the creature aggro matchups which we are probably in dire need of due to bbe.
Looks like the community is differing with Reid on 4 discard and going with 5. I don't think jund is fast enough to get away with 4.
Oh god no, we definitely don't need 3. I haven't seen anyone adopt that except for Reid. Lantern players and affinity will shrink for the time being, at least until people get tired of the new bbe and jace decks.
This is what I'm looking to try out next week. Current considerations are swapping the Wooded Foothills with a Mountain and the second Lavamancer with a Grafdigger's Cage. My local meta has no decks abusing the graveyard right now, so I'm not worried about going to down to just 2 Spellbombs in the side.
I'm interested in trying a more traditional Jund maindeck, instead of warping it around getting maximum value from BBE with 3-drops. I think it'll make me worse in the mirror game 1, but hopefully a bit better against the field at large.
That way I got my 6 discard spells covered, and got enough removal for smaller creatures decks, which are seing play a ton of right now, we just cant be a value grindy machine at this point. Pulse will be in the SB obviously.
Defish, your list looks fairly reasonable if you're going the route that isn't maxaming bbe. Keep me updated, your list is reasonable and outside of squeezing in another graveyard hate card i would play that list.
Who knows, the meta may end up too fast for fast and aggressive jund builds, they could end up looking like yours.
I can't wait until tournaments take place so we know where the meta is and what jund should look like
I'm running the 4 IoK and 2 Brutality main and the discard has felt fine. The burn match up feels pretty decent without the mb TS. Anger of the Gods has been performing very well for me out of the sb after playing on mtgo the last few days. I'm considering going up to three because of how many matches it's been gg.
I beat As Foretold Living End, Goblins, Grixis control w/Jace, and Burn. I did flood a few times, but it was mitigated by manlands, LotV, and Collective Brutality. And I felt much more confident keeping 2-lander hands. One thing you might have noticed is that I cut the Stomping Ground. Mainly to keep the 2 basic forests plus the treetop village, while maintaining the 19 black sources. I think it worked out really well. There's a lot of ponza in my meta, so I really want those 2 basic forests.
The SB was good. Duress was not very impactful, but it is very versatile and comes in against a lot of matchups. I wanted to try a Thundermaw Hellkite since I was on 25 lands and because the card is awesome, but couldn't find one.
Keep in mind that if you are on 25 lands, you can trim lands postboard! If you are siding out LotVs and are on the draw, I would probably side out a land. Also, I think it's acceptable to shave a BBE or two against decks like affinity to get lower to the ground. You don't want multiples clunking up your hand while you're trying to deploy your spells. If you shave BBEs, I might also shave a land. Especially on the draw.
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I'm going to test the list on mtgo, but honestly I'm doing it for the sake of testing purposes
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
I went with my wife to hibachi last night so I couldn't get to moderns first unbanned fnm.
I still have no clue what the 75 should look like.
I'm kind of surprised no lists are running 3x k command, that card feels so powerful now. I used to feel very meh about it.
I don't know how to leave room for the sideboard with the configuration. Less than 3 gy hate seems loose.
Burn worries me a little too, we now only have 5 1 mana removal. And we run 1 less terminate and 1 less decay. And we went up to 2 more 4 drops.
Last night I played a list very close to Reid's, but I swapped an Ooze in the main with one of the sideboard Thoughtseizes and replaced that sideboard slot with a Duress. The list felt fine in midrange games, but it was so slow and clunky against Ponza and U/G Merfolk. I really felt the lack of early game interaction that Jund has historically had and felt very punished for it. The land count felt fine, but hands with more than 1 manland were very challenging to sequence, and that was exacerbated by a lack of early-game impact. I'm going to try going back to 24 lands (dropping Treetop) and swap Liliana, the Last Hope with my sideboard Thoughtseize to go back to 6 discard spells in the main. In general I was very unhappy with my sideboard, but that's not a BBE issue.
BBE was such a blast to play with, I'm really excited to have it back in the format.
Any chance you can post both lists you played or now thinking about?
This change has also Left me unsure how the sideboard should look. 4 discard seems dangerously low though.
My original list i proposed here had 5 discard and used that 25th land slot for a collected brutality instead. That made me feel comfortable to not run thoughtseize in the board.
Our 5-0 list plays 24 lands with 1 mountain, 1 field of ruin(!) and 5 fastlands. 17 black sources.
My maindeck spells are substantially similar to his save for -1 dreadbore -1 scooze, +1 terminate +1 fatal push. And I run 2 RaRa, 1 treetop with 18 black sources.
I do think that the current iterations are very very soft to burn. Coming from my local shop where a third of the playerbase throws Boros Charms around, I absolutely do not feel safe with these lists.
In my modern event tonight, I steamrolled UW Jace Control 2-0. BBE and Treetop village were allstars here, as I can pressure Jace quickly while leaving mana up for Kcommand in the mid game. BBE, BBE, BBE then Kommand snapping back BBE again steamrolled him. I don't feel a need for Thrun in the board.
Noteworthy to state that he Cliqued me on my turn 3, saw a fulminator and instantly sent that to the bottom of my library. Made a remark that it is a nightmare to deal with.
On a last minute meta-call I decided to place LtlH in the SB and leave the 3rd K-Command in the main at a FNM swarming with Burn and Affinity.
I have been very happy with the feel of the deck, 3-1 (winning the mirror and BW Pox as the loss). Mana base is shaky at best (will find place for the 24th land) and SB needs some work, so only posting the MB here.
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Lightning bolt
1 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Blackcleave cliffs
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Sulfurous Springs
3 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
Some notes:
- Missing 3 blacleave cliffs ATM, painlands have been working great for me so I'd consider trying 3 fastlands to make sure you can have open mana in the 4th turn
- Dreadbore won me a game in the mirror, not sure it belongs to the MB but it is worth considering
- I'd love an extra treetop village but I just need a 2nd Overgrown tomb, maybe i'll try a 2/2 split with Raging Ravine.
Moving foward I think I'll cut an Abrupt Decay for the 2nd Overgrown Tomb and try a 2/2 split bewtween RaRa and T.V. Overall the deck felt just fine and until control emerges in my current meta I'm sorry to say LtlH belongs to my SB.
BTW, I beat burn on a very close game with 2 kitchen finks, 1 collective brutality and 1 feed the clan in the side.
Feedback is appreciated!
That list from the link runs a manabase I really hate. Why do people really just dismiss basics of deckbuilding and skimp on black sources and play colourless lands in 24 land builds with 4 BBE. That seems not very consistant in the long run.
Obviously the manabase is far from optimal, as you stated yourself. However, at least run 24 lands if anything.
I think less than 4 Bolts is a mistake. Also 3 KCommand is too much imo. But the rest looks good.
I would love to play 3 k command main board but I honestly have no clue where maelstrom pulse would fit in the sb. The sideboard feels significantly less flexible than in the past to me, does anyone agree?
We need the cb and finks for aggro. The cb also slot in against control and combo.
Reid has written several times cutting below 3 gy hate means you suffer greatly from those decks
Ancient grudge is kinda non negotiable.
Fulminator isn't a great card but it's decent against ramp, some combo and Grindy decks
The only wiggle room I see is grim lava and last hope, but they really shore up the creature aggro matchups which we are probably in dire need of due to bbe.
Looks like the community is differing with Reid on 4 discard and going with 5. I don't think jund is fast enough to get away with 4.
This was "my" list:
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (11)
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (7)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
3x Fulminator Mage
1 maelstrom pulse
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1 grafdigger's cage
1 duress
2x Nihil Spellbomb
This was my "Reid style" list:
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
1 Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1 treetop village
1x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
Instant (11)
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Sorcery (7)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Thoughtseize
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
1 Duress
3x Fulminator Mage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thoughtseize
This is what I'm looking to try out next week. Current considerations are swapping the Wooded Foothills with a Mountain and the second Lavamancer with a Grafdigger's Cage. My local meta has no decks abusing the graveyard right now, so I'm not worried about going to down to just 2 Spellbombs in the side.
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (11)
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (7)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Nihil Spellbomb
I'm interested in trying a more traditional Jund maindeck, instead of warping it around getting maximum value from BBE with 3-drops. I think it'll make me worse in the mirror game 1, but hopefully a bit better against the field at large.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Twilight Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Noncreature Spells [22]
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Kolaghan's Command
That way I got my 6 discard spells covered, and got enough removal for smaller creatures decks, which are seing play a ton of right now, we just cant be a value grindy machine at this point. Pulse will be in the SB obviously.
Who knows, the meta may end up too fast for fast and aggressive jund builds, they could end up looking like yours.
I can't wait until tournaments take place so we know where the meta is and what jund should look like
BRGLiving EndBRG
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
21 Spells:
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
1 maelstrom Pulse
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Blackcleave CLiffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Twilight mire
2 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kitchen Finks
1 maelstrom Pulse
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Duress
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer
I beat As Foretold Living End, Goblins, Grixis control w/Jace, and Burn. I did flood a few times, but it was mitigated by manlands, LotV, and Collective Brutality. And I felt much more confident keeping 2-lander hands. One thing you might have noticed is that I cut the Stomping Ground. Mainly to keep the 2 basic forests plus the treetop village, while maintaining the 19 black sources. I think it worked out really well. There's a lot of ponza in my meta, so I really want those 2 basic forests.
The SB was good. Duress was not very impactful, but it is very versatile and comes in against a lot of matchups. I wanted to try a Thundermaw Hellkite since I was on 25 lands and because the card is awesome, but couldn't find one.
Keep in mind that if you are on 25 lands, you can trim lands postboard! If you are siding out LotVs and are on the draw, I would probably side out a land. Also, I think it's acceptable to shave a BBE or two against decks like affinity to get lower to the ground. You don't want multiples clunking up your hand while you're trying to deploy your spells. If you shave BBEs, I might also shave a land. Especially on the draw.