Well I guess you have a less diverse metagame then myself. Wrathing the board is back breaking for Eldrazi. Not sure how having a counterspell that doesnt counter anything (most of the time) is better then a wrath..
Not sure what your meta is. I just competed in GP Guangzhou. 11-4 on Jeskai Nahiri (no byes) Top 50 finish. My list is on the WOTC website for reference.
I haven't found the Wraths particularly effective because as I've said, it needs to be a top deck because TKS can take it before you cast it and I've rarely found myself battling more than 1-2 big eldrazi. PTE, snap PTE plus something like this counterspell are going to have to do.
For reference you aren't that likely to have BOTH cavern AND Eldrazi temple. When you only have one of the two (which is most of the time) things are going to be a lot more fair. Supreme Verdict is the more likely card if one was going to run wraths but it's not all that great in other match-ups. You will run smack into this new counterspell and not have a cavern (a lot). When it's flashed back to counter the second Reality Smasher it will feel pretty bad.
Wouldn't it hurt if u only have that and can't counter an ancient stirrings? A spell we cast to search for cavern.
Imo, a hit all kinda spell would be much better in any deck.
Three mana leak anf multiple negates post board plus snapcaster. I think Eldrazi is a tough deck for us to face but i don't want to waste slots on the wrath and my pro points are showing that it's a valid way to approach the meta.
Well seeing as you have pro points which prove your amazingness I guess I'll just accept that your suggestion of a narrow counter that does nothing against cavern is better then a wrath effect that wrecks Eldrazi - thanks for your input..
I like how some people think that just because they have pro points, they are correct all the time. Having pro points doesn't necessarily make you a better player than everyone else (somebody will always be better) and its always wise to consider other people's input.
In terms of that counterspell, my view is that its too narrow and my argument against it mirrors what IslandsAreBroken has just mentioned. I was a former UWR control player myself but got out of it a year back as i lacked faith in the deck. As IslandsAreBroken said, as a UWR control player, i would rather just play a wrath effect (which can be used for other match ups too) rather than this suboptimal counter spell which may be useless most of the time. Furthermore its very likely that bant eldrazi has a cavern most of the time since they play 4 caverns and 4 ancient stirrings.
And speaking of pro points (since you mentioned that a pro points player's opinion is always correct), I have another friend who does have pro points and he went for a few pro tours (he is also a UWR control player since the start of modern and he never plays anything else) and he is also of the opinion that ceremonious rejection is far too narrow unless you begin to see a huge uptick in tron too. Just my 2 cents on this topic.
I like how some people think that just because they have pro points, they are correct all the time. Having pro points doesn't necessarily make you a better player than everyone else (somebody will always be better) and its always wise to consider other people's input.
In terms of that counterspell, my view is that its too narrow and my argument against it mirrors what IslandsAreBroken has just mentioned. I was a former UWR control player myself but got out of it a year back as i lacked faith in the deck. As IslandsAreBroken said, as a UWR control player, i would rather just play a wrath effect (which can be used for other match ups too) rather than this suboptimal counter spell which may be useless most of the time. Furthermore its very likely that bant eldrazi has a cavern most of the time since they play 4 caverns and 4 ancient stirrings.
And speaking of pro points (since you mentioned that a pro points player's opinion is always correct), I have another friend who does have pro points and he went for a few pro tours (he is also a UWR control player since the start of modern and he never plays anything else) and he is also of the opinion that ceremonious rejection is far too narrow unless you begin to see a huge uptick in tron too. Just my 2 cents on this topic.
I don't lack faith in the Jeskai order and I don't run any 4 mana wraths. They are clunky and outside of the Eldrazi match-up not very efficient. Anger of the Gods is a much cleaner and efficient answer to the vast majority of the creature based decks so I choose to hedge in that direction. As far as the counterspell goes. It counters essentially everything in the Affinity list from turn 1 at the cost of 1 mana it is a ten in that match-up, against Tron it counters the vast majority of spells for the deck it's a 9 in that match-up, against Eldrazi it counters all the business spells and is only dead against a Cavern but the card is still at least an 8 in that match-up. I've played against Eldrazi as much as the next guy and plenty of games my opponent doesn't have Cavern or he past up on taking a "big spell" to get the cavern, in which case I'm in decent shape anyway.
The 4 mana wraths are not super effective against Eldrazi. I've had wraths countered plenty against them in the past and often I'm getting beaten down by one big creature not 3. So that's how I choose to hedge. The counterspell is insane against two strong decks and happens to also be very good against Eldrazi. If I thought I'd face Eldrazi multiple times per large event I'd consider cards specifically for them, but I went through long two day GPs and never faced them. In local tourneys I face them and still have a positive record (which would be impossible against decks like Scapeshift and Tron, which are in fact really bad match-ups). Eldrazi is a negative match-up but very draw dependent. There are plenty of games where they don't have caverns and game one Mana Leaks wreck them. Game two I'm leaner with more answers.
It's not that bad. It shines in late grindy type matches. Also being able to keep their finisher tapped down. I don't think it's the best but I enjoy it. Csting it isn't that hard but yes sometimes you just can't do it as early as you want to.
Your Supreme verdict got countered? Ouch, was it an exile effect? I guess its fortunate that you dodged Eldrazi playing UWR at a GP - as UWR is a dog to eldrazi (read very unfavourable) and very prevalent (based on actual data not anecdotes about not facing them). Im glad you can win against Eldrazi at an FNM - can't see that happening at a GP day 2..
Your Supreme verdict got countered? Ouch, was it an exile effect? I guess its fortunate that you dodged Eldrazi playing UWR at a GP - as UWR is a dog to eldrazi (read very unfavourable) and very prevalent (based on actual data not anecdotes about not facing them). Im glad you can win against Eldrazi at an FNM - can't see that happening at a GP day 2..
It's unfavorable but not that bad. Very draw dependent. My team tested against it quite a bit and found that adding 4 mana wrath spells didn't improve the win rate enough to justify a slot. In general, Anger of the gods is a cleaner answer to the format. Supreme Verdict isn't useful in most other match-ups.Jeskai will lose more than they will win but it's not like Tron or Scapeshift where we are huge dogs. I enjoy facing Eldrazi. If I found it problematic or prevalent I'd probably look to sideboard more against it but it's not currently where I wanna be.
I haven't read the last pages of the thread, i was absent for some time playing other decks.
What's with flex spots of this deck? I just read Pascal's guide but i couldn't reach a conclusion.
I was playing a list with 1 mb Explosives. It's kinda good but i don't love it, as Maynard says, it's highly reactive in a very proactive deck. I've seen many players running Dismember. Is it good enough? Are extra removal and interaction that necesary?
General consensus is that this deck's unfavorable matchups are infect, affinity, DS zoo, merfolk and elves. Explosives and dismember helps our winning % game 1 for these aggro creature decks.
The matchups where such removal is dead (jeskai, tron) we are considered favored to win that these dead draws don't impact our game 1.
Well, DS Aggro is kinda 50-50ish. The others are unfavorable yes.
Considering those,i would go for Explosives, which has the highest impact(For 1 and 2). Dismember as Path number 5,6 doesn't seem apealing to me?.
I know Dismember is somewhat more flexible as it can kill other things like Resto angel,Colonade,Ravine,etc. But seems so low impact considering the 4 life to pay. Maybe split between those???
I haven't read the last pages of the thread, i was absent for some time playing other decks.
What's with flex spots of this deck? I just read Pascal's guide but i couldn't reach a conclusion.
I was playing a list with 1 mb Explosives. It's kinda good but i don't love it, as Maynard says, it's highly reactive in a very proactive deck. I've seen many players running Dismember. Is it good enough? Are extra removal and interaction that necesary?
Playing 1 dismember MD and it won me some games. Very good vs mirror, infect, zoo and jund g1
Yeah definitely swapping 1 EE for 1 Dismember. Seem a whole lot more flexible.
Almost forgot. Many people seem to be fading from Eldrazi Skyspawner. I recall when the forum started to catch on, we discussed Spawner as way to combat Affinity and Infect. I have tried it, and runned it since we were promoted to Tier 1 and of course, it impresses in the right matchups. It's like great or meh.
Even when it's great, it doesn't stall that much. Many players went back to 4 Reshaper which is an awesome magic card and firmly adecuates to the mana base.
I am thinking about playing Eldrazi in Modern. I am between Bant Eldrazi, Eldrazi Tron, B/W Eldrazi, or B/R Eldrazi. I think I listed them in power order and the order that I would prefer to play. The only thing tilting my opinion at this point is that eldrazi tron would be cheaper to get into as I do not have Noble Hierarch's or Cavern of Souls yet. What is your opinion, is the deck worth getting into (I know you guys play it so you will of course be bias)? Also, how imortant are those two cards, is there anything I can sub for them in the mean time? I assume Corrupted Crossroads would kind of work for Cavern. Would just a set of BoP work instead of Noble in a pinch?
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Standard:GR Eldrazi Ramp
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
Nobles more important then cavern. The exalted is a must. There was a cavernless list that went 5-0 recently in a league I saw on magic online, if your metagame is heavy control though I'd suggest caverns asap
My list runs no nobles but 4 Birds instead. Yea it's not as good but I'll fix that later (possible reprint on noble). However I do have 3 caverns in my list. If you are just gonna play it at your LGS then you should be fine with either, just don't expect to be as strong. However if you plan to go more serious play then they are a must.
What's people take on MB Ghost Quarter? I took it out, but i'm not sure if it's correct.
Is it necesary? Metacall?.
Been thinking of Tectonic Edge isntead. It doesn't give ur opponent a chance to replace a land but you'll need to wait for ur opponent to have 4 lands.
Well seeing as you have pro points which prove your amazingness I guess I'll just accept that your suggestion of a narrow counter that does nothing against cavern is better then a wrath effect that wrecks Eldrazi - thanks for your input..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
In terms of that counterspell, my view is that its too narrow and my argument against it mirrors what IslandsAreBroken has just mentioned. I was a former UWR control player myself but got out of it a year back as i lacked faith in the deck. As IslandsAreBroken said, as a UWR control player, i would rather just play a wrath effect (which can be used for other match ups too) rather than this suboptimal counter spell which may be useless most of the time. Furthermore its very likely that bant eldrazi has a cavern most of the time since they play 4 caverns and 4 ancient stirrings.
And speaking of pro points (since you mentioned that a pro points player's opinion is always correct), I have another friend who does have pro points and he went for a few pro tours (he is also a UWR control player since the start of modern and he never plays anything else) and he is also of the opinion that ceremonious rejection is far too narrow unless you begin to see a huge uptick in tron too. Just my 2 cents on this topic.
How tamiyo works for you? I would like to try her, but not convinced... The mana cost isn't difficult to pay?
I don't lack faith in the Jeskai order and I don't run any 4 mana wraths. They are clunky and outside of the Eldrazi match-up not very efficient. Anger of the Gods is a much cleaner and efficient answer to the vast majority of the creature based decks so I choose to hedge in that direction. As far as the counterspell goes. It counters essentially everything in the Affinity list from turn 1 at the cost of 1 mana it is a ten in that match-up, against Tron it counters the vast majority of spells for the deck it's a 9 in that match-up, against Eldrazi it counters all the business spells and is only dead against a Cavern but the card is still at least an 8 in that match-up. I've played against Eldrazi as much as the next guy and plenty of games my opponent doesn't have Cavern or he past up on taking a "big spell" to get the cavern, in which case I'm in decent shape anyway.
The 4 mana wraths are not super effective against Eldrazi. I've had wraths countered plenty against them in the past and often I'm getting beaten down by one big creature not 3. So that's how I choose to hedge. The counterspell is insane against two strong decks and happens to also be very good against Eldrazi. If I thought I'd face Eldrazi multiple times per large event I'd consider cards specifically for them, but I went through long two day GPs and never faced them. In local tourneys I face them and still have a positive record (which would be impossible against decks like Scapeshift and Tron, which are in fact really bad match-ups). Eldrazi is a negative match-up but very draw dependent. There are plenty of games where they don't have caverns and game one Mana Leaks wreck them. Game two I'm leaner with more answers.
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
It's unfavorable but not that bad. Very draw dependent. My team tested against it quite a bit and found that adding 4 mana wrath spells didn't improve the win rate enough to justify a slot. In general, Anger of the gods is a cleaner answer to the format. Supreme Verdict isn't useful in most other match-ups.Jeskai will lose more than they will win but it's not like Tron or Scapeshift where we are huge dogs. I enjoy facing Eldrazi. If I found it problematic or prevalent I'd probably look to sideboard more against it but it's not currently where I wanna be.
What's with flex spots of this deck? I just read Pascal's guide but i couldn't reach a conclusion.
I was playing a list with 1 mb Explosives. It's kinda good but i don't love it, as Maynard says, it's highly reactive in a very proactive deck. I've seen many players running Dismember. Is it good enough? Are extra removal and interaction that necesary?
The matchups where such removal is dead (jeskai, tron) we are considered favored to win that these dead draws don't impact our game 1.
Considering those,i would go for Explosives, which has the highest impact(For 1 and 2). Dismember as Path number 5,6 doesn't seem apealing to me?.
I know Dismember is somewhat more flexible as it can kill other things like Resto angel,Colonade,Ravine,etc. But seems so low impact considering the 4 life to pay. Maybe split between those???
Playing 1 dismember MD and it won me some games. Very good vs mirror, infect, zoo and jund g1
Almost forgot. Many people seem to be fading from Eldrazi Skyspawner. I recall when the forum started to catch on, we discussed Spawner as way to combat Affinity and Infect. I have tried it, and runned it since we were promoted to Tier 1 and of course, it impresses in the right matchups. It's like great or meh.
Even when it's great, it doesn't stall that much. Many players went back to 4 Reshaper which is an awesome magic card and firmly adecuates to the mana base.
Spawner can be tricky to cast on curve.
Modern: Mono Green Devotion
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
It has great synergy with Eldrazi Displacer and the counters can either go on Reality Smasher or Birds of Paradise (if you have them in the deck) or even get some smaller creatures like Matter Reshaper and Eldrazi Displacer out of Bolt or Anger range.
Otherwise a 8/8 trampler for 5 mana isn't too bad as well.
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
Eldrazi Skyspawner has devoid, dude
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm ******* <stupid>.
U B Faeries
U B Mill
G W B Bant Eldrazi
Is it necesary? Metacall?.
Been thinking of Tectonic Edge isntead. It doesn't give ur opponent a chance to replace a land but you'll need to wait for ur opponent to have 4 lands.