Goyf still are an incredibly efficient 2-drop that grows throughout the game, even if this build doesn't really lend itself to helping it much. It relies heavily on your opponent putting some stuff in their grave. What options does this deck really have for 2 drops?
Thalia : minor nombo if you're playing Stubborn Denials in the main and so on, also is legendary and only a 2/1 that never grows.
Goyf : relies very heavily on the opponent growing him for you. Also is extremely expensive, though that should not matter for the pure spikes.
Spellskite : does nothing offensively, but avoids a lot of damage based removal, protects our other creatures, and shores up some weak Game 1s.
Scooze : can grow or hate out graveyard based synergies at least. Seems decent.
Sylvan Advocate : quickly grows to become a Goyf with vigilance after a few land drops. A budget goyf.
Wall of Omens : card-draw that can be flickered for more as well, and a solid early body to stop some aggro. Does nothing offensively again.
Leonin Arbiter : slows down a lot of other decks and gives us a better Game 1 vs Scapeshift / Valukut related decks.
Sigiled Starfish : just kidding, though a pet-card of mine in limited
Or perhaps it might be best to give up the 2 drop slot and just jump to 3 drops like Kitchen Finks in the main instead.
In my testing with Thalia so far, she has felt good playing on T2. Still need more games in with her to get a better feel of her taking the place of Spellskite. She is only good in the early game, so a terrible topdeck. When someone is at 4+ mana her ability text and her P/T doesn't matter anymore at that point. Spellskite I liked because I could still protect my other creatures at worst when I top decked him. He also blocks a lot better and dodges more removal. Still undecided...
Sylvan Advocate? I slightly kid but it's a static 2/3 vigilance and I seem to have no problem making land drops at times... thing is a monster in standard.
Goyf still are an incredibly efficient 2-drop that grows throughout the game, even if this build doesn't really lend itself to helping it much. It relies heavily on your opponent putting some stuff in their grave. What options does this deck really have for 2 drops?
Thalia : minor nombo if you're playing Stubborn Denials in the main and so on, also is legendary and only a 2/1 that never grows.
Goyf : relies very heavily on the opponent growing him for you. Also is extremely expensive, though that should not matter for the pure spikes.
Spellskite : does nothing offensively, but avoids a lot of damage based removal, protects our other creatures, and shores up some weak Game 1s.
Scooze : can grow or hate out graveyard based synergies at least. Seems decent.
Sylvan Advocate : quickly grows to become a Goyf with vigilance after a few land drops. A budget goyf.
Wall of Omens : card-draw that can be flickered for more as well, and a solid early body to stop some aggro. Does nothing offensively again.
Leonin Arbiter : slows down a lot of other decks and gives us a better Game 1 vs Scapeshift / Valukut related decks.
Sigiled Starfish : just kidding, though a pet-card of mine in limited
Or perhaps it might be best to give up the 2 drop slot and just jump to 3 drops like Kitchen Finks in the main instead.
In my testing with Thalia so far, she has felt good playing on T2. Still need more games in with her to get a better feel of her taking the place of Spellskite. She is only good in the early game, so a terrible topdeck. When someone is at 4+ mana her ability text and her P/T doesn't matter anymore at that point. Spellskite I liked because I could still protect my other creatures at worst when I top decked him. He also blocks a lot better and dodges more removal. Still undecided...
Sylvan Advocate? I slightly kid but it's a static 2/3 vigilance and I seem to have no problem making land drops at times... thing is a monster in standard.
What about Snapcaster mage to flash back stirrings, path, or stubborn denial?
Snappy is not worth playing with a typical 8 spells (up to 10) in the MD.
I DO think that Advocate is interesting though, the Vigilance makes her very annoying to deal with.
I am still sticking with Thalia - as my goal with the 2 and 3-drops is to shore up my bad MUs as best as possible. TKS, Smashy, and Drowner do more than enough to get me there in the less problematic MUs.
Skyspawner is the first 3 drop that comes to mind that we want that can come down on turn 2 reliably, I generally don't have a problem jumping to 3 mana on turn 2 for Eldrazi(If the opponent slows me down by bolting Hierarch they also slow themselves down).
Sylvan Advocate is just too easy to kill, he fails the bolt test too long, IMO, but even then we don't have any land creatures for him to buff and until he becomes a 4/5 he just trades unfavorably with too many things (Finks, Reshaper, Voice, Scooze needs to eat only one creature to beat it, ect...).
Hey everyone. Just started playing this deck on MTGO. Like it. I played colorless Eldrazi during their "reign of terror." and I miss playing broken stuff. Played a couple games in the queues and it certainly feels powerful and enjoyable to play.
Wall of Omens: Would this card make turn 2 a little clunky since there's typically 3 mana available? I love this card, and it seems to fit the control side of this deck's disruptive behavior (see Drowner of Hope's name in that it just makes opponent's attacks null which this card can do while we take our time to get set up). It still seems worth testing, though.
Warping Wail: I've loved this card in action. It is great. In here it can help ensure 4-5 mana on T3. It was great in Colorless Eldrazi and I always main decked 1-2. I'll begin testing this one and Wall of Omens.
I know I'm dealing in fantasy maybe it will be great land but what about the new 3 drop go grab an eldrazi card? Would a "toolbox" eldrazi sideboard be worth the effort? I'll stick to cards we have now from here on out.
The matchup vs fish seems unfavorable in my testing. We either give them Islandwalk with Hallowed Fountain or they Spreading Seas us (which also mana screws us by not giving us a colorless source and slows us down). Then they can dump their hand and outrace us pretty easily. Game 1 key cards are Path, Drowner, and Displacer. Sideboard you bring in Dismembers and Explosives. Timely Reinforcements doesn't do enough since they almost always are unblockable - it mostly just reads "(2)(W) gain 6 life put three 1/1 soldiers on the battlefield that cannot block and must attack every turn". EE on 2 vs their non Reejery draws is pretty back breaking for them typically - clears their Spreading Seas and Lords.
Per forum rules, we cannot discuss new unreleased cards in this thread.
The problem I have with mimic us that it's an awesome early drop but just horrible late game. He either puts too much pressure for the other play or he does absolutely nothing. There seems to be no in between.
I am not sure on Elspth, Knight Errant as the double White requirement might screw me in a few games, and Eldrazi Mimic just seems awkward as the deck usually goes 1 drop -> 3/4 drop, it was better when we had 8 lands that gave 2 mana on turn 1 to go 2 drop -> 4 drop, but we usually curve differently now(playing more blue for the Stubborn Denials also helps with playing the Skyspawners). Any further thoughts?
@broodwarjc : looks solid to me. Though with 2 mainboard Stubborn Denials, I don't think you need 2 Negates in the side as well. Maybe a 2nd Spellskite, or a Gutshot, or a Fracturing Gusts to take some of those sideboard slots instead? Depends on what type of meta you expect to be facing. More Infect heavy - I would replace the Negates with another Spellskite and Gutshot. More Affinity heavy - replace the Negates with Gutshot and Fracturing Gusts. I've found Gut Shot to consistently overperform every matchup where I bring it in - T0 answers to Glistener Elf, and ways to get someone to overcommit on their X/1 while you're tapped out and then you get them (has also been very good against Melira Company hitting Viscera Seer to have an instant answer to the combo while tapped out).
@broodwarjc : looks solid to me. Though with 2 mainboard Stubborn Denials, I don't think you need 2 Negates in the side as well. Maybe a 2nd Spellskite, or a Gutshot, or a Fracturing Gusts to take some of those sideboard slots instead? Depends on what type of meta you expect to be facing. More Infect heavy - I would replace the Negates with another Spellskite and Gutshot. More Affinity heavy - replace the Negates with Gutshot and Fracturing Gusts. I've found Gut Shot to consistently overperform every matchup where I bring it in - T0 answers to Glistener Elf, and ways to get someone to overcommit on their X/1 while you're tapped out and then you get them (has also been very good against Melira Company hitting Viscera Seer to have an instant answer to the combo while tapped out).
Negate helps against Tron and Valakut both decks we don't have the best games against and both decks will show up in a meta full of Jund and Jeskai. The aggro match-ups are harsh and you just kind of hope to avoid them, I think I might go -1 Negate for +1 Fracturing Gust as that at least hits Boggles, Affinity, and U Tron.
It's very difficult to win a counter war against Scapeshift decks so I wouldn't hedge on Negates being as good as you think there. I remember playing UW Control against my friend's Scapeshift deck and pretty much the only way to win there was to resolve a flashed in Aven Mindcensor and protect it. Otherwise it's like - they cast Scapeshift with 4 mana untapped, you Negate, they Remand, you let it resolve and try again (assuming you had 4 mana untapped), they Leak it and then Scapeshift resolves and you die. Disruption plus pressure is how you win vs Scapeshift. Even if you win a counter war, you still need enough pressure behind it to close out the game before they draw into another Scapeshift. Somewhat similar to how we win vs Tron in that respect.
I'm not sold on maindeck stubborn denial. I haven't played with it but looking back at games there are far more times where I'm happy with the spellskite than I would be with the denial. Adding 2 denial is not going to make tron or scapeshift favourable whereas landing a spellskite against infect or boggles is a straight gg if they can't kill it.
I'm a big fan of timely but I struggle to justify the card in the deck. Too often against decks where I want this I'm facing down 1 or 2 guys and I've got 2 or 3 on my side and all I'm doing is gaining 6 life. I've been highly impressed with thragtusk. That guy is an absolute house and if you manage to get displacer tusk going it's a massacre. He's just so strong against so many things. Jund, UWx, tron, aggro, burn. I like him pretty much in every matchup but infect, affinity and fast combo like storm or ad nauseam. Currently have 2 tusk 1 timely in the board. I'd consider 3 tusks but it's a little too difficult to cast consistently on turn 3 and the deck is already running a very high curve.
At least with the list I was using it was 6 mana dorks + 3 skyspawners so a turn 3 thragtusk is a lot more realistic than with the lists getting posted here. Anyway even if he gets bolted you still gained the life and have a body. I think the card is relevant because for example thoughtknot easily gets bogged down behind a tasigur or goyf and it's always scary to attack into a deck running red if they have any blockers on board. Tusk can just bash in fearlessly, trade with the 5 toughness dudes, eat 2 removal spells or 2 creatures.
Planeswalkers are the biggest issue for this deck by a long way. What I love is that you can't downtick lili without a blocker when tusk is in play. Equally tapping out for nahiri you can't kill tusk without losing her in response. Karn can't eat it same with ugin. Being resistant to all the commonly played walkers is huge.
Sylvan Advocate? I slightly kid but it's a static 2/3 vigilance and I seem to have no problem making land drops at times... thing is a monster in standard.
What about Snapcaster mage to flash back stirrings, path, or stubborn denial?
I DO think that Advocate is interesting though, the Vigilance makes her very annoying to deal with.
I am still sticking with Thalia - as my goal with the 2 and 3-drops is to shore up my bad MUs as best as possible. TKS, Smashy, and Drowner do more than enough to get me there in the less problematic MUs.
Skyspawner is the first 3 drop that comes to mind that we want that can come down on turn 2 reliably, I generally don't have a problem jumping to 3 mana on turn 2 for Eldrazi(If the opponent slows me down by bolting Hierarch they also slow themselves down).
Sylvan Advocate is just too easy to kill, he fails the bolt test too long, IMO, but even then we don't have any land creatures for him to buff and until he becomes a 4/5 he just trades unfavorably with too many things (Finks, Reshaper, Voice, Scooze needs to eat only one creature to beat it, ect...).
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I always forget about that card....
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
http://www.wizardryfoundry.com
Current Deck:
Wall of Omens: Would this card make turn 2 a little clunky since there's typically 3 mana available? I love this card, and it seems to fit the control side of this deck's disruptive behavior (see Drowner of Hope's name in that it just makes opponent's attacks null which this card can do while we take our time to get set up). It still seems worth testing, though.
Warping Wail: I've loved this card in action. It is great. In here it can help ensure 4-5 mana on T3. It was great in Colorless Eldrazi and I always main decked 1-2. I'll begin testing this one and Wall of Omens.
I know I'm dealing in fantasy maybe it will be great land but what about the new 3 drop go grab an eldrazi card? Would a "toolbox" eldrazi sideboard be worth the effort? I'll stick to cards we have now from here on out.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Per forum rules, we cannot discuss new unreleased cards in this thread.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Drowner of Hope
2 Eldrazi Skyspawner
Spells:
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Spellskite
2 Negate
1 Dismember
1 Thragtusk
1 World Breaker
I am not sure on Elspth, Knight Errant as the double White requirement might screw me in a few games, and Eldrazi Mimic just seems awkward as the deck usually goes 1 drop -> 3/4 drop, it was better when we had 8 lands that gave 2 mana on turn 1 to go 2 drop -> 4 drop, but we usually curve differently now(playing more blue for the Stubborn Denials also helps with playing the Skyspawners). Any further thoughts?
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Negate helps against Tron and Valakut both decks we don't have the best games against and both decks will show up in a meta full of Jund and Jeskai. The aggro match-ups are harsh and you just kind of hope to avoid them, I think I might go -1 Negate for +1 Fracturing Gust as that at least hits Boggles, Affinity, and U Tron.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
I'm a big fan of timely but I struggle to justify the card in the deck. Too often against decks where I want this I'm facing down 1 or 2 guys and I've got 2 or 3 on my side and all I'm doing is gaining 6 life. I've been highly impressed with thragtusk. That guy is an absolute house and if you manage to get displacer tusk going it's a massacre. He's just so strong against so many things. Jund, UWx, tron, aggro, burn. I like him pretty much in every matchup but infect, affinity and fast combo like storm or ad nauseam. Currently have 2 tusk 1 timely in the board. I'd consider 3 tusks but it's a little too difficult to cast consistently on turn 3 and the deck is already running a very high curve.
At least with the list I was using it was 6 mana dorks + 3 skyspawners so a turn 3 thragtusk is a lot more realistic than with the lists getting posted here. Anyway even if he gets bolted you still gained the life and have a body. I think the card is relevant because for example thoughtknot easily gets bogged down behind a tasigur or goyf and it's always scary to attack into a deck running red if they have any blockers on board. Tusk can just bash in fearlessly, trade with the 5 toughness dudes, eat 2 removal spells or 2 creatures.
Planeswalkers are the biggest issue for this deck by a long way. What I love is that you can't downtick lili without a blocker when tusk is in play. Equally tapping out for nahiri you can't kill tusk without losing her in response. Karn can't eat it same with ugin. Being resistant to all the commonly played walkers is huge.
http://www.wizardryfoundry.com
Current Deck:
They are pretty bad
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack