MTG Salvation

Quote from meite »

I also think that Dreadbore deserves maindeck spot, since we want to maximize our hit chance with cascade. I am also dropping Abrupt Decay for now. I think that Abrupt Decay is great on hitting opposing Liliana's as well as Blood Moon and some artifacts. But with Dreadbore, Kommand and Pulse, I think all of those aspects are already handled.

Here is my current approach:

NZB2323's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Verdant Catacombs 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Overgrown Tomb 1 Blood Crypt 1 Stomping Ground 2 Swamp 1 Forest 3 Raging Ravine 4 Blackcleave Cliffs 1 Twilight Mire 1 Treetop Village	4 Bloodbraid Elf 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Dark Confidant 2 Scavenging Ooze 4 Liliana of the Veil 2 Fatal Push 2 Kolaghan's Command 4 Lightning Bolt 2 Maelstrom Pulse 2 Dreadbore 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Thoughtseize		Sideboard 3 Collective Brutality 2 Ancient Grudge 1 Thrun, the Last Troll 4 Fulminator Mage 1 Grim Lavamancer 2 Nihil Spellbomb 2 Liliana, the Last Hope

I don’t think we want to drop Abrupt Decay. It’s the only card that can answer Blood Moon when it’s relevant, and UR Blood Moon and GR Blood Moon will be super popular now. If anything I think we drop fatal push.

I think Thoughtseize gets a lot better than IoK now. IoK is a little too conditional for the cascade trigger, especially if we're trying to take an opposing Jace deck down.

I think what Jadine said is spot on We need to change our approach to accommodate bloodbraid. We need to start thinking the most value in the most situations. Brutality seems fantastic because of it's versatility against a wide range of matchups and its ability to always do something relevant. This is why i think we need to cut down on IOK and main brutality. Here's where I'm at right now:

// 60 Maindeck
// 13 Creature
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

// 10 Instant
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Abrupt Decay

// 24 Land
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Twilight Mire

// 4 Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil

// 9 Sorcery
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Dreadbore
2 Collective Brutality


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb

// 7 Creature
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 3 Fulminator Mage
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Kitchen Finks

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge

// 2 Planeswalker
SB: 2 Liliana, the Last Hope

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 1 Collective Brutality
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse

So it's 14th Feb in the States now... come ooon MTGO

btw here's where I'm at with deck development ATM...

Yep, zero Fatal Push... happy to be the lab-rat.

I truly think 4x Fulminator mages may now be a thing. It's stock rises with Jace decks, and the Tron decks that attempt to prey from the unbans.

I actually am starting to think Thrun may be left on the sidelines

I have a feeling Jund will need to run 2x Cages/2x Nihil spellbombs in order to fight back decks that think they're going to be cute with glass cannons.


-Cutting all pushes is absurd
-4 Thoughtseizes is bad deck building, the bob and upward cmc cost won't support it well
-4 Thoughtseizes may bite you in the ass, people will try to go underneath the Tron and Jace decks
-I keep seeing you guys trying to play blooming marsh, it'll probably be a twilight mire going back to that slot


I think a sideboard may look something like




If the maindeck doesn't change drastically, I have a feeling that'll be a safe sideboard

I expect people to play things like dredge to try and meta in large tournaments

If Collected Company disappears from modern perhaps 1x Cage will be the right call, fitting nicely for an anger of the gods, or another grind card.


Every report of Jeskai/UW looks really grim for Jund, guys. Be prepared to realize Jund may have actually taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Unless some serious innovations occur in Jund I really suspect non blue midrange may suffer big time.

I really think the deck needs 2 pulse in the 75. Tokens is gonna come back and so is souls. That together with lilies, jaces, and karns mean that you really want to maximize pulse's effect. Also, time will tell but I think Jace might get toned down by aggressive decks, in which case Jund benefits.

No Damnation anymore? anger of the gods I can understand, cascade into that sounds like a bad idea.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Every report of Jeskai/UW looks really grim for Jund, guys. Be prepared to realize Jund may have actually taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Unless some serious innovations occur in Jund I really suspect non blue midrange may suffer big time.

You are probably right. I watched one guy playing "Grixis Jace" against Jund in Twitch yesterday and it looked brutal. He glocked the board with Bitterblossom tokens and brainstormed all the removal in the world with Jace. Made BBE look ridiculous..

In the coming weeks we prolly see all sort of blue decks (Grixis,UW,Jeskai,Esper,BUG,RUG) playing Jace and this will eventually lead the metagame to become super aggressive. That is when Jund comes back in.

Quote from Wakkz »

No Damnation anymore? anger of the gods I can understand, cascade into that sounds like a bad idea.

Cascading into anger is pretty good because it resolves before bloodbraid actually enters play.

Played a few games last night against Abzan midrange & struggled a bit. I realise Abzan was always the favoured deck in the matchup but still it wasn't brilliant.

It pulled me towards an idea; what do we think about running a white shockland in the maindeck and putting lingering souls in our sideboard? Death's Shadow plays the same trick, it's not a huge stretch for us to do the same. Would work well with bloodbraid of course.

Sure we need to beat the first wave of jace decks atm, so having thrun and choke is crucial probably.

Quote from LEH »

Boil?

Is also a good option.

One big issue both cards have is the non island landslike colonnade and fastlands/checklands.

Quote from meite »

You are probably right. I watched one guy playing "Grixis Jace" against Jund in Twitch yesterday and it looked brutal. He glocked the board with Bitterblossom tokens and brainstormed all the removal in the world with Jace. Made BBE look ridiculous..

Bitterblossom, eh? Well, good thing you're in the right color to remove that with an Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse then.
Now if I was playing Jeskai Jace, on the other hand, that Bitterblossom would scare the crap out of me as I'd have no maindeck ways to remove it ... (EDIT)In jund you could even play that bitterblossom yourself.

choke can be cascarded into, boil cant

What about pitching needle in the board? It can name Jace, the mind sculptor or Azcanta, the sunken ruin. We can also bring it in against Tron to name Karn liberated, Ugin, expidition map, or oblivion stone. Against affinity we could name a manland, cranial plating, or steel overseer.

Quote from LEH »

Quote from layf »

choke can be cascarded into, boil cant

I feel that Boil is generally a much stronger card overall though - particularly as nearly every deck I'm coming across since the announcement is running Blood Moons. BBE shouldn't be the focus of the deck, it's a great tool and offers us a quicker clock and potential 2 for 1s but it shouldn't mean that we warp every card in our 75 around it - it's simply a value play or a chance to search for a much needed answer. It's essentially Junds Snapcaster Mage.

I thought Bob was Junds snapcaster?

I don't love the idea of choke, but perhaps it'll be right to have for the first month or so.

I disagree with you a little though, LEH, Jund is going to warp itself around BBE. Like I said, the MTG/Facebook community may be looking at just jamming 3 to 4 copies, but this whole deck could look entirely different two months from now.


I also wouldn't be shocked if Jund is left for dead and something like BUG is what we all migrate towards.

We have to see what the meta cycle becomes. Modern will probably look like a mess for the next two months and Jace will be alarming and shoved into every deck. There's going to be people saying, "he's reducing diversity, he'll need to be banned". We'll need to see what meta occurs to fight him so that Jund is able to fight blue's predators (that aren't tron and titanshift).

Okay guys, everyone needs to take 5 and grab a breather. It’s great to get excited, but we’re starting to go a little overboard.

There are basically 3 videos of Jund vs BBE that people keep linking to as proof that this matchup is now horrible. The problem with those videos is that all 3 Jund lists are basically existing lists that added Bloodbraid Elf, which is just bad. The SCG Jund list was playing Blood Moon in the sideboard, and the CFB list had boarded in Collective Brutality (which I think is no longer good enough against U/W because it misses too many key cards), was still playing Tireless Tracker, and didn’t cast a single Kitchen Finks in 2 matches. Jace decks pick up more by just adding Jace than BBE decks do by just adding BBE, which is also a contributing factor to how lopsided this matchup has looked in those videos. All of that is ignoring the fact that Snapcaster control decks have never been a great matchup for Jund, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that unrefined Jund lists aren’t winning the matchup.

I would be wary of warping the shell of the MD too much right out of the gate. Brutality is a great card but it isn’t a snap replacement for Inquisition, 1 vs 2 mana is very real and Brutality’s discard mode targets are fairly narrow.

Everything’s gonna be great, the cards still aren’t legal in paper and we’re only at the earliest stages of figuring out a new meta.

I think boarding in CB against UW is the right thing

But maybe Kitchen Finks comes back, I dunno.

I agree you can't just replace an IOK with CB

I would rather replace push with cb than going down on 1 mana discard.

Also to add, how do we know if those guys actually played well? Playing jund benefits greatly from skill as well, and experience.

I'd say the starcity and new Channelfireball video are competent players

I've only been playing jund for about half a year now so I am far from an expert and would love some of you more experienced players thoughts on grim flayer instead of ooze. My thoughts is with bloodbraid we now have a way of closing out the game faster and don't really want to go into long grindy games in this format esp with jace around. Grim flayer allows a faster clock. A way to predict our cascade from bbe and a way to insure dark confidant doesn't kill us. I just think with the possible 4 bbe (4 cost> bob)all the shocking we will do to ourselves to insure our mana is correct, we can't afford not to close out the game quick. Grim also powers goyf quicker plus cascading into a possible 4/4 with trample is better than a 2/2 that we have to spend mana to get better. Again just what I was thinking this morning and would love y'alls input.