This is hilarious. It wasn't even a week ago that I was considering dropping red for blue for a GB/x deck and Todd Stevens basically proposed what I was thinking about.
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
This is hilarious. It wasn't even a week ago that I was considering dropping red for blue for a GB/x deck and Todd Stevens basically proposed what I was thinking about.
You need to run 4 LoTV and a couple of Damnation in the SB for sure in sultai. But Stubborn denial and Rejection/Stroke as well as Snapcaster seems really interesting.
This is hilarious. It wasn't even a week ago that I was considering dropping red for blue for a GB/x deck and Todd Stevens basically proposed what I was thinking about.
Actually, can you share the list, not able to see it without premium.
Not sure how it compares to Stevens' list though (can't see it).
You'll get used to his opinions looking like statements of fact. Just give it some time.
My bad for using proven lists to justify good and bad deck building...
If someone said, "let me try a jund list without tarmogoyf" you can bet I'll state it like a fact that it's a bad idea.
I mean, when people started trying out Blood Moon and Rabble's I didn't reject the idea, especially when Jadine had some positive results with the deck and wrote a great article, justifications and her thought process on it
Todd wrote this horrible fluff piece, almost sounding like he had to write something the night before.
I love Todd's articles and him as a player---but lets face facts, Sultai isn't viable in modern in it's current iteration...I don't feel like that should be some statement that should be taken so sensitively.
I also think Jund could be on it's way to a bump in shares, I'm noticing more go wide creature decks in paper and mtgo. I think if a GP were to happen, and Reid Duke wasn't on the Storm train, he'd jam Jund.
I played a lot of Junk this year, and I honestly still can't love it like Jund, I have no attachment to it like this deck. I was jamming some Geist Jeskai on mtgo, and it just made me miss Jund if I'm going with such a fair deck.
I've been too busy to test the new Jund builds, but I literally just had my foil blood moon and foil Rabbles arrive in the mail, so I'm excited to jam some games.
My biggest concerns with a Sultai version (although I'd love to jam it just for fun, because I love the colour combination) is that it basically cannot go wide which still makes LoTV very strong against us. Second, if you add counters and snappys, I feel like Sultai would just be more vulnerable and less efficient than Grixis DS. Yes you don't hit your own life totals, but tbh I feel green cards like Goyf and Decay nowadays get outclassed.
So I would not find arguments for running sultai over Grixis DS unfortunately. Grixis DS basically does everything better.
If the pro scene just relied on proven lists, how would new stuff ever come out? People can also play a deck built for a specific metagame that does great but not as well for a different place or time. It's like if you don't see it on a list, you can't grasp how it could possibly be any good. In any case, it's still just an opinion.
Played three events so far and I've gone 3-0, 4-0, and 3-1 at the more competitive shops around my state. Here's my list for Regionals this weekend! Enjoy, guys.
What do you think about playing Mishra's Bauble mainboard? It should increase consistency because now we'd be playing a 56 card deck, its another 0 mana hit for Dark Confidant that still nets you a real card, it buffs our Goyfs and makes Grim Flayers more consistent if you're playing any. Sure, there are some minor downsides(card delay, occasionally harder to make correct mulligan decisions mostly) but on the whole it seems solid.
What do you think about playing Mishra's Bauble mainboard? It should increase consistency because now we'd be playing a 56 card deck, its another 0 mana hit for Dark Confidant that still nets you a real card, it buffs our Goyfs and makes Grim Flayers more consistent if you're playing any. Sure, there are some minor downsides(card delay, occasionally harder to make correct mulligan decisions mostly) but on the whole it seems solid.
Why stop there? Let's play Jund Death's Shadow or even 5-color!
Played three events so far and I've gone 3-0, 4-0, and 3-1 at the more competitive shops around my state. Here's my list for Regionals this weekend! Enjoy, guys.
If you have any questions about the list or anything I'll be happy to fire back with card choices n stuff.
I was playing a very similar 60 to yours yesterday afternoon and won every single game. Rabblemasters trading with Tasigurs felt good, and blood moon straight up won two or three games alone.
I've never liked Fulminator Mage, been liking Blood Moon in this meta. Hope the regionals go well!
What do you think about playing Mishra's Bauble mainboard? It should increase consistency because now we'd be playing a 56 card deck, its another 0 mana hit for Dark Confidant that still nets you a real card, it buffs our Goyfs and makes Grim Flayers more consistent if you're playing any. Sure, there are some minor downsides(card delay, occasionally harder to make correct mulligan decisions mostly) but on the whole it seems solid.
Technically its not reducing our deck down to a 56 deck. In fact, Bauble often is a terrible topdeck, given the fact that you don't cantrip right away. And sometimes you want a threat or have sorcery speed removals as only outs (LoTV, Pulse etc).
What exactly makes the Titanshift matchup so bad? I've never played against that deck, its missing from my local meta as far as I can tell. Hand disruption(TS + LotV and maybe even CB from SB) should buy some time before they can fire off a Scapeshift and they don't seem to have a lot of an early board presence. Are they just way more resilient/redundant than I'm giving them credit for?
What exactly makes the Titanshift matchup so bad? I've never played against that deck, its missing from my local meta as far as I can tell. Hand disruption(TS + LotV and maybe even CB from SB) should buy some time before they can fire off a Scapeshift and they don't seem to have a lot of an early board presence. Are they just way more resilient/redundant than I'm giving them credit for?
The top decks Titanshift has is just always gas. Every land that can't be stripped via Thoughtseize or Inquisition is one land closer to a "bolt" from Valakut and every other ramp spell brings them closer to activating Valakut. Not to mention when they top deck Hour of Promise or the 8-10 other win con spells they might run in the deck makes it challenging. It gets better post board, and matchups like Titanshift is why Blood Moon is so strong in the main deck of Jund nowadays but it's still tough for Jund to power through.
What exactly makes the Titanshift matchup so bad? I've never played against that deck, its missing from my local meta as far as I can tell. Hand disruption(TS + LotV and maybe even CB from SB) should buy some time before they can fire off a Scapeshift and they don't seem to have a lot of an early board presence. Are they just way more resilient/redundant than I'm giving them credit for?
Willy Edel described it like this: Discard is generally not the best against one-card combo decks. Essentially Scapeshift is a one card combo deck. And even if they don't Scapeshift us, what are we gonna do about simple landdrops and Titan triggers? You can't do anything about them. The problem is that we are way to slow to finish them off before they destroy us either within one turn or destroy our board and then consistantly hit us for a bunch of dmg through their landdrops. If Valakut gets online, basically every card in their deck turns into a free lightning bolt. Thats pretty consistant and redundant. If you try to Fulminator them, they simply play around it and don't play Valakut until they have to.
Half of our deck is basically blanked, since no removal is good here basically. Yeah terminate on titan is fine, but dmg is already dealt through his trigger alone. Discard and clock is really the best thing we have, but discard is not that great (you loose to topdecks) and our clock is not the biggest.
So all in all the matchup is definitely bad for us, although not as bad as tron variants obviously.
Beat Bant Company, Ponza and Elves. Lost against burn
The new Jund deck feels awful against burn, I don't think I'm the only one to feel that way. The burn player helixed and seared my 2x Rabblemasters and I just had no pressure game 1 from that. Burn is also a bad meta call, but the deck will always be overrepresented due to it's price and ease of play.
I can't really comment on tonights Goblins being good or not, and no decks fit the need to play Moon. I do know that I've never been impressed with Fulminator mages, I've always felt it was a horrible card in modern that I felt forced to play.
I just junded people out. Grim Lavamancer was a spicy replacement for 1x bolt, and honestly, he singlehandedly dismantled these creature decks
Sometimes I really struggle with deciding on whether to play boardwipes or not, Reid Duke doesn't like it. I certainly was very happy with no damnation, it's only great against E-Tron in this meta.
I just one for one'd people with Bob being the draw engine. Maybe anger would be better with dredge, voices and finks in the meta.
The new Jund deck feels awful against burn, I don't think I'm the only one to feel that way. The burn player helixed and seared my 2x Rabblemasters and I just had no pressure game 1 from that. Burn is also a bad meta call, but the deck will always be overrepresented due to it's price and ease of play.
Why do you think so? I think your 75 is perfectly fine for beating Burn. Of course it can be unwinnable if they have the nuts and you dont draw early IoK/CB + Tarmogoyf to block their dudes.
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I don't see how you can live in an Eldrazi world without Terminate or Path to Exile, perhaps the SB Ceremonious Rejections helps in that matchup, but that still leaves Gurmag Angler and Primeval Titan out there to run free.
The sultai list looked like crap and it was just a bad fluff piece by him.
Sultai is not playable without without some kinda of terminate like removal.
Facebook has been positively glowing the the Rabblemaster Moon build, so much so I'm gonna try it on mtgo too.
Unplayable seems a little harsh. The 74 person event I went to this last weekend was won by a Sultai list:
http://f2fseries.facetofacegames.com/saskatoon-open-coverage-october-28th-2017/
Not sure how it compares to Stevens' list though (can't see it).
You need to run 4 LoTV and a couple of Damnation in the SB for sure in sultai. But Stubborn denial and Rejection/Stroke as well as Snapcaster seems really interesting.
Actually, can you share the list, not able to see it without premium.
It wasn't an interesting or very innovative list, if that helps you feel better
You'll get used to his opinions looking like statements of fact. Just give it some time.
My bad for using proven lists to justify good and bad deck building...
If someone said, "let me try a jund list without tarmogoyf" you can bet I'll state it like a fact that it's a bad idea.
I mean, when people started trying out Blood Moon and Rabble's I didn't reject the idea, especially when Jadine had some positive results with the deck and wrote a great article, justifications and her thought process on it
Todd wrote this horrible fluff piece, almost sounding like he had to write something the night before.
I love Todd's articles and him as a player---but lets face facts, Sultai isn't viable in modern in it's current iteration...I don't feel like that should be some statement that should be taken so sensitively.
I also think Jund could be on it's way to a bump in shares, I'm noticing more go wide creature decks in paper and mtgo. I think if a GP were to happen, and Reid Duke wasn't on the Storm train, he'd jam Jund.
I played a lot of Junk this year, and I honestly still can't love it like Jund, I have no attachment to it like this deck. I was jamming some Geist Jeskai on mtgo, and it just made me miss Jund if I'm going with such a fair deck.
I've been too busy to test the new Jund builds, but I literally just had my foil blood moon and foil Rabbles arrive in the mail, so I'm excited to jam some games.
So I would not find arguments for running sultai over Grixis DS unfortunately. Grixis DS basically does everything better.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jund-11317/
If you have any questions about the list or anything I'll be happy to fire back with card choices n stuff.
Why stop there? Let's play Jund Death's Shadow or even 5-color!
I was playing a very similar 60 to yours yesterday afternoon and won every single game. Rabblemasters trading with Tasigurs felt good, and blood moon straight up won two or three games alone.
I've never liked Fulminator Mage, been liking Blood Moon in this meta. Hope the regionals go well!
Technically its not reducing our deck down to a 56 deck. In fact, Bauble often is a terrible topdeck, given the fact that you don't cantrip right away. And sometimes you want a threat or have sorcery speed removals as only outs (LoTV, Pulse etc).
The top decks Titanshift has is just always gas. Every land that can't be stripped via Thoughtseize or Inquisition is one land closer to a "bolt" from Valakut and every other ramp spell brings them closer to activating Valakut. Not to mention when they top deck Hour of Promise or the 8-10 other win con spells they might run in the deck makes it challenging. It gets better post board, and matchups like Titanshift is why Blood Moon is so strong in the main deck of Jund nowadays but it's still tough for Jund to power through.
Willy Edel described it like this: Discard is generally not the best against one-card combo decks. Essentially Scapeshift is a one card combo deck. And even if they don't Scapeshift us, what are we gonna do about simple landdrops and Titan triggers? You can't do anything about them. The problem is that we are way to slow to finish them off before they destroy us either within one turn or destroy our board and then consistantly hit us for a bunch of dmg through their landdrops. If Valakut gets online, basically every card in their deck turns into a free lightning bolt. Thats pretty consistant and redundant. If you try to Fulminator them, they simply play around it and don't play Valakut until they have to.
Half of our deck is basically blanked, since no removal is good here basically. Yeah terminate on titan is fine, but dmg is already dealt through his trigger alone. Discard and clock is really the best thing we have, but discard is not that great (you loose to topdecks) and our clock is not the biggest.
So all in all the matchup is definitely bad for us, although not as bad as tron variants obviously.
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Blood Crypt
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Raging Ravine
2x Swamp
2x Forest
Creature (14)
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
3x Fatal Push
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Terminate
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Blood Moon
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Collective Brutality
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Kozilek's Return
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Beat Bant Company, Ponza and Elves. Lost against burn
The new Jund deck feels awful against burn, I don't think I'm the only one to feel that way. The burn player helixed and seared my 2x Rabblemasters and I just had no pressure game 1 from that. Burn is also a bad meta call, but the deck will always be overrepresented due to it's price and ease of play.
I can't really comment on tonights Goblins being good or not, and no decks fit the need to play Moon. I do know that I've never been impressed with Fulminator mages, I've always felt it was a horrible card in modern that I felt forced to play.
I just junded people out. Grim Lavamancer was a spicy replacement for 1x bolt, and honestly, he singlehandedly dismantled these creature decks
Sometimes I really struggle with deciding on whether to play boardwipes or not, Reid Duke doesn't like it. I certainly was very happy with no damnation, it's only great against E-Tron in this meta.
I just one for one'd people with Bob being the draw engine. Maybe anger would be better with dredge, voices and finks in the meta.
Why do you think so? I think your 75 is perfectly fine for beating Burn. Of course it can be unwinnable if they have the nuts and you dont draw early IoK/CB + Tarmogoyf to block their dudes.