Ew, none of him is helped by our lands. You can only pay 1 to cast him, and his ability isn't activated, so it costs a full 2 lands as well. He is a 4 drop that has very limited use as a 2 drop 2/1 flier since he can't block at all. Really really bad. He's an ACTUAL 4 drop. Not an "eldrazi" 4 drop.
Welcome! Looking forward to hearing your perspective.
Also:
Hahahahahaha....hahaha!
Worth pointing out that the edict is a T3 play at the earliest, though it looked at first to me like you could do it T2. It was very carefully costed I think. As a T3 play, it kinda messes with our curve.
Ya I would agree that previous spoilers have been more relevant. The fact that two mana eldrazi with abilities like this are in this set is very exciting.
Killing Bogles is big, because that match ups is very tough. Something Lili also does, also I'm willing to give up match ups on decks like bogles. It's important to have a game plan but not dedicated cards for decks like that. Weirdly this deck doesn't really care about two drops because of how our lands work we want 3 drops. Unless they print a slightly better two drop then eldrazi mimic, casting off one temple or eye can be really powerful.
I was worried this deck wasn't going to get anything but this week has been great. Cast trigger is insane but can't block probably means we can't play this but it is worth considering. BTW I'm Matt from the open, been very busy, hope I can add to the convo here.
Really appreciate you taking the time to post over here as well, what brought about the addition of Lili MD and SB and how was MD spellskite during your run.
I've been testing quite a bit and a few opinions on some new cards.
Endbringer is too slow and usually just dies before he does anything relevant. We have better cards now, I don't think it earns a slot.
Eldrazi Displacer has been working out very well, I'd keep it as a 2 or 3-of. It's a great body early on that has tons of utility and I love to see it late game. I've used it to dodge removal, I've used it to kill tokens, I've used it to stall creatures, I've used it to prevent myself from getting twin'd, I've used it to nullify an Arcbound Ravager's death ability, I've done it all (Except for blinking a Wasteland Strangler, don't count on it happening).
Reality Smasher is insane beyond belief. Definitely a 4-of. If they don't have leak or cryptic ready, it's insanely hard to 1-for-1. Just watch out for playing into a Lili -2. The card puts a ton of pressure in so many matchups, provides a huge wall against aggressive decks, and forces a 2-for-1 against grindy decks. The fact that it has trample and haste is just oh so much better.
Kozilek, the Great Distortion works well in the sideboard against grindy matchups. Going from 0 to 7 cards is a win con on its own.
Haven't tested it yet, but Thought-Knot Seer seems very good and difficult to get rid of (4 CMC just above Inquisition of Kozilek and 4 toughness just outside of Lightning Bolt). Blinkable with Displacer to hit out more cards. I can definitely see this making Tidehollow Sculler obsolete, and is easily maindeckable. It also permanently exiles cards, meaning we might be able to cut out all the bad exile cards and just leave it at Relics, Paths, and Seers exiling cards for our processors. Maybe even cut down some Relics. This is pretty huge, as we begin making the deck run more smoothly. Everything feeds each other.
Also, thinking about the mirror match, I've been contemplating Fulminator Mage. Doesn't get you behind on land drops like Ghost Quarter does. The casting cost of course isn't the easiest thing. But the mirror is definitely about who can land threats first.
EDIT: Ruling question. If we blink Seer with Displacer, do they draw a card or do we look at their hand first? How do the triggers go on the stack, can we choose the order?
I was worried this deck wasn't going to get anything but this week has been great. Cast trigger is insane but can't block probably means we can't play this but it is worth considering. BTW I'm Matt from the open, been very busy, hope I can add to the convo here.
Really appreciate you taking the time to post over here as well, what brought about the addition of Lili MD and SB and how was MD spellskite during your run.
I saw a league list, and I would shout out the person if I remembered. I'm going to take one sentence right now to say that anyone that had a list on goldfish previous to mine has contributed to my list, I can take little credit for any innovations. The addition of lilli just made a lot of sense to me. It is a little worse then any given single removal or discard spell but she helps back up both those slots. I had two duress sideboard but found lili could take one slot and allow me more flexibility in more match ups. Spellskite is fills a similar role in that it is a flexible card that is doesn't necessarily help your primary game plan but is good in plenty of match ups. Going forward that slot will likely be going to one of these new eldrazi.
We might get to a point where there are too many payables! I really like that 5/5 guy. Hard threat to handle. The caverns might be better suited for that game plan. Uncounterable and removal resistant? Yikes.
I currently can't get behind ever needing 4 eyes but it is certainly possible with 3 likley being the correct number. I think your numbers are raw partially because everything is new and you are looking to jam a bunch into your list. I don't like caves in today's world but seems good if we need enough lands that produce actual colourless and both colours of mana. I'm not a fan of main deck surgical and exirpate but I get why you want them there, I personally wouldn't run any main. I don't think you need a third basic plains and I like 25 lands, especially if Ulamog is staying in the 75. Good first crack though. I can't wait for the full set and the b and r announcement.
I don't think you need to go up to four. You should play two maps though. And the full set of the sowers. I'm never sad to draw one of those. So good. I wouldn't pay the sac Eldrazi either.
Thanks for all the immediate feedback! This is a very raw list based solely on some goldfishing w/ proxies of the new cards (-thought-knot, I just like him that much).
Ok good, moving up to 3 eyes had been my gut reaction but I wasn't sure now that we have so many more playables. I was unsure about surgical/extirpate. I really like having them md for the linear decks but perhaps a 2 of of Spellskite would be better?
I have been on 3 O-sowers for a while and been liking it. It is certainly a powerful card but (relatively few) initial tests have made me like a single Reality Crusher over a 4th Sower, it's been good enough that I could even see going up on that number.
@ n00b king: After initially being excited I too am unsold on the sac eldrazi, Eye doesn't work w/ his ability so he is realistically a 2/1 4 drop that cant block and doesn't help us against affinity or tron (even if he does edict on cast). I am also however still unsold on map. I think we now have a bigger reason to play it than we did before but I just feel there are so many other things I'd rather be doing w/ the turn/mana I'd use on map.
Last: I tested w/ Endbringer and I don't think we want it. Not because it is bad, we simply have a plethora of better options. It is a testament to how spoiled we are w/ this archetype that a versatile card like Endbringer isn't good enough
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I would take a look at one copy of sea gate wreckage, especially in the decks with expedition map. It can be used as a way to get card advantage in the late game same as eye but you can keep the legendary land count low. The sol land affect from eye might be too important but I haven't play tested the new format and likley won't until we know what is banned or unbanned. On the topic of extirpate and surgical, if you ever get to surgical the card main combo card in a deck like scapeshift for example it looks insane but otherwise the card doesn't do much. I'm closer to the lsv thinking on cards like this and I generally don't ever want to play them, especially not main.
They are good in decks that rely on one or two win cons I guess but really, how many decks are like that? I'm also of the opinion that the deck needs to be threat dense. Let's make it so it's the opponent that needs to find an answer, not the other way around. I'm definitely cutting them. As for the land, I'm not entirely sure about it because in my (albeit short) play testing, I basically never found myself in top deck mode.
All lists run 4x Path, but whether they run Dismember, Slaughter Pact or Go for the Throat all seems to vary and whether there are 1, 2 or 3 addition removal spells in the main.
What have you guys been doing? I am on 2x Dismember because it deal with the vast majority of threats and can be played off of colorless mana if needed.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I would be worried about consistently getting B or W when I needed it with those numbers, especially if you want to play Strangler or Displacer, or even Souls, on-curve. I like the new additions but any feedback I could add on numbers or types would feel like pure speculation to me until I do some testing myself. I feel like the basic shell is still in the development/optimization phase, as noted below.
I don't see how anyone runs with less than 6 exile/cantrip artifacts. I also feel that I need the two Extractions because only 6 yard exilers means I too-frequently don't have early (or, sometimes, late) Process targets. Even with the Extractions I still feel that way sometimes. I cannot understand how anyone is making a deck with 4 Relic but no Claws work well.
Personally I don't think the scrabbling claws are needed. I've just been running the 4 relic of progenitus and been perfectly fine. You only have the 4 herders and 4 stranglers that need a card exiled, and with 4 paths, 4 sowers, and 4 relics, I rarely have trouble getting there. I also run a bog, which I notice you don't run. That makes 13 main deck cards that exile, so I usually have one in time. There have been a few times where I haven't drawn an exiling card, and been forced to hold a herder or strangler, but honestly I think that is not all that bad considering we usually have other stuff to do anyways. Also, I don't really like drawing another relic late game, although at least it replaces itself. It's a tough spot, because you really want to always get one, but once you have one you don't really need more. That's why I prefer 4 to 6.
So, now we have an Eldrazi Charm. Hits a lot of relevant things in Modern(granted, quite a few coming from already good match ups), but I feel it's worth the discussion. Seems pretty good.
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Credit to Ace of Spades Studios for the Sig!
Standard RWUAmerica TempoUWR
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Also:
Hahahahahaha....hahaha!
Worth pointing out that the edict is a T3 play at the earliest, though it looked at first to me like you could do it T2. It was very carefully costed I think. As a T3 play, it kinda messes with our curve.
1. It is kindof a clock vs combo matchups.
2. Killing Bogles!
3. It is so bad in the mirrormatch.
I would avoid.
Really appreciate you taking the time to post over here as well, what brought about the addition of Lili MD and SB and how was MD spellskite during your run.
Endbringer is too slow and usually just dies before he does anything relevant. We have better cards now, I don't think it earns a slot.
Eldrazi Displacer has been working out very well, I'd keep it as a 2 or 3-of. It's a great body early on that has tons of utility and I love to see it late game. I've used it to dodge removal, I've used it to kill tokens, I've used it to stall creatures, I've used it to prevent myself from getting twin'd, I've used it to nullify an Arcbound Ravager's death ability, I've done it all (Except for blinking a Wasteland Strangler, don't count on it happening).
Reality Smasher is insane beyond belief. Definitely a 4-of. If they don't have leak or cryptic ready, it's insanely hard to 1-for-1. Just watch out for playing into a Lili -2. The card puts a ton of pressure in so many matchups, provides a huge wall against aggressive decks, and forces a 2-for-1 against grindy decks. The fact that it has trample and haste is just oh so much better.
Kozilek, the Great Distortion works well in the sideboard against grindy matchups. Going from 0 to 7 cards is a win con on its own.
Haven't tested it yet, but Thought-Knot Seer seems very good and difficult to get rid of (4 CMC just above Inquisition of Kozilek and 4 toughness just outside of Lightning Bolt). Blinkable with Displacer to hit out more cards. I can definitely see this making Tidehollow Sculler obsolete, and is easily maindeckable. It also permanently exiles cards, meaning we might be able to cut out all the bad exile cards and just leave it at Relics, Paths, and Seers exiling cards for our processors. Maybe even cut down some Relics. This is pretty huge, as we begin making the deck run more smoothly. Everything feeds each other.
Also, thinking about the mirror match, I've been contemplating Fulminator Mage. Doesn't get you behind on land drops like Ghost Quarter does. The casting cost of course isn't the easiest thing. But the mirror is definitely about who can land threats first.
EDIT: Ruling question. If we blink Seer with Displacer, do they draw a card or do we look at their hand first? How do the triggers go on the stack, can we choose the order?
I saw a league list, and I would shout out the person if I remembered. I'm going to take one sentence right now to say that anyone that had a list on goldfish previous to mine has contributed to my list, I can take little credit for any innovations. The addition of lilli just made a lot of sense to me. It is a little worse then any given single removal or discard spell but she helps back up both those slots. I had two duress sideboard but found lili could take one slot and allow me more flexibility in more match ups. Spellskite is fills a similar role in that it is a flexible card that is doesn't necessarily help your primary game plan but is good in plenty of match ups. Going forward that slot will likely be going to one of these new eldrazi.
Second, I'm posing up my current tentative decklist post OGW, love to hear feedback from anyone who has a moment.
2 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thought-knot seer
1 Ulamog the Ceaseless hunger
1 Reality Crusher
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Blight Herder
3 Wasteland Strangler
Artifacts:
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtsieze
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 All is dust
4 Lingering Souls
Instant:
4 Path to Exile
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
Lands:
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Caves of Koilos
2 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Plains
2 Swamps
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I currently can't get behind ever needing 4 eyes but it is certainly possible with 3 likley being the correct number. I think your numbers are raw partially because everything is new and you are looking to jam a bunch into your list. I don't like caves in today's world but seems good if we need enough lands that produce actual colourless and both colours of mana. I'm not a fan of main deck surgical and exirpate but I get why you want them there, I personally wouldn't run any main. I don't think you need a third basic plains and I like 25 lands, especially if Ulamog is staying in the 75. Good first crack though. I can't wait for the full set and the b and r announcement.
Ok good, moving up to 3 eyes had been my gut reaction but I wasn't sure now that we have so many more playables. I was unsure about surgical/extirpate. I really like having them md for the linear decks but perhaps a 2 of of Spellskite would be better?
I have been on 3 O-sowers for a while and been liking it. It is certainly a powerful card but (relatively few) initial tests have made me like a single Reality Crusher over a 4th Sower, it's been good enough that I could even see going up on that number.
@ n00b king: After initially being excited I too am unsold on the sac eldrazi, Eye doesn't work w/ his ability so he is realistically a 2/1 4 drop that cant block and doesn't help us against affinity or tron (even if he does edict on cast). I am also however still unsold on map. I think we now have a bigger reason to play it than we did before but I just feel there are so many other things I'd rather be doing w/ the turn/mana I'd use on map.
Last: I tested w/ Endbringer and I don't think we want it. Not because it is bad, we simply have a plethora of better options. It is a testament to how spoiled we are w/ this archetype that a versatile card like Endbringer isn't good enough
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
All lists run 4x Path, but whether they run Dismember, Slaughter Pact or Go for the Throat all seems to vary and whether there are 1, 2 or 3 addition removal spells in the main.
What have you guys been doing? I am on 2x Dismember because it deal with the vast majority of threats and can be played off of colorless mana if needed.
Here is my list of 75:
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
Creature (13)
4x Blight Herder
4x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x Wasteland Strangler
2x Doom Blade
4x Path to Exile
2x Surgical Extraction
Sorcery (9)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
Artifact (6)
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Scrabbling Claws
1x All Is Dust
2x Celestial Purge
1x Damnation
2x Disenchant
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Rest for the Weary
3x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
I am still waffling on Go for the Throat/Doom Blade/Victim of Night/Dismember, though Dismember is the worst in the mirror. I don't own any Slaughter Pacts but I wouldn't run more than one anyway, I think.
So, now we have an Eldrazi Charm. Hits a lot of relevant things in Modern(granted, quite a few coming from already good match ups), but I feel it's worth the discussion. Seems pretty good.
Standard
RWUAmerica TempoUWR
& More...
Modern
URXGrixis/Tarmo/Tempo TwinURX