Second matchup was GB Tron. The mainboard Ghost Quarter[s slowed my opponent down long enough for me to Ultimate Liliana of the Veil in the first game, and hitting another Ghost Quarter followed by Surgical Extraction sealed the deal on the second. This is the first time I have beaten Tron with a BW Tokens build.
My third Matchup was UR Gifts Storm, and my fourth was against Cheerios. Constant pressure from discard and removal on top of resolved Bitterblossoms and Liliana of the Veils carried me to two more 2-0 matchups against these Combo decks, and first place for the 18 person FNM.
Liliana of the Veil did a ton of work for me tonight, and I stand by running the full playset in this atypical build. I am really happy with how my custom Tokens variant has been performing recently. It's not quite as fast as the traditional Tokens build, but it feels more robust and versatile. The ability to run four Ghost Quarter due to the loosened mana requirements from dropping Spectral Procession actually makes the Tron matchup manageable, not to mention helps to deal with manlands and cards like Valakut. I still like the traditional Tokens build, and will continue to run it from time to time, but I have been having a lot of fun and success with my custom alternate core (there is a 19 card difference between the two), and plan to keep it going for as long as this winning streak continues.
I don't think it's optimal to run a full 4 Liliana. Yes it's the best card to have against the unfavorable combo decks but this is a card you want more to top deck rather than have in your opening hand. BW Token dumps its cards slowly making Liliana's +1 more of a disadvantage for us than for any non-combo/control opponent.
Spectral Procession is harder to counter than Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom, both of which are more vulnerable to sideboard hate and discard. The reason Sram is not a good replacement is because your tokens don't fly - not to mention the 4-mana. When your tokens are grounded, you lose a ton of inevitability in the long game. We have Fatal Push for manlands and ghost quarter is not great against Valakut. Don't forget it is also the fastest clock we have.
If your meta is Tron+combo, it makes sense to adopt a ghost quarter build with Liliana but this is not an optimal build in a normal meta.
I don't think it's optimal to run a full 4 Liliana. Yes it's the best card to have against the unfavorable combo decks but this is a card you want more to top deck rather than have in your opening hand. BW Token dumps its cards slowly making Liliana's +1 more of a disadvantage for us than for any non-combo/control opponent.
Spectral Procession is harder to counter than Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom, both of which are more vulnerable to sideboard hate and discard. The reason Sram is not a good replacement is because your tokens don't fly - not to mention the 4-mana. When your tokens are grounded, you lose a ton of inevitability in the long game. We have Fatal Push for manlands and ghost quarter is not great against Valakut. Don't forget it is also the fastest clock we have.
If your meta is Tron+combo, it makes sense to adopt a ghost quarter build with Liliana but this is not an optimal build in a normal meta.
I run 4 LotV and honestly if I can hit a Discard -> Bitterblossom -> LotV against combo decks I'm very favored to win. Plus you can always dump a Lingering and still get use afterward. That's not favorable but it's an option if you need it.
LotV makes your deck if you build to suit her.
Sram's is a meta choice against Tron and can cheat out a Liliana.
I don't think it's optimal to run a full 4 Liliana. Yes it's the best card to have against the unfavorable combo decks but this is a card you want more to top deck rather than have in your opening hand. BW Token dumps its cards slowly making Liliana's +1 more of a disadvantage for us than for any non-combo/control opponent.
Spectral Procession is harder to counter than Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom, both of which are more vulnerable to sideboard hate and discard. The reason Sram is not a good replacement is because your tokens don't fly - not to mention the 4-mana. When your tokens are grounded, you lose a ton of inevitability in the long game. We have Fatal Push for manlands and ghost quarter is not great against Valakut. Don't forget it is also the fastest clock we have.
If your meta is Tron+combo, it makes sense to adopt a ghost quarter build with Liliana but this is not an optimal build in a normal meta.
The meta where I play on Fridays is mostly Aggro, Combo, and Tron, which is why I play my Ghost Quarter / Liliana build there.
The meta at the store where I play on Mondays is almost exclusively Jund, Junk, Grixis, and Death's Shadow, so I always run a traditional tokens build at that LGS.
My local LGS recently had a $250 jackpot tournament and there were decks there that I've never played against. Can I get our odds and best in slot for these decks?
Skred
8-Rack
Also in the tournament was
Dredge
UR Storm
3 Infects
Cord of Calling
My local LGS recently had a $250 jackpot tournament and there were decks there that I've never played against. Can I get our odds and best in slot for these decks?
Skred
8-Rack
Also in the tournament was
Dredge
UR Storm
3 Infects
Cord of Calling
Top3 were
1 GU Infect
2 Skred
3 Chord of Calling
Skred is like 50/50, board out Path cause it's awful, they don't care about most of the creatures and they run Stormbreath Dragon. Fatal Push is good, Runed Halo on SC Mountain is very good, Worship is very hard for them to beat.
8-Rack is bad, they run Ensnaring Bridge in most cases, they have a huge amount if discard, and they run 4 Smallpox. Auriok, EE, Artifact/Enchant hate, and life gain in, take all removal out.
Last FNM was not very good for me. A bad combination of bad luck and me being stupid made me end up 2-2.
1- Valakut 1-2: I had the game point in the three matches and I could only finish him in the second. He topdecked crazily and I didn't ghost quarter his valaukts when I should have...
2- Elves 2-1: I estabilised thanks to ghostly prison and when he found his reclamation sage, it was to late.
3- Burn 0-2: Played like an ass here. Still I think a better series of decision would have resulted in me burnt to death in any case.
4- Infect 2-0: Easy peasy. It almost feels unfair.
So, question: I am currently running 1 timely reinforcements main. There are several aggro (burn among them) players in my LGS, so I am going to add a second somewhere in my 75. My doubt is whether to take out a ghostly prison from the SB or a spectral procession from the main. I am running 3 ghost quarters, so SP might not be as crazy as I first thought. I really like having 2 GP in the SB for the sake of consistency. The cards is just broken.
How wrong is it to use 1 less procession? Timely might be a dead cards in some matchups but these are mostly matchups were SP is already bad (combo and tron). Check my deck in the link below.
Welp, IQ was a bust, none of the matches my group prepared for were there in force, we faced each other more than anyone else (54 players so WTF?). I went 1-3 drop, lost 1-2 to Infect and Rack in very good games but still unfortunate. the Infect player is a local I face rather often and we're familiar with each others decks and play style so the match is more even than it usually is. Beat Jund 2-1 in pretty standard games, then lost to a buddy on Skred 0-2 to multiple Stormbreath Dragons.
Hi, thanks for the recommendation. I just sold my runed halos for marsh flats. I'm thinking about ghost quarter perhaps. Runed halo is out of stock in our area.
Hi, thanks for the recommendation. I just sold my runed halos for marsh flats. I'm thinking about ghost quarter perhaps. Runed halo is out of stock in our area.
Ghost Quarter is dead vs Skred, the deck runs something like 18 Basic lands, and Scrying Sheets isn't something they care about losing much. 8-rack is the same, nearly all basics and they don't care about Mutavault. However a couple GQ main never hurts, wouldn't go above 2 though.
Hi, thanks for the recommendation. I just sold my runed halos for marsh flats. I'm thinking about ghost quarter perhaps. Runed halo is out of stock in our area.
Ghost Quarter is dead vs Skred, the deck runs something like 18 Basic lands, and Scrying Sheets isn't something they care about losing much. 8-rack is the same, nearly all basics and they don't care about Mutavault. However a couple GQ main never hurts, wouldn't go above 2 though.
He is probably referring to Koth mountain activations and Ghost Quarter'ing our own land against Blood Moon scenarios.
I personally never liked the ghost quarter main unless I am facing a very skewed local meta. I think the deck - at least with standard 4 spectral procession - can't afford more than 1 colorless land and if I had to pick one, I would definitely pick the vault of the archangel over ghost quarter.
Regarding Skred: I would say you can run 2-3 Burrenton Forge-Tender in the side if you see these and other red decks like Valakut/ U control decks.
Being 1-mana makes it easy to side in and it is just very good at protection against boardwipes. Selfess Spirit is superior against non-red decks due to the prevalence of Engineered Explosives but if your local meta is full of red decks, run the Burrenton.
Last FNM was not very good for me. A bad combination of bad luck and me being stupid made me end up 2-2.
1- Valakut 1-2: I had the game point in the three matches and I could only finish him in the second. He topdecked crazily and I didn't ghost quarter his valaukts when I should have...
2- Elves 2-1: I estabilised thanks to ghostly prison and when he found his reclamation sage, it was to late.
3- Burn 0-2: Played like an ass here. Still I think a better series of decision would have resulted in me burnt to death in any case.
4- Infect 2-0: Easy peasy. It almost feels unfair.
So, question: I am currently running 1 timely reinforcements main. There are several aggro (burn among them) players in my LGS, so I am going to add a second somewhere in my 75. My doubt is whether to take out a ghostly prison from the SB or a spectral procession from the main. I am running 3 ghost quarters, so SP might not be as crazy as I first thought. I really like having 2 GP in the SB for the sake of consistency. The cards is just broken.
How wrong is it to use 1 less procession? Timely might be a dead cards in some matchups but these are mostly matchups were SP is already bad (combo and tron). Check my deck in the link below.
Thanks in advance.
You could cut 1 less Spectral Procession but it is technically our fastest clock and is insane in fair match-ups, where you can't hate it out without anything but Thoughtseize and boardwipes. Never go below 3 unless you run a very heavy control build.
My problem with Timely is that it's too unreliable for both the main and side. I think you can run it in a deck that uses little removal and can expect to get pummeled the first few turns. Otherwise, I would stick with something else.
Ghostly Prison is very good but I have been trying Ensnaring Bridge over it. I think in most scenarios, Bridge is going to be better. Some exceptions are decks like Infect and Dredge, but you would never bring this in against Infect. Prison is more reliable turns 3-5 but if you run the standard 4 path + 4 push removal set, as well as 6 discard, you can buy more than enough time for Bridge to be great. Against Eldrazi, Ensnaring Bridge is insane along with Runed Halo.
thanks for the comment. I will give timely a try, though, as 2 MB. Worst case it gives us some time and let's recover from Bitterblossom.
About the bridge, I think it could be definitely better than prison (I am imagining a resolved Eugene not being able to exile it, or same for all is dust). However, it is also much more expensive... And I usualy bring the prison against infect btw, with disruption in the first turns, it makes it soooo tough for them to transform their good topdecks in damage.
I know the 1 mana might make the difference but... In my experience, for example against tron, even when you slam a turn 2 stony silence on the play, they will eventually play around it.
I have run it before but never got much use cause my meta shifted a but and I cut it, but it doesn't seem awful imo. I've also been debating trying a Linvala side now that she's not $50+
I second that about bridge. I have thought about running it, between our mulligan strategy and massive throughput of cards we can find ourselves with no cards in hand quickly. The only issue i can forsee is hate cards.
I would never cut a procession for a timely. Timely is just not reliable enough. I have been in burn matches where my opponent had more creatures and less life than me or where I had more creatures and life than them.
The thing you have to realize about life gain versus a deck like burn is that it doesn't do anything if they can still out clock it. Timely gives you 6 life, which is essentially two cards in a burn deck. In the late burn game plan, that is two draws or two turns. If you can't close out the game in those two turns, then you didn't buy anything. That is why cards like Sorin, Auriok Champion, and Vault of the Archangel are so good in tokens versus burn and other decks: they are sources of incremental and long term life gain. Burrenton Forge Tender and Auriok Champion also do blocking duty and negate the creature suite for burn.
yeah, but the key point is that it buys us 2 turns JUST when we need it, i.e., turns 3-4. This way we can play Sorin and still have three guys on the ground to keep gaining life with. When I lose, it is usually turn 3-4, so I have to disagree with vault here because turn 5 against burn is waaay too optimistic.
Nevertheless, I agree that cutting 1 spectral seems unnatural... I will give it a try this Friday and will come back with the results.
Never really paid much attention to BW Tokens as i never really considered it a good deck (My first encounter was me playing Tron... Ugin says it all). After some investigation and reading into it a bit the deck really appeals to me and i want to give it a shot.
The list i am thinking about playing looks like this:
I am not sure if Timely Reinforcements is better than Auriok Champion against Burn. Normally BW Tokens has more creatures than them i assume. No Creatures in the MD is because i try to blank all good removal my opponent has (Paths/Terminate etc.) and then board in the bigger fellas who survive Pyroclasms and Angers.
Further i am not sure what to make of Selfless Spirit. It's obviously amazing against boardwipes but is it worth playing it MD?
I don't think it's optimal to run a full 4 Liliana. Yes it's the best card to have against the unfavorable combo decks but this is a card you want more to top deck rather than have in your opening hand. BW Token dumps its cards slowly making Liliana's +1 more of a disadvantage for us than for any non-combo/control opponent.
Spectral Procession is harder to counter than Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom, both of which are more vulnerable to sideboard hate and discard. The reason Sram is not a good replacement is because your tokens don't fly - not to mention the 4-mana. When your tokens are grounded, you lose a ton of inevitability in the long game. We have Fatal Push for manlands and ghost quarter is not great against Valakut. Don't forget it is also the fastest clock we have.
If your meta is Tron+combo, it makes sense to adopt a ghost quarter build with Liliana but this is not an optimal build in a normal meta.
I run 4 LotV and honestly if I can hit a Discard -> Bitterblossom -> LotV against combo decks I'm very favored to win. Plus you can always dump a Lingering and still get use afterward. That's not favorable but it's an option if you need it.
LotV makes your deck if you build to suit her.
Sram's is a meta choice against Tron and can cheat out a Liliana.
The meta where I play on Fridays is mostly Aggro, Combo, and Tron, which is why I play my Ghost Quarter / Liliana build there.
The meta at the store where I play on Mondays is almost exclusively Jund, Junk, Grixis, and Death's Shadow, so I always run a traditional tokens build at that LGS.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
Skred
8-Rack
Also in the tournament was
Dredge
UR Storm
3 Infects
Cord of Calling
Top3 were
1 GU Infect
2 Skred
3 Chord of Calling
Skred is like 50/50, board out Path cause it's awful, they don't care about most of the creatures and they run Stormbreath Dragon. Fatal Push is good, Runed Halo on SC Mountain is very good, Worship is very hard for them to beat.
8-Rack is bad, they run Ensnaring Bridge in most cases, they have a huge amount if discard, and they run 4 Smallpox. Auriok, EE, Artifact/Enchant hate, and life gain in, take all removal out.
1- Valakut 1-2: I had the game point in the three matches and I could only finish him in the second. He topdecked crazily and I didn't ghost quarter his valaukts when I should have...
2- Elves 2-1: I estabilised thanks to ghostly prison and when he found his reclamation sage, it was to late.
3- Burn 0-2: Played like an ass here. Still I think a better series of decision would have resulted in me burnt to death in any case.
4- Infect 2-0: Easy peasy. It almost feels unfair.
So, question: I am currently running 1 timely reinforcements main. There are several aggro (burn among them) players in my LGS, so I am going to add a second somewhere in my 75. My doubt is whether to take out a ghostly prison from the SB or a spectral procession from the main. I am running 3 ghost quarters, so SP might not be as crazy as I first thought. I really like having 2 GP in the SB for the sake of consistency. The cards is just broken.
How wrong is it to use 1 less procession? Timely might be a dead cards in some matchups but these are mostly matchups were SP is already bad (combo and tron). Check my deck in the link below.
Thanks in advance.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Ghost Quarter is dead vs Skred, the deck runs something like 18 Basic lands, and Scrying Sheets isn't something they care about losing much. 8-rack is the same, nearly all basics and they don't care about Mutavault. However a couple GQ main never hurts, wouldn't go above 2 though.
He is probably referring to Koth mountain activations and Ghost Quarter'ing our own land against Blood Moon scenarios.
I personally never liked the ghost quarter main unless I am facing a very skewed local meta. I think the deck - at least with standard 4 spectral procession - can't afford more than 1 colorless land and if I had to pick one, I would definitely pick the vault of the archangel over ghost quarter.
Regarding Skred: I would say you can run 2-3 Burrenton Forge-Tender in the side if you see these and other red decks like Valakut/ U control decks.
Being 1-mana makes it easy to side in and it is just very good at protection against boardwipes. Selfess Spirit is superior against non-red decks due to the prevalence of Engineered Explosives but if your local meta is full of red decks, run the Burrenton.
You could cut 1 less Spectral Procession but it is technically our fastest clock and is insane in fair match-ups, where you can't hate it out without anything but Thoughtseize and boardwipes. Never go below 3 unless you run a very heavy control build.
My problem with Timely is that it's too unreliable for both the main and side. I think you can run it in a deck that uses little removal and can expect to get pummeled the first few turns. Otherwise, I would stick with something else.
Ghostly Prison is very good but I have been trying Ensnaring Bridge over it. I think in most scenarios, Bridge is going to be better. Some exceptions are decks like Infect and Dredge, but you would never bring this in against Infect. Prison is more reliable turns 3-5 but if you run the standard 4 path + 4 push removal set, as well as 6 discard, you can buy more than enough time for Bridge to be great. Against Eldrazi, Ensnaring Bridge is insane along with Runed Halo.
About the bridge, I think it could be definitely better than prison (I am imagining a resolved Eugene not being able to exile it, or same for all is dust). However, it is also much more expensive... And I usualy bring the prison against infect btw, with disruption in the first turns, it makes it soooo tough for them to transform their good topdecks in damage.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
It is one more mana than stony silence but also deactivates creatures like eldrazi displacer, endbringer, drowner of hope, scavenging ooze, tasigur, the golden fang, Knight of the Reliquary, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Spike feeder, kiki-jiki, mirror breaker, Glen Elendra Archmage, ezuri, renegade leader, Griselbrand... apart from all the applications of stony silence but mana abilities. And probably I am forgetting some more.
Also, and hugely important, all is dust and ugin, the spirit dragon can not deal with it!
I know the 1 mana might make the difference but... In my experience, for example against tron, even when you slam a turn 2 stony silence on the play, they will eventually play around it.
EDIT: selfless spirit will be anulled. Nevermind, because their ratchet bombs and oblivion stones will be also dead. For the matches where there is only red wide removals, we just don't bring stony silence or damping matrix
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
I would never cut a procession for a timely. Timely is just not reliable enough. I have been in burn matches where my opponent had more creatures and less life than me or where I had more creatures and life than them.
The thing you have to realize about life gain versus a deck like burn is that it doesn't do anything if they can still out clock it. Timely gives you 6 life, which is essentially two cards in a burn deck. In the late burn game plan, that is two draws or two turns. If you can't close out the game in those two turns, then you didn't buy anything. That is why cards like Sorin, Auriok Champion, and Vault of the Archangel are so good in tokens versus burn and other decks: they are sources of incremental and long term life gain. Burrenton Forge Tender and Auriok Champion also do blocking duty and negate the creature suite for burn.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Yep, I bring in Auriok/Alliance/Worship usually.
It's a good job most Burn players have ditched have ditched B and Bump in the Night for G and Atarka's Command. Otherwise, that Worship would look rather sily.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Nevertheless, I agree that cutting 1 spectral seems unnatural... I will give it a try this Friday and will come back with the results.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Never really paid much attention to BW Tokens as i never really considered it a good deck (My first encounter was me playing Tron... Ugin says it all). After some investigation and reading into it a bit the deck really appeals to me and i want to give it a shot.
The list i am thinking about playing looks like this:
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
3 Inquisition
3 Thoughtseize
Instants
3 Raise the Alarm
4 Path to Exile
2 Zealous Persecution
Enchantments
4 Intagible Virtue
4 Bitterblossom
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Lands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
2 Shambling Vent
3 Concealed Courtyard
4 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Thoughtseize
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Disenchant
3 Timely Reinforcements
I am not sure if Timely Reinforcements is better than Auriok Champion against Burn. Normally BW Tokens has more creatures than them i assume. No Creatures in the MD is because i try to blank all good removal my opponent has (Paths/Terminate etc.) and then board in the bigger fellas who survive Pyroclasms and Angers.
Further i am not sure what to make of Selfless Spirit. It's obviously amazing against boardwipes but is it worth playing it MD?
Would love to hear your opinions on this!
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG