I really like your list. It is practically the same list that I plan to run in the future (when I get the lilis) but you include a thoughtseize and a BB over my 2 collective brutalities. Any specific reason for that? Don't you think 3 BB suffice? Also, CB synergizes awesomely with S//F.
Thanks! I'm very slowly writing up a detailed description for the deck. Borrowing from one section that's actually finished on my tappedout page regarding Thoughtseize and Collective Brutality:
Ultimately, it came down to a meta call. Thoughtseize is probably stronger than Inquisition of Kozilek in the overall competitive meta right now due to the current prevalence of Grixis Shadow and Eldrazi Tron. However, Burn and Affinity decks are both abundant in my local meta at the moment and this deck already bleeds a lot of life, so I made the call to run IoQ and Thoughtseize in a 4/3 Split.
Collective Brutality is a strong card at the moment, and it does have synergy with Lingering Souls and Start / Finish, but it's very difficult to overstate the importance of Turn 1 hand disruption in BW Tokens. Additionally, Liliana of the Veil enables supplementary hand disruption, as well as the same Lingering Souls and S/F synergy possessed by Collective Brutality's Escalate cost. It was a difficult choice, but I ended up deciding not to include CB in this build, although I'll be the first to admit that it is definitely a reasonable choice for BW Tokens.
To answer your other question, I think that it makes sense to run the full playset of Bitterblossom in a BW Tokens build that favors control over speed. It's the two-drop token producer that keeps on giving, and IMO, one of the strongest cards in the deck.
So you guys have got me thinking about my tokens deck, which has gone long neglected. I see that a few of you have been experimenting with splashing a 3rd color, and I thought I might try that too. At first I toyed around with blue, thinking that some sideboard counterspells (Ceremonious Rejection, Negate, or Disdainful Stroke) might help our weak matchups against combo and control. Tokens is pretty proactive though, and really wants to be playing its spells on curve; I felt like there wasn't really an opportunity for me to cast counterspells without seriously setting back my own gameplan. So blue ended up kind of being a flop. I couldn't really think of much that I wanted from red either, except perhaps Blood Moon, but even that seemed like a real long shot considering the horrible things I'd have to do to my mana base (so long Spectral Procession) just to get it to work. Probably not worth it at all, I figure.
Green, though. I think green might be where it's at.
Anybody playing against tokens has a pretty clear idea of what they need to do with their sideboard: cut all the spot removal and bring in 1) sweepers, especially "one-sided" ones like Anger of the Gods, Pyroclasm, Flaying Tendrils, Echoing Truth, etc., and 2) enchantment hate for our anthems and Bitterblossoms. The last thing they are expecting to see from our side of the table is a big old beefy Tarmogoyf. For this reason I like Goyf just as a fast clock against decks that want to either combo out or go over us, like Tron, Valakut, Ad Nauseum, Storm, etc. I experimented with more traditional answers in a pure BW build, but they seem to get blown up too frequently by the enchantment hate that our opponents are boarding in against us anyway (as is the case with Runed Halo and Rest in Peace), or are just too reactive or unreliable without the aid of cantrips to find them (stuff like Lost Legacy or a 2 Surgical/2 Fulminator package). Goyf is proactive, reliable, and often goes unanswered since our opponents are cutting all their spot removal. Tokens is also pretty well set-up to grow it to enormous size (thanks again Bitterblossom!).
The splash does come at a price, though: more painful mana and no more Ghost Quarter. I'm not entirely sure it's worth the trade, to be honest, but what do you guys think?
So you guys have got me thinking about my tokens deck, which has gone long neglected. I see that a few of you have been experimenting with splashing a 3rd color, and I thought I might try that too. At first I toyed around with blue, thinking that some sideboard counterspells (Ceremonious Rejection, Negate, or Disdainful Stroke) might help our weak matchups against combo and control. Tokens is pretty proactive though, and really wants to be playing its spells on curve; I felt like there wasn't really an opportunity for me to cast counterspells without seriously setting back my own gameplan. So blue ended up kind of being a flop. I couldn't really think of much that I wanted from red either, except perhaps Blood Moon, but even that seemed like a real long shot considering the horrible things I'd have to do to my mana base (so long Spectral Procession) just to get it to work. Probably not worth it at all, I figure.
Green, though. I think green might be where it's at.
Anybody playing against tokens has a pretty clear idea of what they need to do with their sideboard: cut all the spot removal and bring in 1) sweepers, especially "one-sided" ones like Anger of the Gods, Pyroclasm, Flaying Tendrils, Echoing Truth, etc., and 2) enchantment hate for our anthems and Bitterblossoms. The last thing they are expecting to see from our side of the table is a big old beefy Tarmogoyf. For this reason I like Goyf just as a fast clock against decks that want to either combo out or go over us, like Tron, Valakut, Ad Nauseum, Storm, etc. I experimented with more traditional answers in a pure BW build, but they seem to get blown up too frequently by the enchantment hate that our opponents are boarding in against us anyway (as is the case with Runed Halo and Rest in Peace), or are just too reactive or unreliable without the aid of cantrips to find them (stuff like Lost Legacy or a 2 Surgical/2 Fulminator package). Goyf is proactive, reliable, and often goes unanswered since our opponents are cutting all their spot removal. Tokens is also pretty well set-up to grow it to enormous size (thanks again Bitterblossom!).
The splash does come at a price, though: more painful mana and no more Ghost Quarter. I'm not entirely sure it's worth the trade, to be honest, but what do you guys think?
I don't have to ask, an LGS owner in my area does it. Bloodchief ascension combo!
The only thing I liked about a blue splash is polymorph into emrakul, the aeons torn and to a lesser extent ceremonious rejection. I've found brimaz, king of oreskos is a solid sideboard card if you want to go that rout, I've been considering it again. Survives anger of the gods, flaying tendrils, and pyroclasm with vigilance while building up our board. He is 3cmc not 2cmc like tarmogoyf but also doesn't require a rebuild of a very stable mana base and still punishes our opponents for boarding out spot removal. I might just dig up my copies and give it another go
I feel that for any tokens build looking to splash green, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar needs to be considered. Not sure if you already checked her out or not but a big way to grow tokens on top of Gavony Township.
TI've found brimaz, king of oreskos is a solid sideboard card if you want to go that rout, I've been considering it again. Survives anger of the gods, flaying tendrils, and pyroclasm with vigilance while building up our board. He is 3cmc not 2cmc like tarmogoyf but also doesn't require a rebuild of a very stable mana base and still punishes our opponents for boarding out spot removal.
Brimaz is definitely a pretty solid beater. If I remember correctly he used to be something of a staple in BW tokens lists way back in the day. Maybe I will bring him out and give him a go, or perhaps his buddy Mirran Crusader (great in a meta where hardly anybody plays lightning bolt anymore!).
As for "less-controlling" tokens lists: I think people are mostly just referring to lists that use Raise the Alarm instead of Bitterblossom, less removal/discard, and more threats. Things like Tidehollow Sculler and Blade Splicer used to show up sometimes in these lists, or even Hero of Bladehold. Some people also ran additional anthems in the form of Honor of the Pure, since it synergizes well with your non-token creatures and without Bitterblossom all your tokens are white anyway. It can be pretty brutal to just slam multiple anthems in a row and race your opponent in the air, but you also run the risk of flooding out on them and not drawing enough threats.
These days though it seems like pretty much everybody is playing Bitterblossom. It's just crazy good!
I feel that for any tokens build looking to splash green, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar needs to be considered. Not sure if you already checked her out or not but a big way to grow tokens on top of Gavony Township.
I haven't played with Nissa before, but I've seen her in action and definitely agree that she is crazy good. To run her you have to go a bit deeper into green than I am willing to though, since GG on t3 is a tough ask if you're just splashing.
Here's a top 16 list from GP Los Angeles last year that uses her though: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12485&d=271893&f=MO
He goes pretty deep, with mana dorks and everything. I have to imagine that not many people were expecting to play against that kind of craziness ;o
Edit: I'd definitely say this list is a more aggressive, less controlling build. He's totally forgone discard spells and is entirely focused on just beating down with a hoard of giant tokens.
Just for reference, what does the other more aggressive and proactive build actually look like?
I´m not sure I´ve ever seen one posted here. I anyone could post a list or link me to one I´d really appreciate that
Roughly Speaking:
22 Land. 23 if it includes one Windbrisk Heights, which is better in a build like this than it is in a control build because of how many creature buffs it can flash in. Also good for cheating in a Gideon.
Rapidly creating a bunch of big tokens and aggressively beating down the opponent is great and all, but B/W tokens has access to the best removal and disruption in the format, which happens to pair really well with a paced, and sometimes conservative (given that sweepers are a thing) flying token strategy.
I've never ran Tidehollow Sculler in BW tokens but I have run it in BW hate bears, BW eldrazi processor, and similar builds. I think it could come in out of the sideboard as added hand disruption with a body attached. My biggest problem is that it turns on spot removal and you are almost forced to take said removal if they have it otherwise they just remove sculler. I like Brimaz, King of Oreskos over Hero of Bladehold, both do a similar job of building your board state while being a very large threat but they should come out of the sideboard. One of tokens biggest strengths is the fact that we "blank" our opponents spot removal which creates dead cards for them. I find it funny having my tokens pushed or better yet pathed.
I used to run Windbrisk Heights when I first got into tokens and to be honest I hate that card. It never seemed to do anything worthwhile. Sure you can cheat a Gideon or spectral procession but in my experience you end up with nothing good like RTA or hand disruption. I removed it months ago and haven't missed it once.
I see it the other way. Running a traditional tokens build we have card advantage against any deck with targeted removal (almost all decks) because our token producers make more then 1 creature per card and their removal costs a card. In the case of Lingering Souls and Push they use a card to remove 1/4 of our card which leaves us with virtual card advantage of 3/4 of a card. By mainboarding actual creature cards you remove that inherit advantage and allow your opponent to trade you 1 card for 1 card.
After game 1 your opponent will more then likely sideboard out targeted removal like Path or Push for sweepers like Flaying Tendrils, Pyroclasm, or Anger of the Gods then if you were to bring in Brimaz or Hero from the sideboard you are gaining an advantage again by negating the effectiveness of their cards. Is this a fool proof strategy? No, we can't guarantee we find Brimaz and we can't guarantee our opponents will board out all of their spot removal. In fact some opponents will leave it in because they don't have anything better or just to deal with our potential Gideon attacks but its better then turning on our opponents mainboard removal options.
Looking for advice on valakut matchup.
I added 2 runed halo to my sideboard in anticipation of an increase in titan/shapeshift decks. Ran tokens at Thursday night modern last night beating Mardu nahiri and RW prison, both pretty handily. Lost to burn and titanshift. I feel like the valakut matches I need to just mulligan hard for the runed halo because it feels pretty impossible otherwise. I boarded in 2x halo, 2x surgical (I run 3x ghost quarter) and 2x Auriok champion. Game 1 I kept an aggressive curve that would otherwise be great but he hit me for 18 (my exact life total) when I had lethal on board. Game 2 I kept a 6 with 2x Thoughtseize, collective brutality and ghost quarter thinking I can try to keep him from getting his payoff cards. I strip him of a titan and 2x scapeshift. Naturally he tops a scapeshift right when he needs it. I had ghost quarter up and after losing I see I was going to draw a surgical next turn.
Should I be prioritizing keeping my life above 18? Is it better to try to keep pressure and hope they stumble
On their ramp? Is hand disruption just not worth it?
I think these valakut decks are the most infuriating decks in modern and I want to beat them reliably so people stop playing them.
I think these valakut decks are the most infuriating decks in modern and I want to beat them reliably so people stop playing them.
Honestly it sounds like you just got extremely unlucky Sideboarding works out like that sometimes I guess... even if you have the answers, you don't always draw them. It's especially true in a shell with no deck manipulation (like us).
In my experience against decks like valakut (and also tron) disruption is of course very important, but putting them on a fast clock is super important as well. We can grind a titanshift player down to topdeck mode, rip up their hand, surgical their titans, but if the game drags on long enough they will still beat us simply by playing lands. Tron's the same way. It's critical to threaten their life total as soon as possible, so that our disruption meets a payoff in the end. Since racing them with a traditional tokens setup usually means flooding the board and overextending into sweepers, I like to have some kind of non-token beatstick in the sideboard for matchups like that. Tarmogoyf is my weapon of choice (I splash green for it), especially against decks like titanshift that have Anger of the Gods.
So I went to a PPTQ today with 34 people and ended up 4-1-1 for the 6th position. Very happy with the deck, and I will be posting a summary soon, in case someone is interested.
Game 1 I stabilised soon enough to wipe him out when I was at 8 lives. The second game he just went too fast (he used Tribal Flames for 5, auch). Game three was almost his. I had been in chump-blocker mode since turn 3 hoping to make some use of the Wrath of God I was holding from the beginning. At some point, I run out of token generators and he got lethal on board with a Goblin Guide, a Tarmogoyf, 2 Wild Nacatls, and something else I don't remember. I was stuck with a shockland and 2 Ghost Quarters in play so I needed a 4th land that could offer a white source (I needed double white for the wrath). He attacked and the Goblin Guide revealed a Concealed Courtyard that wouldn't get the job done because it would enter tapped. Lucky draw, I get my only basic swamp and proceed with the Ghost Quarter my own land shenanigan to search for a basic plains to cast the wrath. He was devastated, poor guy. From that point, topdeck battle but I was more prepared for that.
I mulled to 6 in every single game of this match. Game one was close because I could race a bit but he was just faster. Game 2, I was able to throw a Stony Silence on turn 2 that literally won me the game, along with fast pressure using Spectral Procession. Hate is as important as racing in this matchup. The third game, I had the stony as well so I could resist the early game. Then I had a Start // Finish in the GY ready to get a Reality Smasher and also had a Runed Halo in hand. He played nothing when he had 4 mana, so there was no Thought-knot Seer in his hand. I had the feeling he could have another Reality Smasher in his hand, but I decided to go with the spot removal. I turned out to be the wrong play and he cast the second fattie. Misplay number 1. At some point, I could have Ghost Quartered his Eldrazi Temple because he was about to get to 7 mana for All is Dust and I just didn't realise. He wiped my whole board and swung for lethal. I feel like I could have won otherwise with the help of a Sorin, Solemn Visitor I was holding.
He won game 1 very nicely after he successfully managed my Bitterblossom, and landed a Blood Moon. Game 2 was SICK. He had everything: Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up for Emmi, Gideon of the Trials beating down with the emblem, Cast Out for my Pithing Needle, Chalice of the Void on 1... Ah!, and I had 3 Intangible Virtue in play, alongside no tokens generators, what numbed his Anger of the Gods, but not the 3 Wrath of Gods he had in hand. Just imagine the scenario... Ah! and I had 6 lives. The last turn before Nahiri could ultimate, I threw a Disenchant at the Cast Out, blocking her again. I had an Extirpate in hand and I wanted to provoke him to throw his wrath on my tokens to use it on them. But the chalice... I finally drew a Start // Finish, pass the turn. Hold for his Gideon to attack and launch the tokens out. Pretend I consider blocking and then I say no blocks. Go to 2. He thinks about it a bit and decides to cast the wrath (because my tokens would have killed his Gideon next turn as they were 4/4's). I decide to throw the Extirpate at the Wrath of God and concede after he declares the chalice trigger... but he doesn't. 6 people staring at the game and I was holding my best poker face. The bluff goes through and I take the ******* game over. I know it is not very clean, but man it felt awesome to have the little crowd clapping after the match. I preventively got rid of the PW first, in case he drew a Cast Out to finally ultimate Nahiri, and made the best use of Sorin as token producer and stabiliser. Game 3 I played 2 Bitterblossoms and used extraction effects in his both boardwipes. I would have definitively won, but there was no time.
No Death's Shadow in this grixis build. It is a rather good matchup. Game 1 he got totally wrecked by Lingering Souls, he was in despair. Game 2 struggled super long as I couldn't find many token generators and he happened to manage the few of them I played good enough. I grinded him out of the game as only bw tokens can do. Intangible Virtue saved my ass from a Izzet Staticaster. Didn't see any SB.
He won game 1 with 2 Blighted Agents and a Glistener Elf buffed by a Distortion Strike. Could respond to that. I usually play against the guy, cos his a friend of mine and I am used to win with almost every hand I keep, so maybe I was too relaxed in the mulligan decision. Games 2 and 3, everything went back to normal and proceeded to bust his ass very hard. Collective Brutality is nuts here.
Literally couldn't keep up with him. He played Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar maindeck. This should be enough to make a point here. He won both games in turn 4 or 5 after I did, practically nothing. A couple removal spells were not enough as he drew more and more gas. I was out in 15 minutes, so it felt kind of bad, but well.
Mainly SUPER happy with the deck. I love playing it and is just so powerful when played well. People start giving credit to the deck and I manage to have some relatively large audiences in many matches. I would love to try Liliana of the Veil and missed at least twice not having the Marsh Flats.
My only concern is Runed Halo in the SB. It feels great against eldrazi tron, which is very problematic, but... I can't get the feeling that it is not as powerful as I thought in the beginning. Many people were playing valakut decks, which is a huge argument for the card. I will keep it in my SB, but, in my head, I am starting to look for replacements. I don't know.
Hope you guys find this helpful and please give me some feedback on the SB tech or whatever decision you would argue. Thanks!!
I am indeed. The utility is huge and I don't see myself running less than 3 GQ nowadays. They are great against many MUs and very rarely you will find troubles using them, at least on my experience.
So I have to ask. Now that the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule is gone, is anyone here considering running Sorin, Lord of Innistrad alongside Sorin, Solemn Visitor, and if so, in what ratios?
So I have to ask. Now that the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule is gone, is anyone here considering running Sorin, Lord of Innistrad alongside Sorin, Solemn Visitor, and if so, in what ratios?
dunno if the 4 mana makes it not worth it, but I definitely want to test this.
Could it replace a couple copies of spectral procession in less white-focused builds? could ease up the strict mana requirement at the cost of some speed.
EDIT: On second thought, the four mana cost really is a downer, even if the mana cost is more leniant. And flying is better than lifelink, altought lifelink is nothing to scoff at. not to mention, Sorin, lord of innistrad can do a lifelink token too each turn with an option for buffing our army at the same mana cost. If only it was instant speed.
With the new Planeswalker rule I think we should be looking at Gideon. 2x Ally, 1x Trials. It allows us to really, really grind. I'd play them alongside 2xSorin and just fight hard. Tokens can do that really, really well. The deck becomes more of a grindfest, controlly deck but that's ok.
See this is a small trap I fell for initially with Start // Finish. I thought Start was bad because we don't need vigilance that is already given by Intangible Virtue. Fact is, we don't always have virtue out. Some game we do without and while it seem redundant to already have vigilance on a token at first, that very redundancy mean our deck will have access to vigilance more often than not.
I'm pretty sure the logic will apply here too, and from the small amount of testing I did with Sorin, lord of innistrad, i can tell you that having three 1/1 lifelink enter the battlefield at the same time have potential to be very good. Sure, sometime Solemn visitor will be there, but those few times where it won't be, you'll be glad to have lifelink. Say, having virtue out instead still grant us three 2/2 tokens with Vigilance + Lifelink.
We could call that "Ability insurance" I guess?
Also, I'm still pretty early in My testing with Sorin, lord of innistrad, but as of right now... Not impressed. Unlike Sorin, Solemn visitor, he rarely threathens the board or put you up with a game-winning board state. I find myself using his +1 more often than anything and he usually dies when I -2 for more damage. Thought the emblem would be easy to pull off twice, but I actually never managed to do so yet. He's better at building a defense, but he's pretty yucky when it comes to going all-out.
In short: even if his token are fantastic chump blocker and can gain life, I feel like Gideon, ally of zendikar is simply better.
Thanks! I'm very slowly writing up a detailed description for the deck. Borrowing from one section that's actually finished on my tappedout page regarding Thoughtseize and Collective Brutality:
To answer your other question, I think that it makes sense to run the full playset of Bitterblossom in a BW Tokens build that favors control over speed. It's the two-drop token producer that keeps on giving, and IMO, one of the strongest cards in the deck.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
Green, though. I think green might be where it's at.
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Gavony Township
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
Artifacts (1)
1 Batterskull
Enchantments (8)
4 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
Sorceries (15)
1 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Spectral Procession
3 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Duress
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fragmentize
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Zealous Persecution
The way I see it, a green splash brings a few obvious advantages to the table, most notably Gavony Township and Abrupt Decay. Gavony is pretty crazy for obvious reasons, and I love having Decay as an uncounterable maindeck answer to random permanents like Spreading Seas, Gideon of the Trials, Goblin Electromancer, Prismatic Omen, or even, in my local meta, Mindcrank (don't ask). But another thing I like about green is just plain old Tarmogoyf.
Anybody playing against tokens has a pretty clear idea of what they need to do with their sideboard: cut all the spot removal and bring in 1) sweepers, especially "one-sided" ones like Anger of the Gods, Pyroclasm, Flaying Tendrils, Echoing Truth, etc., and 2) enchantment hate for our anthems and Bitterblossoms. The last thing they are expecting to see from our side of the table is a big old beefy Tarmogoyf. For this reason I like Goyf just as a fast clock against decks that want to either combo out or go over us, like Tron, Valakut, Ad Nauseum, Storm, etc. I experimented with more traditional answers in a pure BW build, but they seem to get blown up too frequently by the enchantment hate that our opponents are boarding in against us anyway (as is the case with Runed Halo and Rest in Peace), or are just too reactive or unreliable without the aid of cantrips to find them (stuff like Lost Legacy or a 2 Surgical/2 Fulminator package). Goyf is proactive, reliable, and often goes unanswered since our opponents are cutting all their spot removal. Tokens is also pretty well set-up to grow it to enormous size (thanks again Bitterblossom!).
The splash does come at a price, though: more painful mana and no more Ghost Quarter. I'm not entirely sure it's worth the trade, to be honest, but what do you guys think?
I don't have to ask, an LGS owner in my area does it. Bloodchief ascension combo!
I feel that for any tokens build looking to splash green, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar needs to be considered. Not sure if you already checked her out or not but a big way to grow tokens on top of Gavony Township.
BWTokens
GCollected Stompany
BWGUSeance Insanity
URUR Bloo
Brimaz is definitely a pretty solid beater. If I remember correctly he used to be something of a staple in BW tokens lists way back in the day. Maybe I will bring him out and give him a go, or perhaps his buddy Mirran Crusader (great in a meta where hardly anybody plays lightning bolt anymore!).
As for "less-controlling" tokens lists: I think people are mostly just referring to lists that use Raise the Alarm instead of Bitterblossom, less removal/discard, and more threats. Things like Tidehollow Sculler and Blade Splicer used to show up sometimes in these lists, or even Hero of Bladehold. Some people also ran additional anthems in the form of Honor of the Pure, since it synergizes well with your non-token creatures and without Bitterblossom all your tokens are white anyway. It can be pretty brutal to just slam multiple anthems in a row and race your opponent in the air, but you also run the risk of flooding out on them and not drawing enough threats.
These days though it seems like pretty much everybody is playing Bitterblossom. It's just crazy good!
I haven't played with Nissa before, but I've seen her in action and definitely agree that she is crazy good. To run her you have to go a bit deeper into green than I am willing to though, since GG on t3 is a tough ask if you're just splashing.
Here's a top 16 list from GP Los Angeles last year that uses her though: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12485&d=271893&f=MO
He goes pretty deep, with mana dorks and everything. I have to imagine that not many people were expecting to play against that kind of craziness ;o
Edit: I'd definitely say this list is a more aggressive, less controlling build. He's totally forgone discard spells and is entirely focused on just beating down with a hoard of giant tokens.
Roughly Speaking:
22 Land. 23 if it includes one Windbrisk Heights, which is better in a build like this than it is in a control build because of how many creature buffs it can flash in. Also good for cheating in a Gideon.
4x Raise the Alarm
4x Spectral Procession
4x Lingering Souls
2x Secure the Wastes
4x Intangible Virtue
2-3x Honor of the Pure
2x Zealous Persecution
6x Disruption (max)
6x Removal (max)
3-4x Sorin + Gideon
I have even seen one build that ran 2x Simian Spirit Guide lol
Rapidly creating a bunch of big tokens and aggressively beating down the opponent is great and all, but B/W tokens has access to the best removal and disruption in the format, which happens to pair really well with a paced, and sometimes conservative (given that sweepers are a thing) flying token strategy.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
I used to run Windbrisk Heights when I first got into tokens and to be honest I hate that card. It never seemed to do anything worthwhile. Sure you can cheat a Gideon or spectral procession but in my experience you end up with nothing good like RTA or hand disruption. I removed it months ago and haven't missed it once.
After game 1 your opponent will more then likely sideboard out targeted removal like Path or Push for sweepers like Flaying Tendrils, Pyroclasm, or Anger of the Gods then if you were to bring in Brimaz or Hero from the sideboard you are gaining an advantage again by negating the effectiveness of their cards. Is this a fool proof strategy? No, we can't guarantee we find Brimaz and we can't guarantee our opponents will board out all of their spot removal. In fact some opponents will leave it in because they don't have anything better or just to deal with our potential Gideon attacks but its better then turning on our opponents mainboard removal options.
I added 2 runed halo to my sideboard in anticipation of an increase in titan/shapeshift decks. Ran tokens at Thursday night modern last night beating Mardu nahiri and RW prison, both pretty handily. Lost to burn and titanshift. I feel like the valakut matches I need to just mulligan hard for the runed halo because it feels pretty impossible otherwise. I boarded in 2x halo, 2x surgical (I run 3x ghost quarter) and 2x Auriok champion. Game 1 I kept an aggressive curve that would otherwise be great but he hit me for 18 (my exact life total) when I had lethal on board. Game 2 I kept a 6 with 2x Thoughtseize, collective brutality and ghost quarter thinking I can try to keep him from getting his payoff cards. I strip him of a titan and 2x scapeshift. Naturally he tops a scapeshift right when he needs it. I had ghost quarter up and after losing I see I was going to draw a surgical next turn.
Should I be prioritizing keeping my life above 18? Is it better to try to keep pressure and hope they stumble
On their ramp? Is hand disruption just not worth it?
I think these valakut decks are the most infuriating decks in modern and I want to beat them reliably so people stop playing them.
Honestly it sounds like you just got extremely unlucky
In my experience against decks like valakut (and also tron) disruption is of course very important, but putting them on a fast clock is super important as well. We can grind a titanshift player down to topdeck mode, rip up their hand, surgical their titans, but if the game drags on long enough they will still beat us simply by playing lands. Tron's the same way. It's critical to threaten their life total as soon as possible, so that our disruption meets a payoff in the end. Since racing them with a traditional tokens setup usually means flooding the board and overextending into sweepers, I like to have some kind of non-token beatstick in the sideboard for matchups like that. Tarmogoyf is my weapon of choice (I splash green for it), especially against decks like titanshift that have Anger of the Gods.
Also Runed Halo is pretty solid, but Valakut has a tendency to board in enchantment hate (Nature's Claim, Reclamation Sage, Seal of Primordium etc.) against us anyway since they see Bitterblossom and Intangible Virtue in g1. Sometimes the halo becomes collateral damage
I don't like titanshift either 'cause losing to it makes me feel puny and helpless. I hope you beat them next time!
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
2-1 Against 5C Aggro
Game 1 I stabilised soon enough to wipe him out when I was at 8 lives. The second game he just went too fast (he used Tribal Flames for 5, auch). Game three was almost his. I had been in chump-blocker mode since turn 3 hoping to make some use of the Wrath of God I was holding from the beginning. At some point, I run out of token generators and he got lethal on board with a Goblin Guide, a Tarmogoyf, 2 Wild Nacatls, and something else I don't remember. I was stuck with a shockland and 2 Ghost Quarters in play so I needed a 4th land that could offer a white source (I needed double white for the wrath). He attacked and the Goblin Guide revealed a Concealed Courtyard that wouldn't get the job done because it would enter tapped. Lucky draw, I get my only basic swamp and proceed with the Ghost Quarter my own land shenanigan to search for a basic plains to cast the wrath. He was devastated, poor guy. From that point, topdeck battle but I was more prepared for that.
In: 2 Wrath of God, 2 Runed Halo.
Out: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Duress, 1 Bitterblossom.
1-2 Against Eldrazi tron
I mulled to 6 in every single game of this match. Game one was close because I could race a bit but he was just faster. Game 2, I was able to throw a Stony Silence on turn 2 that literally won me the game, along with fast pressure using Spectral Procession. Hate is as important as racing in this matchup. The third game, I had the stony as well so I could resist the early game. Then I had a Start // Finish in the GY ready to get a Reality Smasher and also had a Runed Halo in hand. He played nothing when he had 4 mana, so there was no Thought-knot Seer in his hand. I had the feeling he could have another Reality Smasher in his hand, but I decided to go with the spot removal. I turned out to be the wrong play and he cast the second fattie. Misplay number 1. At some point, I could have Ghost Quartered his Eldrazi Temple because he was about to get to 7 mana for All is Dust and I just didn't realise. He wiped my whole board and swung for lethal. I feel like I could have won otherwise with the help of a Sorin, Solemn Visitor I was holding.
In: 2 Wrath of God, 2 Runed Halo, 2 Pithing Needle, 3 Stony Silence.
Out: 4 Inquisition of Kozilek, 2 Collective Brutality, 3 Fatal Push.
1-1-1 Against RW Prison
He won game 1 very nicely after he successfully managed my Bitterblossom, and landed a Blood Moon. Game 2 was SICK. He had everything: Nahiri, the Harbinger ticking up for Emmi, Gideon of the Trials beating down with the emblem, Cast Out for my Pithing Needle, Chalice of the Void on 1... Ah!, and I had 3 Intangible Virtue in play, alongside no tokens generators, what numbed his Anger of the Gods, but not the 3 Wrath of Gods he had in hand. Just imagine the scenario... Ah! and I had 6 lives. The last turn before Nahiri could ultimate, I threw a Disenchant at the Cast Out, blocking her again. I had an Extirpate in hand and I wanted to provoke him to throw his wrath on my tokens to use it on them. But the chalice... I finally drew a Start // Finish, pass the turn. Hold for his Gideon to attack and launch the tokens out. Pretend I consider blocking and then I say no blocks. Go to 2. He thinks about it a bit and decides to cast the wrath (because my tokens would have killed his Gideon next turn as they were 4/4's). I decide to throw the Extirpate at the Wrath of God and concede after he declares the chalice trigger... but he doesn't. 6 people staring at the game and I was holding my best poker face. The bluff goes through and I take the ******* game over. I know it is not very clean, but man it felt awesome to have the little crowd clapping after the match. I preventively got rid of the PW first, in case he drew a Cast Out to finally ultimate Nahiri, and made the best use of Sorin as token producer and stabiliser. Game 3 I played 2 Bitterblossoms and used extraction effects in his both boardwipes. I would have definitively won, but there was no time.
In: 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Disenchant, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Extirpate.
Out: 3 Fatal Push, 2 Collective Brutality, 1 Path to Exile.
2-0 Against Grixis Control
No Death's Shadow in this grixis build. It is a rather good matchup. Game 1 he got totally wrecked by Lingering Souls, he was in despair. Game 2 struggled super long as I couldn't find many token generators and he happened to manage the few of them I played good enough. I grinded him out of the game as only bw tokens can do. Intangible Virtue saved my ass from a Izzet Staticaster. Didn't see any SB.
In: 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Extirpate.
Out: 4 Path to Exile.
2-0 Against Goryo's Reanimator
He started with a Faithless Looting pitching Borborygmos Enraged and Griselbrand and I was like... yeah, sure. Topdecked an Inquisition of Kozilek and took his Goryo's Vengeance. Whatta gonna do abou't? Game 2, was similar but this time, I followed the hand disruption with Rest in Peace. He told me afterwards that he also played Through the Breach but never saw one. He ended up with 4 demons in hand.
In: 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Extirpate.
Out: 3 Fatal Push, 1 Bitterblossom.
2-1 Against Infect
He won game 1 with 2 Blighted Agents and a Glistener Elf buffed by a Distortion Strike. Could respond to that. I usually play against the guy, cos his a friend of mine and I am used to win with almost every hand I keep, so maybe I was too relaxed in the mulligan decision. Games 2 and 3, everything went back to normal and proceeded to bust his ass very hard. Collective Brutality is nuts here.
In: 2 Runed Halo, 2 Wrath of God.
Out: 3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor, 1 Intangible Virtue.
0-2 Against 4C Humans
Literally couldn't keep up with him. He played Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar maindeck. This should be enough to make a point here. He won both games in turn 4 or 5 after I did, practically nothing. A couple removal spells were not enough as he drew more and more gas. I was out in 15 minutes, so it felt kind of bad, but well.
In: 2 Runed Halo, 2 Wrath of God.
Out: 2 Thoughtseize/c], 1 Duress, 1 Bitterblossom.
Mainly SUPER happy with the deck. I love playing it and is just so powerful when played well. People start giving credit to the deck and I manage to have some relatively large audiences in many matches. I would love to try Liliana of the Veil and missed at least twice not having the Marsh Flats.
My only concern is Runed Halo in the SB. It feels great against eldrazi tron, which is very problematic, but... I can't get the feeling that it is not as powerful as I thought in the beginning. Many people were playing valakut decks, which is a huge argument for the card. I will keep it in my SB, but, in my head, I am starting to look for replacements. I don't know.
Hope you guys find this helpful and please give me some feedback on the SB tech or whatever decision you would argue. Thanks!!
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
Hamana! three lifelink token is pretty good.
dunno if the 4 mana makes it not worth it, but I definitely want to test this.
Could it replace a couple copies of spectral procession in less white-focused builds? could ease up the strict mana requirement at the cost of some speed.
EDIT: On second thought, the four mana cost really is a downer, even if the mana cost is more leniant. And flying is better than lifelink, altought lifelink is nothing to scoff at. not to mention, Sorin, lord of innistrad can do a lifelink token too each turn with an option for buffing our army at the same mana cost. If only it was instant speed.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
I'm pretty sure the logic will apply here too, and from the small amount of testing I did with Sorin, lord of innistrad, i can tell you that having three 1/1 lifelink enter the battlefield at the same time have potential to be very good. Sure, sometime Solemn visitor will be there, but those few times where it won't be, you'll be glad to have lifelink. Say, having virtue out instead still grant us three 2/2 tokens with Vigilance + Lifelink.
We could call that "Ability insurance" I guess?
Also, I'm still pretty early in My testing with Sorin, lord of innistrad, but as of right now... Not impressed. Unlike Sorin, Solemn visitor, he rarely threathens the board or put you up with a game-winning board state. I find myself using his +1 more often than anything and he usually dies when I -2 for more damage. Thought the emblem would be easy to pull off twice, but I actually never managed to do so yet. He's better at building a defense, but he's pretty yucky when it comes to going all-out.
In short: even if his token are fantastic chump blocker and can gain life, I feel like Gideon, ally of zendikar is simply better.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)