Cards like Ancient Grudge are also less likely to get blown out by Thoughtseize or Spell Pierce. I would play 3 Ancient Grudge before playing the first Shatterstorm, but that's also just personal preference.
Kreturn is rather easy to play arround with ravager. If I really wanted a sweeper for affinty shatter storm and damnation is much safer. But I prefer grudge instead against affinity mana cost matters much in the matchup.
Btw is there a discord to discuss jund?
I could make one made several for the LGS's and personal playtesting groups
Kreturn is rather easy to play arround with ravager. If I really wanted a sweeper for affinty shatter storm and damnation is much safer. But I prefer grudge instead against affinity mana cost matters much in the matchup.
I like kcommand against burn. Making them discard and take dmg is honestly my mb plan against them ever since I discovered it playing grixis control. Its not the best plan but 2 damage and making them discard during the draw phase has saved me when they get into top deck mode quite a few times.
That is true, that is relevant sometimes. I also made that play once and got to discard an otherwise lethal Lava Spike with KCommand. However, in Jund, it is not the best and primary tool to have against Burn. 1 Mana discard and removal alongiside some lifegain (ooze, CB) and Lili disruption usually does the trick. KCommand helps surely, But we want cheaper stuff against Burn I feel.
Maybe I'm just overly partial to the card since it's the main reason I play both grixis and jund to such a high extent. I would agree we have better option after sb but, I just feel siding out kcommand is a big mistake since it provides such a useful bonus in 2 dmg and discard. Scooze, CB, Kcommand are honestly the main reason I feel comfortable not having any other form of life gain in jund. My real problem is truthfully Bob half the time I want him in against burn and sometimes I dont. Usually depends on how the first match goes against the burn deck. Since playing Rabble Jund I have yet to play it so can't confirm how I feel as of lately.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
I like kcommand against burn. Making them discard and take dmg is honestly my mb plan against them ever since I discovered it playing grixis control. Its not the best plan but 2 damage and making them discard during the draw phase has saved me when they get into top deck mode quite a few times.
That is true, that is relevant sometimes. I also made that play once and got to discard an otherwise lethal Lava Spike with KCommand. However, in Jund, it is not the best and primary tool to have against Burn. 1 Mana discard and removal alongiside some lifegain (ooze, CB) and Lili disruption usually does the trick. KCommand helps surely, But we want cheaper stuff against Burn I feel.
Maybe I'm just overly partial to the card since it's the main reason I play both grixis and jund to such a high extent. I would agree we have better option after sb but, I just feel siding out kcommand is a big mistake since it provides such a useful bonus in 2 dmg and discard. Scooze, CB, Kcommand are honestly the main reason I feel comfortable not having any other form of life gain in jund. My real problem is truthfully Bob half the time I want him in against burn and sometimes I dont. Usually depends on how the first match goes against the burn deck. Since playing Rabble Jund I have yet to play it so can't confirm how I feel as of lately.
Without question, immediatly get all Bobs out of the way. Believe me, we don't want to have this card against Burn. Don't think about it any longer, just get rid of him and call it a day. Same goes for Thoughtseize as well.
We got a new article from Jadine Klomparens, where she explains her new take on Jund for the upcoming invitational.
Key points to note:
24 lands again (also admitting that 23 land only works if you cut a ravine, just like I advocated it)
No Pulse in the maindeck
Kalitas back in the maindeck
3 Oozes maindeck (actually makes sense, its good against Storm, Humans, and Abzan CoCO)
1 Decay only (Have gotten to the same result, 1 Decay is enough right now)
Rabblemaster is only in the SB now (since Big Mana and Combo is not the dominant decks anymore, its more Affinity and Humans, against which Rabblemaster is not that great)
4 Lightning Bolts again! I have been saying that I like Bolts more in the recent times than Push. Actually, not many tier 1 decks are running Push anymore. Bolt just hits those 3 cmc low thoughness creatures better than Push (Humans, Abzan CoCo, Jeskai) I think this could be a good idea. Might not always want to pay the full playset, but maybe 3 copies are fine.
This version of hers pretty much folds to Big Mana of any kind, her strategy is to dodge it. Not sure about that personally. But its a meta thing for sure.
The strategy of just dodging big mana decks is fine right now. The known decks are all about aggression on some level right now. We're actually in a phase where Jund should be decent right now but I still don't like any of the builds I've seen.
Jadine's analysis is pretty good, she points out several things I agree with. However, I disagree with a few others:
1. I never like to just concede matchups, or rather to ignore them. For instance, big mana decks... Through testing on mtgo I have found that these decks are still prevalent which is why I want a plan. Which leads into my second point.
2. Blood Moon. I love me some free wins. This card beats valakut all on its own and is helpful vs tron. I disagree when she says that fulminator is better since its good vs jeskai, but the thing is that blood moon is good there too!
3. Abrupt Decay. She is interested in lowering her curve and running 4 bolts. Therefore, cuts had to be made. I don't think 4 bolts is where I'd like to be and the reason is mainly Death Shadow, delve creatures and Thought Knot Seer. Decay sucks vs eldrazi but can still destroy expedition maps (when on the play) and random stuff like chalices, etc, but the reason why I like Decay is because it offers versatility. I want to be able to destroy Cranial Platings, or Death Shadow (withour fear of them holding up a one mana counter for it), Spreading Seas, etc etc
Been playing a good amount on modo, feeling pretty good about my chances for GP OKC... Been trying a list with Hazoret and Kitesail Freebooter (yes, Kitesail) and have 4-1'd three leagues, my losses have been to decks like UR through the breach and tron
Chandra is really bad vs. Creature based strategies, can't see her at all in the current meta. She is also weak vs. Big Mana. I would only want her against Control and Midrange mirrors maybe, but thats about it.
3. Abrupt Decay. She is interested in lowering her curve and running 4 bolts. Therefore, cuts had to be made. I don't think 4 bolts is where I'd like to be and the reason is mainly Death Shadow, delve creatures and Thought Knot Seer. Decay sucks vs eldrazi but can still destroy expedition maps (when on the play) and random stuff like chalices, etc, but the reason why I like Decay is because it offers versatility. I want to be able to destroy Cranial Platings, or Death Shadow (withour fear of them holding up a one mana counter for it), Spreading Seas, etc etc
4 Bolts can be too much, but 3 seems good right now. I personally was unimpressed with Decay a while now and decided to cut down to 1 a few days ago. The things you are mentioning are just not that present anymore. I think killing Maps with Decay is close to irrelevant, given the fact that it is easy to play around, and not doing much in the first place. I would totally side out decay vs. Eldrazi Tron. Chalice is also not that harmful for us and IDK if they will have it against us postboard. And if they have it, we still got KCommand, which I would keep over decay anytime. Spreading Seas is an ok reason for Decay, but this is only relevant for UW Control, which again is not that present anymore. Merfolk is a good matchup generally. Against Death Shadow I also side out decays actually. So all in all I don't think that decay is that great atm and going down to 1 is perfectly the right thing to do.
The scapeshift decks only have chandra and titan left, maybe baloth as win cons if you blood moon them... I have usually been able to beat those cards once they are locked out by blood moon.
In regards to Abrupt Decay: Spreading Seas, map were just an example of versatility... I could have mentioned any card with CC < 3 to make my point. It doesn't matter if these are not popular, in a modern tournament you will often play 10 different archetypes and its hard to be prepared for everything, which is why I prefer to run catchall cards such as decay, pulse, k command... I think you get where I'm getting at.
Jund can be built in so many different ways, my preference is to be as versatile as possible.
The scapeshift decks only have chandra and titan left, maybe baloth as win cons if you blood moon them... I have usually been able to beat those cards once they are locked out by blood moon.
In regards to Abrupt Decay: Spreading Seas, map were just an example of versatility... I could have mentioned any card with CC < 3 to make my point. It doesn't matter if these are not popular, in a modern tournament you will often play 10 different archetypes and its hard to be prepared for everything, which is why I prefer to run catchall cards such as decay, pulse, k command... I think you get where I'm getting at.
Jund can be built in so many different ways, my preference is to be as versatile as possible.
Remember, a Jack of all trades is a Master of none.
Sleeving up 2 Abrupt Decay, 2 KCommands, 1 Pulse, having Diverse Liliana numbers, and a Chandra to boot may be the right call at a local FNM, but not for the upcoming Invitational. The whole article is about metagaming for decks that will be prominent at this one tournament.
This doesn't mean we should consider her word to be final, but to take the suggestions into consideration when building for our own tourney. Jund will never have a strict 75, or further, probably even an strict 60.
There can be multiple right decisions on what's played, but when it comes down to it, it all comes down to what you're against and how we crush em
Jund can be built in so many different ways, my preference is to be as versatile as possible.
Its totally fine to do so, if its your preference. But versatility is a double edged sword in my opinion. While being applicable in many cases, in specific cases they are often times too inefficient. Best examples are the Charms. Jund Charm, Golgari Charm and Rakdos Charm are all versatile spells, but in specific cases almost always too costly or too bad. For me, exactly that has been in regards for Decay. If I see that every other game I side them out, I am pretty much in alert that one copy at least has to go.
4 Lightning Bolts again! I have been saying that I like Bolts more in the recent times than Push. Actually, not many tier 1 decks are running Push anymore. Bolt just hits those 3 cmc low thoughness creatures better than Push (Humans, Abzan CoCo, Jeskai) I think this could be a good idea. Might not always want to pay the full playset, but maybe 3 copies are fine.
I know it's petty, but I just want to say that I have never really thought that much of Fatal Push. I play Rock, and I've grudgingly played two copies of it lately and have regretted drawing it more often than I have wanted another copy. At least it can be pitched to Liliana of the Veil or Collective Brutality.
The best result I've ever had with Fulminator Mage was against Jund and I've never had any luck with Blood Moon.
I play Fulminator Mage in the Rock and my failed efforts with Blood Moon were in old-school, Mardu-colors Burn. I've had Moon in the side-board in Affinity but I do not recall even using it there.
No one should really put much stock in my ramblings I will freely admit, but I just can't help posting something once in a while.
I've been testing Blood Moon quite a bit and didn't like it that much against Titanshift, probably the least among all ramp decks. It stops Valakut but they still have Titan which is not easy to deal with especially with Blood Moon out. I had plenty of games against Titanshift with turn 3 Blood Moon and I still lost most of them to the Titan because I didn't draw removal or I did but couldn't cast it because of Blood Moon. These are just my experiences thought so I guess to each its own.
Exactly, often you draw your BM and in situations where you hurt yourself equally as bad as Valakut. Its ok if the Valakut player has no basic forest in play, but as soon as the opponent has at least one, many topdecks are life ones (including Sakura and Pact to search for Sakura, to get to 2 green basics and start casting titans). As soon as we land Blood Moon we either have to have the basics or we have to draw them, which doesn't sound great to me.
I've been testing Blood Moon quite a bit and didn't like it that much against Titanshift, probably the least among all ramp decks. It stops Valakut but they still have Titan which is not easy to deal with especially with Blood Moon out. I had plenty of games against Titanshift with turn 3 Blood Moon and I still lost most of them to the Titan because I didn't draw removal or I did but couldn't cast it because of Blood Moon. These are just my experiences thought so I guess to each its own.
That said if you want to be have game against big mana decks as much as possible Blood Moon backed up by fast clock (Goblin Rabblemaster preferably), including Titanshift, is your best bet. Some play Fulminator Mage but I've never really liked it against these decks because it's slow and quite inifficient unless you paired it with Surgical Extraction. I do think thought that Fulminator Mage is great against control. Not just to kill their manlands but also and mostly to screw and them (a bit) and slow down their board development since control decks are pretty mana hungry.
This is my experience as well. Blood Moon has only been a clear answer to one or two decks, and TitanShift/BreachTitan is not one of them...
So I have played a lot of both Jund and Titanshift. I still have Blood Moon currently in my side (currently as a 2:1 Fulminator:Blood Moon split because that is what I own) and while I think it's worth a slot, it's a total fallacy to think it shuts down Scapeshift. When I played Titanshift I actually loved Blood Moon because you'd just wait for the turn before you were about to combo off and then Nature's Claim the Blood Moon on end step, untap and bing, nbd. That said, I've liked it a lot of the various Tron matchups because they have far fewer ways to get rid of it cheaply and we have the clock to back up the Blood Moon if you are running Rabblemasters (which a this point I think is required given the current metagame). Bear in mind Tron variants equal almost 8-10% of the metagame where as Titanshift is at 3-4%.
Humans have really pushed the metagame back around to feeling like Jund isn't a really expensive bad option to take to an event. Thank goodness we have non-collected company creature based tribal decks back. Feels great. That being said, I am seeing a rise in Blue Moon Through the Breach and if it keeps up, that hasn't felt like a great matchup (but it's better than what the other matchups have been).
So I have played a lot of both Jund and Titanshift. I still have Blood Moon currently in my side (currently as a 2:1 Fulminator:Blood Moon split because that is what I own) and while I think it's worth a slot, it's a total fallacy to think it shuts down Scapeshift. When I played Titanshift I actually loved Blood Moon because you'd just wait for the turn before you were about to combo off and then Nature's Claim the Blood Moon on end step, untap and bing, nbd. That said, I've liked it a lot of the various Tron matchups because they have far fewer ways to get rid of it cheaply and we have the clock to back up the Blood Moon if you are running Rabblemasters (which a this point I think is required given the current metagame). Bear in mind Tron variants equal almost 8-10% of the metagame where as Titanshift is at 3-4%.
Humans have really pushed the metagame back around to feeling like Jund isn't a really expensive bad option to take to an event. Thank goodness we have non-collected company creature based tribal decks back. Feels great. That being said, I am seeing a rise in Blue Moon Through the Breach and if it keeps up, that hasn't felt like a great matchup (but it's better than what the other matchups have been).
Yeah I agree with the Valakut issue. I am not sure on Rabblemasters though. If you look at the metagame, and just like you also said, creature based decks are having a comeback. Tron and Valakut are on the fall actually. Thats why I think Rabblemaster is probably the best choice from last week, but not the best choice this or next week. I also think that Blood Moon is not what we want right now. Against which matchups do we need it? Its not great vs. Big Mana and that probably our biggest target for it in the first place. And this is all not considering the fact that we are still a 3 colour deck and BM is actually sometimes used against us.
I could make one made several for the LGS's and personal playtesting groups
Might be a good idea, lets start one: https://discord.gg/MFjxuC
Maybe I'm just overly partial to the card since it's the main reason I play both grixis and jund to such a high extent. I would agree we have better option after sb but, I just feel siding out kcommand is a big mistake since it provides such a useful bonus in 2 dmg and discard. Scooze, CB, Kcommand are honestly the main reason I feel comfortable not having any other form of life gain in jund. My real problem is truthfully Bob half the time I want him in against burn and sometimes I dont. Usually depends on how the first match goes against the burn deck. Since playing Rabble Jund I have yet to play it so can't confirm how I feel as of lately.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Without question, immediatly get all Bobs out of the way. Believe me, we don't want to have this card against Burn. Don't think about it any longer, just get rid of him and call it a day. Same goes for Thoughtseize as well.
We got a new article from Jadine Klomparens, where she explains her new take on Jund for the upcoming invitational.
Key points to note:
1. I never like to just concede matchups, or rather to ignore them. For instance, big mana decks... Through testing on mtgo I have found that these decks are still prevalent which is why I want a plan. Which leads into my second point.
2. Blood Moon. I love me some free wins. This card beats valakut all on its own and is helpful vs tron. I disagree when she says that fulminator is better since its good vs jeskai, but the thing is that blood moon is good there too!
3. Abrupt Decay. She is interested in lowering her curve and running 4 bolts. Therefore, cuts had to be made. I don't think 4 bolts is where I'd like to be and the reason is mainly Death Shadow, delve creatures and Thought Knot Seer. Decay sucks vs eldrazi but can still destroy expedition maps (when on the play) and random stuff like chalices, etc, but the reason why I like Decay is because it offers versatility. I want to be able to destroy Cranial Platings, or Death Shadow (withour fear of them holding up a one mana counter for it), Spreading Seas, etc etc
Been playing a good amount on modo, feeling pretty good about my chances for GP OKC... Been trying a list with Hazoret and Kitesail Freebooter (yes, Kitesail) and have 4-1'd three leagues, my losses have been to decks like UR through the breach and tron
Chandra is really bad vs. Creature based strategies, can't see her at all in the current meta. She is also weak vs. Big Mana. I would only want her against Control and Midrange mirrors maybe, but thats about it.
I think you are really overestimating BM here. BM does not win the game vs. Valakut. It helps and slows them down, but its not an autowin.
4 Bolts can be too much, but 3 seems good right now. I personally was unimpressed with Decay a while now and decided to cut down to 1 a few days ago. The things you are mentioning are just not that present anymore. I think killing Maps with Decay is close to irrelevant, given the fact that it is easy to play around, and not doing much in the first place. I would totally side out decay vs. Eldrazi Tron. Chalice is also not that harmful for us and IDK if they will have it against us postboard. And if they have it, we still got KCommand, which I would keep over decay anytime. Spreading Seas is an ok reason for Decay, but this is only relevant for UW Control, which again is not that present anymore. Merfolk is a good matchup generally. Against Death Shadow I also side out decays actually. So all in all I don't think that decay is that great atm and going down to 1 is perfectly the right thing to do.
In regards to Abrupt Decay: Spreading Seas, map were just an example of versatility... I could have mentioned any card with CC < 3 to make my point. It doesn't matter if these are not popular, in a modern tournament you will often play 10 different archetypes and its hard to be prepared for everything, which is why I prefer to run catchall cards such as decay, pulse, k command... I think you get where I'm getting at.
Jund can be built in so many different ways, my preference is to be as versatile as possible.
Remember, a Jack of all trades is a Master of none.
Sleeving up 2 Abrupt Decay, 2 KCommands, 1 Pulse, having Diverse Liliana numbers, and a Chandra to boot may be the right call at a local FNM, but not for the upcoming Invitational. The whole article is about metagaming for decks that will be prominent at this one tournament.
This doesn't mean we should consider her word to be final, but to take the suggestions into consideration when building for our own tourney. Jund will never have a strict 75, or further, probably even an strict 60.
There can be multiple right decisions on what's played, but when it comes down to it, it all comes down to what you're against and how we crush em
Its totally fine to do so, if its your preference. But versatility is a double edged sword in my opinion. While being applicable in many cases, in specific cases they are often times too inefficient. Best examples are the Charms. Jund Charm, Golgari Charm and Rakdos Charm are all versatile spells, but in specific cases almost always too costly or too bad. For me, exactly that has been in regards for Decay. If I see that every other game I side them out, I am pretty much in alert that one copy at least has to go.
I know it's petty, but I just want to say that I have never really thought that much of Fatal Push. I play Rock, and I've grudgingly played two copies of it lately and have regretted drawing it more often than I have wanted another copy. At least it can be pitched to Liliana of the Veil or Collective Brutality.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I play Fulminator Mage in the Rock and my failed efforts with Blood Moon were in old-school, Mardu-colors Burn. I've had Moon in the side-board in Affinity but I do not recall even using it there.
No one should really put much stock in my ramblings I will freely admit, but I just can't help posting something once in a while.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Exactly, often you draw your BM and in situations where you hurt yourself equally as bad as Valakut. Its ok if the Valakut player has no basic forest in play, but as soon as the opponent has at least one, many topdecks are life ones (including Sakura and Pact to search for Sakura, to get to 2 green basics and start casting titans). As soon as we land Blood Moon we either have to have the basics or we have to draw them, which doesn't sound great to me.
This is my experience as well. Blood Moon has only been a clear answer to one or two decks, and TitanShift/BreachTitan is not one of them...
Humans have really pushed the metagame back around to feeling like Jund isn't a really expensive bad option to take to an event. Thank goodness we have non-collected company creature based tribal decks back. Feels great. That being said, I am seeing a rise in Blue Moon Through the Breach and if it keeps up, that hasn't felt like a great matchup (but it's better than what the other matchups have been).
Yeah I agree with the Valakut issue. I am not sure on Rabblemasters though. If you look at the metagame, and just like you also said, creature based decks are having a comeback. Tron and Valakut are on the fall actually. Thats why I think Rabblemaster is probably the best choice from last week, but not the best choice this or next week. I also think that Blood Moon is not what we want right now. Against which matchups do we need it? Its not great vs. Big Mana and that probably our biggest target for it in the first place. And this is all not considering the fact that we are still a 3 colour deck and BM is actually sometimes used against us.