Hey guys I have been on Eldrazi and taxes for quite sometime now but it consistently falls short. I have been looking to make the switch to Bant Eldrazi but due to budget concerns I would be playing it without Noble Heiarch and Cavern of Souls. Do you feel like their is a substantial hit in power if I were to play Birds of Paradise and say more shocks in place of those 2?
caverns fix some color problems with your opening hand and off course good against control but use a ghost quarter, gavony township, sea gate wreckage and a waste
and yes you can use 4 birds and 2 talisman of progress (or unity if you dont have it)
if you play with talismans you aim for a longer game
and the exalted buff its good... yes but if you play against nahiri gideon and blessed alliance you try to attack with more than one creature even attack with the spellskite
Hey guys I have been on Eldrazi and taxes for quite sometime now but it consistently falls short. I have been looking to make the switch to Bant Eldrazi but due to budget concerns I would be playing it without Noble Heiarch and Cavern of Souls. Do you feel like their is a substantial hit in power if I were to play Birds of Paradise and say more shocks in place of those 2?
Thank you all!
The issue with shocklands is that they don't give you access to colorless mana. That's usually not a major issue with our painlands. Still though, it's something to consider.
Birds is strictly worse than noble, but birds will get you some of the way there.
In short, there's definitely a hit, but depending on the level of competition that you're playing in the deck should still be fine.
Hey guys I have been on Eldrazi and taxes for quite sometime now but it consistently falls short. I have been looking to make the switch to Bant Eldrazi but due to budget concerns I would be playing it without Noble Heiarch and Cavern of Souls. Do you feel like their is a substantial hit in power if I were to play Birds of Paradise and say more shocks in place of those 2?
Thank you all!
The issue with shocklands is that they don't give you access to colorless mana. That's usually not a major issue with our painlands. Still though, it's something to consider.
Birds is strictly worse than noble, but birds will get you some of the way there.
In short, there's definitely a hit, but depending on the level of competition that you're playing in the deck should still be fine.
caverns fix some color problems with your opening hand and off course good against control but use a ghost quarter, gavony township, sea gate wreckage and a waste
and yes you can use 4 birds and 2 talisman of progress (or unity if you dont have it)
if you play with talismans you aim for a longer game
and the exalted buff its good... yes but if you play against nahiri gideon and blessed alliance you try to attack with more than one creature even attack with the spellskite
Thank you all for the info! Looks like I will be picking up the small bits I am still missing.
I've been further testing Ratchet bomb in the SB, IN ADDITION to EE. I think it has a place in the SB as EE #3, 4, or even 5, depending on meta.
There are many situations where I've found Ratchet bomb to be better than EE:
- Don't have to hold up mana to crack it. Put it on the relevant number and leave it there without any real cost to you while disincentivizing your opponent from developing their board.
- Can be cast through blood moon.
- Is more flexible than EE when you don't know what number you want.
It's possibly better than EE in the following matchups:
- Merfolk
- Elves
- Affinity
- Blood moon decks
- Abzan coco
Notice that these are decks that we are weak against!
It's basically the same as EE against:
- Decks reliant on enchantments or artifacts
- Token decks
It's also worth considering against Infect and UR Prowess, where it's worse than EE but still possibly worth siding in than some of your creatures because it can lock out the game once you've stabilized.
I also am testing Wastes in the SB. It's obviously the best out against any blood moon decks, but it also has several other purposes as a 24th land. It gives you another basic against GQ/path effects. It's a replacement for Hallowed fountain or Breeding pool against merfolk. It's also worth putting in when you cut dorks in attrition matchups where you side out dorks.
Hello Eldrazi Menace, I'm a Burn player looking for advice on what cards are effective against you. I currently have been siding in Path to Exile but I still feel like one TKS wrecks me. is Ensnaring Bridge a good SB card? Right now my current plan is Path and Deflecting Palm. I'm also considering Blood Moon.
Hello Eldrazi Menace, I'm a Burn player looking for advice on what cards are effective against you. I currently have been siding in Path to Exile but I still feel like one TKS wrecks me. is Ensnaring Bridge a good SB card? Right now my current plan is Path and Deflecting Palm. I'm also considering Blood Moon.
Path isn't terrible for us because it helps us ramp into our bigger creatures and we have Ancient Stirrings to help replenish threats. Though on the flip side it does devalue our Matter Reshapers and can deal with any of our creatures regardless of size.
Worse than Path is Blood Moon. While we've been adjusting the deck to deal with Blood Moon (e.g., adding Talisman, more Skyspawner, a Waste even), it's still my least favorite card to see at this point. I'd side it in if you're having issues with Bant Eldrazi.
Edit: See below for Ensnaring Bridge (that's what I get for posting on no sleep).
Bridge is so much worse. It doesn't count the cards in your hand, just the op hand. You basically cannot close the game until you land EE for 3. It could be too late by then.
Bridge is so much worse. It doesn't count the cards in your hand, just the op hand. You basically cannot close the game until you land EE for 3. It could be too late by then.
This is true, but I'd still say Blood Moon is worse. EE isn't insanely hard to get off stirrings or just drawing it. At least with Bridge we can still cast our guys; tap down theirs with Displacer (with benefit of Temple), Drowner; blink a skyspwaner and get in with an increasing army of tokens, etc. And EE is sometimes easier to cast on 3 when there's no Blood Moon (though we do benefit from the Mountain when trying to cast EE on 3).
I guess my question would be, how many cards does the Burn player usually have in hand?
I can see merits to both. But a key difference is that Blood Moon hurts us when it comes down early; a Bridge hurts us more when it comes down late (since their hand will be almost depleted). This matchup tends not to go too many turns, so a Blood Moon seems more relevant to me.
I would most likely be around 3 cards in hand the turn I drop it, then probably down to 1 the following turn.
Worship would be difficult to deal with if you manage to get it down but i wonder if you have enough time vs other strategies you could side in like blessed alliance even.
Bridge is so much worse. It doesn't count the cards in your hand, just the op hand. You basically cannot close the game until you land EE for 3. It could be too late by then.
This is true, but I'd still say Blood Moon is worse. EE isn't insanely hard to get off stirrings or just drawing it. At least with Bridge we can still cast our guys; tap down theirs with Displacer (with benefit of Temple), Drowner; blink a skyspwaner and get in with an increasing army of tokens, etc. And EE is sometimes easier to cast on 3 when there's no Blood Moon (though we do benefit from the Mountain when trying to cast EE on 3).
I guess my question would be, how many cards does the Burn player usually have in hand?
I can see merits to both. But a key difference is that Blood Moon hurts us when it comes down early; a Bridge hurts us more when it comes down late (since their hand will be almost depleted). This matchup tends not to go too many turns, so a Blood Moon seems more relevant to me.
Not only keep tapping their creatures, we can deck them out with a TKS. Depending on the mana available, you can do 1-3 cards a turn.
Then if they're stuck with lands in their hands, you can just attack w scions or skyspawners/hierarchs
I Have a Modern GP coming up i was thinking of going for this build
iv been testing chalice alot and its been doing very well for me, being able to bring it in many of the match ups, although sometimes it does nothing.
I am also not to sure about natural state maybe have something against tron instead, if there is something besides stony silence.
spellskite main played great since most of the decks you want it against dont have artifact hate main and searchable through stirrings.
Talisman also allows you to still play turn 3 seer and turn 4 smasher when you dont have the crazy hands
Chalice has been discussed before, and it's perfectly valid. It's great against burn and infect, not game winning but still really good. Hierarch goes through chalice. It's randomly useful in so many scenarios, not just burn and infect, like 0 on the play against affinity, 0 against Titanbreach, 1 against combo decks, 1 against lantern control, on 1 (or any number) against traditional control when your paths are sided out.
The only thing is I wouldn't have 3 stubborns in addition to the chalices. I would cut down to 1 or 2. Natural state is also bad when you already have Talismans for blood moon resiliency. I also don't understand your graveyard hate.
As a side note, you're actually kinda weak to stony silence, which is also the reason you're not including it in your SB (you should).
Does Fatal Push affect our Matter Reshaper / Eldrazi Skyspawner decision? I had been leaning toward Skyspwaner, given the Blood Moon issues of late. But I'm thinking a tilt back toward Matter Reshaper might be in order. I'll probably test a 3:2 Reshaper:Skyspawner ratio.
Chalice has been discussed before, and it's perfectly valid. It's great against burn and infect, not game winning but still really good. Hierarch goes through chalice. It's randomly useful in so many scenarios, not just burn and infect, like 0 on the play against affinity, 0 against Titanbreach, 1 against combo decks, 1 against lantern control, on 1 (or any number) against traditional control when your paths are sided out.
The only thing is I wouldn't have 3 stubborns in addition to the chalices. I would cut down to 1 or 2. Natural state is also bad when you already have Talismans for blood moon resiliency. I also don't understand your graveyard hate.
As a side note, you're actually kinda weak to stony silence, which is also the reason you're not including it in your SB (you should).
my graveyard hate is based on how i can maximize the number of Ancient Stirrings-able hate pieces i can get for Dredge, Tormod’s Crypt, and Relic of Progenitus over rest in peace. i realized the match-up against dredge needs be a race in which a free graveyard hate in Tormod’s Crypt allows for Bant to continue to attack with out disruption, Relic can still be brought in against abzan and such. i still have to tinker with it a little bit. Iam still worried about the tron match-up. Australian Modern GP's are full of jund and abzan so alot of people will play tron.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBRWGHumansUBRWG UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron Legacy WDeath & TaxesW Pauper RGoblinsR EDH UGMerfolk ComboGU Standard UWApproachWU
Does Fatal Push affect our Matter Reshaper / Eldrazi Skyspawner decision? I had been leaning toward Skyspwaner, given the Blood Moon issues of late. But I'm thinking a tilt back toward Matter Reshaper might be in order. I'll probably test a 3:2 Reshaper:Skyspawner ratio.
Skyspawner:Reshaper ratio is always dependent on local meta, but I'm an advocate for more Skyspawners. It just does so much more in the first few turns... gives ramp, gives 2 bodies at once, can act as a mini replacement for drowner-displacer combo, gives us reach, gives us a flying blocker, etc etc.
my graveyard hate is based on how i can maximize the number of Ancient Stirrings-able hate pieces i can get for Dredge, Tormod’s Crypt, and Relic of Progenitus over rest in peace. i realized the match-up against dredge needs be a race in which a free graveyard hate in Tormod’s Crypt allows for Bant to continue to attack with out disruption, Relic can still be brought in against abzan and such. i still have to tinker with it a little bit. Iam still worried about the tron match-up. Australian Modern GP's are full of jund and abzan so alot of people will play tron.
Tron is not that bad of a matchup. 2 stony silence and 3 counterspells are enough, and not necessarily even necessary to win. We have answers to all of their threats except for karn and ostone. We also won't need that much grave hate now that dredge will probably fall to Tier 2.
--
The main change I'm going to test is replacing the MB spellskite with a lightning greaves, given infect is weakening. Unlike spellskite it has some use in every matchup by giving us more possible T4/T5 kill draws. It allows our drowners to almost act like reality smashers, since the scions can be used to cast a greaves. Even when we're playing defense it can be relevant by turning up our closing speed.
Does Fatal Push affect our Matter Reshaper / Eldrazi Skyspawner decision? I had been leaning toward Skyspwaner, given the Blood Moon issues of late. But I'm thinking a tilt back toward Matter Reshaper might be in order. I'll probably test a 3:2 Reshaper:Skyspawner ratio.
Skyspawner:Reshaper ratio is always dependent on local meta, but I'm an advocate for more Skyspawners. It just does so much more in the first few turns... gives ramp, gives 2 bodies at once, can act as a mini replacement for drowner-displacer combo, gives us reach, gives us a flying blocker, etc etc.
my graveyard hate is based on how i can maximize the number of Ancient Stirrings-able hate pieces i can get for Dredge, Tormod’s Crypt, and Relic of Progenitus over rest in peace. i realized the match-up against dredge needs be a race in which a free graveyard hate in Tormod’s Crypt allows for Bant to continue to attack with out disruption, Relic can still be brought in against abzan and such. i still have to tinker with it a little bit. Iam still worried about the tron match-up. Australian Modern GP's are full of jund and abzan so alot of people will play tron.
Tron is not that bad of a matchup. 2 stony silence and 3 counterspells are enough, and not necessarily even necessary to win. We have answers to all of their threats except for karn and ostone. We also won't need that much grave hate now that dredge will probably fall to Tier 2.
--
The main change I'm going to test is replacing the MB spellskite with a lightning greaves, given infect is weakening. Unlike spellskite it has some use in every matchup by giving us more possible T4/T5 kill draws. It allows our drowners to almost act like reality smashers, since the scions can be used to cast a greaves. Even when we're playing defense it can be relevant by turning up our closing speed.
I'm also going back down to 1 RIP.
wow i didn't realize the new banned list might not need graveyard hate at all
what do you see the meta coming down to now?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBRWGHumansUBRWG UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron Legacy WDeath & TaxesW Pauper RGoblinsR EDH UGMerfolk ComboGU Standard UWApproachWU
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Thank you all!
and yes you can use 4 birds and 2 talisman of progress (or unity if you dont have it)
if you play with talismans you aim for a longer game
and the exalted buff its good... yes but if you play against nahiri gideon and blessed alliance you try to attack with more than one creature even attack with the spellskite
The issue with shocklands is that they don't give you access to colorless mana. That's usually not a major issue with our painlands. Still though, it's something to consider.
Birds is strictly worse than noble, but birds will get you some of the way there.
In short, there's definitely a hit, but depending on the level of competition that you're playing in the deck should still be fine.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
Thank you all for the info! Looks like I will be picking up the small bits I am still missing.
There are many situations where I've found Ratchet bomb to be better than EE:
- Don't have to hold up mana to crack it. Put it on the relevant number and leave it there without any real cost to you while disincentivizing your opponent from developing their board.
- Can be cast through blood moon.
- Is more flexible than EE when you don't know what number you want.
It's possibly better than EE in the following matchups:
- Merfolk
- Elves
- Affinity
- Blood moon decks
- Abzan coco
Notice that these are decks that we are weak against!
It's basically the same as EE against:
- Decks reliant on enchantments or artifacts
- Token decks
It's also worth considering against Infect and UR Prowess, where it's worse than EE but still possibly worth siding in than some of your creatures because it can lock out the game once you've stabilized.
I also am testing Wastes in the SB. It's obviously the best out against any blood moon decks, but it also has several other purposes as a 24th land. It gives you another basic against GQ/path effects. It's a replacement for Hallowed fountain or Breeding pool against merfolk. It's also worth putting in when you cut dorks in attrition matchups where you side out dorks.
GRWNaya BurnGRW
GRWJundGRW
CAffinityC
UGUG EldraziUG
GRWBushwhacker ZooGRW
UBWRAd NauseamUBWR
Legacy
RBurnR
UBSneak & ShowUB
CEldrazi AggroC
Path isn't terrible for us because it helps us ramp into our bigger creatures and we have Ancient Stirrings to help replenish threats. Though on the flip side it does devalue our Matter Reshapers and can deal with any of our creatures regardless of size.
Worse than Path is Blood Moon. While we've been adjusting the deck to deal with Blood Moon (e.g., adding Talisman, more Skyspawner, a Waste even), it's still my least favorite card to see at this point. I'd side it in if you're having issues with Bant Eldrazi.
Edit: See below for Ensnaring Bridge (that's what I get for posting on no sleep).
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
This is true, but I'd still say Blood Moon is worse. EE isn't insanely hard to get off stirrings or just drawing it. At least with Bridge we can still cast our guys; tap down theirs with Displacer (with benefit of Temple), Drowner; blink a skyspwaner and get in with an increasing army of tokens, etc. And EE is sometimes easier to cast on 3 when there's no Blood Moon (though we do benefit from the Mountain when trying to cast EE on 3).
I guess my question would be, how many cards does the Burn player usually have in hand?
I can see merits to both. But a key difference is that Blood Moon hurts us when it comes down early; a Bridge hurts us more when it comes down late (since their hand will be almost depleted). This matchup tends not to go too many turns, so a Blood Moon seems more relevant to me.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
Worship would be difficult to deal with if you manage to get it down but i wonder if you have enough time vs other strategies you could side in like blessed alliance even.
GRWNaya BurnGRW
GRWJundGRW
CAffinityC
UGUG EldraziUG
GRWBushwhacker ZooGRW
UBWRAd NauseamUBWR
Legacy
RBurnR
UBSneak & ShowUB
CEldrazi AggroC
Not only keep tapping their creatures, we can deck them out with a TKS. Depending on the mana available, you can do 1-3 cards a turn.
Then if they're stuck with lands in their hands, you can just attack w scions or skyspawners/hierarchs
iv been testing chalice alot and its been doing very well for me, being able to bring it in many of the match ups, although sometimes it does nothing.
I am also not to sure about natural state maybe have something against tron instead, if there is something besides stony silence.
spellskite main played great since most of the decks you want it against dont have artifact hate main and searchable through stirrings.
Talisman also allows you to still play turn 3 seer and turn 4 smasher when you dont have the crazy hands
any advice?
4 Drowner of Hope
1 Spellskite
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Instants (4)
4 Path to Exile
Sorceries (4)
4 Ancient Stirrings
Artifacts (5)
2 Talisman of Progress
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Windswept Heath
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in peace
2 Worship
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Natural State
3 Chalice of the void
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
The only thing is I wouldn't have 3 stubborns in addition to the chalices. I would cut down to 1 or 2. Natural state is also bad when you already have Talismans for blood moon resiliency. I also don't understand your graveyard hate.
As a side note, you're actually kinda weak to stony silence, which is also the reason you're not including it in your SB (you should).
Dredge is not as dead as you think it is...crippled, yes, but still very much so there.
Cathartic Renunion ban would have done ALOT more to it.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
Does Fatal Push affect our Matter Reshaper / Eldrazi Skyspawner decision? I had been leaning toward Skyspwaner, given the Blood Moon issues of late. But I'm thinking a tilt back toward Matter Reshaper might be in order. I'll probably test a 3:2 Reshaper:Skyspawner ratio.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
my graveyard hate is based on how i can maximize the number of Ancient Stirrings-able hate pieces i can get for Dredge, Tormod’s Crypt, and Relic of Progenitus over rest in peace. i realized the match-up against dredge needs be a race in which a free graveyard hate in Tormod’s Crypt allows for Bant to continue to attack with out disruption, Relic can still be brought in against abzan and such. i still have to tinker with it a little bit. Iam still worried about the tron match-up. Australian Modern GP's are full of jund and abzan so alot of people will play tron.
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
Skyspawner:Reshaper ratio is always dependent on local meta, but I'm an advocate for more Skyspawners. It just does so much more in the first few turns... gives ramp, gives 2 bodies at once, can act as a mini replacement for drowner-displacer combo, gives us reach, gives us a flying blocker, etc etc.
--
Tron is not that bad of a matchup. 2 stony silence and 3 counterspells are enough, and not necessarily even necessary to win. We have answers to all of their threats except for karn and ostone. We also won't need that much grave hate now that dredge will probably fall to Tier 2.
--
The main change I'm going to test is replacing the MB spellskite with a lightning greaves, given infect is weakening. Unlike spellskite it has some use in every matchup by giving us more possible T4/T5 kill draws. It allows our drowners to almost act like reality smashers, since the scions can be used to cast a greaves. Even when we're playing defense it can be relevant by turning up our closing speed.
I'm also going back down to 1 RIP.
wow i didn't realize the new banned list might not need graveyard hate at all
what do you see the meta coming down to now?
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU