I give this approach a try, I am curious if its greedy concerning the landcount. Basically it has a high amount of 3 drops and all 4 BBE. I dont know how greedy that is atm with 24 lands only.
I haven't been struggling with mana at all. I've been flooded more if anything. Bbe actually mitagatea some of that flood.
I can't believe how much burn I'm hitting for. It's getting me across the finish line. It also feels like I'm playing with more creatures thanks to k command loops
I haven't been struggling with mana at all. I've been flooded more if anything. Bbe actually mitagatea some of that flood.
Agreed. Did not even realize until played some games that how much BBE fixes your flooding and bad top decks too! Even if you "miss" with your Cascade (hit discard when opp has no cards etc), atleast you are not drawing that useless card next turn!
BBE is gonna put Jund sooo far ahead of other BGx decks.
Hello fellow Gbx players. I am an Abzan veteran but I don't have the jund pieces.
Jund is a power house now (I've been testing it at online platforms and it even beats the mirrors with abzan)
I just made titanshift so I won't be hoping in the Jund train for 3-4 months at least...
Do you think it is worth it to save up?
Hello fellow Gbx players. I am an Abzan veteran but I don't have the jund pieces.
Jund is a power house now (I've been testing it at online platforms and it even beats the mirrors with abzan)
I just made titanshift so I won't be hoping in the Jund train for 3-4 months at least...
Do you think it is worth it to save up?
Yeah bro. It's honestly good to be flexible and own Abzan and jund. I find it foolish when gbx players refuse to play the other version.
I own every major staple and own all rj3 highly played wide board staples
Yeah bro. It's honestly good to be flexible and own Abzan and jund. I find it foolish when gbx players refuse to play the other version.
I own every major staple and own all rj3 highly played wide board staples
I think GBx players need a "Jund Box" so to speak of all the staples between the variants depending on the meta.
I hoping to make it to my LGS on Monday and Cascade into K-Commands and all the good stuff!
Anyway, If i have a liliana of the veil on the field and opponent have a creature, should I cast BBE 1st or should I activate lily veil ability 1st? And should I + or - her? We are running 4 lily veil, there is definitely a chance of cascading into another lily veil while there’s also a chance of hitting a removal too, so I’m not sure.. which should be the correct play? Because of this, I’m thinking of dropping lily veil to 3 and MD 2 lily last hope, opening a slot in the side for maybe a singleton Grim Lavamancer or 2nd Kitchen Finks.
And what do everyone think what the metagame will be like? with jtms unban, I’m expecting there’s going to be a lot of uw miracle and grixis control with so many trying to break modern with jtms.. at least for the next month or so? After that maybe there might even be jeskai miracle or even esper control emerging? That’s my guess..
Anyway, If i have a liliana of the veil on the field and opponent have a creature, should I cast BBE 1st or should I activate lily veil ability 1st? And should I + or - her? We are running 4 lily veil, there is definitely a chance of cascading into another lily veil while there’s also a chance of hitting a removal too, so I’m not sure.. which should be the correct play? Because of this, I’m thinking of dropping lily veil to 3 and MD 2 lily last hope, opening a slot in the side for maybe a singleton Grim Lavamancer or 2nd Kitchen Finks.
And what do everyone think what the metagame will be like? with jtms unban, I’m expecting there’s going to be a lot of uw miracle and grixis control with so many trying to break modern with jtms.. at least for the next month or so? After that maybe there might even be jeskai miracle or even esper control emerging? That’s my guess..
It depends which creature it is and also if you can dump a card if you + the Lili. Ofc it would be best to activate Lili first. Do it if you can. There is definitely not a rule to follow as it completely depends on the situation, but generally, if you want max value out of your cascade, then activating Lili first makes sense.
Yeah loads of control. Afterwards combo decks and aggro decks praying on control. Then maybe us having a good time.
I am missing 2 commands, 4 cliffs, 4 raging ravines, some elves, the lavaman and a blood crypt. I guess ( I also have to buy a 4th bob and a Lily of the Veil or I can get away with 3?)
Call me controversial but I'm still going to be running a 4/2 split of inquisition and thoughtseize.
I feel like people are overreacting a little bit to having a new tool in their deck and are warping their lists a bit above expectations just to appease the new card.
That said, k-command seems better now than ever before. Big fan of 2 or even 3 of these.
I also feel like fatal push should be a 2-of maybe. That's more tricky but only one seems low to me.
Two maelstrom pulse is pretty good but I'm gonna run a 1/1 split between pulse and abrupt decay. The uncounterable and instant is very valuable.
Otherwise I see most people are in more or less the same place which is cool. Jund life
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I am missing 2 commands, 4 cliffs, 4 raging ravines, some elves, the lavaman and a blood crypt. I guess ( I also have to buy a 4th bob and a Lily of the Veil or I can get away with 3?)
How good LotV will be depends a lot on the meta you're playing in. LotV is bad against swarm decks (Affinity ++), dredge, and bad against lingering souls, recurring creatures like Kitchen Finks/Voice of Resurgence, Blood Ghast, Flamewake Phoenix etc. LotV is generally good against most control and combo decks, and good against decks with few but powerful and non-recurring creatures. Most jund-players prefer 4 maindeck LotV, but some jund-players have had great success with 3 LotV. Examples - Keita Kawasaki, who top 8'ed Grand Prix Guangzhou 2016 with 3 LotV, Vidianto Wijaya in Grand Prix Los Angeles 2016, and Andrew Huska who 2nd placed Grand Prix Minneapolis 2014. The 3-drop spot in Jund have been getting more competition over the years, with Kol. Command printed in 2015 and LotLH in 2016 to compete with LotV. I can also mention Ben Friedman's controversial new BBE-list with no LotV and 2 goyf: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36629_The-End-Of-Moderns-Golden-Age.html I don't think his list looks good, but it demonstrates that there are different opinions of these things.
I am missing 2 commands, 4 cliffs, 4 raging ravines, some elves, the lavaman and a blood crypt. I guess ( I also have to buy a 4th bob and a Lily of the Veil or I can get away with 3?)
How good LotV will be depends a lot on the meta you're playing in. LotV is bad against swarm decks (Affinity ++), dredge, and bad against lingering souls, recurring creatures like Kitchen Finks/Voice of Resurgence, Blood Ghast, Flamewake Phoenix etc. LotV is generally good against most control and combo decks, and good against decks with few but powerful and non-recurring creatures. Most jund-players prefer 4 maindeck LotV, but some jund-players have had great success with 3 LotV. Examples - Keita Kawasaki, who top 8'ed Grand Prix Guangzhou 2016 with 3 LotV, Vidianto Wijaya in Grand Prix Los Angeles 2016, and Andrew Huska who 2nd placed Grand Prix Minneapolis 2014. The 3-drop spot in Jund have been getting more competition over the years, with Kol. Command printed in 2015 and LotLH in 2016 to compete with LotV. I can also mention Ben Friedman's controversial new BBE-list with no LotV and 2 goyf: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36629_The-End-Of-Moderns-Golden-Age.html I don't think his list looks good, but it demonstrates that there are different opinions of these things.
No disrespect, but the question for me is how viable some opinions are. Some more than others I would say (concerning Friedmans approach).
Call me controversial but I'm still going to be running a 4/2 split of inquisition and thoughtseize.
Me too. Like master Duke said, who also posted a list with 4 inquisitions, i dont wanna give up too much on my aggro matchups.
Especially now that bobs will be hitting harder
4/2 inquisition/seize was the original accepted decent amount of discard before shadow became the new kid on the block. For the moment I'm going to rock those 2 thoughtseize in order to not just insta-lose to bigger decks.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
LotV is NOT bad vs Affinity. In fact, she's usually the only way to prevent Etched Champion from running away with the game.
I respectfully disagree. My experience has shown that actually the most common way to handle an Etched Champion is IOK. Liliana is useless most of the time, and good Affinity players will play around that 100 % if they can. It would take multiple removal spells alongside enough mana and LoTV to kill an Champion on board. The best way to kill a champion on board is Damnation no questions asked.
That being said, It is usually ok to leave in 1-2 LoTV if you don't have enough TS to board out. I personally like to leave in 3-4 IOK after SB to deal with Champions. It is also not the first Champion thats bothering me, its the second, or an unanswered Plating attached to it which gets us sometimes.
LotV is NOT bad vs Affinity. In fact, she's usually the only way to prevent Etched Champion from running away with the game.
The affinity player sacrificing Champion to LotV is not a very common scenario, as he most often have other weenies he can sacrifice, or he can activate a blinkmoth/Inkmoth to sacrifice. LotV can work against affinity sometimes, though, especially if they have a slow hand.
According to Reid Duke's sideboard guide from june all 4 LotV comes out against Affinity: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-jund-deck-guide/
LotV is NOT bad vs Affinity. In fact, she's usually the only way to prevent Etched Champion from running away with the game.
The affinity player sacrificing Champion to LotV is not a very common scenario, as he most often have other weenies he can sacrifice, or he can activate a blinkmoth/Inkmoth to sacrifice. LotV can work against affinity sometimes, though, especially if they have a slow hand.
According to Reid Duke's sideboard guide from june all 4 LotV comes out against Affinity: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-jund-deck-guide/
Liliana is interesting for sure. Last hope is eminently better in this matchup and liliana is always quite decent at capitalising on a poor start from an opponent buy she's not at her best here. For starters her discard ability will be mostly useless.
You're better off slimming down your mana curve and bringing in replacements such as ancient grudge. Liliana will only be the slightest of roadblocks to an affinity deck and in some instances will make barely any difference to their actual clock.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Call me controversial but I'm still going to be running a 4/2 split of inquisition and thoughtseize.
I feel like people are overreacting a little bit to having a new tool in their deck and are warping their lists a bit above expectations just to appease the new card.
That said, k-command seems better now than ever before. Big fan of 2 or even 3 of these.
I also feel like fatal push should be a 2-of maybe. That's more tricky but only one seems low to me.
Two maelstrom pulse is pretty good but I'm gonna run a 1/1 split between pulse and abrupt decay. The uncounterable and instant is very valuable.
Otherwise I see most people are in more or less the same place which is cool. Jund life
People aren't overreacting, if you've read Jadine, Reid and Friedmans articles, they're advocating for Jund to change. They were well written and thought out.
This isn't a 4 drop that we can just slot in and call it a day.
Jund has always been a 1 for 1 deck---BBE now really changes this. K-Command, while good, never used this card as well as Shadow or Grixis Control, until now. The K-Command loops with BBE is very much a real thing.
Everyone is becoming too attached to cutting a little removal. Take a look at older lists, they weren't overloaded with removal. This aggression gives Jund a little less of that "oops, drew the wrong half of the deck" syndrome.
We aren't "warping" our decks...this is a part of deck building. If you have a bunch of awful cascades targets, it means your deck isn't well built. Jund can't 100% overhaul everything, but it can minimize it.
Think of it like Living End---if they had a bunch of cascade targets that didn't go into Living End, would you consider that good deck building?
As for you guys playing 4x LOTV, 2 Last Hope, 3x K-Command, you guys are overdoing it, that's too many 3 drops.
Come on, guys. No to Jadelight Ranger. We aren't looking to play 4/3 vanilla bears. Thats 3 mana.
As for Affinity, On the draw, you side out 3 to 4 copies of LOTV. On the play, you can keep 1 to 2 LOTV.
You keep in all IOK to deal with Affinity and shave the rest of the discard.
Also, if you don't want to run 3 Seize/2 IOK, reverse it and go 3 IOK/2 Seize. I've always been a 4/2 split, and rarely went 3/3. I do think Jace changes this now, but if burn or aggro arises I can absolutely agree with you guys.
I love Reid put playing no thoughtseizes in the main is an awful, awful idea.
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I can't believe how much burn I'm hitting for. It's getting me across the finish line. It also feels like I'm playing with more creatures thanks to k command loops
Agreed. Did not even realize until played some games that how much BBE fixes your flooding and bad top decks too! Even if you "miss" with your Cascade (hit discard when opp has no cards etc), atleast you are not drawing that useless card next turn!
BBE is gonna put Jund sooo far ahead of other BGx decks.
Sure, now more than ever befeore in a long time.
Yeah bro. It's honestly good to be flexible and own Abzan and jund. I find it foolish when gbx players refuse to play the other version.
I own every major staple and own all rj3 highly played wide board staples
I think GBx players need a "Jund Box" so to speak of all the staples between the variants depending on the meta.
I hoping to make it to my LGS on Monday and Cascade into K-Commands and all the good stuff!
BG/x BG
Creature [14]
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker [5]
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Instant [10]
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
3x Kolaghan’s Command
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Terminate
Sorcery [7]
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
1x Forest
2x Swamp
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
1x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Kitchen Finks
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
I’m probably going to try something like this..
Anyway, If i have a liliana of the veil on the field and opponent have a creature, should I cast BBE 1st or should I activate lily veil ability 1st? And should I + or - her? We are running 4 lily veil, there is definitely a chance of cascading into another lily veil while there’s also a chance of hitting a removal too, so I’m not sure.. which should be the correct play? Because of this, I’m thinking of dropping lily veil to 3 and MD 2 lily last hope, opening a slot in the side for maybe a singleton Grim Lavamancer or 2nd Kitchen Finks.
And what do everyone think what the metagame will be like? with jtms unban, I’m expecting there’s going to be a lot of uw miracle and grixis control with so many trying to break modern with jtms.. at least for the next month or so? After that maybe there might even be jeskai miracle or even esper control emerging? That’s my guess..
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
It depends which creature it is and also if you can dump a card if you + the Lili. Ofc it would be best to activate Lili first. Do it if you can. There is definitely not a rule to follow as it completely depends on the situation, but generally, if you want max value out of your cascade, then activating Lili first makes sense.
Yeah loads of control. Afterwards combo decks and aggro decks praying on control. Then maybe us having a good time.
You would need 4 LoTV for sure.
I feel like people are overreacting a little bit to having a new tool in their deck and are warping their lists a bit above expectations just to appease the new card.
That said, k-command seems better now than ever before. Big fan of 2 or even 3 of these.
I also feel like fatal push should be a 2-of maybe. That's more tricky but only one seems low to me.
Two maelstrom pulse is pretty good but I'm gonna run a 1/1 split between pulse and abrupt decay. The uncounterable and instant is very valuable.
Otherwise I see most people are in more or less the same place which is cool. Jund life
How good LotV will be depends a lot on the meta you're playing in. LotV is bad against swarm decks (Affinity ++), dredge, and bad against lingering souls, recurring creatures like Kitchen Finks/Voice of Resurgence, Blood Ghast, Flamewake Phoenix etc. LotV is generally good against most control and combo decks, and good against decks with few but powerful and non-recurring creatures. Most jund-players prefer 4 maindeck LotV, but some jund-players have had great success with 3 LotV. Examples - Keita Kawasaki, who top 8'ed Grand Prix Guangzhou 2016 with 3 LotV, Vidianto Wijaya in Grand Prix Los Angeles 2016, and Andrew Huska who 2nd placed Grand Prix Minneapolis 2014. The 3-drop spot in Jund have been getting more competition over the years, with Kol. Command printed in 2015 and LotLH in 2016 to compete with LotV. I can also mention Ben Friedman's controversial new BBE-list with no LotV and 2 goyf:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36629_The-End-Of-Moderns-Golden-Age.html I don't think his list looks good, but it demonstrates that there are different opinions of these things.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Why should it be?
No disrespect, but the question for me is how viable some opinions are. Some more than others I would say (concerning Friedmans approach).
Me too. Like master Duke said, who also posted a list with 4 inquisitions, i dont wanna give up too much on my aggro matchups.
Especially now that bobs will be hitting harder
4/2 inquisition/seize was the original accepted decent amount of discard before shadow became the new kid on the block. For the moment I'm going to rock those 2 thoughtseize in order to not just insta-lose to bigger decks.
I respectfully disagree. My experience has shown that actually the most common way to handle an Etched Champion is IOK. Liliana is useless most of the time, and good Affinity players will play around that 100 % if they can. It would take multiple removal spells alongside enough mana and LoTV to kill an Champion on board. The best way to kill a champion on board is Damnation no questions asked.
That being said, It is usually ok to leave in 1-2 LoTV if you don't have enough TS to board out. I personally like to leave in 3-4 IOK after SB to deal with Champions. It is also not the first Champion thats bothering me, its the second, or an unanswered Plating attached to it which gets us sometimes.
The affinity player sacrificing Champion to LotV is not a very common scenario, as he most often have other weenies he can sacrifice, or he can activate a blinkmoth/Inkmoth to sacrifice. LotV can work against affinity sometimes, though, especially if they have a slow hand.
According to Reid Duke's sideboard guide from june all 4 LotV comes out against Affinity:
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-jund-deck-guide/
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Liliana is interesting for sure. Last hope is eminently better in this matchup and liliana is always quite decent at capitalising on a poor start from an opponent buy she's not at her best here. For starters her discard ability will be mostly useless.
You're better off slimming down your mana curve and bringing in replacements such as ancient grudge. Liliana will only be the slightest of roadblocks to an affinity deck and in some instances will make barely any difference to their actual clock.
People aren't overreacting, if you've read Jadine, Reid and Friedmans articles, they're advocating for Jund to change. They were well written and thought out.
This isn't a 4 drop that we can just slot in and call it a day.
Jund has always been a 1 for 1 deck---BBE now really changes this. K-Command, while good, never used this card as well as Shadow or Grixis Control, until now. The K-Command loops with BBE is very much a real thing.
Everyone is becoming too attached to cutting a little removal. Take a look at older lists, they weren't overloaded with removal. This aggression gives Jund a little less of that "oops, drew the wrong half of the deck" syndrome.
We aren't "warping" our decks...this is a part of deck building. If you have a bunch of awful cascades targets, it means your deck isn't well built. Jund can't 100% overhaul everything, but it can minimize it.
Think of it like Living End---if they had a bunch of cascade targets that didn't go into Living End, would you consider that good deck building?
As for you guys playing 4x LOTV, 2 Last Hope, 3x K-Command, you guys are overdoing it, that's too many 3 drops.
As for Affinity, On the draw, you side out 3 to 4 copies of LOTV. On the play, you can keep 1 to 2 LOTV.
You keep in all IOK to deal with Affinity and shave the rest of the discard.
Also, if you don't want to run 3 Seize/2 IOK, reverse it and go 3 IOK/2 Seize. I've always been a 4/2 split, and rarely went 3/3. I do think Jace changes this now, but if burn or aggro arises I can absolutely agree with you guys.
I love Reid put playing no thoughtseizes in the main is an awful, awful idea.