Another 1 mana Eldrazi? Eldrazi Displacer looks amazing for us. This is a very unique ability and seems to come in to play often, from exiling a splintered Pestermite to reusing our own Wasteland Strangler's this see play.
I can only imagine that mirror matches are going to be this odd land of who has the better draws.
I think it's going to come down to who can drop the first Herder or Sower (i.e. who can ramp into Ulamog the fastest). Though I am toying with the idea of some really corner case Sideboard tech, like Funeral Charm.
I can only imagine that mirror matches are going to be this odd land of who has the better draws.
I think it's going to come down to who can drop the first Herder or Sower (i.e. who can ramp into Ulamog the fastest). Though I am toying with the idea of some really corner case Sideboard tech, like Funeral Charm.
I definately think Sower will probably decide the mirror. Stealing lands and continuing your ramp is huge. Not to mention we all use pretty much the same lands so I can see the person who hits their Sower first gets to Ulamog because their ramp probably gets absurd. I don't think the deck will stick as a large enough part of the meta where we will see mirror matches everywhere after this initial fervor wears off. The appeal of a cheap deck (can be mono colored) that can beat Jund pretty consistently was very appealing to people. I am so glad I picked it up before it spiked. I'd have a hard time dropping $20 a pop for Eyes and $6 a pop for Temples. On the plus side.. spending like $5 on Eyes and $1.50 on Temples.. my deck is already worth far more than the store credit I spent on it.
Ok so it's been a few pages since I've really seen a pretty generic list for this. I'm at work and don't have my decklist in front of me but I'll post it tomorrow. I'm sure it's along the same lines as most of yalls. I am shy a couple Inquisitions but have been running Duress in that slot and for now it seems to be fine (oddly enough I am usually looking for removal and non-creature spells anyway and not having the CMC limit helps.) Occasionally I blank but it hasn't been overly common.
Whenever we do something, we need to know why we're doing it. That being said, I want to have a quick discussion on BW vs BR so that we know why we're sticking with white and what red offers.
Going into red shows payoff in cheap removal. Bolt and Terminate, as well as the standard red sweepers improve matchups against creature-based and aggressive decks. Against Tron and Scapeshift, having access to Crumble and Slaughter Games provide one card answers to our most problematic matchups.
White gives us access to unconditional removal of Path to Exile that also sets up one card in the exile to be processed. White also gives us Lingering Souls for numerous and recurring fliers. In the sideboard we have a lot more artifact/enchantment hate and burn answers, but our options against Tron, Scapeshift, and the likes are more limited. (But we do still have the slightly worse Memoricide)
Just to throw out there but, has leyline of sanctity/void been considered at all? I believe that the LotV interacts quite nicely with Strangler. And the LoS helps quite a bit against matchups that target you such as burn. I guess the issue is if it's not in your opener, any additional copies just clog up the hand.
Just to throw out there but, has leyline of sanctity/void been considered at all? I believe that the LotV interacts quite nicely with Strangler. And the LoS helps quite a bit against matchups that target you such as burn. I guess the issue is if it's not in your opener, any additional copies just clog up the hand.
I think the main problem with both Leylines is as you mention, when they aren't in opening hand they just aren't as good but also if we devote 4x SB slots to get the highest chance of seeing one in opening hand, you have to cut other valuable SB cards that are good in other matchups as well. Something to consider is Chalice of the Void against burn. Chalice on 1 can REALLY hinder them from doing what they need to. We'd still get a T1 discard play and can still Sculler/spellskite to protect it from Destructive Revelry (if they bring it in against us) but you blank a good percentage of their burn spells. Also good against Twin as they will be unable to draw cards via Serum Visions or Thought Scour, cast bolts to try and pressure you and in grixis versions, play their own discard spells (not that we care a ton).
Whenever we do something, we need to know why we're doing it. That being said, I want to have a quick discussion on BW vs BR so that we know why we're sticking with white and what red offers.
Going into red shows payoff in cheap removal. Bolt and Terminate, as well as the standard red sweepers improve matchups against creature-based and aggressive decks. Against Tron and Scapeshift, having access to Crumble and Slaughter Games provide one card answers to our most problematic matchups.
White gives us access to unconditional removal of Path to Exile that also sets up one card in the exile to be processed. White also gives us Lingering Souls for numerous and recurring fliers. In the sideboard we have a lot more artifact/enchantment hate and burn answers, but our options against Tron, Scapeshift, and the likes are more limited. (But we do still have the slightly worse Memoricide)
My reasonings for White over red is totally about card quality. Sure Slaughtergames is uncounterable but if you really want that same effect with Memoricide (which I just noticed got edited in.. so ya got that ;-]). Bolt is decent but Path is a much better removal spell for us because it follows our game plan. Letting our opponent ramp a mana isn't nearly as harmful as it could be if we were playing another deck. I am unsold on Crumble outside of Tron (remember in scapeshift they will need to get one of their "mountains" into play for you to hit it anyway, which means it could be far too late usually. Almost better to hope you hit Valakut off Sower, GQ it and then Surgical Extraction it. I also think the card is just a tad late against Tron. If they natural Tron.. you are still a dead man if you didn't GQ a piece before hand. If you did, Surgical Extraction takes care of it once and for all as well. If we really want to sideboard hate for Tron Lands.. could put in Contaminated Ground or Evil Presence into the SB. White definately helps us shore up many other matchups with great SB cards that the other colors just dont have. That is my $.02 anyway.
I agree that every choice is a renunciation. I think that white has great responses to any threat but they are all very specific to combat something.
I like Slaughter Games against combos like Splinter Twin/Scapeshift because removing those cards will just break their legs and without taking a remand. I think that is very possible to splash 1 Blood Crypt or Sacred Foundry main deck to have it sideboard against those decks.
Against mirror match just try to remove from the game their Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger copies as soon as possible before they can play it. Even if they "assemble" their Eye of Ugin they will not have anything that we can't handle.
I love Kozilek's Return but I don't think It will see or at least will be played at full potential in any list people are playing right now since they are playing only cost 5-6 eldrazis (not counting Ulamog). I'm not saying this card is not good (it's very very good) but needs a proper deck build to use it's full potential.
I agree that every choice is a renunciation. I think that white has great responses to any threat but they are all very specific to combat something.
I like Slaughter Games against combos like Splinter Twin/Scapeshift because removing those cards will just break their legs and without taking a remand. I think that is very possible to splash 1 Blood Crypt or Sacred Foundry main deck to have it sideboard against those decks.
Against mirror match just try to remove from the game their Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger copies as soon as possible before they can play it. Even if they "assemble" their Eye of Ugin they will not have anything that we can't handle.
I love Kozilek's Return but I don't think It will see or at least will be played at full potential in any list people are playing right now since they are playing only cost 5-6 eldrazis (not counting Ulamog). I'm not saying this card is not good (it's very very good) but needs a proper deck build to use it's full potential.
Personally I'd name Oblivion Sower before Ulamog. If you cut them off of a Hard Ramp source like that, you can get to your Newlamog first and then just kill their lands and dreams. I think Kozliek's return isn't better then the black one we are getting for the exact reason you state.. we aren't going to get the second trigger enough I feel (granted it makes casting Newlamog that much more devastating but I don't think it's necessary.
I can only imagine that mirror matches are going to be this odd land of who has the better draws.
I think it's going to come down to who can drop the first Herder or Sower (i.e. who can ramp into Ulamog the fastest). Though I am toying with the idea of some really corner case Sideboard tech, like Funeral Charm.
That's how it felt last night when I happened to run into mtgsalvation user Kevinsera on Cockatrice.
I can only imagine that mirror matches are going to be this odd land of who has the better draws.
I think it's going to come down to who can drop the first Herder or Sower (i.e. who can ramp into Ulamog the fastest). Though I am toying with the idea of some really corner case Sideboard tech, like Funeral Charm.
That's how it felt last night when I happened to run into mtgsalvation user Kevinsera on Cockatrice.
Seriously.. the mirror is really going to be a crapshoot. I don't think it's anything to be worried about just yet though. (ie nothing worth replacing JUST for the mirror)
The good:
-White eldrazi hype
-can come down as early as turn 2
-can protect your other guys from removal, take out the twin combo, stop problem creatures from attacking/blocking, and get repeat usage out of stranglers and scullers
The bad:
-dies to bolt/decay
-depending on when it comes down you may not be able to use its ability right away
-can't protect itself
Conclusion, i do like it, but im not sure where it fits into our deck, or what i'd take out for it. I want to test both but i think you either play this or endbringer as a kind of flex eldrazi 1 of in the md
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Oh man, I just realized. Eldrazi Displacer can also unflip Delvers and stop baby Jace from flipping. Also kills tokens like a Voice or Thragtusk token. Hnnn, it does so much, I love it.
Oh man, I just realized. Eldrazi Displacer can also unflip Delvers and stop baby Jace from flipping. Also kills tokens like a Voice or Thragtusk token. Hnnn, it does so much, I love it.
The good:
-White eldrazi hype
-can come down as early as turn 2
-can protect your other guys from removal, take out the twin combo, stop problem creatures from attacking/blocking, and get repeat usage out of stranglers and scullers
The bad:
-dies to bolt/decay
-depending on when it comes down you may not be able to use its ability right away
-can't protect itself
Conclusion, i do like it, but im not sure where it fits into our deck, or what i'd take out for it. I want to test both but i think you either play this or endbringer as a kind of flex eldrazi 1 of in the md
I think it might be a decent SB card, I am on the downside of it simply because it doesn't do anything immediately like 90% of our deck does. I agree it has potential to be a value town card in certain matchups but essentially it's this or Spellskite in my list and I gotta lean towards spellskite right?
Please change Adarkar Wastes to Caves of Koilos in the primer . Many thanks to you and your assistants for the work setting up this deck for clear analysis and discussion.
New card spoiled, seems we got the short end of the stick. Seems worse than Caves for a pure BW version, but could potentially open up multi-color builds. Seems worse than Cavern of Souls, unfortunately.
I think it's going to come down to who can drop the first Herder or Sower (i.e. who can ramp into Ulamog the fastest). Though I am toying with the idea of some really corner case Sideboard tech, like Funeral Charm.
I definately think Sower will probably decide the mirror. Stealing lands and continuing your ramp is huge. Not to mention we all use pretty much the same lands so I can see the person who hits their Sower first gets to Ulamog because their ramp probably gets absurd. I don't think the deck will stick as a large enough part of the meta where we will see mirror matches everywhere after this initial fervor wears off. The appeal of a cheap deck (can be mono colored) that can beat Jund pretty consistently was very appealing to people. I am so glad I picked it up before it spiked. I'd have a hard time dropping $20 a pop for Eyes and $6 a pop for Temples. On the plus side.. spending like $5 on Eyes and $1.50 on Temples.. my deck is already worth far more than the store credit I spent on it.
Ok so it's been a few pages since I've really seen a pretty generic list for this. I'm at work and don't have my decklist in front of me but I'll post it tomorrow. I'm sure it's along the same lines as most of yalls. I am shy a couple Inquisitions but have been running Duress in that slot and for now it seems to be fine (oddly enough I am usually looking for removal and non-creature spells anyway and not having the CMC limit helps.) Occasionally I blank but it hasn't been overly common.
From the main, Path to Exile and Lingering Souls are lost in exchange for Lightning Bolt and Terminate. In the sideboard, Timely Reinforcements, Disenchant, and Stony Silence are lost in exchange for Kozilek's Return, Crumble to Dust, and Slaughter Games (Note: Not a complete list of possible board cards).
Going into red shows payoff in cheap removal. Bolt and Terminate, as well as the standard red sweepers improve matchups against creature-based and aggressive decks. Against Tron and Scapeshift, having access to Crumble and Slaughter Games provide one card answers to our most problematic matchups.
White gives us access to unconditional removal of Path to Exile that also sets up one card in the exile to be processed. White also gives us Lingering Souls for numerous and recurring fliers. In the sideboard we have a lot more artifact/enchantment hate and burn answers, but our options against Tron, Scapeshift, and the likes are more limited. (But we do still have the slightly worse Memoricide)
As well, each color saw some a new playable card in OGW so far. White seeing Eldrazi Displacer and red seeing Kozilek's Return.
So what do you guys think about all of this?
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
I think the main problem with both Leylines is as you mention, when they aren't in opening hand they just aren't as good but also if we devote 4x SB slots to get the highest chance of seeing one in opening hand, you have to cut other valuable SB cards that are good in other matchups as well. Something to consider is Chalice of the Void against burn. Chalice on 1 can REALLY hinder them from doing what they need to. We'd still get a T1 discard play and can still Sculler/spellskite to protect it from Destructive Revelry (if they bring it in against us) but you blank a good percentage of their burn spells. Also good against Twin as they will be unable to draw cards via Serum Visions or Thought Scour, cast bolts to try and pressure you and in grixis versions, play their own discard spells (not that we care a ton).
My reasonings for White over red is totally about card quality. Sure Slaughtergames is uncounterable but if you really want that same effect with Memoricide (which I just noticed got edited in.. so ya got that ;-]). Bolt is decent but Path is a much better removal spell for us because it follows our game plan. Letting our opponent ramp a mana isn't nearly as harmful as it could be if we were playing another deck. I am unsold on Crumble outside of Tron (remember in scapeshift they will need to get one of their "mountains" into play for you to hit it anyway, which means it could be far too late usually. Almost better to hope you hit Valakut off Sower, GQ it and then Surgical Extraction it. I also think the card is just a tad late against Tron. If they natural Tron.. you are still a dead man if you didn't GQ a piece before hand. If you did, Surgical Extraction takes care of it once and for all as well. If we really want to sideboard hate for Tron Lands.. could put in Contaminated Ground or Evil Presence into the SB. White definately helps us shore up many other matchups with great SB cards that the other colors just dont have. That is my $.02 anyway.
Very astute. The only thing I can think of is that your primary sculler targets are instant speed spells probably (likely removal for your threats).
I like Slaughter Games against combos like Splinter Twin/Scapeshift because removing those cards will just break their legs and without taking a remand. I think that is very possible to splash 1 Blood Crypt or Sacred Foundry main deck to have it sideboard against those decks.
Against mirror match just try to remove from the game their Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger copies as soon as possible before they can play it. Even if they "assemble" their Eye of Ugin they will not have anything that we can't handle.
I love Kozilek's Return but I don't think It will see or at least will be played at full potential in any list people are playing right now since they are playing only cost 5-6 eldrazis (not counting Ulamog). I'm not saying this card is not good (it's very very good) but needs a proper deck build to use it's full potential.
Personally I'd name Oblivion Sower before Ulamog. If you cut them off of a Hard Ramp source like that, you can get to your Newlamog first and then just kill their lands and dreams. I think Kozliek's return isn't better then the black one we are getting for the exact reason you state.. we aren't going to get the second trigger enough I feel (granted it makes casting Newlamog that much more devastating but I don't think it's necessary.
Seriously.. the mirror is really going to be a crapshoot. I don't think it's anything to be worried about just yet though. (ie nothing worth replacing JUST for the mirror)
The good:
-White eldrazi hype
-can come down as early as turn 2
-can protect your other guys from removal, take out the twin combo, stop problem creatures from attacking/blocking, and get repeat usage out of stranglers and scullers
The bad:
-dies to bolt/decay
-depending on when it comes down you may not be able to use its ability right away
-can't protect itself
Conclusion, i do like it, but im not sure where it fits into our deck, or what i'd take out for it. I want to test both but i think you either play this or endbringer as a kind of flex eldrazi 1 of in the md
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I think it might be a decent SB card, I am on the downside of it simply because it doesn't do anything immediately like 90% of our deck does. I agree it has potential to be a value town card in certain matchups but essentially it's this or Spellskite in my list and I gotta lean towards spellskite right?
[EDIT] Whoops, already fixed it.
Corrupted Crossroads