Spellbomb, man. I get the feeling it'll pray harder on GY decks
Tested in the MTGO practice room tonight, won all but 1 match against Hollow One. He had a turn 1 Hollow one game 2 and 3. Had a bunch of people quit on me after they lost game 1 against me, so some of that wasn't conclusive. Managed to beat elves, was worried BBE Jund wouldn't have enough removal.
I tested almost an exact 75 list to Reids, the only mainboard difference was playing -1 Scooze for the 5th discard. 4 just seems dangerously low. Blooming Marsh is awful and I replaced it with a fetchland.
I felt flooded a lot at 25 lands, I also didn't like treetop clunking my openers.
If the Jund community decides on 25 lands I'll give into it, but 24 felt better.
Just ended up 9th place out of 133 people in the Saturday Modern Challenge on MTGO today. 6-2 overall. Threw away at least one game on a pretty loose mulligan decision, so falling just a bit short is kind of sad, but it is what it is.
My wins were against a guy who got disconnected and timed out, an As Foretold/Taking Turns deck that made top 8, some kind of 5c Saheeli/Felidar/value cards deck (playing Jace and BBE!), Bogles, Jund mirror, Burn
My losses were against Grixis Shadow and 5c Humans. Both of those are good matchups but it happens. The Humans loss in particular stings because that loss was clearly my fault, made some punts.
I think Fatal Push is too efficient against the aggressive decks to cut, but otherwise I want my removal to be pretty universal. I have no idea about Terminate over other options, but I wanted another instant speed card against big creatures. The one Terminate is definitely the worst card.
Grim Lavamancer and Treetop Village are awesome. IoK is amazing against nearly every deck and playing less than 4 is crazy. Raging Ravine is not nearly as good as it used to be. Jace is not very good against this deck, we have so many ways to pressure it. I'm pretty sure Dreadbore is wrong.
25 land was good, don't really want to cut one. There's no other 60th card I want badly in the maindeck.
Did you ever think that you missed the 1 abrupt decay? The main deck that I want to run is similar to yours except I have -1 TS +1 abrupt decay in the main. I also initially had 1 pulse main and 1 pulse side but I'm interested in the idea of having two pulse mainboard since I feel like I'm gonna side it in often. Do you think it's too clunky though?
But you also advocated for 24 lands when Goblin Rabblemasters were in Jund----and I thought that was completely wrong, between my results and play and everyone else's time with that version of the deck.
If after testing Reid says play 25 lands, I'm playing 25 lands. Everytime I've disliked his decision, I always realized after stubbornly trying something else that he's right
Its funny you say those two things, because Reid Duke never played 23 lands in his Jund video or article despite Rabblemaster, always 24 lands like I advocated.
I guess if you dont know if they play gideon jura, i would just cut terminate.
I think its ok to cut both terminate and push. We used to cut all push in the past and brought in all fulminators. I am more interested to bring in discard than spellbomb. Also am more interested in discard than finks due to path.
I am gonna predict that jeskai tempo wont be good in the future so the decks which will see play are jeskai control, uw controm and prob grixis control.
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
I guess if you dont know if they play gideon jura, i would just cut terminate.
I think its ok to cut both terminate and push. We used to cut all push in the past and brought in all fulminators. I am more interested to bring in discard than spellbomb. Also am more interested in discard than finks due to path.
Actually you can know if they run Gideon Jura, because they will also run the 3 Mana one. To be Clear I would leave in One (of two) Terminates instead of 1 Push. I am only suggesting that if you would Leave in 1 Push (wich i would), leave in Termiante instead if they are UW.
Discard has the Dead Topdeck Problem, but it is close. Agiasnt Jeskai I bring Finks, against UW I bring Collective Brutality. I Statet above that i would bring in Thoughtsieze and Duress for IoK any time, since they can get the problem cards.
Well if they dont play either gideons in g1, you cant know i guess.
Also does running the 3 mana gideon automatically include running the gideon jura one?
I think, and that also aligns with reids opinion, liliana of the veil, discard and fulminator are the key to the matchup. That way you grind them out of resources and can win with a goyf or manland. Thats why i would bring discard in over spellbomb anytime. But it may be preference.
If boarding out Bolt turns out to be wrong, I can see boarding out KCommand actually.
Thanks for the response. I think I was overthinking it and need to not focus so much on the bolts, your sideboard is usually what I would have done in the past
Outside of that 25th land we don't agree on i really like your 75, mine looks very similar
I think 3x grave hate is the right thing, as much as I wish I could cut them
One caveat could be his thoughts before the conclusion. "One last rule on the way out the door: if you are ever on the fence as far as the number of lands you should play, you'll have more success if you play one land too many than one land too few. As such, if you are trying to decide between one final cool spell and one more land, pick the land—it will pay off in the long run!"
I watched the entire video, Hoogland did conclude 25 lands is the right call, and emphasized playing that much land
Can anyone bring themselves to play just 4 main deck discard? That truly horrifies me. I'd rather cut the third copy of Ooze and play the thoughtseize.
One caveat could be his thoughts before the conclusion. "One last rule on the way out the door: if you are ever on the fence as far as the number of lands you should play, you'll have more success if you play one land too many than one land too few. As such, if you are trying to decide between one final cool spell and one more land, pick the land—it will pay off in the long run!"
Tested in the MTGO practice room tonight, won all but 1 match against Hollow One. He had a turn 1 Hollow one game 2 and 3. Had a bunch of people quit on me after they lost game 1 against me, so some of that wasn't conclusive. Managed to beat elves, was worried BBE Jund wouldn't have enough removal.
I tested almost an exact 75 list to Reids, the only mainboard difference was playing -1 Scooze for the 5th discard. 4 just seems dangerously low. Blooming Marsh is awful and I replaced it with a fetchland.
I felt flooded a lot at 25 lands, I also didn't like treetop clunking my openers.
If the Jund community decides on 25 lands I'll give into it, but 24 felt better.
What does the sideboard plan look like against blue decks? I almost don't have room to play Finks against blue decks
I know I want
-1 push, -2 terminate for +3 fulminators.
Id like to find room for 2 CBs and 2 Finks but I have no clue where. Oh, and the 1x thoughtseize in the side
Did you ever think that you missed the 1 abrupt decay? The main deck that I want to run is similar to yours except I have -1 TS +1 abrupt decay in the main. I also initially had 1 pulse main and 1 pulse side but I'm interested in the idea of having two pulse mainboard since I feel like I'm gonna side it in often. Do you think it's too clunky though?
Its funny you say those two things, because Reid Duke never played 23 lands in his Jund video or article despite Rabblemaster, always 24 lands like I advocated.
I think its ok to cut both terminate and push. We used to cut all push in the past and brought in all fulminators. I am more interested to bring in discard than spellbomb. Also am more interested in discard than finks due to path.
What?
Well if they dont play either gideons in g1, you cant know i guess.
Also does running the 3 mana gideon automatically include running the gideon jura one?
I think, and that also aligns with reids opinion, liliana of the veil, discard and fulminator are the key to the matchup. That way you grind them out of resources and can win with a goyf or manland. Thats why i would bring discard in over spellbomb anytime. But it may be preference.
Really? The debating is nice. No one is name calling
Also, was watching hoogland on jund. Such fun games. Did anyone feel like he was flooding out a lot though?
Hoogland sided out bolt against uw. I wonder if we should just do that and proceed as we normally did.
March 10th is the next modern event, I hope Reid or someone huge comes up with another jund list for a consensus in an article this week
Like for example against Jeskai Control, I would board like the following:
-1 Push
-1 Decay
-2 Terminate
-3 Bolt
+3 Fulminator
+1 TS
+1 Finks
+2 CB
(maybe even cut all bolts to bring in the extra Lili)
against UW Control (lets say without Gideon)
-1 Push
-2 Terminate
-3 Bolt
+3 Fulminator
+1 TS
+2 CB
if they have Gideon I would cut only 1 Terminate and leave out the second CB or so.
This is my list for reference:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
1 Treetop Village
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creatures [14]
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Thoughtseize
If boarding out Bolt turns out to be wrong, I can see boarding out KCommand actually.
Thanks for the response. I think I was overthinking it and need to not focus so much on the bolts, your sideboard is usually what I would have done in the past
Outside of that 25th land we don't agree on i really like your 75, mine looks very similar
I think 3x grave hate is the right thing, as much as I wish I could cut them
We only get our creatures back from the boardwipes. Who knows. When the pros start posting video articles I'll see what they're doing.
Even though it's been scary cutting removal jund has been eeking fine.
I'm surprised to say this, but bbe may actually be more powerful in modern
Let's see if people like Ben nikovolitch break jace
Therefore i dont like that article all that much and trust frank karsten more personally.
Can anyone bring themselves to play just 4 main deck discard? That truly horrifies me. I'd rather cut the third copy of Ooze and play the thoughtseize.
Truthfully? BBE feels like enough now. I haven't been missing Thrun much at all. BBE just oozes value in so many matchups.
I agree!