Guys hello, thinking of buying into that deck. What's the best mana base?
There are some lists :
24 lands 4 dorks
23 lands 5 dorks (4 noble + 1 birds)
22 lands 4 dorks 2 rocks (talisman of progress)
Core is :
4 eldrazi temple
4 fetch wg
3-4 cavern
0-1 gq / you can play an utility land in this slot
2 forest
1 plains
2-3 shocklands
3 brushlands
2-3 yavimaya coast
+ 4 noble hierarch
please stop saying dredge is dead
there are 5 dredge players in my LGS so i play with 5 graveyard hate
all those players just switch the Golgari Grave-Troll for Golgari Thug we tested today and the results are the same so maybe against some decks yes dredge is weakened but not tier 2 and not dead
infect, u/r agro / titi agro are weakened too but... we are very immune to those decks, i always go 2-0 and never sideboard anything (displacer, spellskite, EE and drowner deals with all)
That being said it is ALOT less resilient against removal like anger now so will drop in popularity, so whilst GY hate is still a requirement in the sb, we won't need to pack as much as we did, or we can pack different types.
Thankfully we are still very well placed in the developing meta so we don't need to shift too much.
Lately I've been having some issues against Mono-Green Tron. Does anyone have advice for the matchup?
I've been siding in 2c Stony Silence and 3x Stubborn Denial. But I think I'm doing something wrong in execution.
What do you all prioritize with your TKS? Best way to deal with Wurmcoil?
Also, Stony is a nobo with Talisman, and that's been relevant at times. I can't decide if I will keep that configuration or go back to 5 dorks + 23 lands. I guess we will see if Tron continues to rise in light of the bans and Aether Revolt. Unfortunately I think our deck will rise too, which means Blood Moon will remain prevalent.
Lately I've been having some issues against Mono-Green Tron. Does anyone have advice for the matchup?
I've been siding in 2c Stony Silence and 3x Stubborn Denial. But I think I'm doing something wrong in execution.
What do you all prioritize with your TKS? Best way to deal with Wurmcoil?
Also, Stony is a nobo with Talisman, and that's been relevant at times. I can't decide if I will keep that configuration or go back to 5 dorks + 23 lands. I guess we will see if Tron continues to rise in light of the bans and Aether Revolt. Unfortunately I think our deck will rise too, which means Blood Moon will remain prevalent.
And talisman shines vs blood moon decks
i don't play stony silence anymore with 3 explosives/2 talisman MB. vs tron i side in only counters (2 denial, 1 negate, 1 stroke).
Path deal easily with wurmcoil, just counter or TKS karn and o'stone
It sure does shine against blood moon decks - but its pretty bad vs everything else - not sure why ppl are such fans of EE'ing there own ramp - worse then someone bolting your dork..
It sure does shine against blood moon decks - but its pretty bad vs everything else - not sure why ppl are such fans of EE'ing there own ramp - worse then someone bolting your dork..
Yes exactly. Lately I've really hated drawing Talisman or seeing it in my opening hand. It feels too narrow and just antithetical to what we're trying to. And as you mention, it's a nonbo with several of our cards.
I'm probably going to drop it soon, but keep the increased skyspawner count.
Talisman got popular because ben friedman played it in a meta full of rw prison and skred. Now people realize those decks suck so they stopped playing them.
As such, we should stop playing talisman. If you're really worried about blood moon, side in a wastes or enchantment destruction. If you really want to play talisman, play unity instead of progress. Unity is far better against regular decks because the green can be used immediately.
22lands is also not correct based on the math of the deck. We're the only midrange deck to play 6 drops yet we want to run 2 fewer lands than jund?
The real innovation of ben friedman is 4 skyspawner. I've found it to be better than reshaper fairly often.
I've been playing zero matter reshaper since about september 2016 - Skyspawner is just better - it ramps you to Smasher and Drowner and helps against all the tough matchups by providing a flying blocker ie. Affinity, Infect and other aggro where having two chump blockers helps you not die. Reshaper is good in match-ups that Eldrazi is already favoured in - so why play reshaper? It just so happens it's also useful against Moon - but that is the last reason I would play it..
How many Spellskites (if any) are people running these days? I've seen some lists with zero, and I'm curious whether that is out the the mainstream or whether it's something to consider.
How many Spellskites (if any) are people running these days? I've seen some lists with zero, and I'm curious whether that is out the the mainstream or whether it's something to consider.
Talisman got popular because ben friedman played it in a meta full of rw prison and skred. Now people realize those decks suck so they stopped playing them.
As such, we should stop playing talisman. If you're really worried about blood moon, side in a wastes or enchantment destruction. If you really want to play talisman, play unity instead of progress. Unity is far better against regular decks because the green can be used immediately.
22lands is also not correct based on the math of the deck. We're the only midrange deck to play 6 drops yet we want to run 2 fewer lands than jund?
The real innovation of ben friedman is 4 skyspawner. I've found it to be better than reshaper fairly often.
Talisman of unity let you cast all of yours eldrazi and it's bolt-proof/push-proof. Tron and valakut are favoured with new banning and will be more played = more land hate in sb.
I think Talisman is great. Allows for 22 lands to be played can be played turn 2 keep up path then helps you to cast Turn 3 Seer and Turn 4 Smasher. protection from early removal while playing Bird and blood moon is just extra.
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Modern UBRWGHumansUBRWG UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron Legacy WDeath & TaxesW Pauper RGoblinsR EDH UGMerfolk ComboGU Standard UWApproachWU
I think Talisman is great. Allows for 22 lands to be played can be played turn 2 keep up path then helps you to cast Turn 3 Seer and Turn 4 Smasher. protection from early removal while playing Bird and blood moon is just extra.
totally agreed, with 4 noble + 2 talisman you always have TKS on turn 3 and you're basically immune to blood moon cause they can't deal with it (not like a bird that take bolt). It's also fetchable on stirring that bird doesn't
I'm playing a Team Unified tournament next saturday. I'm captain and i project the other Player's "B" to play a mix of: Nauseam,Valakut,Abzan Coco,BGx,Burn, Affinity.
I'm playing a stock list of 5 dorks and 23 lands. The big change i made is taking out Spellskite completely from the MB and putting 1 Eldrazi Mimic to put some pressure on combo.
How were the results of playing Gemstone Caverns?. I think in a meta like that you have to be as agressive as possible, barring the Burn and Affinity matchups were you really can´t aggro them out. I realized our worst matchups are handled by TKS+Smasher as quick as possible. I'm also playing 3 Skyspawners and 2 Reshapers because Skyspawner is VERY good.
I've been testing out 1 Lightning greaves in the MB in the place of a spellskite. It obviously doesn't protect against removal as well as greaves, as you can always remove in response to an equip. However, hands with it tend to be about half a turn faster on the goldfish kill. Turn 4 kill is also much more likely. Plus you can sandbag it in your hand, and itll still have value on the turn you play it (e.g. a hasted skyspawner or reshaper on turn 4). A successful equip will also be great against any fair deck, as it almost forces them to have a cryptic, decay, or kolaghan's to answer it effectively.
I agree we need help with combo. Even with 4 SB cards, my most recent match record against valakut is 1-4. I'm wondering if some other sort of mainboard disruption is worth considering... I really wish our mana base could afford casting Clique.
I tested Gemstone briefly and while it does enable some crazy hands, I don't think it's worth the very real deckbuilding cost of a colorless source.
I've been testing out 1 Lightning greaves in the MB in the place of a spellskite. It obviously doesn't protect against removal as well as greaves, as you can always remove in response to an equip. However, hands with it tend to be about half a turn faster on the goldfish kill. Turn 4 kill is also much more likely. Plus you can sandbag it in your hand, and itll still have value on the turn you play it (e.g. a hasted skyspawner or reshaper on turn 4). A successful equip will also be great against any fair deck, as it almost forces them to have a cryptic, decay, or kolaghan's to answer it effectively.
I agree we need help with combo. Even with 4 SB cards, my most recent match record against valakut is 1-4. I'm wondering if some other sort of mainboard disruption is worth considering... I really wish our mana base could afford casting Clique.
I tested Gemstone briefly and while it does enable some crazy hands, I don't think it's worth the very real deckbuilding cost of a colorless source.
I've been using Repel the abominable in my BW Humans against Valakut. Might sound janky but it always surprises them. We can put it in the sb, not many tier 1 decks with humans anyway.
The card would be gd against affinity, dredge, merfolk n etc. Then hopefully we can get them on the backswing
Quick question for the community. What does everyone think of Duskwatch Recruiter and Endbringer? I've been testing 2 and 1 respectively and they are pretty good in some of the grindier matchups. I also wanted to know why don't more people use a one of Moorland Haunt or Gavony Township or Sea Gate Wreckage? I mostly see ghost quarter lately.
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There are some lists :
24 lands 4 dorks
23 lands 5 dorks (4 noble + 1 birds)
22 lands 4 dorks 2 rocks (talisman of progress)
Core is :
4 eldrazi temple
4 fetch wg
3-4 cavern
0-1 gq / you can play an utility land in this slot
2 forest
1 plains
2-3 shocklands
3 brushlands
2-3 yavimaya coast
+ 4 noble hierarch
there are 5 dredge players in my LGS so i play with 5 graveyard hate
all those players just switch the Golgari Grave-Troll for Golgari Thug we tested today and the results are the same so maybe against some decks yes dredge is weakened but not tier 2 and not dead
infect, u/r agro / titi agro are weakened too but... we are very immune to those decks, i always go 2-0 and never sideboard anything (displacer, spellskite, EE and drowner deals with all)
That being said it is ALOT less resilient against removal like anger now so will drop in popularity, so whilst GY hate is still a requirement in the sb, we won't need to pack as much as we did, or we can pack different types.
Thankfully we are still very well placed in the developing meta so we don't need to shift too much.
I've been siding in 2c Stony Silence and 3x Stubborn Denial. But I think I'm doing something wrong in execution.
What do you all prioritize with your TKS? Best way to deal with Wurmcoil?
Also, Stony is a nobo with Talisman, and that's been relevant at times. I can't decide if I will keep that configuration or go back to 5 dorks + 23 lands. I guess we will see if Tron continues to rise in light of the bans and Aether Revolt. Unfortunately I think our deck will rise too, which means Blood Moon will remain prevalent.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
And talisman shines vs blood moon decks
i don't play stony silence anymore with 3 explosives/2 talisman MB. vs tron i side in only counters (2 denial, 1 negate, 1 stroke).
Path deal easily with wurmcoil, just counter or TKS karn and o'stone
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Yes exactly. Lately I've really hated drawing Talisman or seeing it in my opening hand. It feels too narrow and just antithetical to what we're trying to. And as you mention, it's a nonbo with several of our cards.
I'm probably going to drop it soon, but keep the increased skyspawner count.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
As such, we should stop playing talisman. If you're really worried about blood moon, side in a wastes or enchantment destruction. If you really want to play talisman, play unity instead of progress. Unity is far better against regular decks because the green can be used immediately.
22lands is also not correct based on the math of the deck. We're the only midrange deck to play 6 drops yet we want to run 2 fewer lands than jund?
The real innovation of ben friedman is 4 skyspawner. I've found it to be better than reshaper fairly often.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
1x mb and 1x sb for me.
Talisman of unity let you cast all of yours eldrazi and it's bolt-proof/push-proof. Tron and valakut are favoured with new banning and will be more played = more land hate in sb.
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
totally agreed, with 4 noble + 2 talisman you always have TKS on turn 3 and you're basically immune to blood moon cause they can't deal with it (not like a bird that take bolt). It's also fetchable on stirring that bird doesn't
Seems we could have Ghost Quarters in the SB
I'm playing a stock list of 5 dorks and 23 lands. The big change i made is taking out Spellskite completely from the MB and putting 1 Eldrazi Mimic to put some pressure on combo.
How were the results of playing Gemstone Caverns?. I think in a meta like that you have to be as agressive as possible, barring the Burn and Affinity matchups were you really can´t aggro them out. I realized our worst matchups are handled by TKS+Smasher as quick as possible. I'm also playing 3 Skyspawners and 2 Reshapers because Skyspawner is VERY good.
What ideas do you come up with to play faster?
I agree we need help with combo. Even with 4 SB cards, my most recent match record against valakut is 1-4. I'm wondering if some other sort of mainboard disruption is worth considering... I really wish our mana base could afford casting Clique.
I tested Gemstone briefly and while it does enable some crazy hands, I don't think it's worth the very real deckbuilding cost of a colorless source.
I've been using Repel the abominable in my BW Humans against Valakut. Might sound janky but it always surprises them. We can put it in the sb, not many tier 1 decks with humans anyway.
The card would be gd against affinity, dredge, merfolk n etc. Then hopefully we can get them on the backswing