Titanshift according to my records is about 35/65 preboard and improves postboard, maybe to 50/50. The best card against them is Gideon's intervention. If that resolves and they don't pack any enchantment removal you pretty much win because their wincons are reduced to Primetime beats and Chandra ult. However, that card is super narrow. As mentinoed above, Flashfreeze and Disdainful stroke are good, more general answers. I may consider running a Gideon's intervention should valakut continue to rise in popularity.
Just want to share the MU i had and a few thoughts with you.
Abzan Company L
BG Tron W
Ramunap Company W
Grixis Shadow W
Grixis Shadow W
Mono white hatebears W
WR Prison W
Sultai Midrange W
Eldrazi Tron L
Valakut W
Kiki Chord L
Valakut W
Storm W
Eldrazi Tron W
Dredge W
The deck felt great and wouldn't change a thing maindeck. Regarding my options i prefer 4 skyspawner because it represents both an early beater (even more with hierarch) and ramp. Also it combines with displacer better then reshaper, can block flying creatures, provides two blockers in time of need and combines well with gavony township. Overall i think skyspawner is more agro then reshaper and the early damage can make a big diference imo. Everything else is pretty mainstream besides gavony which was always great and won me some games, i will continue playing it without a doubt.
Concerning the sideboard i would change Worship and Thragtusk for a surgical and a reclamation sage
Good job PokemonTrainer17707! I ran a very similar list to yours at a pptq last weekend. Why the ratchet bomb in the SB? A 3rd EE seems like a better option unless I am missing something. I also suggest cutting the Stony down to two, and maybe replacing #3 with a rec sage. Stony and EE against affinity is a nonbo, and reducing Stony down to 2 makes it much less likely you ever draw more than 1. And in matchups like tron and Etron, Stony Silence is fine but not the best card. I would probably only bring in 2 in those matchups anyway. Just a suggestion.
First of all, thank you Pokémon trainer 17707, for posting about you GP experience. The input is much appreciated. Secondly, I have some questions.
My current list is very close to your list, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the few differences in my list.
3 drowner of hope
0 birds of paradise
0 dismember
Instead I run
1 mainboard blessed alliance
1 mainboard stubborn denial
And a 3rd engineered explosives
Have you considered 4 Drowner of hope to be too many?
Have you ever considered removing the birds of paradise from your list, despite the general consensus to be that 1 bird is the correct number?
For the differences is land, looks like you prefer gavony township over ghost quarter. Thoughts on ghost quarter?
And lastly, I see you run 2 Rest In Peace and had mentioned you'd run a surgical extraction. What's your opinion on just doing 3 Rest In Peace instead?
(.....One last thing, seems like if you cut worship and thragtusk, your burn match up becomes much worse than it already is. )
Thanks for sharing your opinion with all of us Bant Eldrazi players!
Pokémon trainer17707, Thank you so much for replying. The reasoning behind gavony township vs ghost quarter definitely makes more sense to me now. At the very least, I will try it to see how it feels.
Drowner is great in the fair match ups, that are creature based, but I feel so favored in those match ups as is, that a 4th drowner seems over board. It's tempting to me to try and put a card in the main deck to help out bad matchups like combo.(that's why I was trying a main board Stubborn denial) Maybe I'll give it a try though. 12-3 at a competitive event shows some credibility to the idea.
As far as blood moon goes, It's surprising to me that more players don't run a basic island in the list. I know it's not fetchable with windswept heath and all, but it just seems that with your list, a resolved blood moon is practically an auto lose. I read earlier you have a 1 of ratchet bomb in the side for blood moon. But still, the blue eldrazi are the ones that create colorless mana. So under a blood moon, if you don't have a bird or noble out, you cant cast anything but a vanilla 3/3 displacer or an ancient stirrings which can't even find a blue source. (Assuming blood moon is resolved)
I played a game one time where blood moon was resolved and I had a basic forest, but no dork. I had to dig through my deck until I found a bird or noble.
when I finally found one, it got bolted before I could even tap it for mana. I have been running a basic island ever since.
Have you ever considered running 1 of each basic land (1 forest, 1 plains, 1 island) instead of what is currently the gold standard of 2 Forest, 1 Plains?
The topic of a basic island has been discussed before but I really don't think it's worth it. It's not worth sacrificing mainboard consistency for fear of blood moon (and having a relatively low chance of it being relevant even against blood moon). If you are really scared of blood moon, just run naturalize effects in the sb.
I also don't like blessed alliance. It is mediocre against burn and I would say actually bad against shadow since it is so reactive. It will just get inquisitioned or countered too often before it becomes relevant. At that point I would rather be playing more matter reshapers main because that card is great against burn and shadow too.
Juza ran this list in Brimingham to a 11-3-1 finish, according to his twitter. He said the stubborn denial was a blank, and that he doesn't get why people would play Eldrazi Tron instead.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UWGBant EldraziUWG Decided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.
No offense taken. To be honest, your probably right about being swayed by the one bad experience. I appreciate the feedback. I'm playing in two pttq's very soon. One this Sunday, and one the following Sunday, and I'm just trying to figure out some last minute things. So I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to comment on my questions.
Decided to sleeve up bantdrazi for fmn tonight. Went 3-0-1 splitting for first.
My side board was:
1 Batterskull
1 Worship
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Damping Matrix
1 Nature's Claim
1 Natural State
2 Stony Silence
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stubborn Denial
Round one I played against mono-white Death n' Taxes. I won the die roll, and out paced him game one. Game two i had to mull down to 5, and he out paced me. It was close, and had i been on the play couldve won. Game three was super tight and intense. The game ended with me double pathing his creatures and top decking a noble and swinging two with my scion.
1-0
Round two, I played against abzan midrange. This match-up I don't remember that well, I know he won the die roll and got game one, strickly because I was greedy with EE and didn't cast it on zero fast enough. Game two I out paced him with 2 drowner. Game three was super tight. I top decked EE blew it on zero and played a skyspawner to tap down his blocker. Even if i hadn't had the skyspawner Gav was just lethal with Smasher in play.
2-0
Round Three, I play jund. Was a super blow out both games, had triple path both games. Also had EE on two both games and just out paced him, couple of good plays on my half game one, letting me rid a lilly with smasher and taking the game, but pretty much a blow out.
Split the last round with the other undefeated, He's my roommate. He was on g/w ranumap not sure about that matchup or if bant drazi is favored.
3-0-1
The third Stub d was suppose to be blessed alliance but did't have one available, batterskull and dampening matrix were suppose to be cages. and the natures claim was suppose to be a natural state, but the board seemed fine, i brought batterskull in a lot over a 4th drowner just because it seems like a fine top deck. I was playing the same list that took 29th recently but change birds of paradise for E-Wit. E-wit seemed fine, but bird might have been better, not sure. the dismember felt bad. but good when it was good, so not sure.
Placed 4th in a small 20 person tournament this week. Gotta keep emphasizing how good Gavony is. I played UW control 2 times and went 2-0 in both rounds, with 1 game in each round being easy wins because I got Gavony on the board and they didn't have GQ or SS in time.
Still playing around with Rec sage vs Natural state. My only loss that night was a loss to a blood moon deck and not being able to kill the blood moon at instant speed lost me one game. Rec sage was stellar in the UW matchup, though. It's a solid 2-for-1. Maybe 1 Rec sage 1 Natural state? Not sure. I just don't like how narrow Natural state is.
Thinking about running Bant Eldrazi for my local pptq this week - just wondering, for the most recent decklist posted, how would it do against Storm? From the list i'd suppose the best way is to get a Smasher or multiple big creatures around + worship after boarding?
Fast combo is going to be tough for a deck like Bant Eldrazi - it's on the list of bad matchups together with decks like Valakut and Ad Nauseum (thankfully Ad Nauseum is out of the picture atm). Your GY hate cards will be your best strategy, along with counterspells and TKS disruption. Worship isnt bad either but they will bounce it - be prepared for that. Board in any and all 'sweepers' - such as EE or ratchet bomb if you play that to deal with goblin tokens. Also be weary of Blood Moon - there are many ways to lose to Storm - its just really rough for bant eldrazi..
Ever since the Gitaxian probe ban (and subsequently Infect falling out of Tier), I need a new home for my Noble's. I was going to do Traditional Abzan midrange, however the price of that deck is just truly astronomical, and after testing it for weeks with proxies, it's simply too difficult to learn / play and I don't have the time to invest.
Bant Eldrazi always looked cool / fun. My only concern is: Why does everyone play Colorless Eldrazi over Bant Eldrazi? Is the colorless version really that much better?
Anyway after doing some research, I've made a list - please tell me what you think!
Placed 4th in a small 20 person tournament this week. Gotta keep emphasizing how good Gavony is. I played UW control 2 times and went 2-0 in both rounds, with 1 game in each round being easy wins because I got Gavony on the board and they didn't have GQ or SS in time.
Still playing around with Rec sage vs Natural state. My only loss that night was a loss to a blood moon deck and not being able to kill the blood moon at instant speed lost me one game. Rec sage was stellar in the UW matchup, though. It's a solid 2-for-1. Maybe 1 Rec sage 1 Natural state? Not sure. I just don't like how narrow Natural state is.
I run 1 Natural State and 1 Rec Sage in my board last week. Both have their upsides, and those upsides are situational. Rec Sage comes with a body that can be displaced, which is usally GG against decks like affinity or Lantern. Natural state is instant speed, and can be gotten back efficiently with Ewitness. But the 3cmc restriction can be a problem. Sometimes you just need to kill a worship or a Leyline. A 1-1 split has been working well for me.
Fast combo is going to be tough for a deck like Bant Eldrazi - it's on the list of bad matchups together with decks like Valakut and Ad Nauseum (thankfully Ad Nauseum is out of the picture atm). Your GY hate cards will be your best strategy, along with counterspells and TKS disruption. Worship isnt bad either but they will bounce it - be prepared for that. Board in any and all 'sweepers' - such as EE or ratchet bomb if you play that to deal with goblin tokens. Also be weary of Blood Moon - there are many ways to lose to Storm - its just really rough for bant eldrazi..
Thanks for the pointers. Makes a whole lot of sense to leave the EEs in, since both Baral and Electomancer are 2cmc. And yeah, tokens are 0 so easy wipe.
Also as you've pointed out, my greatest fear running Eldrazi, be it Bant, Boros or Tron, is really Blood Moon - Boros may get away a little easier, but it really is game over if you don't have colorless...
For general anti-combo, however, I am thinking about running something unexpected - Thorn of Amethyst is what I have in mind - Thalia, Guardian of Thraben may have a booty...i mean, body to come along, but she's easily removed compared to Thorn. Aside from Storm, it delays the ramps for Titanshift as well, together with making removal in other decks more costly. I get that it doesn't impose a cost on storm copies though. Sure it adds on to our own noncreature costs as well, but I think it's more of a 'hurts them more than it hurts us' situation, given that we don't run that many noncreatures. Diggable via Stirrings too.
Truth be told I run natural state out of fear of blood moon for the most part - and maybe that's an error on my behalf. Chalice is def great against combo - its just hard for me to justify the slots - I wish Infect was a tier 1 deck and then I would play them for sure..
Ever since the Gitaxian probe ban (and subsequently Infect falling out of Tier), I need a new home for my Noble's. I was going to do Traditional Abzan midrange, however the price of that deck is just truly astronomical, and after testing it for weeks with proxies, it's simply too difficult to learn / play and I don't have the time to invest.
Bant Eldrazi always looked cool / fun. My only concern is: Why does everyone play Colorless Eldrazi over Bant Eldrazi? Is the colorless version really that much better?
Anyway after doing some research, I've made a list - please tell me what you think!
You will have trouble against burn - no reshapers and nothing in the baord that will help sans 1x Worship
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm unsure of some sideboard slots like Surgical Extraction and Warping Wail. Even Worship seems kinda off, but I dont have any experience with the deck so take that for what it's worth.
I don't like the idea of Reshaper over Displacer or Skyspawner as my 3 drops, though I do see why it's better against Burn specifically.
Any recommendations for the sideboard against Burn? Blessed Alliance seems really meh (I play Burn and don't worry about that card). More counter spells maybe? Feed the clan?
Good job PokemonTrainer17707! I ran a very similar list to yours at a pptq last weekend. Why the ratchet bomb in the SB? A 3rd EE seems like a better option unless I am missing something. I also suggest cutting the Stony down to two, and maybe replacing #3 with a rec sage. Stony and EE against affinity is a nonbo, and reducing Stony down to 2 makes it much less likely you ever draw more than 1. And in matchups like tron and Etron, Stony Silence is fine but not the best card. I would probably only bring in 2 in those matchups anyway. Just a suggestion.
My current list is very close to your list, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the few differences in my list.
3 drowner of hope
0 birds of paradise
0 dismember
Instead I run
1 mainboard blessed alliance
1 mainboard stubborn denial
And a 3rd engineered explosives
Have you considered 4 Drowner of hope to be too many?
Have you ever considered removing the birds of paradise from your list, despite the general consensus to be that 1 bird is the correct number?
For the differences is land, looks like you prefer gavony township over ghost quarter. Thoughts on ghost quarter?
And lastly, I see you run 2 Rest In Peace and had mentioned you'd run a surgical extraction. What's your opinion on just doing 3 Rest In Peace instead?
(.....One last thing, seems like if you cut worship and thragtusk, your burn match up becomes much worse than it already is. )
Thanks for sharing your opinion with all of us Bant Eldrazi players!
Drowner is great in the fair match ups, that are creature based, but I feel so favored in those match ups as is, that a 4th drowner seems over board. It's tempting to me to try and put a card in the main deck to help out bad matchups like combo.(that's why I was trying a main board Stubborn denial) Maybe I'll give it a try though. 12-3 at a competitive event shows some credibility to the idea.
As far as blood moon goes, It's surprising to me that more players don't run a basic island in the list. I know it's not fetchable with windswept heath and all, but it just seems that with your list, a resolved blood moon is practically an auto lose. I read earlier you have a 1 of ratchet bomb in the side for blood moon. But still, the blue eldrazi are the ones that create colorless mana. So under a blood moon, if you don't have a bird or noble out, you cant cast anything but a vanilla 3/3 displacer or an ancient stirrings which can't even find a blue source. (Assuming blood moon is resolved)
I played a game one time where blood moon was resolved and I had a basic forest, but no dork. I had to dig through my deck until I found a bird or noble.
when I finally found one, it got bolted before I could even tap it for mana. I have been running a basic island ever since.
Have you ever considered running 1 of each basic land (1 forest, 1 plains, 1 island) instead of what is currently the gold standard of 2 Forest, 1 Plains?
I also don't like blessed alliance. It is mediocre against burn and I would say actually bad against shadow since it is so reactive. It will just get inquisitioned or countered too often before it becomes relevant. At that point I would rather be playing more matter reshapers main because that card is great against burn and shadow too.
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
My side board was:
1 Batterskull
1 Worship
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Damping Matrix
1 Nature's Claim
1 Natural State
2 Stony Silence
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stubborn Denial
Round one I played against mono-white Death n' Taxes. I won the die roll, and out paced him game one. Game two i had to mull down to 5, and he out paced me. It was close, and had i been on the play couldve won. Game three was super tight and intense. The game ended with me double pathing his creatures and top decking a noble and swinging two with my scion.
1-0
Round two, I played against abzan midrange. This match-up I don't remember that well, I know he won the die roll and got game one, strickly because I was greedy with EE and didn't cast it on zero fast enough. Game two I out paced him with 2 drowner. Game three was super tight. I top decked EE blew it on zero and played a skyspawner to tap down his blocker. Even if i hadn't had the skyspawner Gav was just lethal with Smasher in play.
2-0
Round Three, I play jund. Was a super blow out both games, had triple path both games. Also had EE on two both games and just out paced him, couple of good plays on my half game one, letting me rid a lilly with smasher and taking the game, but pretty much a blow out.
Split the last round with the other undefeated, He's my roommate. He was on g/w ranumap not sure about that matchup or if bant drazi is favored.
3-0-1
The third Stub d was suppose to be blessed alliance but did't have one available, batterskull and dampening matrix were suppose to be cages. and the natures claim was suppose to be a natural state, but the board seemed fine, i brought batterskull in a lot over a 4th drowner just because it seems like a fine top deck. I was playing the same list that took 29th recently but change birds of paradise for E-Wit. E-wit seemed fine, but bird might have been better, not sure. the dismember felt bad. but good when it was good, so not sure.
Bant Eldrazi(Record; 5-1
Ad Nauseam ( Record; 5-3
Bant Eldrazi(Record; 5-1
Ad Nauseam ( Record; 5-3
Still playing around with Rec sage vs Natural state. My only loss that night was a loss to a blood moon deck and not being able to kill the blood moon at instant speed lost me one game. Rec sage was stellar in the UW matchup, though. It's a solid 2-for-1. Maybe 1 Rec sage 1 Natural state? Not sure. I just don't like how narrow Natural state is.
Thinking about running Bant Eldrazi for my local pptq this week - just wondering, for the most recent decklist posted, how would it do against Storm? From the list i'd suppose the best way is to get a Smasher or multiple big creatures around + worship after boarding?
Iwamori says "Just Bring It!"
Edric's Spiesssssssss (Snake Tribal) GU
Sliver Overlord (Slivers Galore!!) WUBRG
Ruhan of the Fomori RWU
Seton, Krosan ProtectorG
Intet, The Dreamer (Hive Mind + Scrambleverse anyone?) URG
Karona, False God the Goddess of Tribal - Samurai, P3K Horsemen, 5c MyrsWUBRG
Garza's Family UBR
Sygg, River Guide and his merry merrowmen UB
Sharuum, the Hedgemon Sphinx Tribal
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Ever since the Gitaxian probe ban (and subsequently Infect falling out of Tier), I need a new home for my Noble's. I was going to do Traditional Abzan midrange, however the price of that deck is just truly astronomical, and after testing it for weeks with proxies, it's simply too difficult to learn / play and I don't have the time to invest.
Bant Eldrazi always looked cool / fun. My only concern is: Why does everyone play Colorless Eldrazi over Bant Eldrazi? Is the colorless version really that much better?
Anyway after doing some research, I've made a list - please tell me what you think!
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Drowner of Hope
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Skyspawner
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
Instant (5)
1x Dismember
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery (4)
4x Ancient Stirrings
Artifact (2)
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Breeding Pool
3x Brushland
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Plains
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Yavimaya Coast
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Warping Wail
1x Worship
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I run 1 Natural State and 1 Rec Sage in my board last week. Both have their upsides, and those upsides are situational. Rec Sage comes with a body that can be displaced, which is usally GG against decks like affinity or Lantern. Natural state is instant speed, and can be gotten back efficiently with Ewitness. But the 3cmc restriction can be a problem. Sometimes you just need to kill a worship or a Leyline. A 1-1 split has been working well for me.
Thanks for the pointers. Makes a whole lot of sense to leave the EEs in, since both Baral and Electomancer are 2cmc. And yeah, tokens are 0 so easy wipe.
Also as you've pointed out, my greatest fear running Eldrazi, be it Bant, Boros or Tron, is really Blood Moon - Boros may get away a little easier, but it really is game over if you don't have colorless...
For general anti-combo, however, I am thinking about running something unexpected - Thorn of Amethyst is what I have in mind - Thalia, Guardian of Thraben may have a booty...i mean, body to come along, but she's easily removed compared to Thorn. Aside from Storm, it delays the ramps for Titanshift as well, together with making removal in other decks more costly. I get that it doesn't impose a cost on storm copies though. Sure it adds on to our own noncreature costs as well, but I think it's more of a 'hurts them more than it hurts us' situation, given that we don't run that many noncreatures. Diggable via Stirrings too.
What do you guys think?
Iwamori says "Just Bring It!"
Edric's Spiesssssssss (Snake Tribal) GU
Sliver Overlord (Slivers Galore!!) WUBRG
Ruhan of the Fomori RWU
Seton, Krosan ProtectorG
Intet, The Dreamer (Hive Mind + Scrambleverse anyone?) URG
Karona, False God the Goddess of Tribal - Samurai, P3K Horsemen, 5c MyrsWUBRG
Garza's Family UBR
Sygg, River Guide and his merry merrowmen UB
Sharuum, the Hedgemon Sphinx Tribal
What are some other uses for natural state?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Can anyone comment / assist on my list?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm unsure of some sideboard slots like Surgical Extraction and Warping Wail. Even Worship seems kinda off, but I dont have any experience with the deck so take that for what it's worth.
I don't like the idea of Reshaper over Displacer or Skyspawner as my 3 drops, though I do see why it's better against Burn specifically.
Any recommendations for the sideboard against Burn? Blessed Alliance seems really meh (I play Burn and don't worry about that card). More counter spells maybe? Feed the clan?
Any other sideboard / mainboard thoughts?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company