Blood Moon is not actually included in my sideboard for insta-win against Tron or big mana decks. Slowing down their decks while we have a good clock is enough to pin them down. I think Fulminator Mage is not enough. Blood Moon shuts down also Valakut decks. For sideboarding Blood Moons, I actually not looking for a game winner. Blood Moon only helps us close out games. We play nonbasics, but we still have basic lands and we are smart enough to make plays that gets around Blood Moon. C'mon guys, we always say that our wins are hard earned. I have the guts to play Blood Moon because I know how to play around with it.
Death's Shadow variants are greedy with manabase. Tron variants does have only 1-2 basic lands (1 Forest for Gx Tron decks and 2 Wastes for Eldrazi Tron decks) which they cannot fetch easily by their own. Valakut decks have ramp but they only have Beast Within for interaction with Blood Moon.
You can't obviously use Blood Moon against UWx Control decks. That's why Fulminator Mage is still there.
The angle of attack is slight different because we are crippling down their mana sources. But still it forces the opponents to play "fair" games when there's Blood Moon.
Again, we are smart enough to play around our own Blood Moon.
The theory that you are saying is luck dependent. Pointing out chances of screwing yourself with Blood Moon is actually depends on how you will line up your plays against the opponent. Instead, I suggest to better dissect the opposing decks' ability to survive against the enchantment before writing it off.
As I reiterate, Eldrazi Tron does have an Expedition Map to fetch a Waste in their deck. Less than 7% of chance to draw into it. When Blood Moon is on, chances are, most of the time they can't cast Thought-Knot Seers and Smashers at all. Big spells like All is Dust and Karn are way too long to cast, which you can pluck them away with discard. Valakut decks does not have enough interaction for Blood Moon. Death Shadow variants can be caught off-guard. They want to get their life total low to slam down a Death Shadow so they will fetch-shock themselves. And when they will try to adjust by fetching early basics they will be slower and less aggressive.
The theory that you are saying is luck dependent. Pointing out chances of screwing yourself with Blood Moon is actually depends on how you will line up your plays against the opponent. Instead, I suggest to better dissect the opposing decks' ability to survive against the enchantment before writing it off.
As I reiterate, Eldrazi Tron does have an Expedition Map to fetch a Waste in their deck. Less than 7% of chance to draw into it. When Blood Moon is on, chances are, most of the time they can't cast Thought-Knot Seers and Smashers at all. Big spells like All is Dust and Karn are way too long to cast, which you can pluck them away with discard. Valakut decks does not have enough interaction for Blood Moon. Death Shadow variants can be caught off-guard. They want to get their life total low to slam down a Death Shadow so they will fetch-shock themselves. And when they will try to adjust by fetching early basics they will be slower and less aggressive.
Many of us have gone through a lot of testing with Blood Moon. The minute E-Tron players get a whiff of Blood Moon in the room, they all go back to playing some number of Mind Stone main deck and/or aggressively search for their basic Waste, which leaves you with 4 pretty crappy cards. Keep in mind, that the latter half of that comment is true regardless of what most E-Tron players run main deck so that's not even a decision they have to make as far as metagame concerns go. Even without mana acceleration they get from Eldrazi Temple or the UrzaTron, they just own us with All is Dust, Karn Liberated, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon or any number of their ridiculous value-town creatures. There's only so many things we can kill. I'm starting to see several E-Tron players main deck Kozilek, the Great Distortion ffs. The problem is that their top decks are just generally better than ours. So in a world where you're praying to go Thoughtseize > Tarmogoyf > Blood Moon, you still have to hope they can't work through it to kill you, which is fairly easy for most players if they're thinking about it. This is on top of just hurting our own plays so much. You pretty much have to drop most of your dual lands, especially your man-lands, while playing more fetch lands and basic lands. It's great when you get all the pieces together and it works, but then when it doesn't, oh my God! It's just bad. You're generally better off playing a better Blood Moon deck, which are largely two-color decks.
I really don't know why everyone gets so hopeful about Bloodbraid Elf for every B&R announcement. They're not bringing it back. If the format gets to the point where bringing it back is a possibility, I'm pretty sure they'll ban something else first. The only way I see the Elf making a comeback is that the format gets so wide open that they can't ban enough things without making a ton of sadfaces or Modern pretty much becomes Legacy. They have basically told us this (the first part about banning anyway).
Blood Moon is not actually included in my sideboard for insta-win against Tron or big mana decks. Slowing down their decks while we have a good clock is enough to pin them down. I think Fulminator Mage is not enough. Blood Moon shuts down also Valakut decks. For sideboarding Blood Moons, I actually not looking for a game winner. Blood Moon only helps us close out games. We play nonbasics, but we still have basic lands and we are smart enough to make plays that gets around Blood Moon. C'mon guys, we always say that our wins are hard earned. I have the guts to play Blood Moon because I know how to play around with it.
Death's Shadow variants are greedy with manabase. Tron variants does have only 1-2 basic lands (1 Forest for Gx Tron decks and 2 Wastes for Eldrazi Tron decks) which they cannot fetch easily by their own. Valakut decks have ramp but they only have Beast Within for interaction with Blood Moon.
You can't obviously use Blood Moon against UWx Control decks. That's why Fulminator Mage is still there.
The angle of attack is slight different because we are crippling down their mana sources. But still it forces the opponents to play "fair" games when there's Blood Moon.
Again, we are smart enough to play around our own Blood Moon.
I'm a Titanshift player. I have nature's claim, rec sage (fetchable w pact), beast within, fracturing gust, destructive revelry, engineered explosives (with prismatic omen), all of which can hit blood moon
Blood Moon shuts down also Valakut decks. We play nonbasics, but we still have basic lands and we are smart enough to make plays that gets around Blood Moon. C'mon guys, we always say that our wins are hard earned. I have the guts to play Blood Moon because I know how to play around with it.
Like was mentioned before, BM does not shut down Valakut decks at all or in any near way. If they have a single basic forest on the field, they can easily play any ramp spell finding a second forest and then jamming Titans/Baloths. They can even Pact for a Sakura, sac it end of turn and pay for the pact to have 2 basic forests. I played BM against Valakut, it does not do enough in my point of view. And besides all this, like mentioned, they can just destroy it convenietly.
Next, I am repeating myself, but what you are considering playing around BM, is only what I think having luck to a certain extend. When you have a hand containing something like a Blackcliff, Tomb and Blood Crypt, I really don't know what you want to play around here. You arguing with the assumption that you will have your basics in time, or at least the fetches for it. In reality this is not always the case. It is in fact very draw dependant. What is the play around plan here? Mulliganing (which does feel bad) or not playing BM at all (having a dead card in hand). In the latter case, sometimes you find the basics you need and can play BM on turn 3, sure, but sometimes you find them later in the game, where it could be too late to cast it. And sometimes you just never find the basics. Against decks like Tron or Valakut, I think you really want Raging Ravine as a clock. You are loosing that one through BM as well, to mention it.
The theory that you are saying is luck dependent. Pointing out chances of screwing yourself with Blood Moon is actually depends on how you will line up your plays against the opponent. Instead, I suggest to better dissect the opposing decks' ability to survive against the enchantment before writing it off.
As I reiterate, Eldrazi Tron does have an Expedition Map to fetch a Waste in their deck. Less than 7% of chance to draw into it. When Blood Moon is on, chances are, most of the time they can't cast Thought-Knot Seers and Smashers at all. Big spells like All is Dust and Karn are way too long to cast, which you can pluck them away with discard. Valakut decks does not have enough interaction for Blood Moon. Death Shadow variants can be caught off-guard. They want to get their life total low to slam down a Death Shadow so they will fetch-shock themselves. And when they will try to adjust by fetching early basics they will be slower and less aggressive.
We have no option to find lands except for fetchlands. So, tell me, what is the line, if it just means you got to draw your fetches or basics? And how is it not only luck dependant whether BM in your hand will be a dead card or a card you can play? It all depends only on whether you have basics or not. If you haven't, then BM is a dead card until you find your basics.
I played BM quite a bit in the past, and originally I had similar opinions like you have. But experience showed me otherwise. Believe me, I am not writing it off here due to plain theorycrafting, I played it in the past, and I am arguing based on experience.
Like was mentioned before, BM does not shut down Valakut decks at all or in any near way.
So Blood Moon blanks their Valakuts and Scapeshifts, so their only maindeck threats are some Primeval Titans that can get them some basic lands, that we can kill with terminate/Liliana...? I would say that's pretty darn crippling...
Like was mentioned before, BM does not shut down Valakut decks at all or in any near way.
So Blood Moon blanks their Valakuts and Scapeshifts, so their only maindeck threats are some Primeval Titans that can get them some basic lands, that we can kill with terminate/Liliana...? I would say that's pretty darn crippling...
And besides all this, like mentioned, they can just destroy it convenietly.
You mean after side? I don't think they have any way of getting rid of it maindeck.
Ofc after sb. I doubt you would play blood moon maindeck. And after sb there will be more threats than only titans, so dunno why it matters that they cant remove it preboard or be more susceptible to it preboard.
Ofc after sb. I doubt you would play blood moon maindeck. And after sb there will be more threats than only titans, so dunno why it matters that they cant remove it preboard or be more susceptible to it preboard.
Diluting your overall strategy, and weakening your ability to topdeck for Blood Moon is just not worth it. If you want to have a better matchup against ETron and Valakut play a different deck.
Ofc after sb. I doubt you would play blood moon maindeck. And after sb there will be more threats than only titans, so dunno why it matters that they cant remove it preboard or be more susceptible to it preboard.
Even if the actual meta game is pretty hard for Jund, I hope to make Day 2 and go as far as possible (I just have 1 Bye).
I'll write my report newt Monday, when I'll be back in France.
Went 4-0-1 at tonights FNM, finishing at second place.
Games:
2-0 against RW Prison
2-1 against Burn
1-1 against UW Control
2-0 against Kiki Chord
2-1 against Burn
Games went pretty flawless. Unusual things were: playing only 23 lands (which I like atm), Thrun, the Last Troll in the SB. Thrun is my way to handle Control matchups, which are quite present lately and are generally tough matchups. Second Pulse in the SB was great, as for GY hate I am currently on 3 x Spellbomb.
I went 5-0 with this list at my FNM. (I played x2 Eldrazi Tron, x1 Grixis Shadow, Counters Company and U/W Control)
I was sceptical on Hazoret but she won me every game I had her out against Eldrazi Tron and GDS. she is a stone wall for a lot of decks and was really impressed with her. I also think 23 lands is the way to go for Jund. (didn't feel like I was flooding as often but could just be placebo)
I might cut 1 nihil spellbomb in the side but not sure what to put in. I've given up on Fulminator Mage and never looked back. Much rather just scoop to OG Tron but tune the main and side for the Eldrazi Tron match which is MUCH more winnable.
Also I'm in the process of fully foiling out my Jund deck (should be done by the end of the month) will post when finished!
Went 4-0-1 at tonights FNM, finishing at second place.
Games:
2-0 against RW Prison
Nice result! How do you handle RW Prison? I am currently 0-4 in games against it (though played with Abzan). I am a bit torn on whether keep discard in or not..
Went 4-0-1 at tonights FNM, finishing at second place.
Games:
2-0 against RW Prison
Nice result! How do you handle RW Prison? I am currently 0-4 in games against it (though played with Abzan). I am a bit torn on whether keep discard in or not..
What does your land base look like with 23 lands?
Well, I think since they usually don't play Bridges its just getting a clock online early and hit them with discard. I would keep discard, although they will bring in Leyline. I think its a good idea to cut IOKs, since you don't hit relevant things with them (If you play around BM manually with basics). That way you leverage the Leyline hate to a certain extend.
Death's Shadow variants are greedy with manabase. Tron variants does have only 1-2 basic lands (1 Forest for Gx Tron decks and 2 Wastes for Eldrazi Tron decks) which they cannot fetch easily by their own. Valakut decks have ramp but they only have Beast Within for interaction with Blood Moon.
You can't obviously use Blood Moon against UWx Control decks. That's why Fulminator Mage is still there.
The angle of attack is slight different because we are crippling down their mana sources. But still it forces the opponents to play "fair" games when there's Blood Moon.
Again, we are smart enough to play around our own Blood Moon.
As I reiterate, Eldrazi Tron does have an Expedition Map to fetch a Waste in their deck. Less than 7% of chance to draw into it. When Blood Moon is on, chances are, most of the time they can't cast Thought-Knot Seers and Smashers at all. Big spells like All is Dust and Karn are way too long to cast, which you can pluck them away with discard. Valakut decks does not have enough interaction for Blood Moon. Death Shadow variants can be caught off-guard. They want to get their life total low to slam down a Death Shadow so they will fetch-shock themselves. And when they will try to adjust by fetching early basics they will be slower and less aggressive.
Many of us have gone through a lot of testing with Blood Moon. The minute E-Tron players get a whiff of Blood Moon in the room, they all go back to playing some number of Mind Stone main deck and/or aggressively search for their basic Waste, which leaves you with 4 pretty crappy cards. Keep in mind, that the latter half of that comment is true regardless of what most E-Tron players run main deck so that's not even a decision they have to make as far as metagame concerns go. Even without mana acceleration they get from Eldrazi Temple or the UrzaTron, they just own us with All is Dust, Karn Liberated, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon or any number of their ridiculous value-town creatures. There's only so many things we can kill. I'm starting to see several E-Tron players main deck Kozilek, the Great Distortion ffs. The problem is that their top decks are just generally better than ours. So in a world where you're praying to go Thoughtseize > Tarmogoyf > Blood Moon, you still have to hope they can't work through it to kill you, which is fairly easy for most players if they're thinking about it. This is on top of just hurting our own plays so much. You pretty much have to drop most of your dual lands, especially your man-lands, while playing more fetch lands and basic lands. It's great when you get all the pieces together and it works, but then when it doesn't, oh my God! It's just bad. You're generally better off playing a better Blood Moon deck, which are largely two-color decks.
I'm a Titanshift player. I have nature's claim, rec sage (fetchable w pact), beast within, fracturing gust, destructive revelry, engineered explosives (with prismatic omen), all of which can hit blood moon
Like was mentioned before, BM does not shut down Valakut decks at all or in any near way. If they have a single basic forest on the field, they can easily play any ramp spell finding a second forest and then jamming Titans/Baloths. They can even Pact for a Sakura, sac it end of turn and pay for the pact to have 2 basic forests. I played BM against Valakut, it does not do enough in my point of view. And besides all this, like mentioned, they can just destroy it convenietly.
Next, I am repeating myself, but what you are considering playing around BM, is only what I think having luck to a certain extend. When you have a hand containing something like a Blackcliff, Tomb and Blood Crypt, I really don't know what you want to play around here. You arguing with the assumption that you will have your basics in time, or at least the fetches for it. In reality this is not always the case. It is in fact very draw dependant. What is the play around plan here? Mulliganing (which does feel bad) or not playing BM at all (having a dead card in hand). In the latter case, sometimes you find the basics you need and can play BM on turn 3, sure, but sometimes you find them later in the game, where it could be too late to cast it. And sometimes you just never find the basics. Against decks like Tron or Valakut, I think you really want Raging Ravine as a clock. You are loosing that one through BM as well, to mention it.
We have no option to find lands except for fetchlands. So, tell me, what is the line, if it just means you got to draw your fetches or basics? And how is it not only luck dependant whether BM in your hand will be a dead card or a card you can play? It all depends only on whether you have basics or not. If you haven't, then BM is a dead card until you find your basics.
I played BM quite a bit in the past, and originally I had similar opinions like you have. But experience showed me otherwise. Believe me, I am not writing it off here due to plain theorycrafting, I played it in the past, and I am arguing based on experience.
So Blood Moon blanks their Valakuts and Scapeshifts, so their only maindeck threats are some Primeval Titans that can get them some basic lands, that we can kill with terminate/Liliana...? I would say that's pretty darn crippling...
You mean after side? I don't think they have any way of getting rid of it maindeck.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Ofc after sb. I doubt you would play blood moon maindeck. And after sb there will be more threats than only titans, so dunno why it matters that they cant remove it preboard or be more susceptible to it preboard.
Blood Moon maindeck can work in jund, but requires some tweaking:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13486
Winning game 1 matters a lot.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Well crap. Maybe that's where my plan fell apart! I should try winning game 1 more often.
I'm leaving Paris this afternoon to go to Birmingham for the GP in Modern with my Jund list.
I expect the following meta :
- Grixis DS
- Eldra Tron
- UW Controle
- Affinity
- Valakut
- Burn
- Mono-W Hatebears
- UR Storm
- Junk
I know I'll meet some GY strategies in high tables (players who didn't face GY hate in the previous games) like Dredge and Living End.
Here is the list I've been tested for the last weeks with my team mate :
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Liliana of the Veil
Instants
3 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
Sorceries
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
1 Shatterstorm
Even if the actual meta game is pretty hard for Jund, I hope to make Day 2 and go as far as possible (I just have 1 Bye).
I'll write my report newt Monday, when I'll be back in France.
See you guys !
Gus
List seems solid!
Good luck man! Jund 'em out :)!
Games:
2-0 against RW Prison
2-1 against Burn
1-1 against UW Control
2-0 against Kiki Chord
2-1 against Burn
Games went pretty flawless. Unusual things were: playing only 23 lands (which I like atm), Thrun, the Last Troll in the SB. Thrun is my way to handle Control matchups, which are quite present lately and are generally tough matchups. Second Pulse in the SB was great, as for GY hate I am currently on 3 x Spellbomb.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
4 Verdant Catacombs
Planeswalkers
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Olivia Voldaren
Spells
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Terminate
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
I went 5-0 with this list at my FNM. (I played x2 Eldrazi Tron, x1 Grixis Shadow, Counters Company and U/W Control)
I was sceptical on Hazoret but she won me every game I had her out against Eldrazi Tron and GDS. she is a stone wall for a lot of decks and was really impressed with her. I also think 23 lands is the way to go for Jund. (didn't feel like I was flooding as often but could just be placebo)
I might cut 1 nihil spellbomb in the side but not sure what to put in. I've given up on Fulminator Mage and never looked back. Much rather just scoop to OG Tron but tune the main and side for the Eldrazi Tron match which is MUCH more winnable.
Also I'm in the process of fully foiling out my Jund deck (should be done by the end of the month) will post when finished!
Nice result! How do you handle RW Prison? I am currently 0-4 in games against it (though played with Abzan). I am a bit torn on whether keep discard in or not..
What does your land base look like with 23 lands?
Well, I think since they usually don't play Bridges its just getting a clock online early and hit them with discard. I would keep discard, although they will bring in Leyline. I think its a good idea to cut IOKs, since you don't hit relevant things with them (If you play around BM manually with basics). That way you leverage the Leyline hate to a certain extend.
They play 23-24 without noble and 22 with noble.
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund