Played this last night, had some success. Didn't change my board even thought I had 3 additional 4 drops which was a mistake imo, even if having such a big top end helped me out against all the Jace decks.
Grim Flayer over performed a lot. Breaking though X/1 blockers and still killing Jace is really nice. He can run with game if you get him through on Turn 2 as well, sets up BBE nicely and helps Dark Confidant randomly kill you out of nowhere. (We have all had the ol' Flip 4 drop into 3 drop into 4 drop before. I split him and Confidant 3/3 so I could get a better feel for Flayer and I think he is fantastic.
Bolt is good, but I don't know if dropping to 2 Pushes is right. Yeah push is lackluster against Jace but its still so good against Goyf and so many other cards. Maybe adding more of other unconditional removal back will help.
I missed Abrupt Decay in the main a lot as well. Its not the greatest right now but it's almost never dead.
1 Dreadbore over a Terminate felt fine. Gives us one more answer to Jace and hits other stuff like Karn/Ugin. Might be better as Pulse #2.
Not sure how I feel about 2 KCommand main, 1 might be right.
All in all I think I could go
+1 Terminate / -1 K Command
+1 Abrupt Decay / -1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Dark Confidant / -1 Grim Flayer
MAYBE +1 Fatal Push / -1 Lightning Bolt
Heres the list I'm going to be running. Lingering souls may look out of place or 'greedy' but it's actually pretty darn easy to cast in this shell. You can cast it with your Godless Shrine, Bloodbraid Elf, or pitch it to Collective Brutality/Liliana of the Veil. Or if you want to get really fancy escalate it off a cascaded Collective Brutality. It's a huge mirror breaker and if Jace, the Mind Sculptor decks become the new deck to beat, it does a good job of going wide. The rest of the deck is pretty standard aside from no Inquisition of Kozilek.
This is basically where I'm at as well with a few minor changes. Do you think we should drop the 4th BBE? I'm also unsure if I should run a singleton Blooming Marsh or Twilight Mire. The only other suggestion I have is maybe run a Thrun in the sideboard. I expect a lot of control decks now that Jace is unbanned. Uncounterable, Hexproof, 4/4 with Regen seems pretty good vs them.
Blooming Marsh is surely a mistake imo. You cant afford to not hit your fourth land untapped. And Blackcleave is important especially since we run more bolts again.
Blooming Marsh is surely a mistake imo. You cant afford to not hit your fourth land untapped. And Blackcleave is important especially since we run more bolts again.
Good point, I think you're right. Top decking a Blooming Marsh on turn 4 would be awful. I think this is where I'm at now..
I THINK that's pretty much all of the Sideboard cards we are going to want, just a matter of tuning to the meta. Still kind of decided of how I want to tune my board as of now.
That Jadine's article was great thing to read, really put me thinking the future play style of Jund. I think Jund might be coming such a value train that we dont even realize yet.
Should our mainboard discard package become Thoughtseizes + Collective Brutalities, in order to avoid whiffing with cascade as much as possible?
Also the landbase of Yuuya Watanabe's 2012 Jund list is interesting, total of 6 manlands!
Blooming Marsh is surely a mistake imo. You cant afford to not hit your fourth land untapped. And Blackcleave is important especially since we run more bolts again.
Good point, I think you're right. Top decking a Blooming Marsh on turn 4 would be awful. I think this is where I'm at now..
Sideboard (15) 3-4 Fulminator Mage 1-2 Grim Lavamancer 0-1 Thrun, the Last Troll 0-1 Liliana, the Last Hope 1-2 Grafdigger's Cage 1-2 Nihil Spellbomb 2 Ancient Grudge
I THINK that's pretty much all of the Sideboard cards we are going to want, just a matter of tuning to the meta. Still kind of decided of how I want to tune my board as of now.
Thats a good start, but I think Kitchen Finks will be there in the mix as well. Dont think we need Cage anymore actually, why should we?
Thats a good start, but I think Kitchen Finks will be there in the mix as well. Dont think we need Cage anymore actually, why should we?
Oh yeah, I always forget about Finks. That card could be really good going into the new meta if it's mostly control and go wide strategies with some big mana thrown in.
If we really want to go the anti-Jace route we could run 2 dreadbore and 2 maelstrom pulse. I also think that traditional Tron and BW tokens will see an increase in play to prey on Jund and Jace control, so being able to take out a Karn or a Sorin with 1 card would be nice.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I also think that Dreadbore deserves maindeck spot, since we want to maximize our hit chance with cascade. I am also dropping Abrupt Decay for now. I think that Abrupt Decay is great on hitting opposing Liliana's as well as Blood Moon and some artifacts. But with Dreadbore, Kommand and Pulse, I think all of those aspects are already handled.
You cant play 3 oozes with BBE being a staple now, since 4 Goyf and 4 Bob are fixed, as well as 3 BBE. You dont want too many creatures imo. And that only leaves a spot for max 2 OOze.
Watching LSVs video on winners and loosers kinda makes me tend towards 4 Lili PWs and 2-3 KCommand actually.
Doesn't the Last Hope make more sense than the third K Command?
Jadine's article made a lot of sense, people are just jamming 4x BBE's in. Jund could look radically different a month from now. CB looks like a possibility
The 4x main deck copies of thoughtseizes seem silly, though
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Totally agree. “Greatness, at any cost” is not to be taken lightly.
The only matchup Bob as really bad against is Burn, and we auto-side out in that matchup anyway.
Here is an interesting article about BBE: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36619_The-Secrets-Of-Bloodbraid-Elf.html
Its also select, so enjoy!
ALso on the Dreadbore vs Pulse issue, Dreabore definitely not comes in in the Pulse slot. It would take up a Terminate slot 100 %.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Flayer
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
Instants and Soc.
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Inquistion
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Twilight Mire
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
Played this last night, had some success. Didn't change my board even thought I had 3 additional 4 drops which was a mistake imo, even if having such a big top end helped me out against all the Jace decks.
Grim Flayer over performed a lot. Breaking though X/1 blockers and still killing Jace is really nice. He can run with game if you get him through on Turn 2 as well, sets up BBE nicely and helps Dark Confidant randomly kill you out of nowhere. (We have all had the ol' Flip 4 drop into 3 drop into 4 drop before. I split him and Confidant 3/3 so I could get a better feel for Flayer and I think he is fantastic.
Bolt is good, but I don't know if dropping to 2 Pushes is right. Yeah push is lackluster against Jace but its still so good against Goyf and so many other cards. Maybe adding more of other unconditional removal back will help.
I missed Abrupt Decay in the main a lot as well. Its not the greatest right now but it's almost never dead.
1 Dreadbore over a Terminate felt fine. Gives us one more answer to Jace and hits other stuff like Karn/Ugin. Might be better as Pulse #2.
Not sure how I feel about 2 KCommand main, 1 might be right.
All in all I think I could go
+1 Terminate / -1 K Command
+1 Abrupt Decay / -1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Dark Confidant / -1 Grim Flayer
MAYBE +1 Fatal Push / -1 Lightning Bolt
Questions to ask:
Do we want 4 or 5 Lili PWs?
3 or 4 BBE?
1 or 2 Push?
How many Terminates and how many Decays?
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
If you dont want to hit your fourth land untapped to not be able to play BBE, then no.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Scavenging Ooze
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Sorceries
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
1 Collective Brutality
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dreadbore
1 Lingering Souls
1 Duress
This is basically where I'm at as well with a few minor changes. Do you think we should drop the 4th BBE? I'm also unsure if I should run a singleton Blooming Marsh or Twilight Mire. The only other suggestion I have is maybe run a Thrun in the sideboard. I expect a lot of control decks now that Jace is unbanned. Uncounterable, Hexproof, 4/4 with Regen seems pretty good vs them.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Good point, I think you're right. Top decking a Blooming Marsh on turn 4 would be awful. I think this is where I'm at now..
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Bloodbraid Elf
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (10)
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize
Land (24)
1 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodbraid Elf or 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Dreadbore (Instead of Terminate or Fatal Push?)
Potential Sideboard:
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Should our mainboard discard package become Thoughtseizes + Collective Brutalities, in order to avoid whiffing with cascade as much as possible?
Also the landbase of Yuuya Watanabe's 2012 Jund list is interesting, total of 6 manlands!
Thats a good start, but I think Kitchen Finks will be there in the mix as well. Dont think we need Cage anymore actually, why should we?
Oh yeah, I always forget about Finks. That card could be really good going into the new meta if it's mostly control and go wide strategies with some big mana thrown in.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Here is my current approach:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Treetop Village
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Dreadbore
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
You cant play 3 oozes with BBE being a staple now, since 4 Goyf and 4 Bob are fixed, as well as 3 BBE. You dont want too many creatures imo. And that only leaves a spot for max 2 OOze.
No not really.
Also on an empty board you cannot cast this card at all.
Doesn't the Last Hope make more sense than the third K Command?
Jadine's article made a lot of sense, people are just jamming 4x BBE's in. Jund could look radically different a month from now. CB looks like a possibility
The 4x main deck copies of thoughtseizes seem silly, though