The issue isn't just Blood Moon which can make the WW for Growth hard. But also Spreading Seas, and though not affecting color production the worse artifact/enchantment to face by far is Ensnaring Bridge. My card of preference is actually Fragmentize.
I can say from personal experience that I like Disenchant way more than Fragmentize for two reason: The instant speed and the fact that at two mana Chalice of the void rarely blocks it. It's minor, but it's still two kinda relevant downsides for Frag. However, not being able to hit enchantment/artifact with cost 5 or more was never relevant in my time running it and it's technically the most efficient Ench/art hate we have access to. Still, I prefer running Disenchant and even Sundering Growth over it.
Also you are correct, the builds running Bitterblossom alongside Lingering Souls are much better at simply shrugging off sweepers and rebuilding after.
I can definitely attest to that. I've been running 4 of both for a very long time, I tried a couple time to reduce the number of Bitterblossom for a split with raise the alarm and it never *clicked* with me.
The issue isn't just Blood Moon which can make the WW for Growth hard. But also Spreading Seas, and though not affecting color production the worse artifact/enchantment to face by far is Ensnaring Bridge. My card of preference is actually Fragmentize.
I can say from personal experience that I like Disenchant way more than Fragmentize for two reason: The instant speed and the fact that at two mana Chalice of the void rarely blocks it. It's minor, but it's still two kinda relevant downsides for Frag. However, not being able to hit enchantment/artifact with cost 5 or more was never relevant in my time running it and it's technically the most efficient Ench/art hate we have access to. Still, I prefer running Disenchant and even Sundering Growth over it.
Personally, I have never had trouble hitting the WW needed for Sundering Growth, and the fact that it creates another token, which situationally can be pretty valuable for our tempo, and gets past Chalice on 1 (or 3-- I have seen DraziTron do that before, which is probably the most crippling "setting" for Chalice against out decks) seems to provide the most outright "value" of the enchantment hate we can run. Fragmentize is obviously very efficient, and is probably the best tool for dealing with problems like Spreading Seas while keeping enough mana open to deal with Merfolk before that deck gets out of control. I suppose Disenchant kind of falls between the two, but they are definitely all valid options.
Also you are correct, the builds running Bitterblossom alongside Lingering Souls are much better at simply shrugging off sweepers and rebuilding after.
I can definitely attest to that. I've been running 4 of both for a very long time, I tried a couple time to reduce the number of Bitterblossom for a split with raise the alarm and it never *clicked* with me.
Seconded. Not only is my meta full of sweepers, but half of the decks I play against basically consider Bitterblossom to be the bane of their existence. While it's not lost on anyone that Raise the Alarm is faster and can in some cases be preferable, the type of build that people like MisterMuffin21, DHamlin, myself, and many other people on this board run is so far to the "Control" end of the spectrum for BW Tokens that Raise the Alarm feels very much out of place with the rest of our strategy.
I could swap out the Murderous Cut for another Fatal Push, but as stated before, I don´t feel entirely confident in those Pushes without proper support from Fetchlands.
If you're looking for cheap/good removal, Might I suggest Slaughter pact and Dismember. They are both quite fantastic. Dismember can be cast for one generic mana if you're willing to pay the life and most modern relevant creature, even indestructible ones, fall to it. As for Slaughter pact, not being able to destroy black creature is a bit of a downer, but being able to cast it while being tapped out can lead to our opponent thinking we have nothing then BLAM!
Both are pretty cheap. Slaughter pact is 7$ and Dismember 3$. They where my removal package before Fatal push came in. I still run Slaughter pact from time to time.
I could swap out the Murderous Cut for another Fatal Push, but as stated before, I don´t feel entirely confident in those Pushes without proper support from Fetchlands.
If you're looking for cheap/good removal, Might I suggest Slaughter pact and Dismember. They are both quite fantastic. Dismember can be cast for one generic mana if you're willing to pay the life and most modern relevant creature, even indestructible ones, fall to it. As for Slaughter pact, not being able to destroy black creature is a bit of a downer, but being able to cast it while being tapped out can lead to our opponent thinking we have nothing then BLAM!
Both are pretty cheap. Slaughter pact is 7$ and Dismember 3$. They where my removal package before Fatal push came in. I still run Slaughter pact from time to time.
I actually already have Dismember. I could replace it without much hassle. (I have 2)
However one of my first questions on this forum was about whether I should keep Fatal Push or if I should replace it with Dismember because I don´t have any Fetchlands currently.
The advice I got was that even without Fetches Fatal Push is still a better card, as it hit most things anyway and I still have Path to Exile for the bigger stuff.
I have a whole playset of Pushes, (preorderd them for cheap), so I could also replace the Murderous Cut with a Fatal Push without any cost.
According to the advice I´ve gotten so far that would be the thing to do. What are your thoughts on this?
</blockquote>
Fatal Push is good even without triggering revolt. Look at how many 4 cmc creatures there are in Modern: maybe 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, 2 Siege Rhino, etc. My point is there are not that many.
The only reason you should go down to 3 Fatal Push is to play 1 Dismember. This is due to the popularity of the Delve creatures, Reality Smasher, Drowner of Hope, etc. Now let's compare it with Slaughter Pact and Murderous Cut. Dismember being playable the first two turns + for 1-2 mana is a huge advantage; it kills black creatures unlike Slaughter Pact (Death Shadow + Delve creatures); Murderous Cut is very bad because we want cards like Rest in Peace against Grixis Control. Sometimes the opponent even brings Relic of Progenitus against us so that completely neuters Murderous Cut.
4 Path + 3 Push + 1 Dismember. That's all you need folks.
I could swap out the Murderous Cut for another Fatal Push, but as stated before, I don´t feel entirely confident in those Pushes without proper support from Fetchlands.
If you're looking for cheap/good removal, Might I suggest Slaughter pact and Dismember. They are both quite fantastic. Dismember can be cast for one generic mana if you're willing to pay the life and most modern relevant creature, even indestructible ones, fall to it. As for Slaughter pact, not being able to destroy black creature is a bit of a downer, but being able to cast it while being tapped out can lead to our opponent thinking we have nothing then BLAM!
Both are pretty cheap. Slaughter pact is 7$ and Dismember 3$. They where my removal package before Fatal push came in. I still run Slaughter pact from time to time.
I actually already have Dismember. I could replace it without much hassle. (I have 2)
However one of my first questions on this forum was about whether I should keep Fatal Push or if I should replace it with Dismember because I don´t have any Fetchlands currently.
The advice I got was that even without Fetches Fatal Push is still a better card, as it hit most things anyway and I still have Path to Exile for the bigger stuff.
I have a whole playset of Pushes, (preorderd them for cheap), so I could also replace the Murderous Cut with a Fatal Push without any cost.
According to the advice I´ve gotten so far that would be the thing to do. What are your thoughts on this?
</blockquote>
Fatal Push is good even without triggering revolt. Look at how many 4 cmc creatures there are in Modern: maybe 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, 2 Siege Rhino, etc. My point is there are not that many.
The only reason you should go down to 3 Fatal Push is to play 1 Dismember. This is due to the popularity of the Delve creatures, Reality Smasher, Drowner of Hope, etc. Now let's compare it with Slaughter Pact and Murderous Cut. Dismember being playable the first two turns + for 1-2 mana is a huge advantage; it kills black creatures unlike Slaughter Pact (Death Shadow + Delve creatures); Murderous Cut is very bad because we want cards like Rest in Peace against Grixis Control. Sometimes the opponent even brings Relic of Progenitus against us so that completely neuters Murderous Cut.
4 Path + 3 Push + 1 Dismember. That's all you need folks.
Jongsl5 is absolutely correct. I personally don't run Cut/Dismember main, just 4 Path and 4 Push. I've got 1x Cut side and I've got 2x Start//Finish main which can fill in as unconditional removal a pinch.
I cannot agree more with all this spot-removal talk. Removal package should look something like this:
4x Path to exile: This is THE best removal spell in modern and one of the biggest perk of playing white. Run four. always.
2-4x Fatal push: At its best with fetches/an easy way to trigger revolt. Still very good otherwise. Being able to kill Tarmogoyf and manlands along with 70/80% of modern relevant creatures for one mana is a pretty sweet deal. Run at least two.
0-2x Dismember: The budget way to cope with removal. I'm still amazed that this card is only 3$ each seeing has it can be played in any color. Can deal with most creatures Fatal push can in addition to deal with delve creatures. Note that it can get hard on life points. Run one or two if you run it at all.
0-1x Slaughter pact: Surprise factor is what makes the card good. your opponent will often make more play if he see you tapped out, and that's where the card shines. It however come with a mana cost of three and the inability to hit black creatures. If you want to try it, I would recommend never running more than one copy, unless you want to try something funny with gideon of the trials, but I'm not sure if he is competitively viable, especially in our deck.
0-1x Murderous Cut: Very good removal that uses our graveyard as a ressouce and can kill any creature. It can rarely be casted before turn 3, but often can be casted for 1-2 mana. I've seen some lists play two, but I think one is enough as two become a bit hard to cast reliably at low mana. We don't want to exile our Lingering souls and Start // finish with that.
Pick 6 to 8 cards from above and you're good to go. I'd also like to point out that Start // Finish and Collective brutality also exist, but I don't think I've played enough with them to really put an honest opinion on those yet.
I actually already have Dismember. I could replace it without much hassle. (I have 2)
However one of my first questions on this forum was about whether I should keep Fatal Push or if I should replace it with Dismember because I don´t have any Fetchlands currently.
The advice I got was that even without Fetches Fatal Push is still a better card, as it hit most things anyway and I still have Path to Exile for the bigger stuff.
I have a whole playset of Pushes, (preorderd them for cheap), so I could also replace the Murderous Cut with a Fatal Push without any cost.
According to the advice I´ve gotten so far that would be the thing to do. What are your thoughts on this?
Even without fetches, fatal push is soooo good and definitely worth a spot in our deck. Most people seem to like to play three of it.
I personally run 4 path to exiles and 4 fatal push. Before push, I was running 2 Dismember, 1 Murderous cut and 1 Slaughter pact. I could still run a dismember like jongsl5 recommend, but I personally decided to run a playset of both Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize in the main, and my life total would break if I were to run dismember in addition to that. But if you don't run either of those, or run fewer than a playset of each, I could definitely second his mention to run one.
I run 4 Pushes and 4 paths. They're the best removal cards in modern and I don't really see the point in playing anything else.
I definitely think that sundering growth is our best SB card for artifact/enchantment removal. We need triple white turn 3 anyway, and it's a 2-4-1.
I switched to a build with 4 auriok champion and 4 bitterblossoms. It's so good against aggro, midrange, and control, but is slow against combo and ramp, but in my SB I have cards like Aven Mindcensor, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, and duress.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I run 4 Pushes and 4 paths. They're the best removal cards in modern and I don't really see the point in playing anything else.
a single copy of Dismember can take care of bigger creature Fatal push can't like delve creatures for example. Same goes for Murderous cut, but even then we're talking about a scenario where you still run four path and three pushes alongside one or two other removals.
I definitely think that sundering growth is our best SB card for artifact/enchantment removal. We need triple white turn 3 anyway, and it's a 2-4-1.
It's the strongest, not the best. Some deck like Merfolk and blue moon can make activating this pretty difficult, which is why some like to run disenchant over Sundering growth since it's less heavy on the mana requirement (I personally run a 2/1 split). Same thing can be said about Spectral procession; I see more and more build cutting one or two Spectral procession to run a few less mana-restricting options like Timely reinforcements, Secure the wastes and recently Start // finish. It's definitely the strongest turn 3 token producer we have, but with a few land that can't produce white (Swamps, Vault of the archangel, Ghost quarter) it can be stuck in hand sometime.
I know casting a procession for WW2 is not the end of the world, but it's still a bit of a downer when it doesn't happen on turn 3.
I switched to a build with 4 auriok champion and 4 bitterblossoms. It's so good against aggro, midrange, and control, but is slow against combo and ramp, but in my SB I have cards like Aven Mindcensor, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, and duress.
Auriok Champion is fantastic against burn, death shadow and most aggro decks out there and it's also a nice combo with Bitterblossom. I used to play her too when my meta was more aggresive. Now a lot of people have switched to combo/control decks so I gave her a vacantion and upped my discard game. There's still some aggro players around, but gosh I swear I did not have two cheerios as well as two ad nauseum players in my meta two months ago.
I can't really attest to Aven Mindcensor's power. Few times I tried it, it wasn't exceptional: it punishes fetching pretty well, but not a lot of searching other than that occur in modern. Like I can think of Chord of calling and it doesn't even work against Spoils of the vault against ad nauseam. If I was to kill combo, I'd just run Lost legacy. I can definitely get behind Duress though, card is great and it wins us lots of time against most combo deck.
Also,Kambal, consul of allocation? Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but doesn't he just eat a removal in the face? I don't really see a deck other than storm being hurt by that since control is gonna get rid of it ASAP. Gonna be honest though, cheerio does not want that to hit the battlefield ever
I could definitely see an argument for running Disenchant for Sundering Growths. The 1 token hasn't been a big deal. Sure a lot of times when I cast Disenchant I wish I had a Growth instead but it's only slightly more optimal. Enchant getting around Blood Moon more easily and just allowing for a more convenience mana cost can be a deal breaker.
Fatal Push is what gave the Tokens the edge it needed. Before, you were vulnerable not only to the combo decks but also to a lot of the aggro decks. But time has been kind to tokens as we have been rewarded with cards like Shambling Vents and Sorin, the Solemn Visitor. I actually used to support a Mardu version of this deck because this deck desperately wanted a turn 1 removal spell. Oh how Lightning Bolt has fallen (although still better than Push in Legacy). Never did I imagine a card as powerful as Fatal Push would be printed; however, you can check out the hilarious doubts people had in previous pages. I think this deck is easily at least Tier 1.5 in power level.
Now I would say the one thing that's really stopping this deck is some of the sideboard hate cards. Things like Ensnaring Bridge and Engineered Explosives are rough. Technically, all the other midrange decks get super neutered by Rest in Peace, but few decks can actually afford to play Rest in Peace like we can; hence, they're still alive in the meta. I think in theory, Pithing Needle is just great in stopping Explosives and Liliana of the Last Hope. It's also one of the best cards against Tron, due to its flexibility. But I haven't played the deck in a while so I wouldn't know. Maybe it's good against the new Company deck as well? You guys tell me.
Sure. There are 2 storm players at my LGS, which is another reason why I play Kambal. I also want cards to bring in against burn when I Side out bitterblossom and thoughtseize. This is my list:
Aven Mindcensor is good against Scapeshift, Nahiri, gifts ungiven, traverse the ulvenwald, expedition map, and fetches. I like to Side it in game 2 because people often Side out their removal against me.
Fetid Heath is an awesome card. If I have a swamp on the battlefield I can still play an auriok champion turn 2 and spectral procession on turn 3. Very rarely do I have to mulligan because of it.
I agree Sorin is awesome, but as a legendary we can only have 1 on the battlefield.
I'm totally open to running more planeswalkers, replacing fetid Heath with other lands, and runnning something else over mindcensor, but this list has been working really well for me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Affinity 2-0
It was fairly easy to manage. Thank God I am running 3 Fatal Pushes again. Landed Bitterblossom in each game and they literally won me the game, the card is nuts. Game 2 was the same. I saw none of my SB. After that, I played like 3-4 more games against the guy, for fun (he is a really good player) and won all of them but 1.
UB Tezzerator 1-1-1
Game 1 he assembled the combo and one just can't keep up with so many tokens. Game 2 I saw Stony Silence and kept a Disenchant in hand to deal with his Ensnaring Bridge for the last hit. The third game I went Inquisition of Kozilek for the Thopter Foundry into Surgical Extraction. Also considered saving this effect for the Ensnaring Bridge, because I had a Disenchant in hand, which I ended playing very nicely on his Wurmcoil Engine (that got me w/o removal after board) in response to a Ratchet Bomb activation that ended up killing his tokens as well. I believe he missed the kill in his penultimate turn when he could have ult Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and played another one. Tied, nice games.
Death's Shadow Jund 2-0
Before starting the match the guy was bragging about how he had won every game of every match, so it was especially sweet to crush him 2-0. The match is unfairly favourable to us. Game 1 I had a nice hand, but game 2 I kept a 5 lander and was still able to pull the win of a resolved Lingering Souls. Luckily, he never saw a Temur battle rage.
I had real fun and was very happy with the results and the design of the deck. I won't be changing it anymore until I get the playset of Marsh Flats and Liliana of the Veil that I will play for a Duress or a Spectral Procession. 3 Bitterblossoms is just crazy powerful in our deck and I could see arguments for the 4th but I will stick to 3 now. Also, agreed with comments on Fatal Push. We needed something like that. I could also see the 4th one, but I feel 3 is okay with 2 Collective Brutality.
If you have any feedback on the SB tech or the deck, please do so!! Thanks!!
Last Friday I was able to pull a nice 3-0-1 in my LGS. Played very well and focused and the deck responded nicely too.
I had real fun and was very happy with the results and the design of the deck. I won't be changing it anymore until I get the playset of Marsh Flats and Liliana of the Veil that I will play for a Duress or a Spectral Procession. 3 Bitterblossoms is just crazy powerful in our deck and I could see arguments for the 4th but I will stick to 3 now. Also, agreed with comments on Fatal Push. We needed something like that. I could also see the 4th one, but I feel 3 is okay with 2 Collective Brutality.
If you have any feedback on the SB tech or the deck, please do so!! Thanks!!
Liliana of the Veil isn't a bad idea. I'm personally including two in my new build, but your priority should absolutely be getting those Marsh Flats. It's hard to overstate the importance of a proper land base.
The Duress was meant to be a third [/c]Thoughtseize[/c] but I didn't have it so I used the former. It is technically only better against burn, but yeah. And about the number of disruptions, I'm very happy with the current number. Even if you drew too many, you could make profit of them with collective brutality. I could see cutting the Duress for a Liliana of the veil, though.
And yeah, totally right. They are in my shopping cart since long ago, just waiting to get the sources for them.
Affinity 2-0
It was fairly easy to manage. Thank God I am running 3 Fatal Pushes again. Landed Bitterblossom in each game and they literally won me the game, the card is nuts. Game 2 was the same. I saw none of my SB. After that, I played like 3-4 more games against the guy, for fun (he is a really good player) and won all of them but 1.
UB Tezzerator 1-1-1
Game 1 he assembled the combo and one just can't keep up with so many tokens. Game 2 I saw Stony Silence and kept a Disenchant in hand to deal with his Ensnaring Bridge for the last hit. The third game I went Inquisition of Kozilek for the Thopter Foundry into Surgical Extraction. Also considered saving this effect for the Ensnaring Bridge, because I had a Disenchant in hand, which I ended playing very nicely on his Wurmcoil Engine (that got me w/o removal after board) in response to a Ratchet Bomb activation that ended up killing his tokens as well. I believe he missed the kill in his penultimate turn when he could have ult Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and played another one. Tied, nice games.
Death's Shadow Jund 2-0
Before starting the match the guy was bragging about how he had won every game of every match, so it was especially sweet to crush him 2-0. The match is unfairly favourable to us. Game 1 I had a nice hand, but game 2 I kept a 5 lander and was still able to pull the win of a resolved Lingering Souls. Luckily, he never saw a Temur battle rage.
I had real fun and was very happy with the results and the design of the deck. I won't be changing it anymore until I get the playset of Marsh Flats and Liliana of the Veil that I will play for a Duress or a Spectral Procession. 3 Bitterblossoms is just crazy powerful in our deck and I could see arguments for the 4th but I will stick to 3 now. Also, agreed with comments on Fatal Push. We needed something like that. I could also see the 4th one, but I feel 3 is okay with 2 Collective Brutality.
If you have any feedback on the SB tech or the deck, please do so!! Thanks!!
Why are you running wrath of god over dusk // dawn? Do you think that it's better to secure the board wipe against them or do you think creatures would slip under it to easily? I quite like you're list I run something quite similar although a little lighter on the discard in the mainboard. Also how has start // finish been? I've considered trying 1 of for testing I believe I'm running a 4th bitterblossom and a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar over them. Congrats on the finish!
Mainly because of elves, toolbox decks, and the mirror. A friend of mine runs a kiki-chord list and plays them there precisely because the don't reach his board. For this reason, it would be a dead card in my sb if I play against him, while the wrath is just brutal. For us, recovering from a swipe is much easier, and even more if we see that coming (because we cast it). Just chumpblock and stabilize, and restart the game from there.
Start // Finish is awesome. Fixed 2-of in my deck by now. Don't think more than 2 are good enough, though. It is also great as an extra removal spell that can answer things were Fatal Push is not enough or for those Grave Titan that some ad nauseam players play after we side all our removal out in game 2.
Gideon is something I always wanted to try but never had the chance, and now... I wouldn't know what to take out from my list. Probably a Spectral Procession. How do you find him? Pros and cons of gids?
I can definitely attest to that. I've been running 4 of both for a very long time, I tried a couple time to reduce the number of Bitterblossom for a split with raise the alarm and it never *clicked* with me.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
Personally, I have never had trouble hitting the WW needed for Sundering Growth, and the fact that it creates another token, which situationally can be pretty valuable for our tempo, and gets past Chalice on 1 (or 3-- I have seen DraziTron do that before, which is probably the most crippling "setting" for Chalice against out decks) seems to provide the most outright "value" of the enchantment hate we can run. Fragmentize is obviously very efficient, and is probably the best tool for dealing with problems like Spreading Seas while keeping enough mana open to deal with Merfolk before that deck gets out of control. I suppose Disenchant kind of falls between the two, but they are definitely all valid options.
Seconded. Not only is my meta full of sweepers, but half of the decks I play against basically consider Bitterblossom to be the bane of their existence. While it's not lost on anyone that Raise the Alarm is faster and can in some cases be preferable, the type of build that people like MisterMuffin21, DHamlin, myself, and many other people on this board run is so far to the "Control" end of the spectrum for BW Tokens that Raise the Alarm feels very much out of place with the rest of our strategy.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
1-2 vs Bant Eldrazi
2-0 vs Abzan Midrange
2-1 vs Esper Shadow
2-0 vs Grixis Shadow
Deck worked great, I'm sticking with this build for the IQ I'm playing in on Saturday and likely for the $1k I'm gonna play in on the 5th.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Both are pretty cheap. Slaughter pact is 7$ and Dismember 3$. They where my removal package before Fatal push came in. I still run Slaughter pact from time to time.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
Fatal Push is good even without triggering revolt. Look at how many 4 cmc creatures there are in Modern: maybe 4 Thought-Knot Seer, 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, 2 Siege Rhino, etc. My point is there are not that many.
The only reason you should go down to 3 Fatal Push is to play 1 Dismember. This is due to the popularity of the Delve creatures, Reality Smasher, Drowner of Hope, etc. Now let's compare it with Slaughter Pact and Murderous Cut. Dismember being playable the first two turns + for 1-2 mana is a huge advantage; it kills black creatures unlike Slaughter Pact (Death Shadow + Delve creatures); Murderous Cut is very bad because we want cards like Rest in Peace against Grixis Control. Sometimes the opponent even brings Relic of Progenitus against us so that completely neuters Murderous Cut.
4 Path + 3 Push + 1 Dismember. That's all you need folks.
Jongsl5 is absolutely correct. I personally don't run Cut/Dismember main, just 4 Path and 4 Push. I've got 1x Cut side and I've got 2x Start//Finish main which can fill in as unconditional removal a pinch.
4x Path to exile: This is THE best removal spell in modern and one of the biggest perk of playing white. Run four. always.
2-4x Fatal push: At its best with fetches/an easy way to trigger revolt. Still very good otherwise. Being able to kill Tarmogoyf and manlands along with 70/80% of modern relevant creatures for one mana is a pretty sweet deal. Run at least two.
0-2x Dismember: The budget way to cope with removal. I'm still amazed that this card is only 3$ each seeing has it can be played in any color. Can deal with most creatures Fatal push can in addition to deal with delve creatures. Note that it can get hard on life points. Run one or two if you run it at all.
0-1x Slaughter pact: Surprise factor is what makes the card good. your opponent will often make more play if he see you tapped out, and that's where the card shines. It however come with a mana cost of three and the inability to hit black creatures. If you want to try it, I would recommend never running more than one copy, unless you want to try something funny with gideon of the trials, but I'm not sure if he is competitively viable, especially in our deck.
0-1x Murderous Cut: Very good removal that uses our graveyard as a ressouce and can kill any creature. It can rarely be casted before turn 3, but often can be casted for 1-2 mana. I've seen some lists play two, but I think one is enough as two become a bit hard to cast reliably at low mana. We don't want to exile our Lingering souls and Start // finish with that.
Pick 6 to 8 cards from above and you're good to go. I'd also like to point out that Start // Finish and Collective brutality also exist, but I don't think I've played enough with them to really put an honest opinion on those yet.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
I personally run 4 path to exiles and 4 fatal push. Before push, I was running 2 Dismember, 1 Murderous cut and 1 Slaughter pact. I could still run a dismember like jongsl5 recommend, but I personally decided to run a playset of both Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize in the main, and my life total would break if I were to run dismember in addition to that. But if you don't run either of those, or run fewer than a playset of each, I could definitely second his mention to run one.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
I definitely think that sundering growth is our best SB card for artifact/enchantment removal. We need triple white turn 3 anyway, and it's a 2-4-1.
I switched to a build with 4 auriok champion and 4 bitterblossoms. It's so good against aggro, midrange, and control, but is slow against combo and ramp, but in my SB I have cards like Aven Mindcensor, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, and duress.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I know casting a procession for WW2 is not the end of the world, but it's still a bit of a downer when it doesn't happen on turn 3.Auriok Champion is fantastic against burn, death shadow and most aggro decks out there and it's also a nice combo with Bitterblossom. I used to play her too when my meta was more aggresive. Now a lot of people have switched to combo/control decks so I gave her a vacantion and upped my discard game. There's still some aggro players around, but gosh I swear I did not have two cheerios as well as two ad nauseum players in my meta two months ago.
I can't really attest to Aven Mindcensor's power. Few times I tried it, it wasn't exceptional: it punishes fetching pretty well, but not a lot of searching other than that occur in modern. Like I can think of Chord of calling and it doesn't even work against Spoils of the vault against ad nauseam. If I was to kill combo, I'd just run Lost legacy. I can definitely get behind Duress though, card is great and it wins us lots of time against most combo deck.
Also,Kambal, consul of allocation? Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but doesn't he just eat a removal in the face? I don't really see a deck other than storm being hurt by that since control is gonna get rid of it ASAP. Gonna be honest though, cheerio does not want that to hit the battlefield ever
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
Fatal Push is what gave the Tokens the edge it needed. Before, you were vulnerable not only to the combo decks but also to a lot of the aggro decks. But time has been kind to tokens as we have been rewarded with cards like Shambling Vents and Sorin, the Solemn Visitor. I actually used to support a Mardu version of this deck because this deck desperately wanted a turn 1 removal spell. Oh how Lightning Bolt has fallen (although still better than Push in Legacy). Never did I imagine a card as powerful as Fatal Push would be printed; however, you can check out the hilarious doubts people had in previous pages. I think this deck is easily at least Tier 1.5 in power level.
Now I would say the one thing that's really stopping this deck is some of the sideboard hate cards. Things like Ensnaring Bridge and Engineered Explosives are rough. Technically, all the other midrange decks get super neutered by Rest in Peace, but few decks can actually afford to play Rest in Peace like we can; hence, they're still alive in the meta. I think in theory, Pithing Needle is just great in stopping Explosives and Liliana of the Last Hope. It's also one of the best cards against Tron, due to its flexibility. But I haven't played the deck in a while so I wouldn't know. Maybe it's good against the new Company deck as well? You guys tell me.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
4 fatal push
4 path to exile
4 intangible virtue
4 auriok champion
4 bitterblossoms
4 spectral procession
4 lingering souls
2 Sorin, Solemn visitor
4 concealed courtyard
4 marsh flats
4 godless shrine
4 plains
1 swamp
2 shambling vents
4 fetid Heath
1 vault of the archangel
2 duress
2 relic of progenitus
2 zealous persecution
2 stony silence
2 sundering growth
2 Kambal, consul of Allocation
2 Aven mindcensor
1 hallowed moonlight
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Fetid Heath is an awesome card. If I have a swamp on the battlefield I can still play an auriok champion turn 2 and spectral procession on turn 3. Very rarely do I have to mulligan because of it.
I agree Sorin is awesome, but as a legendary we can only have 1 on the battlefield.
I'm totally open to running more planeswalkers, replacing fetid Heath with other lands, and runnning something else over mindcensor, but this list has been working really well for me.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
3x Bitterblossom
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
2x Start / Finish
DISRUPTION + REMOVAL 16
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Collective Brutality
2x Thoughtseize
1x Duress
3x Fatal Push
4x Path to Exile
ANTHEMS 7
3x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4x Intangible Virtue
3x Plains
3x Shambling Vent
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
4x Concealed Courtyard
2x Flooded Strand
3x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Windswept Heath
2x Disenchant
1x Extirpate
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Peace
2x Runed Halo
3x Stony Silence
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Wrath of God
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Changes from last week were the third Bitterblossom and Fatal Push, instead 2 Blessed Alliance that I tried that time.
Affinity 2-0
It was fairly easy to manage. Thank God I am running 3 Fatal Pushes again. Landed Bitterblossom in each game and they literally won me the game, the card is nuts. Game 2 was the same. I saw none of my SB. After that, I played like 3-4 more games against the guy, for fun (he is a really good player) and won all of them but 1.
IN: 3 Stony Silence, 2 Disenchant, 1 Runed Halo.
OUT: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Duress, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek.
UB Tezzerator 1-1-1
Game 1 he assembled the combo and one just can't keep up with so many tokens. Game 2 I saw Stony Silence and kept a Disenchant in hand to deal with his Ensnaring Bridge for the last hit. The third game I went Inquisition of Kozilek for the Thopter Foundry into Surgical Extraction. Also considered saving this effect for the Ensnaring Bridge, because I had a Disenchant in hand, which I ended playing very nicely on his Wurmcoil Engine (that got me w/o removal after board) in response to a Ratchet Bomb activation that ended up killing his tokens as well. I believe he missed the kill in his penultimate turn when he could have ult Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and played another one. Tied, nice games.
IN: 3 Stony Silence, 2 Disenchant, 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Extirpate.
OUT: 4 Path to Exile, 3 Fatal Push, 2 Collective Brutality.
Eldratron 2-1
I surprisingly took game 1 after I led on Thoughtseize on his All is dust. Again, double Bitterblossom won me the game. Game 2 was the typical map into tron into Thought-knot Seer into Reality Smasher draw. I resisted fairly long, but the Reality Smasher by surprised and died. Game 3, I was able to land the Stony Silence before he could crack his map and that gave me tonnes of time. Runed Halo numbbed 2 Thought-knot Seers and 3 Intangible Virtues made him concede. Very happy with the games.
IN: 3 Stony Silence, 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Wrath of God, 2 Runed Halo.
OUT: 3 Fatal Push, 2 Collective Brutality, 4 Inquisition of Kozilek.
Death's Shadow Jund 2-0
Before starting the match the guy was bragging about how he had won every game of every match, so it was especially sweet to crush him 2-0. The match is unfairly favourable to us. Game 1 I had a nice hand, but game 2 I kept a 5 lander and was still able to pull the win of a resolved Lingering Souls. Luckily, he never saw a Temur battle rage.
IN: 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Runed Halo.
OUT: 2 Collective Brutality, 1 Duress.
I had real fun and was very happy with the results and the design of the deck. I won't be changing it anymore until I get the playset of Marsh Flats and Liliana of the Veil that I will play for a Duress or a Spectral Procession. 3 Bitterblossoms is just crazy powerful in our deck and I could see arguments for the 4th but I will stick to 3 now. Also, agreed with comments on Fatal Push. We needed something like that. I could also see the 4th one, but I feel 3 is okay with 2 Collective Brutality.
If you have any feedback on the SB tech or the deck, please do so!! Thanks!!
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Nice build! May I ask why you are running that Duress in the first place? With 4x Inquisition of Kozilek, 2x Thoughtseize, and 2x Collective Brutality, I'd say you have your bases covered haha.
Liliana of the Veil isn't a bad idea. I'm personally including two in my new build, but your priority should absolutely be getting those Marsh Flats. It's hard to overstate the importance of a proper land base.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
And yeah, totally right. They are in my shopping cart since long ago, just waiting to get the sources for them.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Why are you running wrath of god over dusk // dawn? Do you think that it's better to secure the board wipe against them or do you think creatures would slip under it to easily? I quite like you're list I run something quite similar although a little lighter on the discard in the mainboard. Also how has start // finish been? I've considered trying 1 of for testing I believe I'm running a 4th bitterblossom and a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar over them. Congrats on the finish!
Start // Finish is awesome. Fixed 2-of in my deck by now. Don't think more than 2 are good enough, though. It is also great as an extra removal spell that can answer things were Fatal Push is not enough or for those Grave Titan that some ad nauseam players play after we side all our removal out in game 2.
Gideon is something I always wanted to try but never had the chance, and now... I wouldn't know what to take out from my list. Probably a Spectral Procession. How do you find him? Pros and cons of gids?
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic