With lists running maindeck Spellskite and Skyspawner, Infect and Affinity aren't as bad matchups. Last weeks I played infect two rounds in a row and went 2-0, 2-0 thanks to the mix of Spellskites and Skyspawners mainly. Gut Shot also was clutch from the sideboard.
I think it massively depends on your build. If you're on the 4 matter reshaper/2 stubborn denial maindeck you're in pure race against infect and affinity g1 will you'll not beat without some luck.
Played in the Thursday night modern event again at my LGS with the Skyspawner and Spellskite in the main variant of the build, and also made room for 2 maindeck Stubborn Denials. Went 3-1!
Round 1: 8 whack goblins (1-2)
Summary - this deck is just too fast for us. Game 2 I won with a god hand of T2 TKS, T3 Smasher, T4 Timely. I've now changed my mind on the 8 whack / zoo matchups, they are not even, we are definitely unfavored.
Round 2: Infect (2-0)
G1: Skyspawner, Displacer, Path, and TKS kept him at bay and Drowner closed it out.
G2: Spellskite and Skyspawner shut him down hard. Eventually ran him over with Smasher and Drowner with Displacer.
Round 3: Mono U Tron (2-1)
G1: I still cannot believe I won this game. He contortioned by Displacer and I flooded out hard. He had Tron plus some islands in play and I couldn't draw my Cavern for a dozen turns. He had the Spell Burst lock for a while, so I just played a land and passed for many turns until I could cast two spells or otherwise get through the Spell Burst buyback lock. He ended up nearly tapping out for Sundering Titan destroying 3 of my lands. I was able to path it on his end step though and then resolved some creatures. I eventually won after an extremely long game and Cavern of Souls letting me play out the rest of my creatures counter-free. A highlight was on his draw step, displacing my TKS 3 times to remove all relevant cards from his hand (Ugin, Platinum Angel, Mindslaver). He had a Silent Arbiter in play that was holding me back for a while.
G2: I pathed 1 Wurmcoil, but he had Treasure Maged and then played another. I had no answer for it. He would attack for 6 lifelink, I would then swing back with Smasher for 5 damage. He was down to a low life total but I just could not get the cards I needed to shutdown the Wurmcoil and close out the game.
G3: We were running low on time (about 6 minutes) so went as fast as we could. There were a couple turns of trying to resolve a moderate threat like Reshaper or Skyspawner, him countering it, then me casting Stirrings afterwards to grab another threat. Cavern eventually shut down his counter game. He cast a Sundering Titan destroying 2 of my lands. I had a Hierarch, Displacer, TKS, and Reality Smasher in play though. Next turn I blinked his Sundering Titan for the best turn of the game - it left the battlefield, so he had to destroy one of his islands, then re-enters and he lost another island, putting him down to just Mine, PP, Tower, Academy Ruins, then I swung for 12 bringing him down to 2. He had a Batterskull on the battlefield and tried to equip it to Sundering Titan, he didn't notice I had exactly 3 mana available including the Hierarch and bounced it again. He conceded as we were at T4 at the time and I had lethal next turn.
Round 4 - Infect (2-1)
G1: Skyspawner and multiple Paths shut him down, then I closed out the game with some other eldrazi.
G2: I don't remember the details here other than he played a few cantrips early without committing anything to the board, then resolved Blighted Agent and I wasn't able to remove it. He won with Agent + Pendelhaven + Pumps (including vines)
G3: Skyspawner, Path, Ghost Quarter, and Stubborn Denial all did work here on shutting him down. TKS and Reality Smasher closed out the game in a hurry afterwards.
Overall... (3-1)
Maybe it's just bad variance, but games vs Goblins, Merfolk, and Zoo are really really tough to win. Any deck that goes wide and fast is tough for this deck. Not sure what else to do there. I still am sticking with Spellskite and Skyspawner in the main due to my local meta being so Infect heavy (2nd week in a row I played two infect players in the 4 round event). Funny thing is I'm pretty sure I am undefeated in best of 3s vs Infect with this variation of the build - both online and in person. Stubborn Denial in the main never really came up as useful in any Game 1s I played today. It was good vs Infect in a G3, but I would have sided it in there anyways. I'll still keep 2 Denials in the main for now, but that might change with more testing.
Online (Xmage) the meta is far more varied so I've been testing multiple variations. I tested Thalia for a little while and just did not like top-decking her at all. She also died to just everything possible. Wasn't really feeling like she was doing the work I wanted. I now am testing Wall of Omens which I'm unsure about, but some card draw and another flicker target has been nice in some situations. I'll continue to test the 2 drop slot more.
For my local meta, the only changes I can see is the 2 slots where I have Stubborn Denials in the main - I could go from 2 Reshaper 2 Skyspawner to some other split of Reshaper and Skyspawner, or I could just fit in 2 Kitchen Finks or something similar to give us a better G1 vs aggro decks. The build I'm thinking of for my local meta:
A lot of people were concerned with my inclusion of Thalia in the MD and Arbiter in the side, but all I have to say to that is "I REGRET NOTHING!"
Quick rundown:
Round 1 was against Company, and it did Company things. I lost G1 uneventfully, and G2 even with an Arbiter in play, he just CoCo'd his way to victory. I drew 1 interactive spell across 2 games.
0-1
Round 2 was against Blue Moon. Kill all my dudes into T4 Blood Moon into T5 Batterskull. That's G1. G2 I smashed, completely uneventful. G3, my hand had was a bunch of big dudes, and Temple Garden and a Wastes. I opted to keep since the Wastes was a huge out vs a resolved Blood Moon. I drew a bunch of lands which helped me curve out well enough, he slammed it on turn 4 like he was getting away with something, then I played the wastes and went smasher, smasher, smasher, win. Feels good bro.
1-1
Round 3 was against a Temur brew. This guy is a great player who likes to bring random crap. That said, G1 resulted in an 8/8 Scooze smashing into my face until I ran out of things to block with. G2 was me smashing and him scooping. G3 was a little closer but not really. Turns out TKS and Smasher are pretty good against tempo-based creature decks, even if they play Tarmo and Scooze.
2-1
Round 4 contains perhaps the greatest game of Magic I've ever played. Opponent was on Living End. G1 was pretty much just me smashing face and him finding everything except a cascade spell. G2 was Living End doing Living End things. G3, I just had to do it. I chose to draw. Opened my hand to 5 lands, Drowner of Hope, and Noble Hierarch, looks like a keeper to me. He plays a land passes, I draw a card and discard Drowner. Everyone in the area busted up laughing. Turn 2, I draw a card and discard a Thought-Knot Seer. Turn 3, I draw a card and discard a Thought-Knot Seer. And all of a sudden, everyone realizes, this could work... This leads to perhaps the grindiest game I've ever played against Living End. He eventually put a Fulminator Mage on the board, I had slowly gotten to 3 mana since I wasn't drawing things worth Discarding, so I throw down a Matter Reshaper. We trade some guys, and he eventually cascades into Living End. I get a bunch of huge *****, he gets a bunch more of not so huge *****. We trade dudes a bunch more, he resolves a 2nd Living End, I get a bunch of huge *****, he gets a bunch more of not so huge *****. My matter reshaper shapes into a Worship, he blows up my lands, and I end up in the situation where literally all I have left is a single Matter reshaper, and he's stacked the top of my deck with a forest. I play the forest, play the Noble I've had in my hand the entire game, pass turn. He swings for lethal, block with Matter Reshaper going to 1. Matter reshaper reveals a plains, put that into play, slam a Caverns next turn and put Worship into play. I then go on to put 2 Thought-Knot Seers and a Reality Smasher on the board where as he has a bunch of SSGs and a Monstrous Carabid, time is called, he's at 11. I swing with everything since I don't have to block anymore, he chumps all his guys except the Carabid to trade with the TKSs, drawing 2 cards, he's at 6. He wiffs, and I have exactly lethal on turn 5 of turns thanks to that damn Hierarch!
I know I stole that game, especially with Worship coming into play exactly when it did, but I don't even care, I beat Living End with a Dredge strategy, and though people may play a more strategic game of magic from time to time, they'll never play a better strategy than discarding 4/4s and 5/5s as a strat to beat Living End.
3-1
Round 5 is Jund. I'm coming off the high of having played the greatest game of magic ever and pretty much just smash face 2 games in a row. Ezpz.
I don't feel like Thalia and Arbiter are the best cards in the deck, far from it. The entire deck is basically an excuse to play TKS and Smasher, but they both do a good job of buying time for you to get to the fun stuff if you don't open your hand with a perfect 7.
Thanks for the write-up. I loved reading the game vs Living End. I really need to consider that line of discarding my fatties T1 and T2 as an option. I remember watching an older game (pre-eye ban) of Ali Aintrasi discarding Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger T1 against Living End on the draw. That was great! You might get wrecked by Faerie Macabre exiling the cards from the grave though.
Edit: So after watching it, the idea of replacing Ghost Quarter and another slot with Gavony Township has me intrigued. I didn't like the 3/2 split Ross had of Skyspawner and Matter Reshaper in the videos as it really did come back to bite him in the butt(so much removal). I do think he made some poor SB and hand keep choices(no Cages brought in with Snappy and GDD casting spells from the yard ). But he did comment on getting lots of land, but nothing to do with them. So maybe Oath of Nissa or Ajani, Mentor of Heroes?
Also I was reading the EMN spoiler thread and I thought they brought up a good point(they were arguing over Newmrakul over Newlamog in Tron), that being it is better to increase your win percentage against good match-ups than it is too dilute them to decrease your loss percentage against bad match-ups. I do think that is something we need to keep in mind going forward, that the best way to increase consistency(which is where the deck is lacking) is to increase good match-up win percentages.
I also had my Thursday night Modern and while I only went 2-2, part of that was variance:
Round 1 UR Delver (2-0)[1-0]:
This guy hadn't been playing Modern for a while and had to read my turn 2 TKS (after he bolted my face with a Swiftspear rather than my dork). I then dropped Reality Smasher and crunched in to end the game quickly. Game 2 he drops an early blood moon but I got a Displacer with Hierarch onboard so I just kept crunching in for 4 damage a turn. He made the grave mistake during the race to stack block with 2 Pyromancers (I assume he didn't have any spells in hand) and I blew him out with a path. His Swiftspear couldn't race my 4/4 Displacer (I did fade 3 turns worth of Bolts though so that was nice).
Round 2 Grixis Control (1-2)[1-1]:
Game 1 went pretty much according to plan. All I saw was Double Pyromancers and a Tasigur. I had him on Grixis Delver at this point based on the spells I had seen and the YP. Game 2 I drew into a pocket of like 6 lands and he ended up getting gas gas gas gas. The result is he had me locked off board due to a million kill spells and a Tasigur and Angler (which he topdecked the turn after I TKS'd him) and that was that. Game 3 my 7 card hand was all lands, my 6 card hand was no lands and my 5 got yanked by a T1 Inquisition. I ended up on a turn that had I not missed a land drop I'd have been fine on board but as it happened it made me fall behind and he was able to kill me. Sigh... variance.
Round 3 Bant Eldrazi (2-1)[2-1]:
Woot the mirror. This was one of the guys I play once a week almost (just by luck of the pairings), he was on Grixis Control but as of last week I had spoken with him about his intent to switch to this deck. His list was slightly different but the core was essentially the same. Game 1 he had essentially a version of the nuts. T2 Displacer, T3 TKS, T4 Smasher while I had a slightly slower hand that got demolished by the TKS. Game 2 one of the differences in our lists popped up. I am running the 2x Skyspawner. They actually gave me the ramp to drop a T3 Reality Smasher and eventually I got my 2 2/1 fliers to apply enough pressure with the boardstate to close out the game. Game 3 I saw some of his nifty mirror tech. He managed to come out of the game swinging early (Triple Noble, Displacer, Torpor Orb). I managed to finally draw an out when I was at 3 (My own Eldrazi Displacer). Because of Torpor Orb, the Drowner and Sky spawner in my hand wasn't that great but I had enough mana (colorless and otherwise) to flicker 3 things. He had only enough to flicker 1 and then 2 by the end. I stuck a matter Reshaper, Smasher and Sky Spawner and started applying pressure back. He couldn't draw into efficient gas (turns out he was holding a Gut Shot and was trying to get me to 1 to use it.. I even opted not to use a Spellskite activation and chumped with it instead when I was at 3... afterwards he applauded me for playing around it.. to be fair I was just doing the math. I had a fetch in hand for the U source I needed to pay for the activation without life and I couldn't use the fetch if I was at 1. Also if I go down to 1, I block with smasher which would have died and that wasn't a valid out). I had gotten to 3 Eldrazi Temples so at the end of his turn I blink his Displacer and Heirarch, I untapped and blinked his remaining 2 blockers which made it lethal no matter his blinks. Fun odd match with some hot and steamy Eldrazi Displacer on Eldrazi Displacer action. Bringing in the Torpor Orbs in the mirror was an interesting call. He was able to side out TKS (which becomes like the worst creature ever printed with Torpor Orb on board). I don't think it paid off for him though but he did draw into next to 0 threats in that game 3. I ended up with a Pithing Needle in hand but never got to use it (essentially the plan was that if he thought he could go on the offensive and tapped out to blink things on his turn (or play a creature that required colorless) I could then blink his team and drop Needle calling Displacer. I could then crash in for a lot of damage on the crack back but also leave blockers that now he can't blink away if he tried to crash in again. This would decidedly set up a following turn wide swing likely for lethal. He kept drawing awful things though so he never tapped out as I turned the corner and became the aggressor.
Round 4 Affinity (2-0)[2-2]:
Game 1 I had gotten to a point of stabilization. I stuck a Drowner of Hope which could tap down his important things and the following turn I was following up with Eldrazi Displacer with mana to blink it (essentially GG). My opponent ripped Spellskite off the top though and without and answer to it, he just wrecked me in the following 2 turns. Game 2 I couldn't draw into lands which would have saved me. Eldrazi Displacer managed to buy some turns blinking his Ornithopters with Plating but I couldn't get to land #6 for Drowner. They also drew double Ravager and found a Blast for my Displacer leaving me dead on board the following turn when I wiffed on a land.. sigh oh well.
I still really like where this deck is at. It's got a ton of game against most of the field and is extremely consistent.
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
To alleviate flooding problems I cut 1 land and I am also running Westvale Abbey. It makes a "bitterblossom" effect at EOT which keeps pressure on the board and lets you pay 1 life to kill Snapcasters or chump other big creatures. Occasionally you get 5 creatures and they have very few outs (unless they run Cryptic which not many lists do).
I regularly pull my Wastes and BoP out in post-board games, but I think the deck is trying to do too many things to permit us to add taplands and the like.
We REALLY REALLY want to go T2 TKS into T3 Reality Smasher. That is hands down the best play in the deck and I can't think of a deck in modern that is going to shrug that play off. This is what broke the format a few months ago.
We ALSO happen to have a very strong grinding game between Displacer and bouncing targets like Drowner and TKS.
Because all the good stuff in our deck costs 4+ mana, we have to play a significant amount of lands and those lands need to come into play untapped. I don't really know how to solve the problem other than sideboarding mana sources out during grindier MUs.
The one of Ghost Quarter has NEVER mattered enough even in an Affinity match I used it in (he just drew another moth land and still had me dead on board), so in comes Gavony and then I was looking at cards that could get creatures and the only one that could also get lands(for early game) was Oath of Nissa, and then I realized that Ajani combined both that effect and a Gavony effect so he can be both the second Gavony and second Oath. I think Skyspawners are okay, but in the grindy match-ups they aren't really that great and they really only shine against our already bad match-ups, but I think that is just diluting the deck to make the lose not feel so bad.
@broodwarjc
I totally agree with your logic in typical deck building and just focusing on doing what you do well rather than spending time, effort, and cards in making your losses less bad. But given where we are at with Eldrazi right now, I REALLY don't feel like it needs help winning the good MUs. If you can resolve a TKS and/or reality smasher in the early stages of a game, your chances of winning skyrocket, assuming you don't die next turn.
And that's where I think shoring up the problem MUs is worth investigating further. We don't need help beating decks that let us do our thing, we need help beating decks that kill us before we get there. This is why Noble is such a huge card. Not only does it give us increased chances of landing big threats early, it ALSO helps those threats hit even harder than usual. This is where the original justification for MD Spellskite came from. If it hits the board, it slows infect WAY down and buys you time to get your own guys to the opponents face and take the game. This is why I'm trying out things like Thalia and Arbiter. All I want to do is slow down my aggressive opponents. Thalia costs my opponent AT LEAST 1 extra mana if she resolves and Arbiter hits problematic MUs like Company and Valakut. it doesn't STOP them, it just slows them down, and that's all we really need.
I REALLY like Ajani and the idea you're working with there, I do. But I also feel like we tend not to need a lot of help against tempo and control. I have watched Jund tear my hand apart only to hit them with a turn 4 smasher and have the game instantly turn around.
My problems are consistently decks that get under what we're doing or not pulling interaction when I need it.
In the case of Eldrazi, I really think we need to focus on interacting with our faster opponents because our good cards can already carry us through the better MUs.
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
To alleviate flooding problems I cut 1 land and I am also running Westvale Abbey. It makes a "bitterblossom" effect at EOT which keeps pressure on the board and lets you pay 1 life to kill Snapcasters or chump other big creatures. Occasionally you get 5 creatures and they have very few outs (unless they run Cryptic which not many lists do).
yah I've also tested many flex lands. tapped lands are definitely to slow for this deck. Horizon canopy has been pretty good for me if you wanted to try that. being able to draw a card and filter your deck is huge I think. also being able to turn 1 birds/noble/path/ancient is awesome
I disagree with the notion that we must focus mostly on increasing our already good matchups. Our matchups vs the majority of control and midrange decks is in our favor. There aren't many cards we need to shore up the bad matchups really. Some of the really bad matchups like Scapeshift, 8 whack, and Merfolk would require changing around some like 6+ cards in the deck just for those, then it isn't worth it. It sort of is like Abzan Company against RG Tron - the general consensus is to just accept that the Tron matchup is Abyssmal and not dedicate that many cards for it. Instead just focus on the almost even matchups and interacting with hate cards that stop your gameplan.
The #1 gameplan for this deck, and one that almost ANY deck has trouble beating is T2 TKS into T3 Smasher. Maximizing that chance will give us a higher win percentage against all matchups. The only times it can be an issue is with decks that can outrace us - that get under us, like 8 whack, Affinity, Infect, and small Zoo. There you would rather get all your removal spells, gum up the ground, and then slowly whittle your way to victory (see the article Who is the Beat Down for the theory here basically). Finding a way to more easily stabilize in those matchups without harming our other matchups I think is where this deck needs to go. And then you make the deck-building decisions based on the expected meta representation of those decks.
Affinity and Infect are very heavily played in most metas, so Skyspawner and Spellskite to me are easy includes. Spellskite though not an aggressive card obviously, will shore up some bad matchups and allow us to protect our bigger threats (where again, we usually win through TKS and Smasher beatdowns). Skyspawner is bad against Electrolyze / Forked Bolt decks, okay vs mid-range/control decks, and great vs aggro decks for 2 bodies in 1 and the ability to block early flyers. Matter Reshaper is good vs removal heavy decks and grindy decks as well as decent vs some aggro decks as a road block, but does nothing against Affinity and Infect where it almost never can actually block. I think Spellskite, Skyspawner, and Reshaper are the flex slots in the deck that you split however you like and everything else stays as is. Then based on your maindeck you have a similar sideboard to most of the 15 you're seeing around.
At least my opinion on the matter. I was trying Oath of Nissa for a while to help deal with flooding, but when I think of the card I cut for it, I almost always would rather have had that card there instead. So I ended up cutting Oath and going back to a more standard 60. I really want to test Finks as a great value creature to shore up our matchups vs early aggro decks so will be trying that next (see my recent write up where I post such a build).
I disagree with the notion that we must focus mostly on increasing our already good matchups. Our matchups vs the majority of control and midrange decks is in our favor. There aren't many cards we need to shore up the bad matchups really. Some of the really bad matchups like Scapeshift, 8 whack, and Merfolk would require changing around some like 6+ cards in the deck just for those, then it isn't worth it. It sort of is like Abzan Company against RG Tron - the general consensus is to just accept that the Tron matchup is Abyssmal and not dedicate that many cards for it. Instead just focus on the almost even matchups and interacting with hate cards that stop your gameplan.
The #1 gameplan for this deck, and one that almost ANY deck has trouble beating is T2 TKS into T3 Smasher. Maximizing that chance will give us a higher win percentage against all matchups. The only times it can be an issue is with decks that can outrace us - that get under us, like 8 whack, Affinity, Infect, and small Zoo. There you would rather get all your removal spells, gum up the ground, and then slowly whittle your way to victory (see the article Who is the Beat Down for the theory here basically). Finding a way to more easily stabilize in those matchups without harming our other matchups I think is where this deck needs to go. And then you make the deck-building decisions based on the expected meta representation of those decks.
Affinity and Infect are very heavily played in most metas, so Skyspawner and Spellskite to me are easy includes. Spellskite though not an aggressive card obviously, will shore up some bad matchups and allow us to protect our bigger threats (where again, we usually win through TKS and Smasher beatdowns). Skyspawner is bad against Electrolyze / Forked Bolt decks, okay vs mid-range/control decks, and great vs aggro decks for 2 bodies in 1 and the ability to block early flyers. Matter Reshaper is good vs removal heavy decks and grindy decks as well as decent vs some aggro decks as a road block, but does nothing against Affinity and Infect where it almost never can actually block. I think Spellskite, Skyspawner, and Reshaper are the flex slots in the deck that you split however you like and everything else stays as is. Then based on your maindeck you have a similar sideboard to most of the 15 you're seeing around.
At least my opinion on the matter. I was trying Oath of Nissa for a while to help deal with flooding, but when I think of the card I cut for it, I almost always would rather have had that card there instead. So I ended up cutting Oath and going back to a more standard 60. I really want to test Finks as a great value creature to shore up our matchups vs early aggro decks so will be trying that next (see my recent write up where I post such a build).
I have found finks to be really good. I play 3 instead of timely.
Has anyone considered Warping Wail? I'm going to test it out and see how it goes. It seems like it hits a lot of things we want to hit, but maybe it's just not strong enough to mainboard and I don't feel like it's something I want to side in. I'll definitely report back after testing though.
I play in a meta that always has some amount of affinity, and that m/up is very bad trying to find something for my flex slots that arnt also bad in other m/up. Seems it could also help vs jund which I have also been finding a bit tough
For all questions about trying a new card - what would you replace in the typical shell with it? Township I can see as a replacement of a utility land (i.e. Ghost Quarter). I rarely feel I need Township to close out my matches. I'll either have a commanding presence already, or I'll just have 1-2 Eldrazi on board where pumping it up slightly won't make much of a difference.
So the core is 24 lands, 20 creatures and 8 spells (52 cards). The 8 flex slots then can be split however you like or tailored towards your meta. Typical cards in the flex slots include:
Those are some of the most commonly played cards in the flex slots. Spellskite and Reshaper are in the typical build. To better deal with Infect and Affinity, Skyspawner usually gets the nod as well. When you think of a card you want to add think about how it fits in these 8 flex slots to continue to give the deck strong matchups vs the majority of the field.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I think it massively depends on your build. If you're on the 4 matter reshaper/2 stubborn denial maindeck you're in pure race against infect and affinity g1 will you'll not beat without some luck.
Round 1: 8 whack goblins (1-2)
Summary - this deck is just too fast for us. Game 2 I won with a god hand of T2 TKS, T3 Smasher, T4 Timely. I've now changed my mind on the 8 whack / zoo matchups, they are not even, we are definitely unfavored.
Round 2: Infect (2-0)
G1: Skyspawner, Displacer, Path, and TKS kept him at bay and Drowner closed it out.
G2: Spellskite and Skyspawner shut him down hard. Eventually ran him over with Smasher and Drowner with Displacer.
Round 3: Mono U Tron (2-1)
G1: I still cannot believe I won this game. He contortioned by Displacer and I flooded out hard. He had Tron plus some islands in play and I couldn't draw my Cavern for a dozen turns. He had the Spell Burst lock for a while, so I just played a land and passed for many turns until I could cast two spells or otherwise get through the Spell Burst buyback lock. He ended up nearly tapping out for Sundering Titan destroying 3 of my lands. I was able to path it on his end step though and then resolved some creatures. I eventually won after an extremely long game and Cavern of Souls letting me play out the rest of my creatures counter-free. A highlight was on his draw step, displacing my TKS 3 times to remove all relevant cards from his hand (Ugin, Platinum Angel, Mindslaver). He had a Silent Arbiter in play that was holding me back for a while.
G2: I pathed 1 Wurmcoil, but he had Treasure Maged and then played another. I had no answer for it. He would attack for 6 lifelink, I would then swing back with Smasher for 5 damage. He was down to a low life total but I just could not get the cards I needed to shutdown the Wurmcoil and close out the game.
G3: We were running low on time (about 6 minutes) so went as fast as we could. There were a couple turns of trying to resolve a moderate threat like Reshaper or Skyspawner, him countering it, then me casting Stirrings afterwards to grab another threat. Cavern eventually shut down his counter game. He cast a Sundering Titan destroying 2 of my lands. I had a Hierarch, Displacer, TKS, and Reality Smasher in play though. Next turn I blinked his Sundering Titan for the best turn of the game - it left the battlefield, so he had to destroy one of his islands, then re-enters and he lost another island, putting him down to just Mine, PP, Tower, Academy Ruins, then I swung for 12 bringing him down to 2. He had a Batterskull on the battlefield and tried to equip it to Sundering Titan, he didn't notice I had exactly 3 mana available including the Hierarch and bounced it again. He conceded as we were at T4 at the time and I had lethal next turn.
Round 4 - Infect (2-1)
G1: Skyspawner and multiple Paths shut him down, then I closed out the game with some other eldrazi.
G2: I don't remember the details here other than he played a few cantrips early without committing anything to the board, then resolved Blighted Agent and I wasn't able to remove it. He won with Agent + Pendelhaven + Pumps (including vines)
G3: Skyspawner, Path, Ghost Quarter, and Stubborn Denial all did work here on shutting him down. TKS and Reality Smasher closed out the game in a hurry afterwards.
Overall... (3-1)
Maybe it's just bad variance, but games vs Goblins, Merfolk, and Zoo are really really tough to win. Any deck that goes wide and fast is tough for this deck. Not sure what else to do there. I still am sticking with Spellskite and Skyspawner in the main due to my local meta being so Infect heavy (2nd week in a row I played two infect players in the 4 round event). Funny thing is I'm pretty sure I am undefeated in best of 3s vs Infect with this variation of the build - both online and in person. Stubborn Denial in the main never really came up as useful in any Game 1s I played today. It was good vs Infect in a G3, but I would have sided it in there anyways. I'll still keep 2 Denials in the main for now, but that might change with more testing.
Online (Xmage) the meta is far more varied so I've been testing multiple variations. I tested Thalia for a little while and just did not like top-decking her at all. She also died to just everything possible. Wasn't really feeling like she was doing the work I wanted. I now am testing Wall of Omens which I'm unsure about, but some card draw and another flicker target has been nice in some situations. I'll continue to test the 2 drop slot more.
For my local meta, the only changes I can see is the 2 slots where I have Stubborn Denials in the main - I could go from 2 Reshaper 2 Skyspawner to some other split of Reshaper and Skyspawner, or I could just fit in 2 Kitchen Finks or something similar to give us a better G1 vs aggro decks. The build I'm thinking of for my local meta:
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
LANDS (24)
1 Breeding Pool
3 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Temple Garden
1 Wastes
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Matter Reshaper
2 Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
1 Dismember
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
1 World Breaker
1 Gut Shot
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Thragtusk
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Stubborn Denial
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Here's the list again, since I know I'm a bit off the beaten path:
3x Brushland
2x Yavimaya Coast
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Temple Garden
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Wastes
4x Windswept Heath
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Eldrazi Skyspawner
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Drowner of Hope
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Sorcery (4)
4x Ancient Stirrings
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
2x Dismember
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Leonin Arbiter
2x Stony Silence
2x Stubborn Denial
3x Worship
A lot of people were concerned with my inclusion of Thalia in the MD and Arbiter in the side, but all I have to say to that is "I REGRET NOTHING!"
Quick rundown:
Round 1 was against Company, and it did Company things. I lost G1 uneventfully, and G2 even with an Arbiter in play, he just CoCo'd his way to victory. I drew 1 interactive spell across 2 games.
0-1
Round 2 was against Blue Moon. Kill all my dudes into T4 Blood Moon into T5 Batterskull. That's G1. G2 I smashed, completely uneventful. G3, my hand had was a bunch of big dudes, and Temple Garden and a Wastes. I opted to keep since the Wastes was a huge out vs a resolved Blood Moon. I drew a bunch of lands which helped me curve out well enough, he slammed it on turn 4 like he was getting away with something, then I played the wastes and went smasher, smasher, smasher, win. Feels good bro.
1-1
Round 3 was against a Temur brew. This guy is a great player who likes to bring random crap. That said, G1 resulted in an 8/8 Scooze smashing into my face until I ran out of things to block with. G2 was me smashing and him scooping. G3 was a little closer but not really. Turns out TKS and Smasher are pretty good against tempo-based creature decks, even if they play Tarmo and Scooze.
2-1
Round 4 contains perhaps the greatest game of Magic I've ever played. Opponent was on Living End. G1 was pretty much just me smashing face and him finding everything except a cascade spell. G2 was Living End doing Living End things. G3, I just had to do it. I chose to draw. Opened my hand to 5 lands, Drowner of Hope, and Noble Hierarch, looks like a keeper to me. He plays a land passes, I draw a card and discard Drowner. Everyone in the area busted up laughing. Turn 2, I draw a card and discard a Thought-Knot Seer. Turn 3, I draw a card and discard a Thought-Knot Seer. And all of a sudden, everyone realizes, this could work... This leads to perhaps the grindiest game I've ever played against Living End. He eventually put a Fulminator Mage on the board, I had slowly gotten to 3 mana since I wasn't drawing things worth Discarding, so I throw down a Matter Reshaper. We trade some guys, and he eventually cascades into Living End. I get a bunch of huge *****, he gets a bunch more of not so huge *****. We trade dudes a bunch more, he resolves a 2nd Living End, I get a bunch of huge *****, he gets a bunch more of not so huge *****. My matter reshaper shapes into a Worship, he blows up my lands, and I end up in the situation where literally all I have left is a single Matter reshaper, and he's stacked the top of my deck with a forest. I play the forest, play the Noble I've had in my hand the entire game, pass turn. He swings for lethal, block with Matter Reshaper going to 1. Matter reshaper reveals a plains, put that into play, slam a Caverns next turn and put Worship into play. I then go on to put 2 Thought-Knot Seers and a Reality Smasher on the board where as he has a bunch of SSGs and a Monstrous Carabid, time is called, he's at 11. I swing with everything since I don't have to block anymore, he chumps all his guys except the Carabid to trade with the TKSs, drawing 2 cards, he's at 6. He wiffs, and I have exactly lethal on turn 5 of turns thanks to that damn Hierarch!
I know I stole that game, especially with Worship coming into play exactly when it did, but I don't even care, I beat Living End with a Dredge strategy, and though people may play a more strategic game of magic from time to time, they'll never play a better strategy than discarding 4/4s and 5/5s as a strat to beat Living End.
3-1
Round 5 is Jund. I'm coming off the high of having played the greatest game of magic ever and pretty much just smash face 2 games in a row. Ezpz.
I don't feel like Thalia and Arbiter are the best cards in the deck, far from it. The entire deck is basically an excuse to play TKS and Smasher, but they both do a good job of buying time for you to get to the fun stuff if you don't open your hand with a perfect 7.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Edit: So after watching it, the idea of replacing Ghost Quarter and another slot with Gavony Township has me intrigued. I didn't like the 3/2 split Ross had of Skyspawner and Matter Reshaper in the videos as it really did come back to bite him in the butt(so much removal). I do think he made some poor SB and hand keep choices(no Cages brought in with Snappy and GDD casting spells from the yard ). But he did comment on getting lots of land, but nothing to do with them. So maybe Oath of Nissa or Ajani, Mentor of Heroes?
Also I was reading the EMN spoiler thread and I thought they brought up a good point(they were arguing over Newmrakul over Newlamog in Tron), that being it is better to increase your win percentage against good match-ups than it is too dilute them to decrease your loss percentage against bad match-ups. I do think that is something we need to keep in mind going forward, that the best way to increase consistency(which is where the deck is lacking) is to increase good match-up win percentages.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Round 1 UR Delver (2-0)[1-0]:
This guy hadn't been playing Modern for a while and had to read my turn 2 TKS (after he bolted my face with a Swiftspear rather than my dork). I then dropped Reality Smasher and crunched in to end the game quickly. Game 2 he drops an early blood moon but I got a Displacer with Hierarch onboard so I just kept crunching in for 4 damage a turn. He made the grave mistake during the race to stack block with 2 Pyromancers (I assume he didn't have any spells in hand) and I blew him out with a path. His Swiftspear couldn't race my 4/4 Displacer (I did fade 3 turns worth of Bolts though so that was nice).
Round 2 Grixis Control (1-2)[1-1]:
Game 1 went pretty much according to plan. All I saw was Double Pyromancers and a Tasigur. I had him on Grixis Delver at this point based on the spells I had seen and the YP. Game 2 I drew into a pocket of like 6 lands and he ended up getting gas gas gas gas. The result is he had me locked off board due to a million kill spells and a Tasigur and Angler (which he topdecked the turn after I TKS'd him) and that was that. Game 3 my 7 card hand was all lands, my 6 card hand was no lands and my 5 got yanked by a T1 Inquisition. I ended up on a turn that had I not missed a land drop I'd have been fine on board but as it happened it made me fall behind and he was able to kill me. Sigh... variance.
Round 3 Bant Eldrazi (2-1)[2-1]:
Woot the mirror. This was one of the guys I play once a week almost (just by luck of the pairings), he was on Grixis Control but as of last week I had spoken with him about his intent to switch to this deck. His list was slightly different but the core was essentially the same. Game 1 he had essentially a version of the nuts. T2 Displacer, T3 TKS, T4 Smasher while I had a slightly slower hand that got demolished by the TKS. Game 2 one of the differences in our lists popped up. I am running the 2x Skyspawner. They actually gave me the ramp to drop a T3 Reality Smasher and eventually I got my 2 2/1 fliers to apply enough pressure with the boardstate to close out the game. Game 3 I saw some of his nifty mirror tech. He managed to come out of the game swinging early (Triple Noble, Displacer, Torpor Orb). I managed to finally draw an out when I was at 3 (My own Eldrazi Displacer). Because of Torpor Orb, the Drowner and Sky spawner in my hand wasn't that great but I had enough mana (colorless and otherwise) to flicker 3 things. He had only enough to flicker 1 and then 2 by the end. I stuck a matter Reshaper, Smasher and Sky Spawner and started applying pressure back. He couldn't draw into efficient gas (turns out he was holding a Gut Shot and was trying to get me to 1 to use it.. I even opted not to use a Spellskite activation and chumped with it instead when I was at 3... afterwards he applauded me for playing around it.. to be fair I was just doing the math. I had a fetch in hand for the U source I needed to pay for the activation without life and I couldn't use the fetch if I was at 1. Also if I go down to 1, I block with smasher which would have died and that wasn't a valid out). I had gotten to 3 Eldrazi Temples so at the end of his turn I blink his Displacer and Heirarch, I untapped and blinked his remaining 2 blockers which made it lethal no matter his blinks. Fun odd match with some hot and steamy Eldrazi Displacer on Eldrazi Displacer action. Bringing in the Torpor Orbs in the mirror was an interesting call. He was able to side out TKS (which becomes like the worst creature ever printed with Torpor Orb on board). I don't think it paid off for him though but he did draw into next to 0 threats in that game 3. I ended up with a Pithing Needle in hand but never got to use it (essentially the plan was that if he thought he could go on the offensive and tapped out to blink things on his turn (or play a creature that required colorless) I could then blink his team and drop Needle calling Displacer. I could then crash in for a lot of damage on the crack back but also leave blockers that now he can't blink away if he tried to crash in again. This would decidedly set up a following turn wide swing likely for lethal. He kept drawing awful things though so he never tapped out as I turned the corner and became the aggressor.
Round 4 Affinity (2-0)[2-2]:
Game 1 I had gotten to a point of stabilization. I stuck a Drowner of Hope which could tap down his important things and the following turn I was following up with Eldrazi Displacer with mana to blink it (essentially GG). My opponent ripped Spellskite off the top though and without and answer to it, he just wrecked me in the following 2 turns. Game 2 I couldn't draw into lands which would have saved me. Eldrazi Displacer managed to buy some turns blinking his Ornithopters with Plating but I couldn't get to land #6 for Drowner. They also drew double Ravager and found a Blast for my Displacer leaving me dead on board the following turn when I wiffed on a land.. sigh oh well.
I still really like where this deck is at. It's got a ton of game against most of the field and is extremely consistent.
Ross got certainly crushed by Grixis.
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
To alleviate flooding problems I cut 1 land and I am also running Westvale Abbey. It makes a "bitterblossom" effect at EOT which keeps pressure on the board and lets you pay 1 life to kill Snapcasters or chump other big creatures. Occasionally you get 5 creatures and they have very few outs (unless they run Cryptic which not many lists do).
We REALLY REALLY want to go T2 TKS into T3 Reality Smasher. That is hands down the best play in the deck and I can't think of a deck in modern that is going to shrug that play off. This is what broke the format a few months ago.
We ALSO happen to have a very strong grinding game between Displacer and bouncing targets like Drowner and TKS.
Because all the good stuff in our deck costs 4+ mana, we have to play a significant amount of lands and those lands need to come into play untapped. I don't really know how to solve the problem other than sideboarding mana sources out during grindier MUs.
4 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Spellskite
Spells:
4 Path to Exile
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Forest
1 Wastes
1 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
3 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Gavony Township
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stubborn Denial
1 World Breaker
2 Stony Silence
1 Gut Shot
1 Dismember
1 Negate
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Thragtusk
The one of Ghost Quarter has NEVER mattered enough even in an Affinity match I used it in (he just drew another moth land and still had me dead on board), so in comes Gavony and then I was looking at cards that could get creatures and the only one that could also get lands(for early game) was Oath of Nissa, and then I realized that Ajani combined both that effect and a Gavony effect so he can be both the second Gavony and second Oath. I think Skyspawners are okay, but in the grindy match-ups they aren't really that great and they really only shine against our already bad match-ups, but I think that is just diluting the deck to make the lose not feel so bad.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
I totally agree with your logic in typical deck building and just focusing on doing what you do well rather than spending time, effort, and cards in making your losses less bad. But given where we are at with Eldrazi right now, I REALLY don't feel like it needs help winning the good MUs. If you can resolve a TKS and/or reality smasher in the early stages of a game, your chances of winning skyrocket, assuming you don't die next turn.
And that's where I think shoring up the problem MUs is worth investigating further. We don't need help beating decks that let us do our thing, we need help beating decks that kill us before we get there. This is why Noble is such a huge card. Not only does it give us increased chances of landing big threats early, it ALSO helps those threats hit even harder than usual. This is where the original justification for MD Spellskite came from. If it hits the board, it slows infect WAY down and buys you time to get your own guys to the opponents face and take the game. This is why I'm trying out things like Thalia and Arbiter. All I want to do is slow down my aggressive opponents. Thalia costs my opponent AT LEAST 1 extra mana if she resolves and Arbiter hits problematic MUs like Company and Valakut. it doesn't STOP them, it just slows them down, and that's all we really need.
I REALLY like Ajani and the idea you're working with there, I do. But I also feel like we tend not to need a lot of help against tempo and control. I have watched Jund tear my hand apart only to hit them with a turn 4 smasher and have the game instantly turn around.
My problems are consistently decks that get under what we're doing or not pulling interaction when I need it.
In the case of Eldrazi, I really think we need to focus on interacting with our faster opponents because our good cards can already carry us through the better MUs.
yah I've also tested many flex lands. tapped lands are definitely to slow for this deck. Horizon canopy has been pretty good for me if you wanted to try that. being able to draw a card and filter your deck is huge I think. also being able to turn 1 birds/noble/path/ancient is awesome
The #1 gameplan for this deck, and one that almost ANY deck has trouble beating is T2 TKS into T3 Smasher. Maximizing that chance will give us a higher win percentage against all matchups. The only times it can be an issue is with decks that can outrace us - that get under us, like 8 whack, Affinity, Infect, and small Zoo. There you would rather get all your removal spells, gum up the ground, and then slowly whittle your way to victory (see the article Who is the Beat Down for the theory here basically). Finding a way to more easily stabilize in those matchups without harming our other matchups I think is where this deck needs to go. And then you make the deck-building decisions based on the expected meta representation of those decks.
Affinity and Infect are very heavily played in most metas, so Skyspawner and Spellskite to me are easy includes. Spellskite though not an aggressive card obviously, will shore up some bad matchups and allow us to protect our bigger threats (where again, we usually win through TKS and Smasher beatdowns). Skyspawner is bad against Electrolyze / Forked Bolt decks, okay vs mid-range/control decks, and great vs aggro decks for 2 bodies in 1 and the ability to block early flyers. Matter Reshaper is good vs removal heavy decks and grindy decks as well as decent vs some aggro decks as a road block, but does nothing against Affinity and Infect where it almost never can actually block. I think Spellskite, Skyspawner, and Reshaper are the flex slots in the deck that you split however you like and everything else stays as is. Then based on your maindeck you have a similar sideboard to most of the 15 you're seeing around.
At least my opinion on the matter. I was trying Oath of Nissa for a while to help deal with flooding, but when I think of the card I cut for it, I almost always would rather have had that card there instead. So I ended up cutting Oath and going back to a more standard 60. I really want to test Finks as a great value creature to shore up our matchups vs early aggro decks so will be trying that next (see my recent write up where I post such a build).
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I have found finks to be really good. I play 3 instead of timely.
anyone tried running engineered explosives main?
I play in a meta that always has some amount of affinity, and that m/up is very bad trying to find something for my flex slots that arnt also bad in other m/up. Seems it could also help vs jund which I have also been finding a bit tough
I think I will try cutting 1 of my basic forests for it, run 2 but nothing is double green anyway.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
The core of the deck:
24 lands (4 Eldrazi Temple, 3-4 Cavern, 2-3 shocks, 3-4 fetches, 2-3 basics, etc)
CREATURES (26-28)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
4 Path to Exile
4 Ancient Stirrings
So the core is 24 lands, 20 creatures and 8 spells (52 cards). The 8 flex slots then can be split however you like or tailored towards your meta. Typical cards in the flex slots include:
Spellskite
Eldrazi Skyspawner
Matter Reshaper
Birds of Paradise
Eldrazi Mimic
Stubborn Denial
Those are some of the most commonly played cards in the flex slots. Spellskite and Reshaper are in the typical build. To better deal with Infect and Affinity, Skyspawner usually gets the nod as well. When you think of a card you want to add think about how it fits in these 8 flex slots to continue to give the deck strong matchups vs the majority of the field.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots