3 Timely Reinforcements is way too many in the main deck.
Spectral Procession is one of the best cards in the deck. Always play at least 12 (reliable) token generators unless you have a very good meta-specific reason. You'd have to cut down on some colorless lands to play it but it's definitely worth this sacrifice. More push and less situational cards like blessed alliance and brutality.
The matches where I was interested in bringing it in - Lantern Control, Tron, Eldrazi, etc. - were all matches where all my 3-drops were important (Liliana, spectral procession, lingering souls). And I couldn't really cut the 2-drops or the 4-drop slots either, as they provided additional clocks or provided room for sideboard hate.
Some critique:
- go up to at least 3 Fatal Push, possibly 4. It makes your aggro matchup much better. Cut Dismember/ put Blessed Alliance in the SB.
- I do not recommend Read the Bones. Our matchup against grindy decks is good enough and it sucks versus aggro.
- Cut 1 Timely Reinforcements from the Main. It is dead in some matchups and you can still board it or Auriok Champion if you need the life/blockers. A combination of 3 overall Auriok/Blessed Alliance in your SB and 2 Timely main should be enough for the aggro matchup, so you can free up some space in the SB.
- Your list is light on token producers. I'd say play at least some Spectral Procession or more Bitterblossom/Raise the Alarm.
- If you want to beat Tron, play a combination of as many as you can in your sideboard: Stony Silence, Pithing Needle, Duress, Lost Legacy, Selfless Spirit, Tidehollow Sculler. I personally don't like Surgical Extraction since it needs 2 cards to be useful. That said, you need to dedicate a lot of sideboard cards for Tron to be a halfway decent matchup, and even then it's about 45/55 in their favor...
Thanks for your help.
I agree about read the bones (one day the will be Lilis) may I change them for token producers (secure the wastes/Gideon)?, and the need of, at least, 3 fatal push, but I have just 2.
I've moved 1 timely from main to SB for a persecution.
Tonight Ill play at my LGS and ill give you feedback.
I recommend 2 Hero of Bladehold in the sideboard.
So broken when they side out all the removal (as they should always do).
But they don't. They side out as many as they can but inevitably some removal stays in. In addition, plenty of threats in Modern can still block Hero and kill it.
The primary reason I no longer put Hero in the side is because Gideon exists. Gideon kills just as quickly (on an empty board) but is far more versatile in what he can do, as well as harder to kill.
I recommend 2 Hero of Bladehold in the sideboard.
So broken when they side out all the removal (as they should always do).
But they don't. They side out as many as they can but inevitably some removal stays in. In addition, plenty of threats in Modern can still block Hero and kill it.
The primary reason I no longer put Hero in the side is because Gideon exists. Gideon kills just as quickly (on an empty board) but is far more versatile in what he can do, as well as harder to kill.
I agree here. Hero is ideally great because they take all their spot removal out, but this never actually happens. She won me a couple games but, on average, I found her waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too slow.
So I've been messing around with this deck, but I think I've gone in a pretty different direction than a lot of you. This is my list, the best opening I've had so far led to me attacking for 24 damage on turn 4.
There is a lot of stuff that needs re-working in the list, as it's very much in progress. I think I need to go up to 4 Nissa's, and switch to the other Sorin, or maybe Elspeth or Gideon. Spectral Procession, Smuggler's Copter, and Eternal Witness all probably need to go, and I'm becoming less and less of a fan of Intangible Virtue. Lost Legacy with Birds is awesome, I'd like to add either some Elves of Deep Shadow or Noble Hierarch's to up the consistency of T1 mana dude.
I know some of those suggestions might strike you guys as odd, but the combination of Sram's and Call and Souls obsoletes Procession. It's too much work to get WWW, and at WW2, it's just way worse than Sram's, clogs up the 4 spot, and is redundant. Call casts better off of Windbrisk as well, and at 3 mana, Souls is just a better card. Kambal is amazing. If you haven't tried him, you absolutely should. This guy is severely underrated right now. Dominates the mirror and control decks. Thalis and Alive//Well are bad choices for this deck I've found.
I'm wide open to suggestions and criticisms. The lack of removal so far has only been a problem vs. Merfolk, and there only due to the unblockability provided by Spreading Seas and various Lords. Everyone else you just outcreature with giant tokens. It's important to note that casting "Beck" on it's own is often a pretty good play. If you have even just a BoP or a walker out, it cycles for two mana, if you have more options, you can get 2 or 3 cards out of it pretty easily in this deck. It also works off of your opponents' creatures, which doesn't come up often, but is worth keeping in mind.
EDIT: oh, and the sequence that led to a 24 damage attack on t4 was: T1: BoP. T2: Lingering Souls. T3: Sram's Expertise casting Beck//Call. T4: Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Lingering Virtue. (It would have been for more but I chump blocked a few things/ate removal with some tokens.
I don't know about you, but I'm not a big fan of being four color, especially seeing that you run a full playset of Gavony Township, which is a great card, but looking at your mana requirement, I'd feel like you don't have a lot of space for colorless mana in the deck.
Really like the Sram's Expertise + Beck/Call Combo you got there. Do you get to cast both half this way?
I don't know about you, but I'm not a big fan of being four color, especially seeing that you run a full playset of Gavony Township, which is a great card, but looking at your mana requirement, I'd feel like you don't have a lot of space for colorless mana in the deck.
Really like the Sram's Expertise + Beck/Call Combo you got there. Do you get to cast both half this way?
Yes. It's 4 mana for seven tokens and 4 cards. Crazy good value. You can only cast one half of the card off of Windbrisk Heights though.
The decklist I posted is what I'm using now, and like I said above, it's far from optimal. The mana especially is a huge mess. I'm pretty sure I want to be running at least two Hierarch's in addition to the birds. And it's really three color. Hardcasting either or both halves of Beck//Call does happen, but it's pretty rare. That's also one of the reasons I'm down on Procession in this deck. The mana just doesn't really support it, and if you're cheating it out, Beck//Call beats it handily.
So I've been messing around with this deck, but I think I've gone in a pretty different direction than a lot of you. This is my list, the best opening I've had so far led to me attacking for 24 damage on turn 4.
There is a lot of stuff that needs re-working in the list, as it's very much in progress. I think I need to go up to 4 Nissa's, and switch to the other Sorin, or maybe Elspeth or Gideon. Spectral Procession, Smuggler's Copter, and Eternal Witness all probably need to go, and I'm becoming less and less of a fan of Intangible Virtue. Lost Legacy with Birds is awesome, I'd like to add either some Elves of Deep Shadow or Noble Hierarch's to up the consistency of T1 mana dude.
I know some of those suggestions might strike you guys as odd, but the combination of Sram's and Call and Souls obsoletes Procession. It's too much work to get WWW, and at WW2, it's just way worse than Sram's, clogs up the 4 spot, and is redundant. Call casts better off of Windbrisk as well, and at 3 mana, Souls is just a better card. Kambal is amazing. If you haven't tried him, you absolutely should. This guy is severely underrated right now. Dominates the mirror and control decks. Thalis and Alive//Well are bad choices for this deck I've found.
I'm wide open to suggestions and criticisms. The lack of removal so far has only been a problem vs. Merfolk, and there only due to the unblockability provided by Spreading Seas and various Lords. Everyone else you just outcreature with giant tokens. It's important to note that casting "Beck" on it's own is often a pretty good play. If you have even just a BoP or a walker out, it cycles for two mana, if you have more options, you can get 2 or 3 cards out of it pretty easily in this deck. It also works off of your opponents' creatures, which doesn't come up often, but is worth keeping in mind.
EDIT: oh, and the sequence that led to a 24 damage attack on t4 was: T1: BoP. T2: Lingering Souls. T3: Sram's Expertise casting Beck//Call. T4: Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Lingering Virtue. (It would have been for more but I chump blocked a few things/ate removal with some tokens.
There are a lot of ways to make tokens either (a) more explosive or (b) more value. Problem is either of these things lead to a deck that's inferior at either roles compared to other decks, as well as bringing a myriad of other problems.
For instance, your lack of spot removal basically weakens a lot of your aggro match-ups. Most aggro decks have a way to get around your blockers - burn, trample, island walk, protection, etc.
Beck/Call is a combo card, meaning you essentially can't cast it without either Sram or playing Brain in a Jar. This makes the card extremely inconsistent when you don't draw the other key pieces. Spectral Procession on the other hand will always net you 3 tokens for 3 mana. Of course with your mana base spectral is going to be bad but the question is why you should go outside the BW color in the first place.
Kambal is really bad. Not much to say here. He is bad outside of Burn and even there, he maybe saves you 3-6 life at the most as he is just additional bolt and searing blaze target.
IMO, there's going to be a real Abzan tokens deck, but it's a very different deck from BW tokens. Morgan_Coke, take a look at the deck that Matt Nass ran at GP LA (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12485&d=271893&f=MO). He's using 10 mana dorks and 25 land, and with the exception of Gideon all of the anthem effects work by putting +1/+1 counters on the team.
IMO, there's going to be a real Abzan tokens deck, but it's a very different deck from BW tokens. Morgan_Coke, take a look at the deck that Matt Nass ran at GP LA (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12485&d=271893&f=MO). He's using 10 mana dorks and 25 land, and with the exception of Gideon all of the anthem effects work by putting +1/+1 counters on the team.
That said, I don't think this is really BW Tokens, so I'm not sure this is the right place to hash it out.
The deck by Nass is good it has its own niche by going faster than bw tokens does. Constrictor is probably not where you want to be because the deck is focused on redundant creatures and it is BG in a deck that barely uses black. Hardened scales is a win more card and you have better things to spend mana on.
Round 1: 2-1
vs Collected Werewolves
Very fast and aggro deck. It has a continuous flow of creatures that greatly interact with each other and collected company works great. Also, he played moonmist, which not only improves his creatures but avoids some swings with lifelinked (sorin, solemn visitor) creatures. Won game 1, lost game 2 to a misplay of mine and won game 3 easy.
Sided in: 2ghostly prison and 2selfless spirit
Sided out: 2leyline of the meek, 1anguished unmaking, and 1thoughtseize
Round 3: 2-0
vs Black Infect
Very poor deck in general but truly painful for us. 2black sun's zenith main and 2 more SB were awful. Luckily I was able to generate waves of tokens and some path to exile to remove his Carnifex demon did the job. Long match but it was under control all the time.
Sided in: 1 pithing needle
Sided out: 1 timely reinforcements
Round 4: 2-0
vs White weenie
The guy had won all his matches overwhelming each opponent so I took the deck more seriously than when he showed it to me before the tournament. Typical WW shell with honor of the pure and some small drops along with spectral procession. The vigilance effect of intangible virtue shines here. I controlled the combats on the ground with soldiers while I smashed in the skies with spirits. Ghostly prison is just NUTS (though I still hate the card for how much it made me suffer sometimes). I think we run similar kind of decks but tokens is just the better one.
Sided in: 2 ghostly prison, 1 sundering growth (didn´t really find a place for the second)
Sided out: 2 leyline of the meek (he also had tokens) and anguished unmaking
CONCLUSIONS
1- I felt leyline of the meek to be too circumstantial and not very efficient. Also, any deck running tokens of some sort will annul the pumping effect and it is a pretty horrible topdeck. I will try to replace them somehow (gideon, ally of zendikar is still too expensive in my opinion so I will wait for that).
2- Kataki, war's wage will be my artifact hate card of choice for my SB. Sure I will miss stony silence sometimes but you always miss some card anyway, and our affinity matchup is good enough (I quit considering tron for my SB anymore).
3- Sundering growth works better IMO than Fragmentize. Instant speed is the key factor, the token is more or less meh, ok. I would have preferred fragmentize against 8-rack, for example, but I think I will hold to the 2 instants for the moment.
4- I will add a third fatal push for the anguished unmaking. Even if the latter saved my ass against 8-rack in Round 2, I find it very circumstantial and I feel fatal push will be relevant more times.
To sum up, very please with the deck, as always. I also realised a couple eldrazi decks in the crowd. Hope I get to fight them next FNM. GO TOKENS!
My meta is changing to:
A lot of agroos! Like naya burn, goblins, folk and jeskai
Another relevant decks:
Bant Eldrazi
Infect
RG Titan/Valakut
Uwr control
Affinity
And the more problematic:
2 tron
I'm changing my site for:
- 2 Fulminator Mage
- 1 Zealous Persecution
For
+ 2 Leyline
+ 1 Duress
I need opinions, specially about tron, sounds me a impossible match(fulminator doesn't work)
Another thing you can do is put more hand hate to get rid of their pesky planeswalker and go more aggro that you would normally do. You want them dead as quick as possible before they topdeck something that's gonna ruin your day (Ugin, the Spirit dragon or Oblivion Stone). Pithing Needle really shine here for it gets rid of any planeswalker and most artifact. Pithing an Expedition map is very funny.
With all that being said... that's a lot of cards to consider just to beat one deck, and even with all these the match-up is still "blergh!" at best. Most people will tell you to deal with the fact that this deck is just good at beating us up and focus more on other match-ups.
My meta is changing to:
A lot of agroos! Like naya burn, goblins, folk and jeskai
Another relevant decks:
Bant Eldrazi
Infect
RG Titan/Valakut
Uwr control
Affinity
And the more problematic:
2 tron
I'm changing my site for:
- 2 Fulminator Mage
- 1 Zealous Persecution
For
+ 2 Leyline
+ 1 Duress
I need opinions, specially about tron, sounds me a impossible match(fulminator doesn't work)
Ok first off you need Fatal Push in the main, no less than 3 will do. All those aggro decks you listed except Merfolk are very good for you, or should be. Affinity is nearly autowin, Infect and UWx Control are good as well. Bantdrazi is bad, Valakut is bad but depending on board options can be pretty good. Just don't even bother with Tron, you won't win. With that meta don't run Collective Brutality or Auriok main, they're not going to be helpful there. You want at least 6 1cmc discard, at least 7 1cmc removal, and at least 1 Zealous Persecution main.
Hi guys, what is the general thought about Elspeth, knight-errant?
I played it as 4th plainswalker (in addition to 3 sorin) and I really like it! the two +1 are very good, especially giving flight to shambling vent or simply to a token. I am looking for the right PW combination but I would not like to go below 3x Sorin cause it is too strong! So as 4th PW I am having doubts between Elspeth and Gideon, ally of Zendikar!
Elspeth is playable in a Raise the Alarm build but even then, she is not nearly as good as our other 4-drop choices. Pumping one creature for +3/+3 not only makes spot removal better against us but also it's just generally superior to pump the whole team. Her other +1 ability is just simply too low-impact for 4-mana. There is a big difference between a 1/1 and a 2/2 in my experience. I'd rarely feel comfortable tapping out for her.
Gideon Ally of Zendikar is easily as powerful as Sorin. It has a less broken effect (what beats lifegain in a go-wide deck?) but all 3 of its abilities are versatile and generally great. I think a 3 Sorin and 1 Gideon split is great.
Soooo... Last night did not go well at all. Went 0-3 and pretty much all of it was my fault. I did not mulligan when I should have, made some misplays here and there. Anyway Here are the match-ups:
Round 1 vs Living End (On the draw)(0-2): Game 1 and two went very good for him. He basically always pulled off a Living End by turn 3 with grave of about 6-7 creatures each time. I got run over game 1, and game two my sideboard didn't show up, however I did not even try to mulligan for it and i should have. Felt like my hand could work out, but I was wrong. I was able to deal with his creatures for longer than on game 1, but he eventually cascaded into another Living End.
Side-in/out: Two of both Nihil Spellbomb and Runed Halo for my playset of Fatal Push. Did not see any of it.
Round 2 vs Esper Thopter foundry (On the draw) (0-2): This one was all my fault, for I simply missed two opportunity for removing very relevant creatures. Along with the infamous Thopter foundry + Sword of the Meeks, he also played only token generators and no creature aside from Emrakul, the Aeons torn and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite which he uses Polymorph to bring out. Pretty fun deck actually, I've been kind of interested to do that myself for a while since I naturally don't run creature main and splashing blue for the 4th turn isn't hard at all. That aside, he got an elesh norn game 1, and game 2 I sided like a donkey and he had time to put enough thopter tokens to before I drew Pithing Needle.
Side-in/out: Two Fragmentize and two Pithing Needle for two Timely reinforcements and two Inquisition of Kozilek. I really don't know what I was thinking. I could have sided some grave hate to get rid of the thopter combo, and I could definitely have kept the inquisitions.
Round 3 vs Naya Burn (2-0): Was actually a fun game for we both had fun "badluck" stories to tell each other. We also had out fair share of bad luck those very games. Game 1 went very well for him, kind of as good as burd can do. He was able to prevent my lifegain with Atarka's command and managed to kill me on turn 4. As for game 2 it got ridiculous. We both got to 8 lands game 2 in an absurd battle of mana flood. My Runed halo managed to redirect his Rift Bolt to his face twice, which we both found very funny. Afterward he managed to get his burn eventually, and I drew 1 Raise the Alarm and 1 Sorin, Solemn visitor for token generators. I think that overall, counting all 6 games I made, I probably generated less than 15 tokens total.
Side-in/out: Two Blessed Alliance, two Runed Halo and two Selfless Spirit for my discard engine. Seen both Runed Halo and one Blessed Alliance, but it ultimately didn't matter.
Sooo, yeah. Kind of a drastic change of pace from last four weeks. kinda feel down a little, but hey. Gotta have those bad games from time to time. If anything it just prompted me to make some changes to my deck. Probably gonna experience with some little changes for a while.
Soooo... Last night did not go well at all. Went 0-3 and pretty much all of it was my fault. I did not mulligan when I should have, made some misplays here and there. Anyway Here are the match-ups:
Round 1 vs Living End (On the draw)(0-2): Game 1 and two went very good for him. He basically always pulled off a Living End by turn 3 with grave of about 6-7 creatures each time. I got run over game 1, and game two my sideboard didn't show up, however I did not even try to mulligan for it and i should have. Felt like my hand could work out, but I was wrong. I was able to deal with his creatures for longer than on game 1, but he eventually cascaded into another Living End.
Side-in/out: Two of both Nihil Spellbomb and Runed Halo for my playset of Fatal Push. Did not see any of it.
Round 2 vs Esper Thopter foundry (On the draw) (0-2): This one was all my fault, for I simply missed two opportunity for removing very relevant creatures. Along with the infamous Thopter foundry + Sword of the Meeks, he also played only token generators and no creature aside from Emrakul, the Aeons torn and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite which he uses Polymorph to bring out. Pretty fun deck actually, I've been kind of interested to do that myself for a while since I naturally don't run creature main and splashing blue for the 4th turn isn't hard at all. That aside, he got an elesh norn game 1, and game 2 I sided like a donkey and he had time to put enough thopter tokens to before I drew Pithing Needle.
Side-in/out: Two Fragmentize and two Pithing Needle for two Timely reinforcements and two Inquisition of Kozilek. I really don't know what I was thinking. I could have sided some grave hate to get rid of the thopter combo, and I could definitely have kept the inquisitions.
Round 3 vs Naya Burn (2-0): Was actually a fun game for we both had fun "badluck" stories to tell each other. We also had out fair share of bad luck those very games. Game 1 went very well for him, kind of as good as burd can do. He was able to prevent my lifegain with Atarka's command and managed to kill me on turn 4. As for game 2 it got ridiculous. We both got to 8 lands game 2 in an absurd battle of mana flood. My Runed halo managed to redirect his Rift Bolt to his face twice, which we both found very funny. Afterward he managed to get his burn eventually, and I drew 1 Raise the Alarm and 1 Sorin, Solemn visitor for token generators. I think that overall, counting all 6 games I made, I probably generated less than 15 tokens total.
Side-in/out: Two Blessed Alliance, two Runed Halo and two Selfless Spirit for my discard engine. Seen both Runed Halo and one Blessed Alliance, but it ultimately didn't matter.
Sooo, yeah. Kind of a drastic change of pace from last four weeks. kinda feel down a little, but hey. Gotta have those bad games from time to time. If anything it just prompted me to make some changes to my deck. Probably gonna experience with some little changes for a while.
To be fair living end and thopter combo are very hard match-ups. I always use at least 3 graveyard hate in the side and even then the probability is not in your favor to draw them. Would do a 2 RiP and 1 nihil spellbomb split personally.
Burn is burn. With 4 push, 4 path, 3 shambling,1 vault, and 3 Sorin I find the match-up is fine even just for the main. I like burrenton and selfless spirit replacing 3 BB which protect our shambling vent from bolt and searing blaze.
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Spectral Procession is one of the best cards in the deck. Always play at least 12 (reliable) token generators unless you have a very good meta-specific reason. You'd have to cut down on some colorless lands to play it but it's definitely worth this sacrifice. More push and less situational cards like blessed alliance and brutality.
The matches where I was interested in bringing it in - Lantern Control, Tron, Eldrazi, etc. - were all matches where all my 3-drops were important (Liliana, spectral procession, lingering souls). And I couldn't really cut the 2-drops or the 4-drop slots either, as they provided additional clocks or provided room for sideboard hate.
Thanks for your help.
I agree about read the bones (one day the will be Lilis) may I change them for token producers (secure the wastes/Gideon)?, and the need of, at least, 3 fatal push, but I have just 2.
I've moved 1 timely from main to SB for a persecution.
Tonight Ill play at my LGS and ill give you feedback.
But they don't. They side out as many as they can but inevitably some removal stays in. In addition, plenty of threats in Modern can still block Hero and kill it.
The primary reason I no longer put Hero in the side is because Gideon exists. Gideon kills just as quickly (on an empty board) but is far more versatile in what he can do, as well as harder to kill.
I agree here. Hero is ideally great because they take all their spot removal out, but this never actually happens. She won me a couple games but, on average, I found her waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too slow.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
2x Monastery Mentor
Enchantments
4x Intangible Virtue
Vehicles
4x Smuggler's Copter
Planeswalkers
2x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Sorceries
4x Lingering Souls
4x Sram's Expertise
3x Spectral Procession
4x Beck//Call
3x Windswept Heath
1x Flooded Strand
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
3x Windbrisk Heights
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Gavony Township
4x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3x Alive//Well
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Lost Legacy
There is a lot of stuff that needs re-working in the list, as it's very much in progress. I think I need to go up to 4 Nissa's, and switch to the other Sorin, or maybe Elspeth or Gideon. Spectral Procession, Smuggler's Copter, and Eternal Witness all probably need to go, and I'm becoming less and less of a fan of Intangible Virtue. Lost Legacy with Birds is awesome, I'd like to add either some Elves of Deep Shadow or Noble Hierarch's to up the consistency of T1 mana dude.
I know some of those suggestions might strike you guys as odd, but the combination of Sram's and Call and Souls obsoletes Procession. It's too much work to get WWW, and at WW2, it's just way worse than Sram's, clogs up the 4 spot, and is redundant. Call casts better off of Windbrisk as well, and at 3 mana, Souls is just a better card. Kambal is amazing. If you haven't tried him, you absolutely should. This guy is severely underrated right now. Dominates the mirror and control decks. Thalis and Alive//Well are bad choices for this deck I've found.
I'm wide open to suggestions and criticisms. The lack of removal so far has only been a problem vs. Merfolk, and there only due to the unblockability provided by Spreading Seas and various Lords. Everyone else you just outcreature with giant tokens. It's important to note that casting "Beck" on it's own is often a pretty good play. If you have even just a BoP or a walker out, it cycles for two mana, if you have more options, you can get 2 or 3 cards out of it pretty easily in this deck. It also works off of your opponents' creatures, which doesn't come up often, but is worth keeping in mind.
EDIT: oh, and the sequence that led to a 24 damage attack on t4 was: T1: BoP. T2: Lingering Souls. T3: Sram's Expertise casting Beck//Call. T4: Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Lingering Virtue. (It would have been for more but I chump blocked a few things/ate removal with some tokens.
Really like the Sram's Expertise + Beck/Call Combo you got there. Do you get to cast both half this way?
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
Yes. It's 4 mana for seven tokens and 4 cards. Crazy good value. You can only cast one half of the card off of Windbrisk Heights though.
The decklist I posted is what I'm using now, and like I said above, it's far from optimal. The mana especially is a huge mess. I'm pretty sure I want to be running at least two Hierarch's in addition to the birds. And it's really three color. Hardcasting either or both halves of Beck//Call does happen, but it's pretty rare. That's also one of the reasons I'm down on Procession in this deck. The mana just doesn't really support it, and if you're cheating it out, Beck//Call beats it handily.
There are a lot of ways to make tokens either (a) more explosive or (b) more value. Problem is either of these things lead to a deck that's inferior at either roles compared to other decks, as well as bringing a myriad of other problems.
For instance, your lack of spot removal basically weakens a lot of your aggro match-ups. Most aggro decks have a way to get around your blockers - burn, trample, island walk, protection, etc.
Beck/Call is a combo card, meaning you essentially can't cast it without either Sram or playing Brain in a Jar. This makes the card extremely inconsistent when you don't draw the other key pieces. Spectral Procession on the other hand will always net you 3 tokens for 3 mana. Of course with your mana base spectral is going to be bad but the question is why you should go outside the BW color in the first place.
Kambal is really bad. Not much to say here. He is bad outside of Burn and even there, he maybe saves you 3-6 life at the most as he is just additional bolt and searing blaze target.
I'm thinking of jamming 4 Winding Constrictor and a couple Hardened Scales in the same sort of shell. I agree that Spectral Procession is too hard to cast in a deck with three colors and 4 Gavony Township.
That said, I don't think this is really BW Tokens, so I'm not sure this is the right place to hash it out.
The deck by Nass is good it has its own niche by going faster than bw tokens does. Constrictor is probably not where you want to be because the deck is focused on redundant creatures and it is BG in a deck that barely uses black. Hardened scales is a win more card and you have better things to spend mana on.
The list:
4x Lingering Souls
3x Raise the Alarm
4x Spectral Procession
1x Timely Reinforcements
Removal/Disruption
1x Collective Brutality
2x Fatal Push
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Path to Exile
2x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Anguished Unmaking
Anthems
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Leyline of the Meek
3x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4x Concealed Courtyard
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Flooded Strand
3x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
3x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Windbrisk Heights
2x Windswept Heath
2x Ghostly Prison
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Peace
2x Runed Halo
2x Selfless Spirit
2x Stain the Mind
1x Stony Silence
2x Sundering Growth
Round 1: 2-1
vs Collected Werewolves
Very fast and aggro deck. It has a continuous flow of creatures that greatly interact with each other and collected company works great. Also, he played moonmist, which not only improves his creatures but avoids some swings with lifelinked (sorin, solemn visitor) creatures. Won game 1, lost game 2 to a misplay of mine and won game 3 easy.
Sided in: 2ghostly prison and 2selfless spirit
Sided out: 2leyline of the meek, 1anguished unmaking, and 1thoughtseize
Round 2: 2-1
vs 8-rack
WOW! Super close matches! first match we raced ftw and I won with only 1 life remaining (thanks to my maindeck anguished unmaking). Second he landed an ensnaring bridge and killed me with rack effects (even when I played a runed halo naming the rack). Third game I had 2 Stain the mind in hand but he got rid of both before I could play any. kataki, war's wage saved my ass here with damage and slowing down my opponent´s racks. After this match, I think I will replace the stony silence for my second kataki, war's wage. She is much better against 8 rack and lantern and a bit less powerful against affinity, but we already are pretty good there. lingering souls is stellar in this match.
Sided in: 2stain the mind 2runed halo 1kataki, war's wage 2sundering growth
Sided out: 1timely reinforcements 2leyline of the meek 2fatal push 2path to exile
Round 3: 2-0
vs Black Infect
Very poor deck in general but truly painful for us. 2black sun's zenith main and 2 more SB were awful. Luckily I was able to generate waves of tokens and some path to exile to remove his Carnifex demon did the job. Long match but it was under control all the time.
Sided in: 1 pithing needle
Sided out: 1 timely reinforcements
Round 4: 2-0
vs White weenie
The guy had won all his matches overwhelming each opponent so I took the deck more seriously than when he showed it to me before the tournament. Typical WW shell with honor of the pure and some small drops along with spectral procession. The vigilance effect of intangible virtue shines here. I controlled the combats on the ground with soldiers while I smashed in the skies with spirits. Ghostly prison is just NUTS (though I still hate the card for how much it made me suffer sometimes). I think we run similar kind of decks but tokens is just the better one.
Sided in: 2 ghostly prison, 1 sundering growth (didn´t really find a place for the second)
Sided out: 2 leyline of the meek (he also had tokens) and anguished unmaking
CONCLUSIONS
1- I felt leyline of the meek to be too circumstantial and not very efficient. Also, any deck running tokens of some sort will annul the pumping effect and it is a pretty horrible topdeck. I will try to replace them somehow (gideon, ally of zendikar is still too expensive in my opinion so I will wait for that).
2- Kataki, war's wage will be my artifact hate card of choice for my SB. Sure I will miss stony silence sometimes but you always miss some card anyway, and our affinity matchup is good enough (I quit considering tron for my SB anymore).
3- Sundering growth works better IMO than Fragmentize. Instant speed is the key factor, the token is more or less meh, ok. I would have preferred fragmentize against 8-rack, for example, but I think I will hold to the 2 instants for the moment.
4- I will add a third fatal push for the anguished unmaking. Even if the latter saved my ass against 8-rack in Round 2, I find it very circumstantial and I feel fatal push will be relevant more times.
To sum up, very please with the deck, as always. I also realised a couple eldrazi decks in the crowd. Hope I get to fight them next FNM. GO TOKENS!
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
I need some help again, this is my list:
https://deckstats.net/decks/74507/628552-bw-tokens-v2/en
My meta is changing to:
A lot of agroos! Like naya burn, goblins, folk and jeskai
Another relevant decks:
Bant Eldrazi
Infect
RG Titan/Valakut
Uwr control
Affinity
And the more problematic:
2 tron
I'm changing my site for:
- 2 Fulminator Mage
- 1 Zealous Persecution
For
+ 2 Leyline
+ 1 Duress
I need opinions, specially about tron, sounds me a impossible match(fulminator doesn't work)
Another thing you can do is put more hand hate to get rid of their pesky planeswalker and go more aggro that you would normally do. You want them dead as quick as possible before they topdeck something that's gonna ruin your day (Ugin, the Spirit dragon or Oblivion Stone). Pithing Needle really shine here for it gets rid of any planeswalker and most artifact. Pithing an Expedition map is very funny.
With all that being said... that's a lot of cards to consider just to beat one deck, and even with all these the match-up is still "blergh!" at best. Most people will tell you to deal with the fact that this deck is just good at beating us up and focus more on other match-ups.
TL;DR: Try these in high numbers if you absolutely want to beat Tron with B/W Tokens:
-Thoughtseize + Duress to prevent big cards from hitting the field.
-Fulminator Mage + Ghost Quarter to blast the urza lands and slow their plays.
-Pithing Needle + Oblivion Ring + Anguished Unmaking to get the big cards off the field.
-Surgical Extraction to hopefully hit an urza land or Ugin, the Spirit dragon/Oblivion Stone
-A full playset of Raise the Alarm to put a clock as quick as possible on your opponent.
Otherwise, don't bother.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
Ok first off you need Fatal Push in the main, no less than 3 will do. All those aggro decks you listed except Merfolk are very good for you, or should be. Affinity is nearly autowin, Infect and UWx Control are good as well. Bantdrazi is bad, Valakut is bad but depending on board options can be pretty good. Just don't even bother with Tron, you won't win. With that meta don't run Collective Brutality or Auriok main, they're not going to be helpful there. You want at least 6 1cmc discard, at least 7 1cmc removal, and at least 1 Zealous Persecution main.
Elspeth is playable in a Raise the Alarm build but even then, she is not nearly as good as our other 4-drop choices. Pumping one creature for +3/+3 not only makes spot removal better against us but also it's just generally superior to pump the whole team. Her other +1 ability is just simply too low-impact for 4-mana. There is a big difference between a 1/1 and a 2/2 in my experience. I'd rarely feel comfortable tapping out for her.
Gideon Ally of Zendikar is easily as powerful as Sorin. It has a less broken effect (what beats lifegain in a go-wide deck?) but all 3 of its abilities are versatile and generally great. I think a 3 Sorin and 1 Gideon split is great.
Round 1 vs Living End (On the draw)(0-2): Game 1 and two went very good for him. He basically always pulled off a Living End by turn 3 with grave of about 6-7 creatures each time. I got run over game 1, and game two my sideboard didn't show up, however I did not even try to mulligan for it and i should have. Felt like my hand could work out, but I was wrong. I was able to deal with his creatures for longer than on game 1, but he eventually cascaded into another Living End.
Side-in/out: Two of both Nihil Spellbomb and Runed Halo for my playset of Fatal Push. Did not see any of it.
Round 2 vs Esper Thopter foundry (On the draw) (0-2): This one was all my fault, for I simply missed two opportunity for removing very relevant creatures. Along with the infamous Thopter foundry + Sword of the Meeks, he also played only token generators and no creature aside from Emrakul, the Aeons torn and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite which he uses Polymorph to bring out. Pretty fun deck actually, I've been kind of interested to do that myself for a while since I naturally don't run creature main and splashing blue for the 4th turn isn't hard at all. That aside, he got an elesh norn game 1, and game 2 I sided like a donkey and he had time to put enough thopter tokens to before I drew Pithing Needle.
Side-in/out: Two Fragmentize and two Pithing Needle for two Timely reinforcements and two Inquisition of Kozilek. I really don't know what I was thinking. I could have sided some grave hate to get rid of the thopter combo, and I could definitely have kept the inquisitions.
Round 3 vs Naya Burn (2-0): Was actually a fun game for we both had fun "badluck" stories to tell each other. We also had out fair share of bad luck those very games. Game 1 went very well for him, kind of as good as burd can do. He was able to prevent my lifegain with Atarka's command and managed to kill me on turn 4. As for game 2 it got ridiculous. We both got to 8 lands game 2 in an absurd battle of mana flood. My Runed halo managed to redirect his Rift Bolt to his face twice, which we both found very funny. Afterward he managed to get his burn eventually, and I drew 1 Raise the Alarm and 1 Sorin, Solemn visitor for token generators. I think that overall, counting all 6 games I made, I probably generated less than 15 tokens total.
Side-in/out: Two Blessed Alliance, two Runed Halo and two Selfless Spirit for my discard engine. Seen both Runed Halo and one Blessed Alliance, but it ultimately didn't matter.
Sooo, yeah. Kind of a drastic change of pace from last four weeks. kinda feel down a little, but hey. Gotta have those bad games from time to time. If anything it just prompted me to make some changes to my deck. Probably gonna experience with some little changes for a while.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
To be fair living end and thopter combo are very hard match-ups. I always use at least 3 graveyard hate in the side and even then the probability is not in your favor to draw them. Would do a 2 RiP and 1 nihil spellbomb split personally.
Burn is burn. With 4 push, 4 path, 3 shambling,1 vault, and 3 Sorin I find the match-up is fine even just for the main. I like burrenton and selfless spirit replacing 3 BB which protect our shambling vent from bolt and searing blaze.