We have a guy at my LGS who plays RG Titanshift. I got matched up against him and that match was silly, definitely worse than Affinity.
So I move toward the Taxes concept with 3 Thalia MD and 3 Arbiters in the SB.
The purpose of Thalia is obvious. We don't play many non-creature spells and when we do, +1 cost is fairly trivial. Her biggest contention for slots is with Spellskite since both serve the same primary function - slow down aggressive, spell-based decks like Infect and Burn. There are other considerations along with that of course, but in general, I figured I prefer 3x Thalia over 2x Spellskite and 1x Skyspawner. A secondary aspect of Thalia over Spellskite MD is that my opponents are less likely to bring in artifact/enchantment hate if they never see a spellskite, making my Worships that much better as well.
Arbiter was specifically a response to RG Titanshift, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. It hits Chord of Calling from the Company decks and Kiki Chord. It hits Scapeshift/Titan and all the other land searching those decks do. It hits Tron. It hits fetchlands. It hits all those other annoying spells like Gifts, Nahiri, and even nonsense like Open the Armory. It combos well with Path and Ghost Quarter. We only play 4 fetches, and again, aren't typically in a rush to throw lands down and run dudes out, especially fetching on turn 3+.
Basically, when thinking about it, I will want to bring Leonin Arbiter in any time I think slowing down my opponents ability to search the library will help me win more, which is fairly often.
I found his sideboarding decisions very interesting in particular. I occasionally would cut a Bird against some decks, but he does that and cutting Hierarchs fairly often against decks packing removal like Jund and Grixis. Against UR Delver he even ended up cutting ALL the Hierarchs and Birds. It slows down the deck, but the Bird/Hierarch often would die early anyways. Frank is undoubtably a much better player than I am, though he did seem to have no experience playing the deck before. I'll have to reconsider some of my sideboarding choices in some matchups.
Yeah you cut them... they die to early removal too easily in those matchups and are TERRIBLE top decks late. Birds is great for game 1 and in any matchup where you want to race, aside from that they lose their luster against removal heavy decks.
Just wanted to ask a quick question (ignored on Budget thread)...
Would Ancient Ziggurat be an OK replacement for Cavern of Souls in Bant Eldrazi (since we only have 8 spells?). I am working my way up to CoS (probably start with 1), and looking for filler. Ethan Miles used 2x Corrupted Crossroads in his deck, but Ziggurats could be used to pay for nobles and birds.
So, clearly Cavern is the better pick for multiple reasons. Can't counter the creature, capability to make colorless, no other drawbacks.
Given a lack of Caverns, I would first be inclined to fill out my Brushlands, Yavimaya Coasts, maybe add another fetch or two in there and the accompanying basics (up to maybe 5-6 fetches and 4 basics). I think Crossroads is a fine budget option, though it will ultimately cost you a percentage point or two. I really don't like Ziggurat as it's not uncommon to turn all our mana into Displacer activations, and Ziggurat is completely incapable of doing this.
What would people say is the best split between skyspawner and reshaper if you're only playing online? I'm currently running 3 Sky~ and 2 reshaper.
I see people saying skyspawner is bad but I've found it to be very useful against affinity and infect where reshaper wouldn't help. Likewise I've had plenty of board stalls where I can just get in the air with exalted skyspawners for 3-4 a turn. When you're purely racing some combo deck the 1/1 being able to help power out a t3 smasher is also a relevant consideration.
Not sure for online, but in paper I run a 3-3-3 split of displacer/reshaper/spawner.
I went 3-1 tonight: Won against 2 Jeskai and 1 Grixis Delver, lost to Jund(my deck flooded bad both games with only a few small creatures in between land pockets). I was trying 3 Thalia and I am completely underwhelmed, she was a horrible top deck and got killed too easily.
That was my thought as well. I was thinking of trying 3 of the wishes, moving a smasher to the board and adding in ulamog to the board as well (probably in place of worldbreaker). I'm not sure how many slots you could realistically give up to a wishboard because you can't afford to cut the sideboard cards without giving up a lot in certain matchups. Question is would it be worth running a wish package that consisted of just 2 creatures? The upside is at worst you hopefully have an exiled eldrazi that you can recover if your board is empty.
My issue is that they are a wombo combo with stirrings and against all blue decks where you blank their counters with cavern it gives an actual reasonable target.
Not sure for online, but in paper I run a 3-3-3 split of displacer/reshaper/spawner.
I went 3-1 tonight: Won against 2 Jeskai and 1 Grixis Delver, lost to Jund(my deck flooded bad both games with only a few small creatures in between land pockets). I was trying 3 Thalia and I am completely underwhelmed, she was a horrible top deck and got killed too easily.
Thalia is on the spellskite slot, which is also a bad top deck. But she has more impact on early game than spellskite and she is usefull vs more MU
I really don't see the need for Thalia in this deck, you are cutting Eldrazi power and that's not something you want to do. What about the new spoiler, Coax from the blind eternities? Way to tutor for a big Eldrazi or All is Dust from the sideboard?
Thalia help us a lot vs our bad matchup. Combo can't cantriping (ad naus, storm), scapeshift can't fetch a lot of land very fast, it also slow down infect and bogles. she also taxes opponent removal. And if she was killed, opponent lose a removal card to kill a 2/1 and not for a 4/4 or 5/5
I really don't see the need for Thalia in this deck, you are cutting Eldrazi power and that's not something you want to do. What about the new spoiler, Coax from the blind eternities? Way to tutor for a big Eldrazi or All is Dust from the sideboard?
We are not allowed to talk about unreleased cards in this thread.
Not sure for online, but in paper I run a 3-3-3 split of displacer/reshaper/spawner.
I went 3-1 tonight: Won against 2 Jeskai and 1 Grixis Delver, lost to Jund(my deck flooded bad both games with only a few small creatures in between land pockets). I was trying 3 Thalia and I am completely underwhelmed, she was a horrible top deck and got killed too easily.
Thalia is on the spellskite slot, which is also a bad top deck. But she has more impact on early game than spellskite and she is usefull vs more MU
I really don't see the need for Thalia in this deck, you are cutting Eldrazi power and that's not something you want to do. What about the new spoiler, Coax from the blind eternities? Way to tutor for a big Eldrazi or All is Dust from the sideboard?
Thalia help us a lot vs our bad matchup. Combo can't cantriping (ad naus, storm), scapeshift can't fetch a lot of land very fast, it also slow down infect and bogles. she also taxes opponent removal. And if she was killed, opponent lose a removal card to kill a 2/1 and not for a 4/4 or 5/5
I just don't see a lot of combo and the decks it "taxes" can usually afford to pay the mana, she is not a bad creature, but she just seems awkward in this deck. If you have luck with her then good for you, keep playing her.
In regards to the Thalia argument, I think that would be reasonable if we were cutting "Eldrazi power" but we're not. I directly replaced 2 Spellskites and 1 Skyspawner (easily among the worst Eldrazi in the deck). She offers a different way to slow down problematic decks, I feel like it hits a wider list.
There's a reason Eldrazi Taxes is popular right now. Thalia goes well with TKS and Reality Smasher.
I agree Thalia applies to more matchups. Spellskite and Skyspawner shore up some of the most commonly played matchups very well though - Affinity and Infect. Plus, Spellskite is fetchable by Stirrings which often is the correct colorless to grab from Stirrings vs Infect. Thalia you need to naturally draw. Thalia also dies to any removal - Bolt, Forked Bolt, Electrolyze, etc that Spellskite dodges.
I'll test with her this coming week and see how I like her. I just know my local meta tends to have a lot of Infect players. We'll see how well she does to pick up the role.
edit: lol ... so first game testing her and I totally did not realize she is legendary. I had a hand against control of Thalia x2, Eldrazi Temple, Plains, Cage, Drowner of Hope, Displacer. I was like oh sweet, T1 cage, T2 Thalia, T3 another Thalia to double the tax! Then I had to sac one due to legendary rule. RTFC -_-
Hi I'm new to these forums and started mtg with Shadows Over Innistrad and recently made Bant Eldrazi as my first modern deck. I took it to a recent gpt event in Germany and got 14th place out of 70 + players with a very slight modification to the list that made top 4 at GP Los Angeles. I was wondering how people sideboarded with this deck as I feel my sideboarding isn't very optimal. What I usually did was take out things like Ancient Stirrings, Path to Exile, and Spellskite when depending on what I felt was relevant for the appropriate sideboard cards. I also found myself removing multiple Drowner of hope vs zoo because I felt that by the time I reached 6 mana i would have lost and just shoved in multiple Engineered Explosives as early game cards.
I made a tournament report to study my gameplay if anybody is interested in reading it I'll post it.
Thanks for the assistance
TLDR: I feel my sideboarding is not optimal and would like to discuss.
Well I've only just started playing the deck in the least week but I have never sided out stirrings. Why would you want to remove it? it digs 5 cards deep for land drops, creatures and postboard your cages and EE too.
My general boarding (which can easily be wrong) is taking out a cavern against non blue decks, removing both birds against removal heavy decks, removing skyspawners against decks with electrolyze, some number of drowners against decks with few creatures or fast clocks, path against control/combo. Tbh it depends what you have to bring in in a given match.
Within the past few pages I posted my sideboarding thoughts/guide vs the most represented decks in the meta. You can also watch the Frank Lapore playlist posted a little earlier to see how he sideboards in his matches with Bant Eldrazi.
I like Finks a lot and he could be interchangeable with Timely. Against some decks I like him more, but vs most decks I like Timely more. For instance if you're playing against Zoo or 8 whack where they go wide as well as fast aggro, the immediate 6 life and 3 chump blockers can be a huge swing rather than 1 chump blocker and 2 or 4 life over a couple turns. Thragtusk I find very versatile - vs removal heavy or controlling decks you don't care as much about the life gain part as you do that he is 2 bodies in one, vs midrange he's great at swinging the race in your favor, vs aggro decks he gives life gain and 2 effective blockers (not just chumpers). Also, Displacer + Tusk is ridiculously strong in a variety of grindier matchups and a great trump in the mirror. Gain 5 life, get a 3/3 token, and get another new Thragtusk + 5 life and repeat!
Also, always keep in mind Stirrings can be useful for not just getting creatures and lands - it can get our sideboard hate like Cage and Explosives for us. I never cut Stirrings in any matchup.
hi
i won a 40+ players last week playing eldrazi. i love eldrazi and i'm playing this deck since the gold times of eye <3
i'm playing ban eldrazi right now and i can't understand why people play thalia.
i can understand spellskite, i't always good. but thalia it's a dead card against so many deck... and 4 copies aren't a good idea. it's still a legendary creatures.
also playing less then 4 brushland isn't a good idea.
it's definitely better then temple garden.
about the sideboard i think that kitchen finks are better then timely reinforcement.
they give to you 4 life, they can block two times and have good interaction with displacer!
My list are similar, assuming that I have only a cavern I play tendo ice bridge(the counter give you the mana when you need) and a waste due to I see a lot of blood moon and path and is another basic land to search.
No Elspeth or spell pierce. Elspeth seems interesting but make sense 2 spell pierce on aggro deck? Maybe a manaleak or remand should be better?
Stubborn Denial is probably the best one mana counter spell in our deck.
I see people hating on the Elspeth choice, but honestly, that's my favorite part of your list.
You can use her to help clutter up the board when you're stuck on D and she can effectively act as a 3/3 haste with a bunch of evasion for 4 when you're on offense. Not a bad 1-of in the deck. I might see where I can fit her myself.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/33140_My-SCGDFW-Decks.html Todd Stevens put out an article for SCGDFW (which I am planning to go to). I like the idea of 2 Stubborn Denial over Spellskite in the main and unfortunately I don't have any Gofys so I will play 1 Skyspawner and 1 Elspeth, Knight errant in their place. His SB I may not totally agree with, but I do like that with Stubborn Denial in the main it opens some slots in the side, I will say that 3 Cages and 2 EE looks better than a 3/3 split, in the matches where I want Cage they side in artifact removal so getting a second can be huge, but with EE I really only ever want to play one and drawing a second with one in hand, feels really bad.
Goyf still are an incredibly efficient 2-drop that grows throughout the game, even if this build doesn't really lend itself to helping it much. It relies heavily on your opponent putting some stuff in their grave. What options does this deck really have for 2 drops?
Thalia : minor nombo if you're playing Stubborn Denials in the main and so on, also is legendary and only a 2/1 that never grows.
Goyf : relies very heavily on the opponent growing him for you. Also is extremely expensive, though that should not matter for the pure spikes.
Spellskite : does nothing offensively, but avoids a lot of damage based removal, protects our other creatures, and shores up some weak Game 1s.
Scooze : can grow or hate out graveyard based synergies at least. Seems decent.
Sylvan Advocate : quickly grows to become a Goyf with vigilance after a few land drops. A budget goyf.
Wall of Omens : card-draw that can be flickered for more as well, and a solid early body to stop some aggro. Does nothing offensively again.
Leonin Arbiter : slows down a lot of other decks and gives us a better Game 1 vs Scapeshift / Valukut related decks.
Sigiled Starfish : just kidding, though a pet-card of mine in limited
Or perhaps it might be best to give up the 2 drop slot and just jump to 3 drops like Kitchen Finks in the main instead.
In my testing with Thalia so far, she has felt good playing on T2. Still need more games in with her to get a better feel of her taking the place of Spellskite. She is only good in the early game, so a terrible topdeck. When someone is at 4+ mana her ability text and her P/T doesn't matter anymore at that point. Spellskite I liked because I could still protect my other creatures at worst when I top decked him. He also blocks a lot better and dodges more removal. Still undecided...
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Modern: Bant Eldrazi EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
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We have a guy at my LGS who plays RG Titanshift. I got matched up against him and that match was silly, definitely worse than Affinity.
So I move toward the Taxes concept with 3 Thalia MD and 3 Arbiters in the SB.
The purpose of Thalia is obvious. We don't play many non-creature spells and when we do, +1 cost is fairly trivial. Her biggest contention for slots is with Spellskite since both serve the same primary function - slow down aggressive, spell-based decks like Infect and Burn. There are other considerations along with that of course, but in general, I figured I prefer 3x Thalia over 2x Spellskite and 1x Skyspawner. A secondary aspect of Thalia over Spellskite MD is that my opponents are less likely to bring in artifact/enchantment hate if they never see a spellskite, making my Worships that much better as well.
Arbiter was specifically a response to RG Titanshift, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. It hits Chord of Calling from the Company decks and Kiki Chord. It hits Scapeshift/Titan and all the other land searching those decks do. It hits Tron. It hits fetchlands. It hits all those other annoying spells like Gifts, Nahiri, and even nonsense like Open the Armory. It combos well with Path and Ghost Quarter. We only play 4 fetches, and again, aren't typically in a rush to throw lands down and run dudes out, especially fetching on turn 3+.
Basically, when thinking about it, I will want to bring Leonin Arbiter in any time I think slowing down my opponents ability to search the library will help me win more, which is fairly often.
Yeah you cut them... they die to early removal too easily in those matchups and are TERRIBLE top decks late. Birds is great for game 1 and in any matchup where you want to race, aside from that they lose their luster against removal heavy decks.
Would Ancient Ziggurat be an OK replacement for Cavern of Souls in Bant Eldrazi (since we only have 8 spells?). I am working my way up to CoS (probably start with 1), and looking for filler. Ethan Miles used 2x Corrupted Crossroads in his deck, but Ziggurats could be used to pay for nobles and birds.
I'm too noob to know, but it'd be great for tips!
Given a lack of Caverns, I would first be inclined to fill out my Brushlands, Yavimaya Coasts, maybe add another fetch or two in there and the accompanying basics (up to maybe 5-6 fetches and 4 basics). I think Crossroads is a fine budget option, though it will ultimately cost you a percentage point or two. I really don't like Ziggurat as it's not uncommon to turn all our mana into Displacer activations, and Ziggurat is completely incapable of doing this.
Looks like EMN spoilers are pointing towards more eldrazi! Hopefully we'll get some additions to our deck!
I see people saying skyspawner is bad but I've found it to be very useful against affinity and infect where reshaper wouldn't help. Likewise I've had plenty of board stalls where I can just get in the air with exalted skyspawners for 3-4 a turn. When you're purely racing some combo deck the 1/1 being able to help power out a t3 smasher is also a relevant consideration.
I went 3-1 tonight: Won against 2 Jeskai and 1 Grixis Delver, lost to Jund(my deck flooded bad both games with only a few small creatures in between land pockets). I was trying 3 Thalia and I am completely underwhelmed, she was a horrible top deck and got killed too easily.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
My issue is that they are a wombo combo with stirrings and against all blue decks where you blank their counters with cavern it gives an actual reasonable target.
Thalia is on the spellskite slot, which is also a bad top deck. But she has more impact on early game than spellskite and she is usefull vs more MU
Thalia help us a lot vs our bad matchup. Combo can't cantriping (ad naus, storm), scapeshift can't fetch a lot of land very fast, it also slow down infect and bogles. she also taxes opponent removal. And if she was killed, opponent lose a removal card to kill a 2/1 and not for a 4/4 or 5/5
We are not allowed to talk about unreleased cards in this thread.
I just don't see a lot of combo and the decks it "taxes" can usually afford to pay the mana, she is not a bad creature, but she just seems awkward in this deck. If you have luck with her then good for you, keep playing her.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
There's a reason Eldrazi Taxes is popular right now. Thalia goes well with TKS and Reality Smasher.
I'll test with her this coming week and see how I like her. I just know my local meta tends to have a lot of Infect players. We'll see how well she does to pick up the role.
edit: lol ... so first game testing her and I totally did not realize she is legendary. I had a hand against control of Thalia x2, Eldrazi Temple, Plains, Cage, Drowner of Hope, Displacer. I was like oh sweet, T1 cage, T2 Thalia, T3 another Thalia to double the tax! Then I had to sac one due to legendary rule. RTFC -_-
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Well I've only just started playing the deck in the least week but I have never sided out stirrings. Why would you want to remove it? it digs 5 cards deep for land drops, creatures and postboard your cages and EE too.
My general boarding (which can easily be wrong) is taking out a cavern against non blue decks, removing both birds against removal heavy decks, removing skyspawners against decks with electrolyze, some number of drowners against decks with few creatures or fast clocks, path against control/combo. Tbh it depends what you have to bring in in a given match.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Also, always keep in mind Stirrings can be useful for not just getting creatures and lands - it can get our sideboard hate like Cage and Explosives for us. I never cut Stirrings in any matchup.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Stubborn Denial is probably the best one mana counter spell in our deck.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
You can use her to help clutter up the board when you're stuck on D and she can effectively act as a 3/3 haste with a bunch of evasion for 4 when you're on offense. Not a bad 1-of in the deck. I might see where I can fit her myself.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Or perhaps it might be best to give up the 2 drop slot and just jump to 3 drops like Kitchen Finks in the main instead.
In my testing with Thalia so far, she has felt good playing on T2. Still need more games in with her to get a better feel of her taking the place of Spellskite. She is only good in the early game, so a terrible topdeck. When someone is at 4+ mana her ability text and her P/T doesn't matter anymore at that point. Spellskite I liked because I could still protect my other creatures at worst when I top decked him. He also blocks a lot better and dodges more removal. Still undecided...
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots