i firmly believe that mid-range jund is not tier 3 at all . more then likely it just dosent have the number of players needed to be tire 2 or 1 just because most people are playing jund deaths shadow. jund is still a solid deck and is really just a personal choice. im playing reid dukes jund and having a blast and doing well.
I think that a good jund player makes nice results with the deck now.
I don't know what cc4 drop is better than others now.
Olivia? Huntmaster? Kalitas? Chandra?
In all my local tournaments I was very unsatisfied by Chandra, Torch of Defiance. On the other hand, Chandra Pyromaster saved me a lot of matches.
So, with the new entry "Fatal Push", what cc4 can be the best?
@toffee
That's a tricky question mate...The "go to" 4c drop were Huntmaster for a long time...But i firmly believe that this is more of a meta call, i mean, if you expect heavy creatures and CoCo decks, Olivia it's just absurd..also Chandra TOD itsn't bad either, because she can grind them outr once the coast is clear...
I've been playing with 72/75 from Reid Duke's list, changed the board a bit for my LGS meta. My main deck it's the same as him and I must say, Olivia, Grim and even Chandra..they have been just great..and they steal games for us.
Also the removal package, never been so happy playing Classic Jund again.. I did not transiotioned to the DS version, so it's been quite hard..but Reid's showed how to play with Mid Jund again.
I think that a good jund player makes nice results with the deck now.
I don't know what cc4 drop is better than others now.
Olivia? Huntmaster? Kalitas? Chandra?
In all my local tournaments I was very unsatisfied by Chandra, Torch of Defiance. On the other hand, Chandra Pyromaster saved me a lot of matches.
So, with the new entry "Fatal Push", what cc4 can be the best?
I love the combination of Olivia and Huntmaster: They are both good against tokens, Bolt is on an all-time low and both take over games very quickly if unanswered.
I'll considerer change the Chandra for a Kalitas as well. After thinking harder, I've sideboarded her out almost every single G2 or G3 and rarely bringer back for G3 if needed, but Kalitas seems an all star on this meta..but he's a nombo with Scooze tho...and I'm not too excited for bringing in Huntmaster back..
i firmly believe that mid-range jund is not tier 3 at all . more then likely it just dosent have the number of players needed to be tire 2 or 1 just because most people are playing jund deaths shadow.
Definitely a fan of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (It's my pic obvi). Against aggro decks, it's just a huge wall that gains life and accumulates a huge army of zombies over time, it's literally all you want. It does compete with Scavenging Ooze in that aspect, but I think it does a better job anyway. Against control/midrnage decks, Huntmaster of the Fells is definitely better, but one creature doesn't win those games like Kalitas does against aggro decks. I think the card personifies Jund on it's own and I don't know why people don't play it more.
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"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
So...Kalitas, Huntmaster, Olivia win the game after the our next turn.
None told about Hazoret, The Fervent. I think that it can be a good cc4, in addition to the new entry Fatal Push. But it can be played now, with the current meta?
I haven't tried it yet.
Some ppl tested him and there were positive feedback for hazoret. I did not test him myself, but for me. Hazoret can be either good or not doing anything, since you might want play impactful 4 drops at times were you still have cards in hand. I personally want reliability in my cards, which hazoret just doesn't provide. You know things do run often not the way you want them to, so I am not intrigued. But still, ppl did have good experience to a certain extent so you csn test him if you want to.
So...Kalitas, Huntmaster, Olivia win the game after the our next turn.
None told about Hazoret, The Fervent. I think that it can be a good cc4, in addition to the new entry Fatal Push. But it can be played now, with the current meta?
I haven't tried it yet.
Did a small amount of testing with Hazoret, the Fervent and the results were mixed. Like others have said, sometimes its great other times the combat restrictions and / or inability for it to kill small creatures made it fairly bad. It was the best against grixis / jund shadow and midrange builds because of the flow of the games leading toward hellbent status and the almost impossibility for them to remove it from the board. I was running 2 of them to ensure I was able to see them often enough to cast, but would probably just run a single in reality.
I have also tested with Hazoret and like her a lot. I was playing with two but have moved to one Olivia mainboard. One Hazoret and one Olivia will be my 4-drops of choice at GP Vegas. Grim Lavamancer is great with Ooze because it can continue to take out an opponents creatures and give Ooze more fuel.
I don't expect much to change, if anything, before next weekend. I'll be arriving in Vegas on Wednesday and will be playing in the Thursday/Friday Modern events to get a feel for what will be the most heavily represented decks. Having 23 lands and 7 discard spells main is a personal preference. My overall CMC in the 75 is a little lower than usual.
So quick tournament report guys, played at my local store at tonights fnm and took it home with an amazing 5-0 finish! Did not loose a single game during the rounds, never felt so alive playing Jund again. It felt like a rise from the dark middle ages into the alight modern times. Today was a day of old Junding 'em out!
Round 1: against GW Hatebears (won 2-0)
The match started like a match like these should start: Having answers for every threat they have, discarding their valuable cards and taking the game over with Goyfs. Fatal Push was amazing all times through and was happy to have them over bolt. There were Terminate #4, #5 and #6 basically. For sideboarding I wanted my sweepers in the form of Anger and Damnation as well as the new Liliana. LoTV was not the best here since my opponent run 4 Loxodon Smiters and 3 Wielt Lief Leege and therefore I cut some of them. Since the deck was not a CoCo deck and I value threats and removal more here, I cut some TS to lower the amount of bad topdecks. Matchup is favourable after all so not too much to say about it.
Round 2: against Artifact Charge Counters (won 2-0)
Weird deck tbh, was a combo utilizing the Paradox Engine card and charging up artifacts to produce tons of mana and draw tons of cards and then cast Wurmcoil Engine. Seemed like a budget brew and completely useless when no Engine was around, so I packed in my Surgicals and extraced them in game 2. I would argue this deck was not that competitive to talk about it too much.
Round 3: against Merfolk (won 2-0)
I have to say, the Merfolk player was not that experienced, which gave me a clear edge for this matchup. Things like Spreading Seas and Silvergill Adept are a must take when it comes down to discarding and killing every lord asap is a no brainer. I managed to have a wall of goyfs up at all times which made attack unproftiable for my opponent. From there I used Bob (oh my did Bob felt great the whole tournament!) to draw into more removal and take over the game. After sideboarding I brought in my Sweeper and LtLH and my opponent left Vials in the deck, which was a huge mistake. As merfolk player you should board out Vials in attirion based matchups, to prevent bad topdecks. I guess he did feel it when he kept a hand with 2 vials (which is definitely 1 too much). That being said, never felt unsecure or just lucky, deck was just great and I knew what to do at all times.
Round 4: against Bushwhacker Zoo (won 2-0)
This matchup is I would argue favoured in general, but not by much. This deck can be explosive as hell, and sometimes win out of nowhere. I had plenty of removal and one LtLH in game 2 though. I cut TS, Chandra and Olivia (clunky slow and self damaging spells are not great) and brought in CBs, LtLH and Finks.
Round 5: against Burn (won 2-0)
Not too much to say here, just played the match out and took as little dmg as possible, while established the biggest clock under these circumstances. I had 3 CBs and 2 Finks as SB cards for burn, which made me feel pretty comfortable for the matchup.
For reference, my meta I was expecting was Burn, Elves, Tron and CoCo decks in general. For this reason my sideboard looks like the following (displayed in the decklist):
Overall I am pretty happy with how Jund performs in this configuration. Important is to keep being up-to-date and adjust the deck to the dominant meta.
Great result, played Jund as well today and went 3-1 (2nd place).
The only difference in the decklist is Huntmaster for Chandra and the 4th Push instead of Lavamancer which I will definitely try out in the future.
About my matches, not much to say: Won against a Jeskai Control deck with Kefnet (Bob, Goyf and LotV were the protagonists in all 3 matches), my 3rd match was against Restore Balance (artifact hate is crucial in this matchup) which I won 2-1 as well.
Final against Eldrazi Tron, I lost 0-2: However, he got pretty lucky with natural Tron in both matches on t3 with an amzing follow-up and great topdecks. I was able to remove his creatures and artifacts, Lili controlled his hand and Fulminator controlled his manabase but 2 Walking Balista were too much in g2.
Imo this matchup is way better than just Tron, as our removal is actually useful against them: Push for Balista, Reshaper and Thought-Knot, Terminate for Endbringer etc. Lili is amazing against them, as she handles Smasher pretty well. Basically, even though I lost 0-2, I didn't feel completely hopeless.
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One: Eldrazi Tron.
The rest can be easily taken down with Jund, so in my opinion Jund is now "under the radar" as they say.
I don't know what cc4 drop is better than others now.
Olivia? Huntmaster? Kalitas? Chandra?
In all my local tournaments I was very unsatisfied by Chandra, Torch of Defiance. On the other hand, Chandra Pyromaster saved me a lot of matches.
So, with the new entry "Fatal Push", what cc4 can be the best?
That's a tricky question mate...The "go to" 4c drop were Huntmaster for a long time...But i firmly believe that this is more of a meta call, i mean, if you expect heavy creatures and CoCo decks, Olivia it's just absurd..also Chandra TOD itsn't bad either, because she can grind them outr once the coast is clear...
I've been playing with 72/75 from Reid Duke's list, changed the board a bit for my LGS meta. My main deck it's the same as him and I must say, Olivia, Grim and even Chandra..they have been just great..and they steal games for us.
Also the removal package, never been so happy playing Classic Jund again.. I did not transiotioned to the DS version, so it's been quite hard..but Reid's showed how to play with Mid Jund again.
UR Twin - RIP
I love the combination of Olivia and Huntmaster: They are both good against tokens, Bolt is on an all-time low and both take over games very quickly if unanswered.
UR Twin - RIP
...that's exactly what tiers mean.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
None told about Hazoret, The Fervent. I think that it can be a good cc4, in addition to the new entry Fatal Push. But it can be played now, with the current meta?
I haven't tried it yet.
I feel Mama&Papa would be great against CoCo since you can instantly shock off their combo pieces if needed.
Also great chump blockers against DS, answer to lingering souls and multiple bodies for control matches.
I dislike Grim Lavamancer since it relies so much on GY and is a nonbo with Tarmo and Ooze. Olivia is otherwise fantastic, but she is only one body.
Did a small amount of testing with Hazoret, the Fervent and the results were mixed. Like others have said, sometimes its great other times the combat restrictions and / or inability for it to kill small creatures made it fairly bad. It was the best against grixis / jund shadow and midrange builds because of the flow of the games leading toward hellbent status and the almost impossibility for them to remove it from the board. I was running 2 of them to ensure I was able to see them often enough to cast, but would probably just run a single in reality.
To call it a nonbo is fairly disingenuous. You choose what to exile from the gy and its not like we have trouble getting cards there.
1 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
I don't expect much to change, if anything, before next weekend. I'll be arriving in Vegas on Wednesday and will be playing in the Thursday/Friday Modern events to get a feel for what will be the most heavily represented decks. Having 23 lands and 7 discard spells main is a personal preference. My overall CMC in the 75 is a little lower than usual.
Round 1: against GW Hatebears (won 2-0)
The match started like a match like these should start: Having answers for every threat they have, discarding their valuable cards and taking the game over with Goyfs. Fatal Push was amazing all times through and was happy to have them over bolt. There were Terminate #4, #5 and #6 basically. For sideboarding I wanted my sweepers in the form of Anger and Damnation as well as the new Liliana. LoTV was not the best here since my opponent run 4 Loxodon Smiters and 3 Wielt Lief Leege and therefore I cut some of them. Since the deck was not a CoCo deck and I value threats and removal more here, I cut some TS to lower the amount of bad topdecks. Matchup is favourable after all so not too much to say about it.
Round 2: against Artifact Charge Counters (won 2-0)
Weird deck tbh, was a combo utilizing the Paradox Engine card and charging up artifacts to produce tons of mana and draw tons of cards and then cast Wurmcoil Engine. Seemed like a budget brew and completely useless when no Engine was around, so I packed in my Surgicals and extraced them in game 2. I would argue this deck was not that competitive to talk about it too much.
Round 3: against Merfolk (won 2-0)
I have to say, the Merfolk player was not that experienced, which gave me a clear edge for this matchup. Things like Spreading Seas and Silvergill Adept are a must take when it comes down to discarding and killing every lord asap is a no brainer. I managed to have a wall of goyfs up at all times which made attack unproftiable for my opponent. From there I used Bob (oh my did Bob felt great the whole tournament!) to draw into more removal and take over the game. After sideboarding I brought in my Sweeper and LtLH and my opponent left Vials in the deck, which was a huge mistake. As merfolk player you should board out Vials in attirion based matchups, to prevent bad topdecks. I guess he did feel it when he kept a hand with 2 vials (which is definitely 1 too much). That being said, never felt unsecure or just lucky, deck was just great and I knew what to do at all times.
Round 4: against Bushwhacker Zoo (won 2-0)
This matchup is I would argue favoured in general, but not by much. This deck can be explosive as hell, and sometimes win out of nowhere. I had plenty of removal and one LtLH in game 2 though. I cut TS, Chandra and Olivia (clunky slow and self damaging spells are not great) and brought in CBs, LtLH and Finks.
Round 5: against Burn (won 2-0)
Not too much to say here, just played the match out and took as little dmg as possible, while established the biggest clock under these circumstances. I had 3 CBs and 2 Finks as SB cards for burn, which made me feel pretty comfortable for the matchup.
For reference, my meta I was expecting was Burn, Elves, Tron and CoCo decks in general. For this reason my sideboard looks like the following (displayed in the decklist):
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blooming Marsh
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
Noncreature Spells [23]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Collective Brutality
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Overall I am pretty happy with how Jund performs in this configuration. Important is to keep being up-to-date and adjust the deck to the dominant meta.
The only difference in the decklist is Huntmaster for Chandra and the 4th Push instead of Lavamancer which I will definitely try out in the future.
About my matches, not much to say: Won against a Jeskai Control deck with Kefnet (Bob, Goyf and LotV were the protagonists in all 3 matches), my 3rd match was against Restore Balance (artifact hate is crucial in this matchup) which I won 2-1 as well.
Final against Eldrazi Tron, I lost 0-2: However, he got pretty lucky with natural Tron in both matches on t3 with an amzing follow-up and great topdecks. I was able to remove his creatures and artifacts, Lili controlled his hand and Fulminator controlled his manabase but 2 Walking Balista were too much in g2.
Imo this matchup is way better than just Tron, as our removal is actually useful against them: Push for Balista, Reshaper and Thought-Knot, Terminate for Endbringer etc. Lili is amazing against them, as she handles Smasher pretty well. Basically, even though I lost 0-2, I didn't feel completely hopeless.