@mweissm: I am running a single Newlamog and have been considering trying a single Newzilek since I pulled one at the prerelease. In what match-ups have you found Newzilek to be better than Newlamog?
The new kozilek, as newzilek just sounds weird, is great in match ups like burn, where by that point in the game you are dead or exiling 2 creatures when you have spawns or blockers doesn't do a whole lot. Drawing a bunch of 1 mana artifacts or kill spells to pitch for counters is great. Plus you can stop their paths as well. The only thing bad about it is that you don't have any 2 drops to pitch to him but besides that he does some solid work by being reactive as well as proactive (since you can hold kill spells and discard anyway) when the deck needs it.
It is just a 1-1 split right now since frankly its not like you need to draw either.
@mweissm: I am running a single Newlamog and have been considering trying a single Newzilek since I pulled one at the prerelease. In what match-ups have you found Newzilek to be better than Newlamog?
The new kozilek, as newzilek just sounds weird, is great in match ups like burn, where by that point in the game you are dead or exiling 2 creatures when you have spawns or blockers doesn't do a whole lot. Drawing a bunch of 1 mana artifacts or kill spells to pitch for counters is great. Plus you can stop their paths as well. The only thing bad about it is that you don't have any 2 drops to pitch to him but besides that he does some solid work by being reactive as well as proactive (since you can hold kill spells and discard anyway) when the deck needs it.
It is just a 1-1 split right now since frankly its not like you need to draw either.
I just don't think he is good enough. Sure he refills your hand and that's great but he is easy enough to remove and doesn't just outright win you the game. Newlamog does both. He is an auto 2 for 1 and if they don't have a path.. they lose in 2 turns. If Newzilek was Indestructible I'd be for him though. I am kinda sad the new set didn't have a reprint of Inquisition to Newzilek.. $30 uncommon... ouch.
I think fetches come down to how much we want to play around Blood Moon. Since it isn't too prevalent in my meta and doesn't seem like it will be post-ban, I am running without fetches for now.
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Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think fetches come down to how much we want to play around Blood Moon. Since it isn't too prevalent in my meta and doesn't seem like it will be post-ban, I am running without fetches for now.
Honestly, because I am running 2x Expedition Map and 4 basics.. I feel alright about it. Worst case I usually leave a Ghost Quarter open anyway and can blow a land for one. The question becomes... do I run 1 waste. I think I do. My guess is I go 1 Swamp, 2 Plains 1 waste
I'm not liking taplands in this deck, it keeps ruining my turn 1 discard, i think i'll run 0 taplands
I think Bojuka bog can be easily replaced with a non-tap utility land as we got more than enough ways to exile the graveyard of an opponent already in our repertoire. Shizo, Deaths storehouse would be a good one to put in it's place.
I love Bojuka Bog as it gives you an uncounterable way to exile their yard and very rarely has it actually affected my ability to discard T1. I don't think Shizo is good because we have 1 legendary creature and we don't care if he gets blocked.
I don't know what happens, looks like i'm a Bojuka magnet, it keeps coming in my initial hand all the time, so i took off.
I don't know what happens, looks like i'm a Bojuka magnet, it keeps coming in my initial hand all the time, so i took off.
It's fine if it's in my opener usually, I try and lag it out so it hits 1 thing (usually a fetch). If I don't have any other lands I am not keeping the hand anyway. To be fair it's my only CIPT land so generally speaking I have 2 other lands with it and I can stall a turn or so. The main times I have found it extremely nice is late game when I either haven't been riding relic all game or was forced to crack it digging for gas or lands. It's helped me turn on my Blight Herders when I can't seem to draw anything else. I think it'll be more relevant when I cut down the number of Oblivion Sowers to 2 as well. Currently I have games where they come in pairs and I suspect that will happen less now and I want to have the option to turn on the processors. Another example of when it has been great was against Affinity I had a T1 Godless Shrine -> Expedition Map T2 Eldrazi Temple -> EOT Crack map and find bojuka bog T3 Play the Bog and follow it up with a Strangler (he had Thoughtseized me T1) to kill Etched Champion. Because he didn't anticipate me being able to utilize the Wasteland Strangler, he set himself up to be blown out unknowingly.
Hey everyone. I've been messing with this deck more and more and I'm starting to really enjoy playing it. I'm curious about the post-OGW versions. Is there a reason to buy Marsh Flats? Or is Caves of Koilos actually better here?
Fetches are pricy for a reason. They are deceptively good in a deck. The question I would be asking is would you be happy with Caves of Koilos as your only colored mana source on the board? Caves is a "tri-land" in this deck, but at a price. Those pings will add up. That being said I am playing 4x Marsh Flats and the reason I am doing so is I want to be able to grab the lands I want when I want and paying 1 life to get access to any colored source you need is very good and is better, in my mind, than paying 1 life over and over again. On top of that the deck thinning is very important as well. It raises your chances, even if small, of drawing cards that are useful rather than just top decking lands you don't need.
As other have mentioned it also allows to play around Blood Moon. My colored land base is as follows:
I would like to fit a Cavern of Souls in there as well, but I just don't have room. Maybe for Sea Gate depending on how well that works out. But I see that being a powerhouse lands. I have been very pleased by Vault of the Archangel. With the increased need for C in oath, this easily fills that role but has also just flat won me games.
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I have been thinking about the land base a lot. I agree that fetching a shock-you-once-but-then-pain-free dual, or getting a basic for 1 life instead of 1 land, is where I want to be. Though I sure can't argue with results like Exatraz (in my head it always sounds like Extra-Taz). Nice job, BTW! I too would like to see your whole list.
Here's what I came up with, thinking behind my choices after.
This gives 12 C, 12 B, and 11 W, which is as good as I can do. No tap lands (e.g., Bojuka Bog) because CIPT sucks so bad; also I have 11 exile sources main so Bog is less important, and Vent feels too expensive and easily-killed. No filter lands like Fetid Heath because I don't want to be locked out of colors [EDIT: I added Heath back in, ha] or to have to mulligan more than necessary. Although that might be a swap-out for the Wastes down the road, because any hand I would mulligan for a Heath would also get mulled for a Wastes.
The Shrine/Flats balance is 2-3 to fetch the land I need. I definitely want to have reasonably good odds of getting a Shrine online early, because a few times Caves has dinged me more than I felt comfortable with. I also want to be able to fetch basics to combat Blood Moon or Tectonic Edge. I wish a fetch would get the Wastes, but oh well. Plains are duals under Urborg, and I definitely need one vs. Blood Moon (Disenchant, Path, Souls, Stony, etc.), which is why they are a 2x. Four basics feels right with Path and GQ being used against us.
I don't really like Map, but I am running a 1-of main to find what I need. I was not happy seeing a second Eye in hand, and that happened more than I liked, so two of that now--but I can get it with Map, so it's kind of like 3 for reliability. To make room for the Map I lost one Sower, going to three because he is a little slow and expensive.
I'd also like to say thanks to the forum for sharing your experiences and ideas, and if anyone has feedback on the land list I would love to hear it.
I have been thinking about the land base a lot. I agree that fetching a shock-you-once-but-then-pain-free dual, or getting a basic for 1 life instead of 1 land, is where I want to be. Though I sure can't argue with results like Exatraz (in my head it always sounds like Extra-Taz). Nice job, BTW! I too would like to see your whole list.
Here's what I came up with, thinking behind my choices after.
This gives 12 C, 12 B, and 11 W, which is as good as I can do. No tap lands (e.g., Bojuka Bog) because CIPT sucks so bad; also I have 11 exile sources main so Bog is less important, and Vent feels too expensive and easily-killed. No filter lands like Fetid Heath because I don't want to be locked out of colors, or to have to mulligan more than necessary. Although that might be a swap-out for the Wastes down the road, because any hand I would mulligan for a Heath would also get mulled for a Wastes.
The Shrine/Flats balance is 2-3 to fetch the land I need. I definitely want to have reasonably good odds of getting a Shrine online early, because a few times Caves has dinged me more than I felt comfortable with. I also want to be able to fetch basics to combat Blood Moon or Tectonic Edge. I wish a fetch would get the Wastes, but oh well. Plains are duals under Urborg, and I definitely need one vs. Blood Moon (Disenchant, Path, Souls, Stony, etc.), which is why they are a 2x. Four basics feels right with Path and GQ being used against us.
I don't really like Map, but I am running a 1-of main to find what I need. I was not happy seeing a second Eye in hand, and that happened more than I liked, so two of that now--but I can get it with Map, so it's kind of like 3 for reliability. To make room for the Map I lost one Sower, going to three because he is a little slow and expensive.
I'd also like to say thanks to the forum for sharing your experiences and ideas, and if anyone has feedback on the land list I would love to hear it.
Can u share ur deck, so i can see ur card choices ? But by now i would say, go 25 lands, we are Mid with a "high" cost threats
By the way, I recommend reading the page below. The author gives a thoughtful overview of Eldrazi in the meta and a breakdown of BR vs. BW. This link was posted on the Bx forum.
By the way, I recommend reading the page below. The author gives a thoughtful overview of Eldrazi in the meta and a breakdown of BR vs. BW. This link was posted on the Bx forum.
1 Eldrazi Displacer over 1 Strangler. He seems good w/ Seer and Strangler, but I'm not sure if he is worth a spot, anyone been having success w/ him?
1 New Kozilek in place of either all is dust, a reality smasher, or a Blight herder. I really don't think this guy is needed tbh but I kind of want to try him just because I have 1, in the Bx thread someone was saying he is good against burn but idk. thoughts?
1-2 maps in place of...? I have been opposed to the map plan since I dont really feel we need it in the BW version but w/ seer and smasher our curve moves up and finding eldrazi lands early becomes much more important. I don't really know what I'd take out for them but I'm considering it.
All of these are pretty tentative as I've been liking my list so far. Appreciate any and all feedback you guys want to give.
Playing the Gen 1 pre oath version a lot lately, Im almost positive 4 sower is too much. They are so bad in multiples. Unlike blight herder that you can chain for free. Ive died way too many times with sowers in hand.
So does everyone really hate shambling vents? I know it CIPT, but most of the mtggoldfish lists are running some number. I like the utility of a lifelink man land, tho I haven't gotten to test much yet
So does everyone really hate shambling vents? I know it CIPT, but most of the mtggoldfish lists are running some number. I like the utility of a lifelink man land, tho I haven't gotten to test much yet
In general if this deck get to mid game we are going to win. Shambling Vents does not end games, but helps to stabilize somewhat if you life total is low. That being said, against fast decks it is too slow to make a difference, against midrange decks we just get bigger than them. Against Tron, they just don't care about a few bits of life gain, they do play Nature's Claim.
The one deck where I can see Vents doing some work is against Scapeshift, assuming they are not running titan. Just up ticking a bit can stifle the kill a bit.
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1 Eldrazi Displacer over 1 Strangler. He seems good w/ Seer and Strangler, but I'm not sure if he is worth a spot, anyone been having success w/ him?
1 New Kozilek in place of either all is dust, a reality smasher, or a Blight herder. I really don't think this guy is needed tbh but I kind of want to try him just because I have 1, in the Bx thread someone was saying he is good against burn but idk. thoughts?
1-2 maps in place of...? I have been opposed to the map plan since I dont really feel we need it in the BW version but w/ seer and smasher our curve moves up and finding eldrazi lands early becomes much more important. I don't really know what I'd take out for them but I'm considering it.
All of these are pretty tentative as I've been liking my list so far. Appreciate any and all feedback you guys want to give.
Regarding New Koz in the Burn match: The idea was that we would use our replenished Expedition Maps and Thoughseizes to counter Bolt etc. I'm not so sure he can come out fast enough to matter, or that the new hand will work out quite so neatly.
Playing the Gen 1 pre oath version a lot lately, Im almost positive 4 sower is too much. They are so bad in multiples. Unlike blight herder that you can chain for free. Ive died way too many times with sowers in hand.
I have moved away from Sower as a four-of for the same reason. Too slow too often. Herder is an absolute all star at any point in the game.
So does everyone really hate shambling vents? I know it CIPT, but most of the mtggoldfish lists are running some number. I like the utility of a lifelink man land, tho I haven't gotten to test much yet
If Vent were a 2/4 or even a 1/4 I would love it. As it is, it's a a minor tempo loss to everything when it's played, and a major tempo loss to Bolt when activated. From where I sit, it looks like maybe a one-of in the list, but certainly not more.
So does everyone really hate shambling vents? I know it CIPT, but most of the mtggoldfish lists are running some number. I like the utility of a lifelink man land, tho I haven't gotten to test much yet
Low Toughness is one thing, doesn't tap for C is an liability too.
This is my current version of my deck, so far it's pretty ok-ish
Here is some theorycraft relevant to all the recent posts about the quality of various cards like Expedition Map, Oblivion Sower, and Shambling Vent. Basically, what I want to say is that the quality of these cards depends on how hard you're trying to midrange versus how hard you're trying to ramp.
To illustrate: people don't really like running Expedition Map because it's so tempo-negative, but they have to because otherwise it's too easy for their hand to get jammed with cards they can't cast. This is particularly bad for 6-drops like Oblivion Sower, because even with one sol land, you will very often miss your fifth land drop and thereby be unable to cast it.
Before Thought-Knot Seer was printed, trying to go "low enough" to get around this was hopeless because there just weren't enough cheap Eldrazi worth running, but I think now we can actually try. Just don't run Oblivion Sower or Reality Smasher. The curve ends at 4 Blight Herder, and everything else is cheaper. You can run an Ulamog as an Eye target because it's actually good as a random save-my-ass card, but otherwise, don't bother. The deck I've been testing with some success is
With this creature suite, you don't have to play Map because you can actually hope to play a fair, interactive game of Magic even if you fail to draw Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple early on. This deck is completely giving up on the pre-OGW builds' total late game inevitability in exchange for extremely consistent, smooth games where you don't just die early on because you drew too many 5 and 6 drops. You can be more aggressive versus decks like Tron with the Reality Smasher in the sideboard.
Shambling Vent is key in this kind of setup because it's another cheap threat, and the fact that it helps with fixing our already-shaky mana makes it worth the poor rate. People who complain about the stats sucking aren't "midranging hard enough" - any random threat will finish the game once you've grinded your opponent out in the midgame. People forget that Jund never actually had to run 5/8's to close out games, and neither do we. Again, this idea is trading off late game inevitability for a more consistent and resilient early/midgame. Obviously, Vent will disappoint you if you're committed to Sower + Ulamog.
You still have to play at least 25 lands in this deck, and my decklist has 26. After all, even though you're running 7 Ancient Tomb, you're still trying to cast 5 drops off of natural land drops. BW Tokens runs 26, so it's not ridiculous or unheard of. Anyway, making land drops is itself awesome because you have stuff to do with your mana, even with your 6th and 7th land drops. Guaranteeing that you can just naturally Ulamog is sweet. Getting to flash back Lingering Souls alongside casting a freshly drawn Blight Herder is amazing. And so on.
Playing this ultra-fair midrange game is better than just playing Jund/Abzan, because your threat quality is so much better, and you still have the powerful nut draw of TKS into Herder which I'm sure everyone has enjoyed in testing. Also, no one is gunning for it yet, especially in paper. No one is going to give up sideboard space for a deck with literally zero IRL results in weeks 1 or 2 of the new format. Similarly, it is true that this just flat out loses every Eldrazi mirror but it's going to be a negligible part of the metagame early on. When/if Eldrazi becomes recognized as a "real deck", then this version of the deck will become bad.
This version of the deck might already be bad, who knows? But I've liked the consistency so far, and I suggest you at least test it!
I have been thinking about the land base a lot. I agree that fetching a shock-you-once-but-then-pain-free dual, or getting a basic for 1 life instead of 1 land, is where I want to be. Though I sure can't argue with results like Exatraz (in my head it always sounds like Extra-Taz). Nice job, BTW! I too would like to see your whole list.
Here's what I came up with, thinking behind my choices after.
This gives 12 C, 12 B, and 11 W, which is as good as I can do. No tap lands (e.g., Bojuka Bog) because CIPT sucks so bad; also I have 11 exile sources main so Bog is less important, and Vent feels too expensive and easily-killed. No filter lands like Fetid Heath because I don't want to be locked out of colors [EDIT: I added Heath back in, ha] or to have to mulligan more than necessary. Although that might be a swap-out for the Wastes down the road, because any hand I would mulligan for a Heath would also get mulled for a Wastes.
The Shrine/Flats balance is 2-3 to fetch the land I need. I definitely want to have reasonably good odds of getting a Shrine online early, because a few times Caves has dinged me more than I felt comfortable with. I also want to be able to fetch basics to combat Blood Moon or Tectonic Edge. I wish a fetch would get the Wastes, but oh well. Plains are duals under Urborg, and I definitely need one vs. Blood Moon (Disenchant, Path, Souls, Stony, etc.), which is why they are a 2x. Four basics feels right with Path and GQ being used against us.
I don't really like Map, but I am running a 1-of main to find what I need. I was not happy seeing a second Eye in hand, and that happened more than I liked, so two of that now--but I can get it with Map, so it's kind of like 3 for reliability. To make room for the Map I lost one Sower, going to three because he is a little slow and expensive.
I'd also like to say thanks to the forum for sharing your experiences and ideas, and if anyone has feedback on the land list I would love to hear it.
I've had this screenname around the internet since I was like 12 and barely remember how it was formed. I always pronounce in Ex-uh-traz but yeah.. it's very counter-intuitive in pronunciation. I understand the pain of having to use Cave of Kolios what feels like too many times but honestly I usually take an average of less than 3 damage a game off of them which makes them more beneficial than a fetch and shock. The MAIN problem I had with fetches (very minor because they are good) is that I'd have hands with like Temple, Marsh Flats, Eye as my lands and T1 thoughtseize and a Lingering Souls or a Path. Because of this, I am FORCED to fetch and shock and TS to ensure I get both colors. Cave of Kolios means I take 1 ping and lose 2 life to TS turn 1 and can hold open Path for minimal damage later. Bear in mind that Urborg makes them swamps as well so they only pain you for white. So far I can only think of 1 game against Merfolk where I didn't draw pain free lands and it was awkward but so far I really can't complain about it. It also decreases the number of games where you have to lead fetch shock for any of our T1 plays. Seeing as 6/11 T1 plays (I am not counting path because you typically don't need to path turn 1) in my deck (4 TS, 1 Inquisition, 4 Relic, 2 Map) are colorless and won't pain me anyway. Sure I can't fetch Basics to help with Blood Moon but worst case, I'll either draw into one or get it with Map.
Here is my decklist mostly from memory. It's going to be changing a bit because of the Bans on Friday and the new cards ofcourse:
Holy s***.. so I was pretty sure that was my decklist as I have had lots of conversations about the quantities with folks and I just now realized I ran all last week with 61 cards. I guess I'll go down to 2 Ghost Quarters because I am at 25 lands and could probably go to 24. Another route is just cutting a spellskite because I was already considering pushing one to the SB and cutting the other on Friday since Twin won't be running around. Additionally I am going to cut Celestial Purge for Flaying Tendrils. I have had Zealous Persecution bail me out a couple times already against affinity and infect. Turn 2 WB isn't as hard now that I am running 8 WB sources MB instead of the 4 I was running previously. You get any one of those and any other mana that taps for color and you are in business. In the end though since I'll have Flaying Tendrils, I'll probably cut it for a Crucible of Worlds.
The new kozilek, as newzilek just sounds weird, is great in match ups like burn, where by that point in the game you are dead or exiling 2 creatures when you have spawns or blockers doesn't do a whole lot. Drawing a bunch of 1 mana artifacts or kill spells to pitch for counters is great. Plus you can stop their paths as well. The only thing bad about it is that you don't have any 2 drops to pitch to him but besides that he does some solid work by being reactive as well as proactive (since you can hold kill spells and discard anyway) when the deck needs it.
It is just a 1-1 split right now since frankly its not like you need to draw either.
I just don't think he is good enough. Sure he refills your hand and that's great but he is easy enough to remove and doesn't just outright win you the game. Newlamog does both. He is an auto 2 for 1 and if they don't have a path.. they lose in 2 turns. If Newzilek was Indestructible I'd be for him though. I am kinda sad the new set didn't have a reprint of Inquisition to Newzilek.. $30 uncommon... ouch.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Honestly, because I am running 2x Expedition Map and 4 basics.. I feel alright about it. Worst case I usually leave a Ghost Quarter open anyway and can blow a land for one. The question becomes... do I run 1 waste. I think I do. My guess is I go 1 Swamp, 2 Plains 1 waste
I don't know what happens, looks like i'm a Bojuka magnet, it keeps coming in my initial hand all the time, so i took off.
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It's fine if it's in my opener usually, I try and lag it out so it hits 1 thing (usually a fetch). If I don't have any other lands I am not keeping the hand anyway. To be fair it's my only CIPT land so generally speaking I have 2 other lands with it and I can stall a turn or so. The main times I have found it extremely nice is late game when I either haven't been riding relic all game or was forced to crack it digging for gas or lands. It's helped me turn on my Blight Herders when I can't seem to draw anything else. I think it'll be more relevant when I cut down the number of Oblivion Sowers to 2 as well. Currently I have games where they come in pairs and I suspect that will happen less now and I want to have the option to turn on the processors. Another example of when it has been great was against Affinity I had a T1 Godless Shrine -> Expedition Map T2 Eldrazi Temple -> EOT Crack map and find bojuka bog T3 Play the Bog and follow it up with a Strangler (he had Thoughtseized me T1) to kill Etched Champion. Because he didn't anticipate me being able to utilize the Wasteland Strangler, he set himself up to be blown out unknowingly.
Fetches are pricy for a reason. They are deceptively good in a deck. The question I would be asking is would you be happy with Caves of Koilos as your only colored mana source on the board? Caves is a "tri-land" in this deck, but at a price. Those pings will add up. That being said I am playing 4x Marsh Flats and the reason I am doing so is I want to be able to grab the lands I want when I want and paying 1 life to get access to any colored source you need is very good and is better, in my mind, than paying 1 life over and over again. On top of that the deck thinning is very important as well. It raises your chances, even if small, of drawing cards that are useful rather than just top decking lands you don't need.
As other have mentioned it also allows to play around Blood Moon. My colored land base is as follows:
2x Godless Shrine
2x Caves of Koilos
2x Swamp
2x Plains
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Ghost Quarter
I would like to fit a Cavern of Souls in there as well, but I just don't have room. Maybe for Sea Gate depending on how well that works out. But I see that being a powerhouse lands. I have been very pleased by Vault of the Archangel. With the increased need for C in oath, this easily fills that role but has also just flat won me games.
Here's what I came up with, thinking behind my choices after.
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Wastes
2x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
1x Swamp
2x Plains
This gives 12 C, 12 B, and 11 W, which is as good as I can do. No tap lands (e.g., Bojuka Bog) because CIPT sucks so bad; also I have 11 exile sources main so Bog is less important, and Vent feels too expensive and easily-killed. No filter lands like Fetid Heath because I don't want to be locked out of colors [EDIT: I added Heath back in, ha] or to have to mulligan more than necessary. Although that might be a swap-out for the Wastes down the road, because any hand I would mulligan for a Heath would also get mulled for a Wastes.
The Shrine/Flats balance is 2-3 to fetch the land I need. I definitely want to have reasonably good odds of getting a Shrine online early, because a few times Caves has dinged me more than I felt comfortable with. I also want to be able to fetch basics to combat Blood Moon or Tectonic Edge. I wish a fetch would get the Wastes, but oh well. Plains are duals under Urborg, and I definitely need one vs. Blood Moon (Disenchant, Path, Souls, Stony, etc.), which is why they are a 2x. Four basics feels right with Path and GQ being used against us.
I don't really like Map, but I am running a 1-of main to find what I need. I was not happy seeing a second Eye in hand, and that happened more than I liked, so two of that now--but I can get it with Map, so it's kind of like 3 for reliability. To make room for the Map I lost one Sower, going to three because he is a little slow and expensive.
I'd also like to say thanks to the forum for sharing your experiences and ideas, and if anyone has feedback on the land list I would love to hear it.
Can u share ur deck, so i can see ur card choices ? But by now i would say, go 25 lands, we are Mid with a "high" cost threats
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I am playing on paper a lot and don't have the Oath cards yet (obviously). The list will change then, but I'm not sure how much.
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
1x Fetid Heath
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
Creature (13)
4x Blight Herder
3x Oblivion Sower
2x Spellskite
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Go for the Throat
4x Path to Exile
1x Surgical Extraction
Sorcery (9)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
Artifact (7)
1x Expedition Map
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Scrabbling Claws
2x Damnation
2x Disenchant
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Expedition Map
3x Rest for the Weary
2x Stony Silence
3x Surgical Extraction
http://manadeprived.com/return-eldrazi-new-era-modern/
I didn't like his deck at all, R just for 2 creatures MD and some SB, no ty
I still think BW is the best, followed by both monoB (Mid and Heartless)
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RWxBurnRWx
3 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Reality Smasher
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Blight Herder
4 Wasteland Strangler
Spells
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
4 Path to Exile
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Lingering Souls
1 All is Dust
2 Urborg
2 Swamps
3 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Godless Shrine
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Caves of Koilos
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Marsh Flats
SB
Cards I'm thinking of adding:
1 Eldrazi Displacer over 1 Strangler. He seems good w/ Seer and Strangler, but I'm not sure if he is worth a spot, anyone been having success w/ him?
1 New Kozilek in place of either all is dust, a reality smasher, or a Blight herder. I really don't think this guy is needed tbh but I kind of want to try him just because I have 1, in the Bx thread someone was saying he is good against burn but idk. thoughts?
1-2 maps in place of...? I have been opposed to the map plan since I dont really feel we need it in the BW version but w/ seer and smasher our curve moves up and finding eldrazi lands early becomes much more important. I don't really know what I'd take out for them but I'm considering it.
All of these are pretty tentative as I've been liking my list so far. Appreciate any and all feedback you guys want to give.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
In general if this deck get to mid game we are going to win. Shambling Vents does not end games, but helps to stabilize somewhat if you life total is low. That being said, against fast decks it is too slow to make a difference, against midrange decks we just get bigger than them. Against Tron, they just don't care about a few bits of life gain, they do play Nature's Claim.
The one deck where I can see Vents doing some work is against Scapeshift, assuming they are not running titan. Just up ticking a bit can stifle the kill a bit.
I have one Map main, and another in the side.
I have moved away from Sower as a four-of for the same reason. Too slow too often. Herder is an absolute all star at any point in the game.
If Vent were a 2/4 or even a 1/4 I would love it. As it is, it's a a minor tempo loss to everything when it's played, and a major tempo loss to Bolt when activated. From where I sit, it looks like maybe a one-of in the list, but certainly not more.
Low Toughness is one thing, doesn't tap for C is an liability too.
This is my current version of my deck, so far it's pretty ok-ish
3x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
2x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Blight Herder
1x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Oblivion Sower
2x Reality Smasher
2x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x Wasteland Strangler
Sorcery (11)
1x All Is Dust
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
4x Path to Exile
2x Smother
Artifact (4)
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Disenchant
1x Languish
3x Rest for the Weary
2x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Warping Wail
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
To illustrate: people don't really like running Expedition Map because it's so tempo-negative, but they have to because otherwise it's too easy for their hand to get jammed with cards they can't cast. This is particularly bad for 6-drops like Oblivion Sower, because even with one sol land, you will very often miss your fifth land drop and thereby be unable to cast it.
Before Thought-Knot Seer was printed, trying to go "low enough" to get around this was hopeless because there just weren't enough cheap Eldrazi worth running, but I think now we can actually try. Just don't run Oblivion Sower or Reality Smasher. The curve ends at 4 Blight Herder, and everything else is cheaper. You can run an Ulamog as an Eye target because it's actually good as a random save-my-ass card, but otherwise, don't bother. The deck I've been testing with some success is
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb to Yawgmoth
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creatures (19)
4 Lingering Souls
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Blight Herder
2 Spellskite
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Path to Exile
2 Disfigure
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Stony Silence
2 Reality Smasher
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ghost Quarter
With this creature suite, you don't have to play Map because you can actually hope to play a fair, interactive game of Magic even if you fail to draw Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple early on. This deck is completely giving up on the pre-OGW builds' total late game inevitability in exchange for extremely consistent, smooth games where you don't just die early on because you drew too many 5 and 6 drops. You can be more aggressive versus decks like Tron with the Reality Smasher in the sideboard.
Shambling Vent is key in this kind of setup because it's another cheap threat, and the fact that it helps with fixing our already-shaky mana makes it worth the poor rate. People who complain about the stats sucking aren't "midranging hard enough" - any random threat will finish the game once you've grinded your opponent out in the midgame. People forget that Jund never actually had to run 5/8's to close out games, and neither do we. Again, this idea is trading off late game inevitability for a more consistent and resilient early/midgame. Obviously, Vent will disappoint you if you're committed to Sower + Ulamog.
You still have to play at least 25 lands in this deck, and my decklist has 26. After all, even though you're running 7 Ancient Tomb, you're still trying to cast 5 drops off of natural land drops. BW Tokens runs 26, so it's not ridiculous or unheard of. Anyway, making land drops is itself awesome because you have stuff to do with your mana, even with your 6th and 7th land drops. Guaranteeing that you can just naturally Ulamog is sweet. Getting to flash back Lingering Souls alongside casting a freshly drawn Blight Herder is amazing. And so on.
Playing this ultra-fair midrange game is better than just playing Jund/Abzan, because your threat quality is so much better, and you still have the powerful nut draw of TKS into Herder which I'm sure everyone has enjoyed in testing. Also, no one is gunning for it yet, especially in paper. No one is going to give up sideboard space for a deck with literally zero IRL results in weeks 1 or 2 of the new format. Similarly, it is true that this just flat out loses every Eldrazi mirror but it's going to be a negligible part of the metagame early on. When/if Eldrazi becomes recognized as a "real deck", then this version of the deck will become bad.
This version of the deck might already be bad, who knows? But I've liked the consistency so far, and I suggest you at least test it!
I've had this screenname around the internet since I was like 12 and barely remember how it was formed. I always pronounce in Ex-uh-traz but yeah.. it's very counter-intuitive in pronunciation. I understand the pain of having to use Cave of Kolios what feels like too many times but honestly I usually take an average of less than 3 damage a game off of them which makes them more beneficial than a fetch and shock. The MAIN problem I had with fetches (very minor because they are good) is that I'd have hands with like Temple, Marsh Flats, Eye as my lands and T1 thoughtseize and a Lingering Souls or a Path. Because of this, I am FORCED to fetch and shock and TS to ensure I get both colors. Cave of Kolios means I take 1 ping and lose 2 life to TS turn 1 and can hold open Path for minimal damage later. Bear in mind that Urborg makes them swamps as well so they only pain you for white. So far I can only think of 1 game against Merfolk where I didn't draw pain free lands and it was awkward but so far I really can't complain about it. It also decreases the number of games where you have to lead fetch shock for any of our T1 plays. Seeing as 6/11 T1 plays (I am not counting path because you typically don't need to path turn 1) in my deck (4 TS, 1 Inquisition, 4 Relic, 2 Map) are colorless and won't pain me anyway. Sure I can't fetch Basics to help with Blood Moon but worst case, I'll either draw into one or get it with Map.
Here is my decklist mostly from memory. It's going to be changing a bit because of the Bans on Friday and the new cards ofcourse:
2x Spellskite
3x Wasteland Strangler
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sorceries(10):
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x All is Dust
4x Path to Exile
2x Go for the Throat
Artifacts(6):
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Exploration Map
Lands(25):
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of the Yawgmoth
4x Cave of Koilos
4x Godless Shrine
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Vault of the Archangel
Holy s***.. so I was pretty sure that was my decklist as I have had lots of conversations about the quantities with folks and I just now realized I ran all last week with 61 cards. I guess I'll go down to 2 Ghost Quarters because I am at 25 lands and could probably go to 24. Another route is just cutting a spellskite because I was already considering pushing one to the SB and cutting the other on Friday since Twin won't be running around. Additionally I am going to cut Celestial Purge for Flaying Tendrils. I have had Zealous Persecution bail me out a couple times already against affinity and infect. Turn 2 WB isn't as hard now that I am running 8 WB sources MB instead of the 4 I was running previously. You get any one of those and any other mana that taps for color and you are in business. In the end though since I'll have Flaying Tendrils, I'll probably cut it for a Crucible of Worlds.