I like Ulamog as a 1 of. He is kind of an insurance policy. He can clear things from the board that you otherwise couldn't. He wins through infinite life. He wins if you can't exile. This is all at the expense of having him stuck in your hand.
He is kind of like the twin combo (RIP). The threat of him is enough to make people nervous and make misplays.
Even when they don't misplay, we play a long and grindy enough game that he is a tutorable 2 for 1. Sometimes it is enough to just break board parity and let you swing in for lethal. Totally agree with the 1 of and if he were to eventually get banned (totally a reasonable argument because he is busted in Tron), I'd run Kozilek instead to give us the grind option of refilling our hand with gas late game.
I really like the Ulamog one-of, I also like the idea of going down to 1 O-Sower (though I agree they are exceptional in the mirror). I've actually been having a lot of success w/ a singleton displacer and have moved down to two mb stranglers, I have a third in the sb though.
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I really like the Ulamog one-of, I also like the idea of going down to 1 O-Sower (though I agree they are exceptional in the mirror). I've actually been having a lot of success w/ a singleton displacer and have moved down to two mb stranglers, I have a third in the sb though.
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
Oblivion Sower is great in the Mirror but my issues with him now is that between all the MB discard and TKS, he is usually stripped before he can be played. Also if he bricks on the exile (ie he doesn't hit lands) he only does so much against Vault of the Archangel. Reality Smasher on the other hand is very hard to remove profitably and can't be chumped which means they either trade their Reality Smasher for it or you can put them on the clock.
What does everyone think of leyline of sanctity in SB? Crushes burn and the mirror.
Is running 3 in te SB better than 3 rest for the weary? My current meta plays a lot of BW eldrazi.
I see Leylines as a 3-of in the sideboard, and here's why.
Given 3 out of 60 cards, you have a just barely greater than 50% chance to see one in your opening hand of seven or your first mull to six, when considered together. That is, the odds of the first case plus the odds of the second case = 50%. However, Leylines in general are terrible as a draw (and sideboard slots are precious) so 4 seems excessive.
I haven't tried it, but Burn is so bad that I hope somebody does and posts up results.
I don't think our burn matchup is that bad, we can stop them on the ground, have a good bit of early interaction, and have a clock of our own. Depending on your build I don't think it's a match we need to be afraid of, although I'm not sure if it will ever be great either. Hitting a T2 thought-not into a T3 Smasher is likely to win the race just on the back of 2 cards (the dream).
I don't think our burn matchup is that bad, we can stop them on the ground, have a good bit of early interaction, and have a clock of our own. Depending on your build I don't think it's a match we need to be afraid of, although I'm not sure if it will ever be great either. Hitting a T2 thought-not into a T3 Smasher is likely to win the race just on the back of 2 cards (the dream).
I think Leyline is good in other matchups as well though and does have merit. It blanks Liliana's -2 and Ult. Same for Karns + which means he exiles 1 thing and then gets killed most of the time... I like the idea of Leyline but I don't know what on earth I would cut. I could cut both Ratchet Bombs and the Damnation but I feel like I am just asking to walk into Ensnaring Bridges with minimal ways to remove them. Worth a shot though.
Exatraz- are you currently only playing 8 white sources, or am I miscounting?
That is correct. It seems really low when I spread it out but I have had no issues as of yet. The main thing I have noticed is that every white card is just 1 source requirement and it's only 9 spells in the deck (4 Lingering Souls, 4 Path, 1 Sorin). Usually I have at least 1 Cave of Koilos and that seems to work. I almost always fetch my plains on the first Path or GQ of my creatures as well.
Here's what I've been testing lately and its served me the best thus far. I could sure use the advice of the veterans with the deck.
Notable differences are the lack of O-Sower and Ulamog. I just didn't get there enough for it to be worth it. Ulamog was a dead card in my hand far too often and in all of those times I kept wishing he was Liliana of the Veil. All in all I felt like I was hitting 4 or 5 mana a lot, but having a harder time getting to 6.
The sideboard Ratchet Bombs are extra insurance against Bogles which I feel is insanely well positioned right now and I'm surprised its not getting more attention, but it is a player in my local meta. They can also clear Burn's board, eventually hit a leyline, and in our deck is better suited than EE.
Dropped to 1 expedition map because having 2 makes for really slow hands where I spend too much time durdling and not enough time playing threats.
The deck feels like it may be just slightly threat light, and I may want to go up to another Shambling Vent just to help break parity if need be, but liliana does a good job of that.
I love Spatial Contortion. The card is great removal and today it won me a game against scapeshift when I could boost my Reality Smasher to 8 for lethal. Still testing that with Warping Wail as 1-ofs, and I think contortion may win that fight. I really recommend that people try it.
Let me know what you think, please. Thanks to everyone in advance. This is a great thread to read.
M2 vs BWGR “planeswalker” deck – goyf, ajani vengeance, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, snapcaster, remand, Isochron Scepter + Hide/seek *ugh*
M2G1: Can’t remember my hand but I drew nothing but lands while getting beat down by vampire tokens from Sorin and getting my lands tapped down by Ajani. Made a play mistake where I oblivion ringed his ajani and than didn’t process it.
SB IN: +1 All is dust, +1 Duress, +2 Pithing needle, +1 Surgical
SB OUT: -1 Ulamog, -1 Wail, and I think 2 dismember can’t remember the last card
M2G2: I mull to 5. Same as game 1, I Just draw lands. Did manage to play 2 Wastland stranglers but he abrupt decayed them and a pithing needle on ajani. While he exiled my creatures with Isochron Scepter with hide/seek gaining 5-6 life a turn for a couple of turns. He played another isachron scepter with terminate – I managed to play a Blight herder and process them – still to late and he was sitting on +40 life. I got him down to something in the 25~ish before time was called.
Results: 0-1 TIME
Lesson: Sometimes you just get flooded and draw no creatures. I do play too few at 13 and should go up to 15-16 going forward. Would have won game 2 if I had played game one faster and just scooped. Lot of time got wasted from just shuffling my deck after he had IS+SEEK me every turn.
I haven't read it all yet but about Scepter and Hide//Seek. Just remember that you can process the Imprinted card and it won't be imprinted anymore ;-)
Sideboard is constantly adjusting. I am currently thinking of trying 2 Rest for the Weary instead of Damnation and something else so I am more readily prepared for Burn at Regionals. I am also debating adding a GQ and going down to 1 Urborg (and cutting Oblivion Sower completely and going full 4x Reality Smasher). For now I'll diversify my threats so they can't be yanked via Surgical Extraction.
Yeah my list is very similar. How is 24 lands instead of the more common 25 working? Also, any thoughts on MD Surgical Extraction, because I feel like that would be really useful as a 1 of, for me I'd probably go down to 2 Reality Smashers to fit one in.
I feel like Surgical Extraction is useful but Reality Smasher has been an absolute house and there have been a couple games where I had hoped there was more than 2 in the deck. I think the 2 Surgicals in the side should be sufficient enough.
I love Spatial Contortion. The card is great removal and today it won me a game against scapeshift when I could boost my Reality Smasher to 8 for lethal. Still testing that with Warping Wail as 1-ofs, and I think contortion may win that fight. I really recommend that people try it.
Since it is a Shapeshifter, can you cast the 1 part of Nameless Inversion with half of a tapped Temple? Like say for example if you have a Temple, a Swamp, and an Eye on the field, and want to cast Matter Reshaper and Inversion same main phase.
I really like the Ulamog one-of, I also like the idea of going down to 1 O-Sower (though I agree they are exceptional in the mirror). I've actually been having a lot of success w/ a singleton displacer and have moved down to two mb stranglers, I have a third in the sb though.
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
Oblivion Sower is great in the Mirror but my issues with him now is that between all the MB discard and TKS, he is usually stripped before he can be played. Also if he bricks on the exile (ie he doesn't hit lands) he only does so much against Vault of the Archangel. Reality Smasher on the other hand is very hard to remove profitably and can't be chumped which means they either trade their Reality Smasher for it or you can put them on the clock.
Yeah I agree w/ all of this, I think whoever gets off their discard first is also really important in the mirror (which is another strong point for Leyline for anyone who wants to try it). I am happy moving down to one sower but im not sure if i want to get rid of it entirely. Ability aside, having an enormous 5/8 body has been really good for me in in some games.
Separate aside, has anyone done any serious testing w/ Endbringer? He was a card I thought had promise before he was just thoroughly outclassed by Smasher and TKS. I tried him out for a bit and generally he didn't make the cut, but if I were to get rid of the last O-sower I might give it another try. Just to see if the flexibility is worth not doing anything when he etb's in place of O-sower's ramp. Alternatively I could just up my number of another creature but we will see.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
The text states "Changeling: this card is all creature types at all times," though. What is the relevant rule? Anybody know?
[EDIT] I found this, looks to me like it works after all. Interesting trick and opens up some other cards, maybe.
702.72a Changeling is a characteristic-defining ability. “Changeling” means “This object is every creature type.” This ability works everywhere, even outside the game. See rule 604.3.
604.3. Some static abilities are characteristic-defining abilities. A characteristic-defining ability conveys information about an object’s characteristics that would normally be found elsewhere on that object (such as in its mana cost, type line, or power/toughness box) or overrides information found elsewhere on that object. Characteristic-defining abilities function in all zones. They also function outside the game.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
I saw some talk of using the leyline of sanctity and I keep 2 in the side and it usually comes in handy. I do like rest for the weary, but haven't tested it out just yet. I also like the added benefits of being hexproof besides just gaining life.
I've actually been running a singleton Waste in the main over one of my GQs. It's saved my ass a few times now my meta is infested with BM via Delver and Skred.
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Even when they don't misplay, we play a long and grindy enough game that he is a tutorable 2 for 1. Sometimes it is enough to just break board parity and let you swing in for lethal. Totally agree with the 1 of and if he were to eventually get banned (totally a reasonable argument because he is busted in Tron), I'd run Kozilek instead to give us the grind option of refilling our hand with gas late game.
My creature list currently:
-4 Herder
-2 Smasher
-3 TKS
-2 O-Sower
-1 Ulamog
-1 Displacer
-1 Spellskite
-2 Strangler
and souls
There aren't any other eldrazi decks in my meta so I may cut down an o-sower for either a third smasher, a third strangler, or another skite.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Oblivion Sower is great in the Mirror but my issues with him now is that between all the MB discard and TKS, he is usually stripped before he can be played. Also if he bricks on the exile (ie he doesn't hit lands) he only does so much against Vault of the Archangel. Reality Smasher on the other hand is very hard to remove profitably and can't be chumped which means they either trade their Reality Smasher for it or you can put them on the clock.
Given 3 out of 60 cards, you have a just barely greater than 50% chance to see one in your opening hand of seven or your first mull to six, when considered together. That is, the odds of the first case plus the odds of the second case = 50%. However, Leylines in general are terrible as a draw (and sideboard slots are precious) so 4 seems excessive.
I haven't tried it, but Burn is so bad that I hope somebody does and posts up results.
I think Leyline is good in other matchups as well though and does have merit. It blanks Liliana's -2 and Ult. Same for Karns + which means he exiles 1 thing and then gets killed most of the time... I like the idea of Leyline but I don't know what on earth I would cut. I could cut both Ratchet Bombs and the Damnation but I feel like I am just asking to walk into Ensnaring Bridges with minimal ways to remove them. Worth a shot though.
That is correct. It seems really low when I spread it out but I have had no issues as of yet. The main thing I have noticed is that every white card is just 1 source requirement and it's only 9 spells in the deck (4 Lingering Souls, 4 Path, 1 Sorin). Usually I have at least 1 Cave of Koilos and that seems to work. I almost always fetch my plains on the first Path or GQ of my creatures as well.
Notable differences are the lack of O-Sower and Ulamog. I just didn't get there enough for it to be worth it. Ulamog was a dead card in my hand far too often and in all of those times I kept wishing he was Liliana of the Veil. All in all I felt like I was hitting 4 or 5 mana a lot, but having a harder time getting to 6.
The sideboard Ratchet Bombs are extra insurance against Bogles which I feel is insanely well positioned right now and I'm surprised its not getting more attention, but it is a player in my local meta. They can also clear Burn's board, eventually hit a leyline, and in our deck is better suited than EE.
Dropped to 1 expedition map because having 2 makes for really slow hands where I spend too much time durdling and not enough time playing threats.
The deck feels like it may be just slightly threat light, and I may want to go up to another Shambling Vent just to help break parity if need be, but liliana does a good job of that.
I love Spatial Contortion. The card is great removal and today it won me a game against scapeshift when I could boost my Reality Smasher to 8 for lethal. Still testing that with Warping Wail as 1-ofs, and I think contortion may win that fight. I really recommend that people try it.
Let me know what you think, please. Thanks to everyone in advance. This is a great thread to read.
3 Blight Herder
3 Reality Smasher
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Lingering Souls
Disruption
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Path to Exile
Toolbox
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Expedition Map
1 Spellskite
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Warping Wail
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Shambling Vent
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Godless Shrine
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Marsh Flats
1 All Is Dust
2 Stony Silence
1 Rest for the Weary
2 Languish
2 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spellskite
Modern:
EDH:
I haven't read it all yet but about Scepter and Hide//Seek. Just remember that you can process the Imprinted card and it won't be imprinted anymore ;-)
Yeah my list is very similar. How is 24 lands instead of the more common 25 working? Also, any thoughts on MD Surgical Extraction, because I feel like that would be really useful as a 1 of, for me I'd probably go down to 2 Reality Smashers to fit one in.
Yeah I agree w/ all of this, I think whoever gets off their discard first is also really important in the mirror (which is another strong point for Leyline for anyone who wants to try it). I am happy moving down to one sower but im not sure if i want to get rid of it entirely. Ability aside, having an enormous 5/8 body has been really good for me in in some games.
Separate aside, has anyone done any serious testing w/ Endbringer? He was a card I thought had promise before he was just thoroughly outclassed by Smasher and TKS. I tried him out for a bit and generally he didn't make the cut, but if I were to get rid of the last O-sower I might give it another try. Just to see if the flexibility is worth not doing anything when he etb's in place of O-sower's ramp. Alternatively I could just up my number of another creature but we will see.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
[EDIT] I found this, looks to me like it works after all. Interesting trick and opens up some other cards, maybe.
702.72a Changeling is a characteristic-defining ability. “Changeling” means “This object is every creature type.” This ability works everywhere, even outside the game. See rule 604.3.
604.3. Some static abilities are characteristic-defining abilities. A characteristic-defining ability conveys information about an object’s characteristics that would normally be found elsewhere on that object (such as in its mana cost, type line, or power/toughness box) or overrides information found elsewhere on that object. Characteristic-defining abilities function in all zones. They also function outside the game.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.