Well I'm currently on a somewhat budget list, having hand disruption is key against combo and as for turn 2 plays, if you're like me who can no longer afford auriok champs...well I use raise the alarm. Gives instant speed tokens when I don't have bb in hand.
Edit:
I use 3/3 split between IoK and TS
6 discard is about right. I like 4 iok/2 thoughtseize ... And depending what's going on week to week I may add a Castigate to that.
I go back and forth on Wrath effects. While clearly good in some matches, when I have run it the effect comes down too late. I either didn't draw into enough mana to use it efficiently or it was too late (looking at you Merfok).
I probably sound like a broken record, but a resolved Ghostly Prison is an insurmountable obstacle for merfolk. If it resolves, they have no answer to it, and we are practically guaranteed to win unless our life total is critically low. If you have one in hand, try to bait out or discard their counterspells first.
The one CoCo deck I've been having the most troubles with is CoCo elves, I try to disrupt them early, and try to build some board presence starting on turn 3, but by that time, they already have either means to generate insane amounts of mana and are waiting for either a CoCo or a Chord (If I happened to have removed the ones they got on the starting hand), if I remove an archdruid or ezuri instead, they just search for another. I've read that disrupting their early 1/1 mana generators sets them back, but I don't think I've been able to take advantage of that, again...choices, if I remove their dorks early, I don't disrupt their hand enough, if I disrupt their hand, they just top deck to combo off.
Zealous Persecution seems good against them, I've been taking those off the deck before(I started playing with the event deck, as my first and only modern deck, very recently), so I'll be trying that, I don't have Thoughtseize (maybe that's one of the reason why I'm not too fond of hand disruption, since I'm playing a suboptimal list...)so I use despice, IoK and duress, I've tried with castigate too, but I often prefer the scullers instead.
This is the list I've been using (I know is fairly mediocre, sorry, I'm just starting in modern/competitive formats)
I go back and forth on Wrath effects. While clearly good in some matches, when I have run it the effect comes down too late. I either didn't draw into enough mana to use it efficiently or it was too late (looking at you Merfok).
I probably sound like a broken record, but a resolved Ghostly Prison is an insurmountable obstacle for merfolk. If it resolves, they have no answer to it, and we are practically guaranteed to win unless our life total is critically low. If you have one in hand, try to bait out or discard their counterspells first.
Yeah, I'm running Wrath main and 1 side. I think I like it enough to try replacing them with Prison for a little while.
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There are probably a few others I'm missing... it should be noted that you will need to play around your own sweepers, so obviously you don't want to cast a ton of tokens before you play one. Also, a lot of sweepers have a double B mana cost, which is something to consider because you may not be able to hit that reliably when it matters without tweaking your manabase. Overall, there are quite a few options though. Also, as DHamlin mentioned, Hallowed Moonlight is pretty solid tech against a CoCo or Chord.
Looking at your list, I would say cut the Coat of Arms, its not helping you out at 5 mana, and you are already running 7 anthems(!) + Sorin which should be plenty of pump. Try to pick up the 4th Path to Exile and work on getting a playset of cheap white fetch lands and 4X godless shrine. Looking good though... post your sideboard too.
Curse of death's hold not NoSB imo, I don't think you can assume you will have an anthem 100% of the time and if you don't well all your creatures are dead and you die to his 2/2's
Worship is great tech for these matches, I treat coco/elves like a merfolk match up, they also don't have nearly as many lords path captain overrun and you should have enough time to win regardless. If you can strip the tap 3 get mana guys with early discard that really helps too.
It's silly to assume that you won't have an anthem 100% of the time, but you will be getting to five mana before they kill you. 5 is a lot for modern and should be saved for extreme cases. There's no way we should be playing either of these cards. Drown in Sorrow is something that you can play before turn 4 (when you can expect to die). Use your spot removal to not die, sweep up their board with Drown, and then they'll be close to topdeck mode where we should be able to control the board. If you live to cast NoSB/Curse of Death's Hold you were winning that game anyways. And you'll be losing games to having such uncastable cards in your hand without real action.
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You can find Joshua Cho's list from SCG last weekend on the primer. In watching the matches and playing around with the deck, I had some observations:
- In just about every on camera match, Gideon seemed like a win-more. He cast it a lot for the walker+token and then pushed through the next turn with 7 in at least one match. That was awesome, but he could also field a lot of tokens anyway. I guess it made the clock shorter too. I don't like the mana cost for the anthem effect though, especially when I have a Sorin. The tech definitely deserves more testing though and I was wrong on Sorin, but I felt like he could have used those turns more efficiently. I am wondering if an Elspeth Tirel (which is frankly less good, but the ultimate is a great control effect) or an Elspeth, Knight Errant might not be better in this build.
- 25 land (which I played around with instead of his 26) is super sweet. Basically, you get all of the things you need to cast your spells and then some. I haven't done enough testing, but I think 26 is overkill. I think an earlier poster said the sweet spot is 24-26 and I tend to agree.
- Having said that: I was flooded in one game. Bad. While I prefer the card draw engine of Windrisk Heights over Shambling Vent, I think Shambling Vent becomes a lot better the more lands you run. The excess mana also makes Vault of the Archangel a thing that can be really used rather than a colorless land that I might not activate. I am wondering if there are other cards that we could use to generate tokens with the excess mana?
- I didn't miss Spectral Procession.
- I managed to pull of the Ghost Quarter + Aven Mindcensor combo three times. In two of those occasions, it caused my opponent to miss finding a land. In the one match where they did find a basic, it was not optimal. I would say that in none of these situations did the maneuver cost my opponent the game, but it did set them back. Ghost Quarter also performed when I knew my opponent's mana base and could take a land that they really needed and trade it for one that was not as useful. So, I am not sold on Aven Mindcensor even though it is a cute trick and I have seen it totally blow out an opponent.
I will probably test out Aven Mindcensor a bit more, but I feel that there are better cards for the 75 at this point.
Your main deck list is fairly similarly to my list.
My mana base is a little different because I'm currently ignoring Tron, but basically I run 3 Vents, 2 Vaults, and no Heights, and no Quarters, but 3 Flagstones. Reasons being that meta is filled with CoCo/Zoo/Aggro and some land destruction/prison decks. (For this same meta reason I also run 2 basic swamps and 4 basic plains.) If I were prepping for Tron I'd cut back on my basics and vaults and add 4 quarters. I also usually run 3 Godless Shrines and 1 or 0 Chapels.
As far as the non-land cards in the deck go, I've pretty much got the Thoughtseize/Inquisition counts reversed, and run Slaughter Pact instead of Wrath of God. Instead of Midnight haunting I run Secure the Wastes 2x and 1 Spectral Procession. In this segment of the deck I mess with Walkers some (maybe a Gideon instead of a Sorin) and removal ratios/Auriok count. In some metas I go to 2 Auriok (or 24 lands) which allows a 2nd spectral.
But I overall I consider my builds to be fairly similar.
Turn 1,if you are on the draw I suppose you could path something like Swiftspear or Goblin Guide or something. If you aren't using discard. But not sure why you would use removal so early when you can see their hand instead. Remove something, and plan your strategy. If you see some sort of disenchants in the hand you don't play Virtue turn 2 for example, unless that's the card you remove. With all the combo and to protect your otherwise wimpy tokens, discard is kind of why you play tokens. On the play probably just put in a tapped land to save bolting yourself? Not a terrible choice I guess.
I don't play BB, but I try to drop an anthem turn 2 often. That way when I bring in tokens turn 3, they aren't as wipeable say by a Staticaster or something. But, depends. With my green splash, I imagine I'm hoping for voice turn 2.
I don't have fetches and aurioks because I just recently quit my job but I'll be getting them once I find a day job and a part time. Sideboard is mostly stock bw token sb that I change depending on which lgs and playgroup I play with.
I'm planning on getting a Gideon AoZ as it did pull its weight while testing against random decks (using the the now banned method of proxying).
Manabase is clunky but I can't afford fetches atm. I usually split the CoK with GQ if the group is saturated with tron.
Need help on polishing the numbers though. In testing, it's doing well, no one expects bb+raise together. Lol
Just for the record, WOTC did release a statement that said it was fine with "playtest" cards and they didn't care what you did with them as long as it wasn't sell them as MTG or use them in sanctioned events.
Wizards of the Coast has no desire to police playtest cards made for personal, non-commercial use, even if that usage takes place in a store.
Just going to drop a tournament report for a 3-2 finish at FNM. I ised the same list I posted a few pages back.
Match 1: 4c Scapeshift
This is an interesting deck, but when you love basic lands as much as my opponent did, this is your deck. It's kind of late when I'm writing this so most of it is a blur. Sorin plus all of the tokens got me out of Valakut range game one. Game two is completely blank for me. Game three I flood out and die to Tribe Elder/Snap beats, drawing a land (and not even a manland) every draw step. He got this one, all the while us laughing about who is actually on Scapeshift when I have 13 lands in play.
0-1
Match 2: Kiki-Chord
This guy had really slow starts. I path his Kiki when he tries to go off, and that seals games one. Game two is much the same: he was jusy way to slow. I think this is a 60/40 matchup favoring us. They can be very explosve, and I mean almost Amulet Bloom (or as I call it, Amulet BOOM fter the sound a turn two Titan makes) explosive, but more often than not they are a little slow out the gates. Easy win.
1-1
Match 3: Amulet... wait for it... BOOM...
Game one he nabs just barely while I keep him off balance with discard and swarming with tokens. At one point, I ran out of tokens at nine on the board, and I had to throw them in front of the massive double-striking beast. He gets it after that massive block to keep myself alive. Game two is summed up by my opening hand: IoK, IoK, IoK (Yeas, that's THREE of them!), LotV, Godless Shrine, Fetid Heath, GQ. Yeah, he wasn't gonnna win that one by a long shot. Game three I take by shutting him down again with a less relesntless hand, but crush him anyway.
2-1
Match 4: ... Annnnnd AFTERSHOCK (Amulet Bloom)
Again? Oh well, beat 'em once, I'll do it again. Or so I thought. Game one I die to Hive Mind + Pact after fighting him down to a few life points. Discard was worse here because he was running Slight of Hand and Serum Visions, which made recovering much easier. Game two I take due to his bad draws and after I smashed some tokens into him despite mana screw. LotV tried to run his hand down, but his cantrips kept hin alive a lot longer than I was comfortable with. Game three I get land screwed again, and Lili fought valiantly but ultimately could not stop two Titans
2-2
Round 5: (Dramatic Beethoven "DUN DUND DUN DAAAA") RG Tron
I see tunr one Tower into Star and I know I am so f*****. However, I keep him off of the new Ulamog with discard and slowly but surely take him down game one! Game two I keep a decent hand, can't really remember it, but I know that I swarmed the board with tokens while Lili and Ajani Goldmane locked down the hand supplied vigilence, forcing hin to draw the Ugin. He casts Sylvan Scrying and says, "C'mon, cut me to Ugin!" Sure enough, I did, and I lose my board. I die to a split Wurmcoil easily. Noticeably, he was misplaying, given I had lethal on the board and he was just not playing correctly. He was not familiar with the matchup either. Game three I keep a hand with three Thoughtseizes and rip his hand to shreds. I just keeo bashing him and he waits until the last minute to crack O-Stone and nuke the board, but it was too late. I just kind of squashed him. I take a victory lap for winning the worst matchup ever.
3-2
What I learned:
1. Lili is super powerful if she isn't dealt with and destroys my opponent's hand. I was skeptical of her until today. She was an all-star.
2. Ajani Goldmane is NUTS. This guy makes tokens grow uncontrollably unless dealt with immediately. Definitely try him out!
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
I guess I'm shelving this until SOI, they took down our best Tier 1 match and Tron vs Eldrazi vs Burn doesn't look like an enviroment where we can thrive.
IMO, with those decks out we have more space in our decks to dedicate cards to more problematic MUs. my doubt now is that auriok champ is now useless or still can see some use against certain decks.
now tron is the top tier deck, that means that a lot of people are going to bring a lot more hate to deal with it.
Eldrazi is beatable but tough, I guess the same with Tron but it's much tougher. With Twin gone Blood Moon is almost more reasonable SB vs both those cause we'll have a few openings SB. On that note anyone in the market for a really nice foil 8th edition one lol. Just picked it up in trade tonight. Might actually have a use for it now. Everyone I talked to tonight about this thought with Twin gone stuff like Burn, Infect, Affinity, and Jund/Junk will see increasing percentages and that Delver might make it back into Tier 1. All of those are decent to outright good matchups for us.
6 discard is about right. I like 4 iok/2 thoughtseize ... And depending what's going on week to week I may add a Castigate to that.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
I probably sound like a broken record, but a resolved Ghostly Prison is an insurmountable obstacle for merfolk. If it resolves, they have no answer to it, and we are practically guaranteed to win unless our life total is critically low. If you have one in hand, try to bait out or discard their counterspells first.
BW Eldrazi - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-eldrazi-proc/
U Merfolk - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fishmode/
Zealous Persecution seems good against them, I've been taking those off the deck before(I started playing with the event deck, as my first and only modern deck, very recently), so I'll be trying that, I don't have Thoughtseize (maybe that's one of the reason why I'm not too fond of hand disruption, since I'm playing a suboptimal list...)so I use despice, IoK and duress, I've tried with castigate too, but I often prefer the scullers instead.
This is the list I've been using (I know is fairly mediocre, sorry, I'm just starting in modern/competitive formats)
3 Windbrisk Heights
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Swamp
7 Plains
2 Vault of the Archangel
Enchantments
3 Honor of the Pure
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Coat of Arms
Instants
3 Path to Exile
2 Raise the Alarm
2 Doom Blade
2 Secure the Wastes
Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Spectral Procession
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
2 Timely Reinforcements
4 Lingering Souls
Yeah, I'm running Wrath main and 1 side. I think I like it enough to try replacing them with Prison for a little while.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Sweepers are useful:
bile blight, infest, Drown in Sorrow, Languish, Wrath of God, ratchet bomb of course Zealous Persecution is super useful at 2 mana because you can cast it before their dudes get +1/+1.
More expensive options:
Engineered Explosives, Damnation, Night of Souls' Betrayal (your tokens should be fine if you have anthems out) Chalice of the Void on one to stop mana dorks.
There are probably a few others I'm missing... it should be noted that you will need to play around your own sweepers, so obviously you don't want to cast a ton of tokens before you play one. Also, a lot of sweepers have a double B mana cost, which is something to consider because you may not be able to hit that reliably when it matters without tweaking your manabase. Overall, there are quite a few options though. Also, as DHamlin mentioned, Hallowed Moonlight is pretty solid tech against a CoCo or Chord.
Looking at your list, I would say cut the Coat of Arms, its not helping you out at 5 mana, and you are already running 7 anthems(!) + Sorin which should be plenty of pump. Try to pick up the 4th Path to Exile and work on getting a playset of cheap white fetch lands and 4X godless shrine. Looking good though... post your sideboard too.
BW Eldrazi - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-eldrazi-proc/
U Merfolk - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fishmode/
Worship is great tech for these matches, I treat coco/elves like a merfolk match up, they also don't have nearly as many lords path captain overrun and you should have enough time to win regardless. If you can strip the tap 3 get mana guys with early discard that really helps too.
My normal SB would be like Wrath of god worship Timely Reinforcements in 3x Bitterblossom out.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
- In just about every on camera match, Gideon seemed like a win-more. He cast it a lot for the walker+token and then pushed through the next turn with 7 in at least one match. That was awesome, but he could also field a lot of tokens anyway. I guess it made the clock shorter too. I don't like the mana cost for the anthem effect though, especially when I have a Sorin. The tech definitely deserves more testing though and I was wrong on Sorin, but I felt like he could have used those turns more efficiently. I am wondering if an Elspeth Tirel (which is frankly less good, but the ultimate is a great control effect) or an Elspeth, Knight Errant might not be better in this build.
- 25 land (which I played around with instead of his 26) is super sweet. Basically, you get all of the things you need to cast your spells and then some. I haven't done enough testing, but I think 26 is overkill. I think an earlier poster said the sweet spot is 24-26 and I tend to agree.
- Having said that: I was flooded in one game. Bad. While I prefer the card draw engine of Windrisk Heights over Shambling Vent, I think Shambling Vent becomes a lot better the more lands you run. The excess mana also makes Vault of the Archangel a thing that can be really used rather than a colorless land that I might not activate. I am wondering if there are other cards that we could use to generate tokens with the excess mana?
- I didn't miss Spectral Procession.
- I managed to pull of the Ghost Quarter + Aven Mindcensor combo three times. In two of those occasions, it caused my opponent to miss finding a land. In the one match where they did find a basic, it was not optimal. I would say that in none of these situations did the maneuver cost my opponent the game, but it did set them back. Ghost Quarter also performed when I knew my opponent's mana base and could take a land that they really needed and trade it for one that was not as useful. So, I am not sold on Aven Mindcensor even though it is a cute trick and I have seen it totally blow out an opponent.
I am considering the following build:
2 Shambling Vent
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
2 Fetid Heath
2 Isolated Chapel
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Windbrisk Heights
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Wrath of God
1 Murderous Cut
4 Bitterblossom
4 Lingering Souls
3 Midnight Haunting
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Intangible Virtue
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Duress
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Timely Reinforcements
I will probably test out Aven Mindcensor a bit more, but I feel that there are better cards for the 75 at this point.
Your main deck list is fairly similarly to my list.
My mana base is a little different because I'm currently ignoring Tron, but basically I run 3 Vents, 2 Vaults, and no Heights, and no Quarters, but 3 Flagstones. Reasons being that meta is filled with CoCo/Zoo/Aggro and some land destruction/prison decks. (For this same meta reason I also run 2 basic swamps and 4 basic plains.) If I were prepping for Tron I'd cut back on my basics and vaults and add 4 quarters. I also usually run 3 Godless Shrines and 1 or 0 Chapels.
As far as the non-land cards in the deck go, I've pretty much got the Thoughtseize/Inquisition counts reversed, and run Slaughter Pact instead of Wrath of God. Instead of Midnight haunting I run Secure the Wastes 2x and 1 Spectral Procession. In this segment of the deck I mess with Walkers some (maybe a Gideon instead of a Sorin) and removal ratios/Auriok count. In some metas I go to 2 Auriok (or 24 lands) which allows a 2nd spectral.
But I overall I consider my builds to be fairly similar.
Sideboard I differ a lot.
I don't play BB, but I try to drop an anthem turn 2 often. That way when I bring in tokens turn 3, they aren't as wipeable say by a Staticaster or something. But, depends. With my green splash, I imagine I'm hoping for voice turn 2.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
4 godless shrine
4 isolated chapel
3 windbrisk heights
2 shambling vent
2 fetid heath
3 plains
1 swamp
1 vault of the archangel
4 intangible virtue
4 raise the alarm
4 lingering souls
4 spectral procession
3 inquisition of kozilek
3 thoughtseize
1 murderous cut
1 dismember
1 zealous persecution
2 sorin, solemn visitor
1 elspeth,knight errant
I don't have fetches and aurioks because I just recently quit my job but I'll be getting them once I find a day job and a part time. Sideboard is mostly stock bw token sb that I change depending on which lgs and playgroup I play with.
I'm planning on getting a Gideon AoZ as it did pull its weight while testing against random decks (using the the now banned method of proxying).
Manabase is clunky but I can't afford fetches atm. I usually split the CoK with GQ if the group is saturated with tron.
Need help on polishing the numbers though. In testing, it's doing well, no one expects bb+raise together. Lol
Source posted yesterday
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Match 1: 4c Scapeshift
This is an interesting deck, but when you love basic lands as much as my opponent did, this is your deck. It's kind of late when I'm writing this so most of it is a blur. Sorin plus all of the tokens got me out of Valakut range game one. Game two is completely blank for me. Game three I flood out and die to Tribe Elder/Snap beats, drawing a land (and not even a manland) every draw step. He got this one, all the while us laughing about who is actually on Scapeshift when I have 13 lands in play.
0-1
Match 2: Kiki-Chord
This guy had really slow starts. I path his Kiki when he tries to go off, and that seals games one. Game two is much the same: he was jusy way to slow. I think this is a 60/40 matchup favoring us. They can be very explosve, and I mean almost Amulet Bloom (or as I call it, Amulet BOOM fter the sound a turn two Titan makes) explosive, but more often than not they are a little slow out the gates. Easy win.
1-1
Match 3: Amulet... wait for it... BOOM...
Game one he nabs just barely while I keep him off balance with discard and swarming with tokens. At one point, I ran out of tokens at nine on the board, and I had to throw them in front of the massive double-striking beast. He gets it after that massive block to keep myself alive. Game two is summed up by my opening hand: IoK, IoK, IoK (Yeas, that's THREE of them!), LotV, Godless Shrine, Fetid Heath, GQ. Yeah, he wasn't gonnna win that one by a long shot. Game three I take by shutting him down again with a less relesntless hand, but crush him anyway.
2-1
Match 4: ... Annnnnd AFTERSHOCK (Amulet Bloom)
Again? Oh well, beat 'em once, I'll do it again. Or so I thought. Game one I die to Hive Mind + Pact after fighting him down to a few life points. Discard was worse here because he was running Slight of Hand and Serum Visions, which made recovering much easier. Game two I take due to his bad draws and after I smashed some tokens into him despite mana screw. LotV tried to run his hand down, but his cantrips kept hin alive a lot longer than I was comfortable with. Game three I get land screwed again, and Lili fought valiantly but ultimately could not stop two Titans
2-2
Round 5: (Dramatic Beethoven "DUN DUND DUN DAAAA") RG Tron
I see tunr one Tower into Star and I know I am so f*****. However, I keep him off of the new Ulamog with discard and slowly but surely take him down game one! Game two I keep a decent hand, can't really remember it, but I know that I swarmed the board with tokens while Lili and Ajani Goldmane locked down the hand supplied vigilence, forcing hin to draw the Ugin. He casts Sylvan Scrying and says, "C'mon, cut me to Ugin!" Sure enough, I did, and I lose my board. I die to a split Wurmcoil easily. Noticeably, he was misplaying, given I had lethal on the board and he was just not playing correctly. He was not familiar with the matchup either. Game three I keep a hand with three Thoughtseizes and rip his hand to shreds. I just keeo bashing him and he waits until the last minute to crack O-Stone and nuke the board, but it was too late. I just kind of squashed him. I take a victory lap for winning the worst matchup ever.
3-2
What I learned:
1. Lili is super powerful if she isn't dealt with and destroys my opponent's hand. I was skeptical of her until today. She was an all-star.
2. Ajani Goldmane is NUTS. This guy makes tokens grow uncontrollably unless dealt with immediately. Definitely try him out!
now tron is the top tier deck, that means that a lot of people are going to bring a lot more hate to deal with it.