I did with Hazoret. What type of metagame are you trying to beat up with that?
Well I have the feeling that our removal suite is just too situational at times, we dont have the efficiency in our renovals anymore like we used to. Decay is not at its best, lists cut pulse entirely and so on. Maybe attacking the hand helps to keep up efficiency in interaction. And thats basically the meta right now where this is needed. Decks dodge push which makes push awkward for example. Its hard to tell if its right, but might be worth the try.
I generally still keep it to 6 discard spells in the main and add another Inquisition, Thoughtseize or Duress to my sideboard in those cases in addition to two sideboard Collective Brutality. The only other thing I might change is my Inquisition/Thoughtseize split in the main deck based on what I'm trying to deal with. Keeping 7 or more discard spells in the main can lead to some really lame topdecks, but more importantly, when I want to cut them, it feels bad.
What is the Jund curve topping creature of choice? Kalitas Olivia Huntmaster Hazoret the Goblin? Since I play Abzan I will start collecting the pieces for Jund so I can switch between the decks whenever I want. I made that question before because I wanted to know if one of the two is just worse now so I needed to speed up or slow down finishing Jund. Thanks for the responses
There is no perfect curve ender. It completely depends on your meta. Best ones are Huntmaster, Olivia, Hazoret Kalitas and Rabblemaster.
What is the Jund curve topping creature of choice? Kalitas Olivia Huntmaster Hazoret the Goblin? Since I play Abzan I will start collecting the pieces for Jund so I can switch between the decks whenever I want. I made that question before because I wanted to know if one of the two is just worse now so I needed to speed up or slow down finishing Jund. Thanks for the responses
There is no perfect curve ender. It completely depends on your meta. Best ones are Huntmaster, Olivia, Hazoret Kalitas and Rabblemaster.
Also something I noted earlier. Sometimes I think none of them are good options. Also, you shouldn't disregard Pia and Kiran NalaarFoil. When you don't expect Huntmaster to flip, sometimes just having a good amount of bodies and flexibility is enough.
Hello guys, long time forum viewer but not realy got into posting.
I have bin playing magic for quite a while now and allways played "budget" builds. but allways buying staples for those decks too use it the big decks.
After a long while i am coming too build the deck i would love too play most. I realy enjoy midrange decks. And jund seems like allot of fun.
for those intrested here is my current build:
My local meta is mainly:
Mono black vamp
B/R vamp
E tron
naya zoo
Grixis
naya kiki chord
mardu tokens
8 rack
B/W tokens
storm
and some more budget decks
any imput on my list i an thinking of putting into sleeves? what should i change or is it just a bad idea in that meta? thanks in advance!
Hello guys, long time forum viewer but not realy got into posting.
I have bin playing magic for quite a while now and allways played "budget" builds. but allways buying staples for those decks too use it the big decks.
After a long while i am coming too build the deck i would love too play most. I realy enjoy midrange decks. And jund seems like allot of fun.
for those intrested here is my current build:
My local meta is mainly:
Mono black vamp
B/R vamp
E tron
naya zoo
Grixis
naya kiki chord
mardu tokens
8 rack
B/W tokens
storm
and some more budget decks
any imput on my list i an thinking of putting into sleeves? what should i change or is it just a bad idea in that meta? thanks in advance!
Your manabase is not quite optimal. You need at least 18 black sources to consistantly have double black on turn 3 for Liliana. You have too many red/green sources. I am assuming this is a budget manabase atm?
15 creatures are a lot in Jund. Normal lists play 13 to max 14 creatures. I would not run rabblemaster for your meta, as your meta is heavily based on creatures. Grim Lavamancer and PKN seem amazing here.
3 Decay is way too many. You need terminates, which you completely miss. Cut 1 decay and 2 rabblemaster for 3 terminate here.
Collective Brutality is not needed in your maindeck. Fit the 24th land in here.
Your meta has a lot of red based creature strategies, what does Blood Moon do here? I would cut it.
Terminates should be in the maindeck. You need it especially for E-Tron.
I would totally run Night of Souls' Betrayal in your SB for those Token strategies.
I played in 2 more events over the weekend, a 1k in which I got 16th (losing 2 win and in's yet again) and my team placed 6th in a Team Trios event (though it was a cut to top 4 and we ended up at 2-2 overall) as I prep for Santa Clara. I didn't take notes this weekend as I forgot my notepad at home so I don't have a full tournament report but I will say, I got flooded a TON. Many many of my losses were games where I drew 3 lands in a row. The strange thing is on MTGO I'm having the opposite problem on the exact same 75. Many many 1 land unkeepable openers that I have to throw back. Oddly enough I think I am going to trim back to 23 lands in paper to either go to 7 MB Discard or 7 MB spot removal spells (kinda feel like adding the 4th Push).
All in all I felt great on both days playing the deck. The 1k Meta was extremely weird as there were 0 Traditional Tron decks in the room and only 2 E. Tron and 2 Scapeshift. Outside of that, there was a ton of Uxx type decks. This is pretty par the course for my meta anyway (people love their u based control decks) and people really can't/don't shift drastically in paper when decks start performing well at GPs. It's just too costly for most.
I am still planning to run Jund at GP Santa Clara but I've also added GB Tron, Humans and Jeskai to my testing radar for the event. I really really don't want to play Tron but I'm falling into that reasoning, "If you think it's doing the most busted broken things in the format, you should be playing it at competitive events". It would have been really really good this weekend too *puts gun in mouth*.
Still, if I end up going with Jund, I am totally happy with that. It's a deck I play well and I love my overall list. Rabblemaster is insane as usual and I'm even in my losses, I never regretted sleeving up Jund for both events. I would like to figure out a better SB plan for Jeskai however. It's a bit tough as it feels like there are 40 million iterations of the deck which all function slightly differently. Currently the 1 flex slot in my sideboard that I haven't been needing is my 1x Kalitas. He's a great card but I think I am moving on to something else. I'm not sure what that thing will be but I do think I want something that puts a hamper on Jeskai. If I got a choice, I'd love it to be something that dodges Queller, bolt/helix and doesn't feel awful getting pathed. I think it'd also be nice to have it be an aggressive card so I can bring it in during matchups I wanted to be the beatdown anyway and while maybe it's not as back breaking, it still be pretty good. Here is a short list of random options for that slot (notably these don't answer all these criterias but usually meet 2/3) [warning: some of these go pretty deep]:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Honestly, the card has been pretty meh for me overall. It gets hit by spell queller and rarely did i ever enjoy using it's minus. I don't think it's good enough but it's a popular choice among others.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow - So I played this MB in a more delirium heavy version of Abzan a while back and it was better than Seige Rhino. Delirium isn't insanely hard to turn on in my experience and if this thing gets to resolve it creates an army of dudes that block and kill Spell Quellers nicely. It also benefits by being great against Lingering Souls and Affinity (like we need help there though) My problem with the card is it isn't agressive and 5 cmc is a lot. If you don't have delirium it's also not great either.
Stormbreath Dragon - I am giving this card serious consideration. The most common variants of Jeskai I have been seeing would really really struggle to fight this card if it resolves. A good portion are running zero sweepers and it only dies to bolt snap bolt (or bolt and occasional Clique block), god forbid this card becomes monstrous, it probably just kills them. This fits the aggressive plan well because while 5cmc is a lot, in matchups where you want to be the aggressor, dropping a big threat every turn you can is important and the haste would be nice. I think if I had this in my SB and it was proving to be good enough I wouldn't be dropping the 24th land, instead I'd just deal with the flooding knowing I had a good payoff should I draw it.
Vance's Blasting Cannons - This is the effect we want most of the time out of Chandra but without the vulnerability of being attacked. Enchantment removal is also far less likely. This card isn't great when we are the aggressor but in the Jeskai mirror I like the option of not just getting a free card a turn but also flipping this into a bolt land if we need to. In those matchups it's kind of nice to stockpile spells (so you don't run into the "they counter everything you play" plan and instead get to drop multiple threats in a turn where 1 is going to resolve in the end) so getting to 3 spells isn't unheard of. Even when you are not flipping this, it's getting you value in a way that Jeskai likely won't be bringing in to deal with (Jeskai isn't bringing in Wear//Tear for game 2 and even if they see it and bring it in for game 3, that card is dead against the rest of the deck). The Jeskai variants also have a lot less land hate than their UW cousins so once it's flipped, they'll have to bounce it with Cryptic or it can cause serious problems for them. Now I don't necessarily think this card is at it's best with the way our deck is currently configured. If we had more "2 spells for 1 card for cheap" than I'd feel better about it. Examples of that are Claim//Fame and Traverse. Both cards give you the option of casting 2 spells for 3 mana so getting to storm 3 is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately our deck doesn't really do that. This card is "digging pretty deep" when considering the slot to fill but it's at least worth the thought exercise IMO.
Boil/Choke: I could just go the hate route and try to bone my opponent out of the game. I think these options are fine but way too narrow. I'd rather have something that I can use in other matches as well.
Shaper's Sanctuary: With the removal of sweepers and reliance on spot removal, this can come in under hate cards and really make life awkward for Jeskai. We don't get as much use out of it as a deck like Elves does but again, I'm just going over options as they come off the top of my head.
Anathemancer: I have long loved this card and it is an option. Unearth means that even if it's bolted or helixed, we can bring it back later. When I've played with it before it did an average of 2-5 damage when it entered which is not unreasonable and can potentially really put the hurt to Jeskai. While this card isn't very versatile, it does give us another card to bring in and be aggressive which I like.
There are probably lots more options out there, I expect to see a lot more Jeskai moving forward as it seems to have a great "against the field" type matchups with only a few bad ones (like Tron). It'd be nice to not feel like such a dog in that fight.
Have you considered good ol' Thragtusk? He doesn't dodge bolt/helix but he also doesn't care too much about dying to them, and he also pads your life total so that they can't just burn you out.
I would at first divide Jeskai Control into two categories. There is the tempo version which runs Quellers and burn, and then there is the slower control-ish version running a bunch of Planeswalkers.
Sweet! All these are good options. I forgot about adding Thragtusk to my list I also like Regisaur Alpha because while he doesn't pad your life total, he does help in the aggro matchup and his main body dodges bolt/helix. Essentially I do like the option of a 5 drop or something like Thrun, the Last Troll. Something awkward to counter and/or hard to remove. Thrun is sort of like that, being weak to Queller is the lone exception. I'm mainly worried about the Tempo Variants (queller/burn) because that is primarily what I expect to see at GP Santa Clara (of the 3 variants).
Bow seems awkward. It gets countered by everything, it doesn't kill quellers, gaining 3 life is relevant but not how i feel like we are winning the matchup and the deathtouch seems irrelevant since our creatures are bigger than theirs anyway. I'm just not convinced it's the right tool for the job.
I already have 1x Hazoret in the side and don't want a 2nd. Tracker i think is actively bad against Jeskai since it gets hit by all their removal spells and queller.
Only thing I can think of which might be difficult is that I only have 2 sweeper. Might want to cut a CB in favor of a second Anger, since I put in TS now, but I am afraid on going below 2 CB since that is the only good Burn hate I have and Burn can always appear. Maybe the TS is not worth it and should be a sweeper instead, but I guess I'll see how it goes.
For the maindeck, the basic idea is to have good chances to answer Big Mana and Combo decks, while still being sufficient enough to beat creature based decks. I think with Hazoret, Rabblemaster and GQ main the chances of sniping games is pretty high. And Hazoret has applications against creature based decks also I feel.
Your manabase is not quite optimal. You need at least 18 black sources to consistantly have double black on turn 3 for Liliana. You have too many red/green sources. I am assuming this is a budget manabase atm?
15 creatures are a lot in Jund. Normal lists play 13 to max 14 creatures. I would not run rabblemaster for your meta, as your meta is heavily based on creatures. Grim Lavamancer and PKN seem amazing here.
3 Decay is way too many. You need terminates, which you completely miss. Cut 1 decay and 2 rabblemaster for 3 terminate here.
Collective Brutality is not needed in your maindeck. Fit the 24th land in here.
Your meta has a lot of red based creature strategies, what does Blood Moon do here? I would cut it.
Terminates should be in the maindeck. You need it especially for E-Tron.
I would totally run Night of Souls' Betrayal in your SB for those Token strategies.
All in all here is my list for you:
Thanks for the well explained reply! i will look into getting some of these cards still that i dont have atm.
Blood moon was in there for the few (E)tron decks and i forgot to mention the jeskai deck also. but might be bad since they do indeed also have red in the decks?
what makes PKN such a good card? i never played it before? the multiple bodys and flying? +the block+ping with pkn?
also huntmaster seemed good but i notice you did not put her in the 75? is it just better lifegain with CB in the sideboard?
cause Huntmaster also seemed nice with 2 bodys and a bit of lifegain. but there must be a good reason you left her out.
allso added more black/green lands in i'll have too see too get more Blackcleave Cliffs and a Overgrown Tomb too start with for better mana. Night of souls betrayal is also a good one and ill see into getting that in there.
Some choices are indeed done since i went with budget decks so far but ill invest into the last bit since i am allmost there i think.
here is an updated list. Do you think it looks better so far? these cards i had in my collection allready. i will have too look into getting the rest of them.
Blood moon was in there for the few (E)tron decks and i forgot to mention the jeskai deck also. but might be bad since they do indeed also have red in the decks?
what makes PKN such a good card? i never played it before? the multiple bodys and flying? +the block+ping with pkn?
also huntmaster seemed good but i notice you did not put her in the 75? is it just better lifegain with CB in the sideboard?
cause Huntmaster also seemed nice with 2 bodys and a bit of lifegain. but there must be a good reason you left her out.
allso added more black/green lands in i'll have too see too get more Blackcleave Cliffs and a Overgrown Tomb too start with for better mana. Night of souls betrayal is also a good one and ill see into getting that in there.
Some choices are indeed done since i went with budget decks so far but ill invest into the last bit since i am allmost there i think.
here is an updated list. Do you think it looks better so far? these cards i had in my collection allready. i will have too look into getting the rest of them.
Blood Moon is not good vs. E-Tron and regular Tron as well. Jeskai also runs a decent number of basics, Fulminator is way better here to kill their manlands.
PKN is amazing to block and ping small creatures. Its Jund's mini Lingering Souls. Usually she is too expensive and probably not impactful enough, but since we tend to have hard times vs. token and go-wide strategies, PKN makes sense to be run. She also pairs really well with KCommand, bringing back new tokens when you bring it back from the GY. You can run Huntmaster as well here, as you like.
On your updated list:
Looks better but is still suboptimal. Your manabase is more geared towards getting black mana, however, a second issue now is that you have way too many Fastlands. The problem with them is, that past turn 3 they will come into play tapped. Jund is not a deck that operates well just on 3 lands, and therefore you really want to get an untapped land on turn 4, rather than a tapped fastland. Raging Ravine is also an issue. Normally Jund manabases run 3 Ravines, 4 Cliffs and 1 Blooming Marsh or some mix between them as potential tapped lands. 4 Marshes are too many. I would suggest reading my primer for this purpose and try to get to as close as what I suggested. I know this is budget issues right now, but its still worth it to point out.
I still think 3 Decays are 1 too many. Would cut Blood Moon in favor of Fulminator. Why do you want 2 Grudges in your SB? Your posted meta does actually not need much artifact removal. Would cut one Grudge. Other than that, the list looks fine.
1. We leave in discard against a counter cased deck, so we know if they have removal
2. With a fetch it is draw 2
3. The mana calculation is wrong, in a matchup like Jeskai we tend to have more Mana than we need somepoint in the game, so the 2 Mana for a Clue dont matter
4. If it survives for a turn or two it is insane flood protection and probaly bolt proof
5. We used to have carddraw in the board anyways for control matches, and i think Tracker is just better as Painful Truths
6. Tracker needs a adaption in play style like playing, but not cracking Fetches (what we need anyways for Push), and collecting 1 to 2 lands in hand (wich is also common as a bluff)
7. Spell Queller does not Matter against us, everey jeskai player i know just boards them out
1. Yea. You're right. I don't see how that changes the math.
2. Yay?
3. Hazoret sounds like a better use of my mana. So do man-lands, Scavenging Ooze and Grim Lavamancer.
4. If only every day were Christmas.
5. I don't. I use discard spells and do just fine. Decks that try to have the answer for everything are easily messed up with just discard spells. If that's how you want to beat them, more power to you. They do the whole card drawing thing better than you.
6. I understand how to play with it. It's not a deeply held secret. I'm saying it's just not strong enough outside of your Christmas scenario.
7. Why does Spell Queller even matter?
Updated the primer a little bit again (sideboard template, small number changes overall and updated the matchup sideboard plans a bit) and added some rules of thumb when it comes to deckbuilding. I think that this can be very helpful for beginners.
Upcoming I want to keep adding interesting articles for our deck and also what I potentially want to do is to change up the style a little bit to make stuff more visual. I kinda have the feeling the primer somwhat hard to read due to the big amount of information. Does anybody else feel this way?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I generally still keep it to 6 discard spells in the main and add another Inquisition, Thoughtseize or Duress to my sideboard in those cases in addition to two sideboard Collective Brutality. The only other thing I might change is my Inquisition/Thoughtseize split in the main deck based on what I'm trying to deal with. Keeping 7 or more discard spells in the main can lead to some really lame topdecks, but more importantly, when I want to cut them, it feels bad.
There is no perfect curve ender. It completely depends on your meta. Best ones are Huntmaster, Olivia, Hazoret Kalitas and Rabblemaster.
Also something I noted earlier. Sometimes I think none of them are good options. Also, you shouldn't disregard Pia and Kiran NalaarFoil. When you don't expect Huntmaster to flip, sometimes just having a good amount of bodies and flexibility is enough.
I have bin playing magic for quite a while now and allways played "budget" builds. but allways buying staples for those decks too use it the big decks.
After a long while i am coming too build the deck i would love too play most. I realy enjoy midrange decks. And jund seems like allot of fun.
for those intrested here is my current build:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Land
1 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
Sorcery
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Terminate
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
My local meta is mainly:
Mono black vamp
B/R vamp
E tron
naya zoo
Grixis
naya kiki chord
mardu tokens
8 rack
B/W tokens
storm
and some more budget decks
any imput on my list i an thinking of putting into sleeves? what should i change or is it just a bad idea in that meta? thanks in advance!
Your manabase is not quite optimal. You need at least 18 black sources to consistantly have double black on turn 3 for Liliana. You have too many red/green sources. I am assuming this is a budget manabase atm?
15 creatures are a lot in Jund. Normal lists play 13 to max 14 creatures. I would not run rabblemaster for your meta, as your meta is heavily based on creatures. Grim Lavamancer and PKN seem amazing here.
3 Decay is way too many. You need terminates, which you completely miss. Cut 1 decay and 2 rabblemaster for 3 terminate here.
Collective Brutality is not needed in your maindeck. Fit the 24th land in here.
Your meta has a lot of red based creature strategies, what does Blood Moon do here? I would cut it.
Terminates should be in the maindeck. You need it especially for E-Tron.
I would totally run Night of Souls' Betrayal in your SB for those Token strategies.
All in all here is my list for you:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blooming Marsh
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
Creatures [13]
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
3 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
All in all I felt great on both days playing the deck. The 1k Meta was extremely weird as there were 0 Traditional Tron decks in the room and only 2 E. Tron and 2 Scapeshift. Outside of that, there was a ton of Uxx type decks. This is pretty par the course for my meta anyway (people love their u based control decks) and people really can't/don't shift drastically in paper when decks start performing well at GPs. It's just too costly for most.
I am still planning to run Jund at GP Santa Clara but I've also added GB Tron, Humans and Jeskai to my testing radar for the event. I really really don't want to play Tron but I'm falling into that reasoning, "If you think it's doing the most busted broken things in the format, you should be playing it at competitive events". It would have been really really good this weekend too *puts gun in mouth*.
Still, if I end up going with Jund, I am totally happy with that. It's a deck I play well and I love my overall list. Rabblemaster is insane as usual and I'm even in my losses, I never regretted sleeving up Jund for both events. I would like to figure out a better SB plan for Jeskai however. It's a bit tough as it feels like there are 40 million iterations of the deck which all function slightly differently. Currently the 1 flex slot in my sideboard that I haven't been needing is my 1x Kalitas. He's a great card but I think I am moving on to something else. I'm not sure what that thing will be but I do think I want something that puts a hamper on Jeskai. If I got a choice, I'd love it to be something that dodges Queller, bolt/helix and doesn't feel awful getting pathed. I think it'd also be nice to have it be an aggressive card so I can bring it in during matchups I wanted to be the beatdown anyway and while maybe it's not as back breaking, it still be pretty good. Here is a short list of random options for that slot (notably these don't answer all these criterias but usually meet 2/3) [warning: some of these go pretty deep]:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Honestly, the card has been pretty meh for me overall. It gets hit by spell queller and rarely did i ever enjoy using it's minus. I don't think it's good enough but it's a popular choice among others.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow - So I played this MB in a more delirium heavy version of Abzan a while back and it was better than Seige Rhino. Delirium isn't insanely hard to turn on in my experience and if this thing gets to resolve it creates an army of dudes that block and kill Spell Quellers nicely. It also benefits by being great against Lingering Souls and Affinity (like we need help there though) My problem with the card is it isn't agressive and 5 cmc is a lot. If you don't have delirium it's also not great either.
Stormbreath Dragon - I am giving this card serious consideration. The most common variants of Jeskai I have been seeing would really really struggle to fight this card if it resolves. A good portion are running zero sweepers and it only dies to bolt snap bolt (or bolt and occasional Clique block), god forbid this card becomes monstrous, it probably just kills them. This fits the aggressive plan well because while 5cmc is a lot, in matchups where you want to be the aggressor, dropping a big threat every turn you can is important and the haste would be nice. I think if I had this in my SB and it was proving to be good enough I wouldn't be dropping the 24th land, instead I'd just deal with the flooding knowing I had a good payoff should I draw it.
Vance's Blasting Cannons - This is the effect we want most of the time out of Chandra but without the vulnerability of being attacked. Enchantment removal is also far less likely. This card isn't great when we are the aggressor but in the Jeskai mirror I like the option of not just getting a free card a turn but also flipping this into a bolt land if we need to. In those matchups it's kind of nice to stockpile spells (so you don't run into the "they counter everything you play" plan and instead get to drop multiple threats in a turn where 1 is going to resolve in the end) so getting to 3 spells isn't unheard of. Even when you are not flipping this, it's getting you value in a way that Jeskai likely won't be bringing in to deal with (Jeskai isn't bringing in Wear//Tear for game 2 and even if they see it and bring it in for game 3, that card is dead against the rest of the deck). The Jeskai variants also have a lot less land hate than their UW cousins so once it's flipped, they'll have to bounce it with Cryptic or it can cause serious problems for them. Now I don't necessarily think this card is at it's best with the way our deck is currently configured. If we had more "2 spells for 1 card for cheap" than I'd feel better about it. Examples of that are Claim//Fame and Traverse. Both cards give you the option of casting 2 spells for 3 mana so getting to storm 3 is pretty reasonable. Unfortunately our deck doesn't really do that. This card is "digging pretty deep" when considering the slot to fill but it's at least worth the thought exercise IMO.
Boil/Choke: I could just go the hate route and try to bone my opponent out of the game. I think these options are fine but way too narrow. I'd rather have something that I can use in other matches as well.
Shaper's Sanctuary: With the removal of sweepers and reliance on spot removal, this can come in under hate cards and really make life awkward for Jeskai. We don't get as much use out of it as a deck like Elves does but again, I'm just going over options as they come off the top of my head.
Anathemancer: I have long loved this card and it is an option. Unearth means that even if it's bolted or helixed, we can bring it back later. When I've played with it before it did an average of 2-5 damage when it entered which is not unreasonable and can potentially really put the hurt to Jeskai. While this card isn't very versatile, it does give us another card to bring in and be aggressive which I like.
There are probably lots more options out there, I expect to see a lot more Jeskai moving forward as it seems to have a great "against the field" type matchups with only a few bad ones (like Tron). It'd be nice to not feel like such a dog in that fight.
Bow seems awkward. It gets countered by everything, it doesn't kill quellers, gaining 3 life is relevant but not how i feel like we are winning the matchup and the deathtouch seems irrelevant since our creatures are bigger than theirs anyway. I'm just not convinced it's the right tool for the job.
I already have 1x Hazoret in the side and don't want a 2nd. Tracker i think is actively bad against Jeskai since it gets hit by all their removal spells and queller.
How does a 5-CMC card that says "Draw a card" sound to you?
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Land
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
1 Anger of the Gods
Only thing I can think of which might be difficult is that I only have 2 sweeper. Might want to cut a CB in favor of a second Anger, since I put in TS now, but I am afraid on going below 2 CB since that is the only good Burn hate I have and Burn can always appear. Maybe the TS is not worth it and should be a sweeper instead, but I guess I'll see how it goes.
For the maindeck, the basic idea is to have good chances to answer Big Mana and Combo decks, while still being sufficient enough to beat creature based decks. I think with Hazoret, Rabblemaster and GQ main the chances of sniping games is pretty high. And Hazoret has applications against creature based decks also I feel.
Thanks for the well explained reply! i will look into getting some of these cards still that i dont have atm.
Blood moon was in there for the few (E)tron decks and i forgot to mention the jeskai deck also. but might be bad since they do indeed also have red in the decks?
what makes PKN such a good card? i never played it before? the multiple bodys and flying? +the block+ping with pkn?
also huntmaster seemed good but i notice you did not put her in the 75? is it just better lifegain with CB in the sideboard?
cause Huntmaster also seemed nice with 2 bodys and a bit of lifegain. but there must be a good reason you left her out.
allso added more black/green lands in i'll have too see too get more Blackcleave Cliffs and a Overgrown Tomb too start with for better mana. Night of souls betrayal is also a good one and ill see into getting that in there.
Some choices are indeed done since i went with budget decks so far but ill invest into the last bit since i am allmost there i think.
here is an updated list. Do you think it looks better so far? these cards i had in my collection allready. i will have too look into getting the rest of them.
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Land
1 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
Blood Moon is not good vs. E-Tron and regular Tron as well. Jeskai also runs a decent number of basics, Fulminator is way better here to kill their manlands.
PKN is amazing to block and ping small creatures. Its Jund's mini Lingering Souls. Usually she is too expensive and probably not impactful enough, but since we tend to have hard times vs. token and go-wide strategies, PKN makes sense to be run. She also pairs really well with KCommand, bringing back new tokens when you bring it back from the GY. You can run Huntmaster as well here, as you like.
On your updated list:
Looks better but is still suboptimal. Your manabase is more geared towards getting black mana, however, a second issue now is that you have way too many Fastlands. The problem with them is, that past turn 3 they will come into play tapped. Jund is not a deck that operates well just on 3 lands, and therefore you really want to get an untapped land on turn 4, rather than a tapped fastland. Raging Ravine is also an issue. Normally Jund manabases run 3 Ravines, 4 Cliffs and 1 Blooming Marsh or some mix between them as potential tapped lands. 4 Marshes are too many. I would suggest reading my primer for this purpose and try to get to as close as what I suggested. I know this is budget issues right now, but its still worth it to point out.
I still think 3 Decays are 1 too many. Would cut Blood Moon in favor of Fulminator. Why do you want 2 Grudges in your SB? Your posted meta does actually not need much artifact removal. Would cut one Grudge. Other than that, the list looks fine.
1. Yea. You're right. I don't see how that changes the math.
2. Yay?
3. Hazoret sounds like a better use of my mana. So do man-lands, Scavenging Ooze and Grim Lavamancer.
4. If only every day were Christmas.
5. I don't. I use discard spells and do just fine. Decks that try to have the answer for everything are easily messed up with just discard spells. If that's how you want to beat them, more power to you. They do the whole card drawing thing better than you.
6. I understand how to play with it. It's not a deeply held secret. I'm saying it's just not strong enough outside of your Christmas scenario.
7. Why does Spell Queller even matter?
Upcoming I want to keep adding interesting articles for our deck and also what I potentially want to do is to change up the style a little bit to make stuff more visual. I kinda have the feeling the primer somwhat hard to read due to the big amount of information. Does anybody else feel this way?