I like BBD's idea of Elspeth in the board, but I'm also interested in 1 Eternal Witness in the main over a single Skyspawner. I recognize that it would be difficult to support both with the mana base, so I'm going to have to choose. My question to the group is which card is more impactful overall and why?
(I'm still in the process of building the deck, so I haven't been able to test personally.)
Of course, that first question has a potential follow up too... If I keep Elspeth and therefore run the singleton Skyspawner, is it worth the 3 Matter Reshaper/2 Skyspawner split or should I keep the full playset of Reshapers?
I like BBD's idea of Elspeth in the board, but I'm also interested in 1 Eternal Witness in the main over a single Skyspawner. I recognize that it would be difficult to support both with the mana base, so I'm going to have to choose. My question to the group is which card is more impactful overall and why?
(I'm still in the process of building the deck, so I haven't been able to test personally.)
Of course, that first question has a potential follow up too... If I keep Elspeth and therefore run the singleton Skyspawner, is it worth the 3 Matter Reshaper/2 Skyspawner split or should I keep the full playset of Reshapers?
Thanks in advance for the input!
the gg requirement for witness has been difficult to hit at times and the impact is typically only felt late game. very few games go the distance so witness came out of my 75. spawner is flying and helps ramp early, also given an extra scion for drowner when it comes down, this is a more versatile creature overall.
the question for me now is cut one spawner for a mulldrifter
why not 2x reshaper 2x spawner 1x elspeth, or better yet if you are running 4x drowner cut 1 for elspeth? i'm running 3x drowner and it is working for me.
Just wanted to post my current list, I have one open sideboard slot open since Kitchen Finks were removed once the Thragtusk went in the main so am open to suggestions. Have been considering a Kataki, War's Wage to shore up the affinity battle but would also consider something to battle infect or possibly titanshift. Have also been considering removing Stubborn Denial in favor of another Negate and/or hard counter.
Please feel free to critique the deck and make suggestions particularly for the sideboard, thanks!
Good point on the double green for Eternal Witness, that's definitely a relevant consideration. This way I can be more comfortable running 2 plains/1 forest for Elspeth out of the sideboard and potentially running one main deck Ghost Quarter as well. I'll swap the Eternal Witness and Eldrazi Skyspawner and not look back. I hadn't thought of running one main deck Elspeth, although it might not be a bad idea if there's a high percentage of "fair" decks in the local meta.
Yep the article is good. He gives thought to pretty much every sideboard card we could play, and Stubborn Denial has been low impact for me so i'm giving Unified Will a go.
Burn seems like a decent matchup, however i'm having trouble finding the right cards for the matchup.
I think Negate might be the best option for a couple reasons:
First, it's not conditional. Unified Will costs the same as Negate but is completely useless if we don't control more creatures. That's even more conditional than Stubborn Denial, which at least is still relatively functional without Ferocious enabled.
Second, and I think BBD alluded to this in his article pretty clearly, there aren't many creatures we're scared of enough that we'd need to counter them. We tend to do well against creature-based decks, so why waste spots on a conditional counter spell that we don't really need? The notable exception to this logic are creatures like Primeval Titan or Emrakul. That said, Emrakul is very rarely hard cast and Negate hits all the ways it's cheated onto the field. For Primeval Titan, you'd just have to save your Paths and use your Negates for Summoner's Pact and Scapeshift.
I hope BBD addresses his sideboard logic again in the near future, that was definitely a good read.
Also, I can see the logic with Blessed Alliance not being necessary either, but I think that it can really help against Burn and Death's Shadow (since you can target them with the lifegain at instant speed).
True, and really good point about the mana cost. I think that is the reason it's played despite it's conditional nature. I do understand the other side of it though too. I think it just comes down to what you feel is most important and most tolerable to you personally throughout the course of playing the deck.
For me, I've got a 2 Stubborn Denial/1 Negate split currently. I'm comfortable with the risk personally, but I can definitely see both sides of the debate.
What do you all think of Dimensional infiltrator? The obvious comparison is to skyspawner, but Infiltrator has a few advantages:
- Can ambush viper an important creature in the burn, zoo, affinity, and infect matchups
- Is a resilient threat in the late game and allows you to weather through times when you flood out; if you have the mana up, it's very hard to kill
- Is an alternate win con in prison scenarios (late game you can mill them 3-5 a turn)
- Doesn't need acceleration to be played turn 2
- Can be played turn 2 while holding path or dismember mana up
- Can screw up decks that rely on one-ofs
- Can screw up scry
What do you all think of Dimensional infiltrator? The obvious comparison is to skyspawner, but Infiltrator has a few advantages:
- Can ambush viper an important creature in the burn, zoo, affinity, and infect matchups
- Is a resilient threat in the late game and allows you to weather through times when you flood out; if you have the mana up, it's very hard to kill
- Is an alternate win con in prison scenarios (late game you can mill them 3-5 a turn)
- Doesn't need acceleration to be played turn 2
- Can be played turn 2 while holding path or dismember mana up
- Can screw up decks that rely on one-ofs
- Can screw up scry
You've done a great job of detailing the positives Dimensional Infiltrator could bring to the deck, I just think it's a matter of the role you're looking to fill. With Skyspawner, it's a one or two of at best with two main benefits: flying and acceleration into our more devastating threats. Infiltrator has flying but does nothing else that assists in our regular game plan. Also, the resources you'd be investing in Infiltrator are better spent on Displacer anyway. I could see Infiltrator being a sideboard card against prison decks or Death and Taxes, but that would be very meta dependent.
The deck's lose-conditions are when: 1) a deck goes under it or 2) it runs out of gas. Infiltrator helps in both of these situations since it's cheap and is also hard to remove. I don't think it would be anything beyond a 1- or 2-of.
After much testing - I'm on board with 4x Chalice (Infect is far too prevalent to leave home without this card), Dromoka's Command (Ive cut world breaker), 2x Timely Reinforcements and 2x Worship for the burn matchup.
Burn can play through Chalice - however it can often slow them down just enough that if you hit another sb card like Timely or Worship and/or they stumble you can win. I'm currently happy with my sb for burn.
Can anyone tell me what the fascination with Big Elspeth is in Eldrazi? Seems like the sb is already stretched trying to deal with Infect, Burn, Affinity, Zoo, Dredge - why the need to go bigger when our problem is dealing with fast aggro decks..?!
Elspeth strengthens the post-board matchup against many of the 'fair' decks in the format. Ultimately the extra percentage points post board are worth 1, maybe 2 sideboard spots.
I haven't played with Elspeth enough to say (haven't sideboarded her in the couple games I've gotten in today) but I think the idea is to have at least something for the fair/slower decks. It's already a pretty good matchup but you want to have at least something to bring in when you have cards you want to board out (cutting paths against UW control for example). It's probably not going to be an auto-include going forward, but it will be meta dependent for sure.
After much testing - I'm on board with 4x Chalice (Infect is far too prevalent to leave home without this card), Dromoka's Command (Ive cut world breaker), 2x Timely Reinforcements and 2x Worship for the burn matchup.
Islands I think I'm also coming around to the idea of chalice, but I haven't been able to test as much recently.
I know you were referring to the burn matchup, but how has command been working otherwise? I've been thinking about playing it for a while, but always manage to forget about the card before testing. Unfortunately blood moon is present in my meta (Skred Red is not the most fun matchup) so I want a way to deal with it without having to sideboard enchantment specific hate.
What do you think about Elemental Bond:
Whenever a creature with power 3 or greater enters the battlefield, draw a card.
It's a possible sideboard option in games where you have the time to trade off tempo for a card advantage gain. It seems VERY powerful in the late game, where drawing a single creature can chain into 2-3 creatures on the board at the same time. It also works off displacer flickers.
Elspeth is a key card in the BANT Eldrazi mirror, if your in a losing position (looking at a TKS + Smasher for instance) you can wipe the board and take over from there with Elspeth. It's also a fine card in the grindy matchups where we are already favorable... matchups like Abzan, Jund & UWR.
I guess the thing is I need sb slots for all the solitaire decks - Affinity, Burn, Infect, Sui Zoo, Dredge, etc. I'm not looking for any more cards for GBx - we already beat those decks.
So Big Elspeth is really only there for the Mirror. I have 2x Worship for the mirror - and Worship is very relevant against most solitiare decks - I cant see why id play Big elspeth over Worships..
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
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(I'm still in the process of building the deck, so I haven't been able to test personally.)
Of course, that first question has a potential follow up too... If I keep Elspeth and therefore run the singleton Skyspawner, is it worth the 3 Matter Reshaper/2 Skyspawner split or should I keep the full playset of Reshapers?
Thanks in advance for the input!
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
the gg requirement for witness has been difficult to hit at times and the impact is typically only felt late game. very few games go the distance so witness came out of my 75. spawner is flying and helps ramp early, also given an extra scion for drowner when it comes down, this is a more versatile creature overall.
the question for me now is cut one spawner for a mulldrifter
why not 2x reshaper 2x spawner 1x elspeth, or better yet if you are running 4x drowner cut 1 for elspeth? i'm running 3x drowner and it is working for me.
1 Breeding Pool
2 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
1 Wastes
1 Windswept Heath
3 Yavimaya Coast
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Warping Wail
Creatures (25)
3 Drowner of Hope
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Mulldrifter
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
2 Spellskite
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Beast Within
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Worship
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
Just wanted to post my current list, I have one open sideboard slot open since Kitchen Finks were removed once the Thragtusk went in the main so am open to suggestions. Have been considering a Kataki, War's Wage to shore up the affinity battle but would also consider something to battle infect or possibly titanshift. Have also been considering removing Stubborn Denial in favor of another Negate and/or hard counter.
Please feel free to critique the deck and make suggestions particularly for the sideboard, thanks!
For reference, here's my deck:
1 Breeding Pool
3 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Yavimaya Coast
4 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
2 Spellskite
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Spells (9)
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Path to Exile
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Negate
3 Stony Silence
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Thragtusk
What do you think?
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/taking-a-good-hard-look-at-bant-eldrazis-sideboard/
I particularly like the idea of the Unified Will replacing the Stubborn Denial.
I am not a fan of Elspeth however and agree with BBD on Blessed Alliance not making the sideboard.
Burn seems like a decent matchup, however i'm having trouble finding the right cards for the matchup.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=107571
I think Negate might be the best option for a couple reasons:
First, it's not conditional. Unified Will costs the same as Negate but is completely useless if we don't control more creatures. That's even more conditional than Stubborn Denial, which at least is still relatively functional without Ferocious enabled.
Second, and I think BBD alluded to this in his article pretty clearly, there aren't many creatures we're scared of enough that we'd need to counter them. We tend to do well against creature-based decks, so why waste spots on a conditional counter spell that we don't really need? The notable exception to this logic are creatures like Primeval Titan or Emrakul. That said, Emrakul is very rarely hard cast and Negate hits all the ways it's cheated onto the field. For Primeval Titan, you'd just have to save your Paths and use your Negates for Summoner's Pact and Scapeshift.
I hope BBD addresses his sideboard logic again in the near future, that was definitely a good read.
Also, I can see the logic with Blessed Alliance not being necessary either, but I think that it can really help against Burn and Death's Shadow (since you can target them with the lifegain at instant speed).
Thoughts?
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
For me, I've got a 2 Stubborn Denial/1 Negate split currently. I'm comfortable with the risk personally, but I can definitely see both sides of the debate.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
- Can ambush viper an important creature in the burn, zoo, affinity, and infect matchups
- Is a resilient threat in the late game and allows you to weather through times when you flood out; if you have the mana up, it's very hard to kill
- Is an alternate win con in prison scenarios (late game you can mill them 3-5 a turn)
- Doesn't need acceleration to be played turn 2
- Can be played turn 2 while holding path or dismember mana up
- Can screw up decks that rely on one-ofs
- Can screw up scry
Dimensional Infiltrator
You've done a great job of detailing the positives Dimensional Infiltrator could bring to the deck, I just think it's a matter of the role you're looking to fill. With Skyspawner, it's a one or two of at best with two main benefits: flying and acceleration into our more devastating threats. Infiltrator has flying but does nothing else that assists in our regular game plan. Also, the resources you'd be investing in Infiltrator are better spent on Displacer anyway. I could see Infiltrator being a sideboard card against prison decks or Death and Taxes, but that would be very meta dependent.
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Burn can play through Chalice - however it can often slow them down just enough that if you hit another sb card like Timely or Worship and/or they stumble you can win. I'm currently happy with my sb for burn.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Islands I think I'm also coming around to the idea of chalice, but I haven't been able to test as much recently.
I know you were referring to the burn matchup, but how has command been working otherwise? I've been thinking about playing it for a while, but always manage to forget about the card before testing. Unfortunately blood moon is present in my meta (Skred Red is not the most fun matchup) so I want a way to deal with it without having to sideboard enchantment specific hate.
fragmentize
going in my sideboard for sure!
*edit* hm, not an instant tho... */edit*
Whenever a creature with power 3 or greater enters the battlefield, draw a card.
It's a possible sideboard option in games where you have the time to trade off tempo for a card advantage gain. It seems VERY powerful in the late game, where drawing a single creature can chain into 2-3 creatures on the board at the same time. It also works off displacer flickers.
BGR Jund BGR
UG Infect UG
I guess the thing is I need sb slots for all the solitaire decks - Affinity, Burn, Infect, Sui Zoo, Dredge, etc. I'm not looking for any more cards for GBx - we already beat those decks.
So Big Elspeth is really only there for the Mirror. I have 2x Worship for the mirror - and Worship is very relevant against most solitiare decks - I cant see why id play Big elspeth over Worships..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver