Aegis of the Gods would be easier to cast than true believer if you want to go down that road. But I would only see it as a side against burn or heavy discard.
And then you are just better off with Leyline which I have liked anyway. I don't see a need to have both.
I went 4-1 last night in a field of 39, coming in 4th. In online testing I have had 2 Matter Reshapers replacing one Herder and one Smasher in my build, but I forgot to swap them out in my paper deck so the list was the same as my 2-1-1 list from Monday. The deck list is in my sig for the curious.
2-1 vs. Free Win Red: His deck uses Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, and Ensnaring Bridge to lock down the game until Koth can close it out. Which is what he easily did in G1. In G2-3 I sided in nine (!) cards against him, going into full control mode. In both games I was able to ride out the early game until my single Ratchet Bomb out of the side cleared all of those 3-mana permanents away in one fell swoop. Once the troublesome Bridges and/or Moons were in his yard I was able to Extract them to lock him off his protection. In this match I Path'ed a Spirit token to get my Wastes to cast Smasher FTW.
Blood Moon and Bridge are both very bad news, especially in combination, but his deck has a fatal flaw. He needs to get hellbent to make Bridge keep creatures away from him, especially against an opponent who runs so many 1/1 tokens, like we do. But that means he has to dump all his three-drop control permanents onto the board, making them vulnerable to a single sweeper effect like my Ratchet Bomb. This tension cost him the match against me.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x2, Extraction x3, Ratchet Bomb x1 SIDE OUT: Smasher x4, Sorin x1, Go for the Throat x1.
2-0 vs. Storm: In G1 he lost to his own deck despite me not getting any Relics on board. He Stormed up to 16 on turn 6 but fizzled with an Ascension as the final spell he was able to cast when he tried to go off. I got Past in Flames with a TKS which was a key play. This guy was a terrible Storm player and didn't get out dice or write down any notes about his mana or storm count until I prompted him to do so, and even then he f'ed it up with inaccurate tracking of his play. Irritating. If you're going to play that deck you need to pay careful attention and make sure both players know exactly what is going on with mana and storm count. He was either not willing or not able to do this.
In G2 I expected a Blood Moon and drew an opening hand that held a Wastes, a TKS, a Smasher, and a Relic. This game was a very easy win despite his T3 Moon play.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x2, Extraction x3, Damnation x2, Flaying Tendrils x2, Ratchet Bomb x1 SIDE OUT: Strangler x3, Lingering Souls x4, Sorin x1, Go for the Throat x1, Herder x1
1-2 vs. Jund: In G1 Lili got my hand and Raging Ravine three-turn-clocked me. I won G2 on Souls and 2x TKS. He won G3 again riding Ravine. Honestly this match loss felt like variance despite my opponent being a very good player; I never drew Smasher even once all match, and in both games I lost, a single Ghost Quarter (I run three) would have solved my manland problem. But I didn't get any in those games. I still feel that we are well-favored against this deck. This fella went 5-0 for first.
SIDE IN: Damnation x2, Anguished Unmaking x2 SIDE OUT: Sorin x1, Extraction x1, Herder x2
2-1 vs. 5-Color Domain Zoo: (is what he calls it). Not sure if this was a home-brew but haven't seen it before. He had Goyf, Rhino, Nacatl, and Geist for beaters and played to get three shocks online by T3. The duals powered his Tribal Flames as a 2 CMC five-damage burn spell. My notes for this match are incomplete for G1 but I know he won G2 with Flames for 5 to finish me off the turn before I would have swung in for lethal. In G3 I got him with Smasher after clearing the board with Damnation.
SIDE IN: Damnation x2, Timely Reinforcements x2, Flaying Tendrils x2 SIDE OUT: Herder x4, Unmaking x1, Extraction x1
2-0 vs. Skred Red: This was my first time playing against this deck and it was very easy for me, probably partly due to bad luck on my opponent's part. G1 I got a Smasher out and he had to throw two Bolts at it to remove it, discarding two cards to do so and making it a 4-for-1 trade. In G2 I expected Blood Moon again (third time tonight) and kept an opening seven that had two Marsh Flats. Getting basics was key, and allowed me to Path my own Spirit again to get a Wastes, opening up TKS and Smasher. I was also lucky to kill his Stormbreath Dragon (pro-White) with my one-of Go for the Throat.
I didn't record my side strategy for this match.
Thoughts: I don't know about others' metas, but where I play you have to be ready for Blood Moon. I see it in every tourney. I need colors or colorless--not Red--to cast the large majority of my deck, and I get basics with Marsh Flats, Path on my own tokens, and Ghost Quarters on my own lands. The Flats are a essential part of this strategy and they are the only piece that doesn't use a tool I'd prefer to save for use against opponents. However, when playing against Moon in the absence of a fetch, the right line is usually to get a Plains ASAP for Lingering Souls and Path, which together get you the other basics you need for your bigger creatures. Herder can also get C but is slow and needs exile targets for Processing.
Surgical Extraction is huge for me and I cannot see going below four in the 75. Worst case scenario it feeds Strangler and Herder; middle case it removes opponent's gas from their graveyard; best case it completely disables my opponent's deck. With this functionality, and the ability to cast it for zero mana, it is an absolute house. I would guess it is my most-sided card.
Smasher is the best win con in the deck, but all of the pieces are very strong. The creature base felt so powerful that I am probably not going to run Reshapers after all, despite missing the occasional land drop. Having the creatures be Inquisition-, Bolt-, and Abrupt Decay-proof is enormously advantageous. However I may swap one Herder for a Batterskull, which is vulnerable to K Command but gives vigilance/lifelink and requires no set-up to be good. It might even possibly come out in time to be relevant against Burn, which at this point is looking like it will be my hardest match.
Being able to side in up to four sweepers (2x Damnation and now 2x Tendrils) felt right. Because I have more creature-swarm hate I am going to 2 Rest for the Weary and 1 Timely Reinforcements instead of the other way around, to improve the Burn match. I would like one more Ratchet Bomb in the side as insurance against Blood Moon/Ensnaring Bridge, as well as for any other 0-3 CMC permanents. I could see dropping an Anguished Unmaking for it, but right now I'm not sure if I will try that or not.
I have been playing online on cockatrice a ton. The skill level of the players there varies widely, but I am killing it with this deck online as well as finding success on paper. The deck is a blast and is very powerful. It feels like it has answers in the 75 for most game states. I think it will have legs, and I won't be surprised if I start seeing the mirror more frequently over the summer. I predict it will return to Tier 2 status over the coming year.
In G3 of the Free Win Red match, he played Blood Moon on T1 on the play using SSG and Desperate Ritual. (I thought I was a goner for sure.) Against Magus, Moon, and Bridge, Ratchet Bomb was a complete blowout, though. All three have a CMC of 3 and he had to play them all out (instead of holding some back) in order to prevent me from beating him with my 1/1s under his Bridge. My one Bomb hit probably six of his control pieces--I think it was two Bridge, one Magus, and three Moons. His win con is Koth's ultimate, but he couldn't get there.
Keeping Stranglers vs. Storm is a good idea. I would expect to see Blood Moon against us from that deck since they run basic Islands aplenty as well as Manamorphose.
Surgical Extraction is not a replacement for Relics, it is an addition to them. Modern has accurately been described as a "graveyard-dependent format," which is a major reason why Relic is so good in the first place, processing effects aside. My game plan against combo decks like Living End, Scapeshift, Kiki Chord, etc., is to get a key piece in the graveyard and then Extract all the other copies. I also use it with Ghost Quarter to hit Scapeshift and Tron. It is great against Snapcaster targets, opposing Lingering Souls, in response to a Finks persist trigger, and in all kinds of other situations, even when tapped out. I love the card and my opponents hate it. It is staying for sure as a one main/three side plan for me.
I ran Leyline as a 3-of for Burn for a while but found it too narrow. If it's not in the opener it is near useless. It's also no good against aggro, unlike Timely. Unlike you, I find Rest to be very good against Burn, especially with fetches handy. Burn seems to be my hardest match, in general; if I run a Batterskull it would be in the place of a Herder. Chaplain's Blessing doesn't strike me as a better card than Rest, especially since it is a sorcery.
I will not be removing my wrath effects and would not recommend Timely as a replacement for (instead of as an addition to) such effects. Timely is not going to help you vs. Abzan CoCo or Elves' Ezuri mob, for instance, and it doesn't feed your Stranglers and Herders. (It is a lot easier to cast, though.) I run two Swamps specifically for T1 IoK/Thoughtseize purposes and also to support my BB sweepers from the side. Ratchet Bomb does indeed serve as a decent sweeper. I have been liking it a lot recently. I appreciate being able to get to 3 with it where that was difficult-to-impossible with my previous favorite, Engineered Explosives. EE is much faster though for anything over CMC=0.
How is 8 5 drops working with 24 lands for you ? I personally would drop surgical for 1 more land or surgical and GFTT for 2 Mind stone.
It works but it is close. I definitely want to keep my creature count up because I have had problems before with running out of tools to pressure my opponent. I also feel I need as much targeted removal as I can squeeze in, and maindeck Surgical Extraction acts as a free win often enough that for now I think I'll keep it. I could see adding a one-of Mind Stone in its place, though. I am a big fan of the one-SB-card-in-the-main surprise, especially when (as with Unmaking and Extraction) they turn on a key deck mechanic for me.
I posted a pic of my notepad above. This tourney was the first time I used one that had the land drops notes on it and I wasn't very good about remembering to mark my drops down. But in the matches where I did remember it all worked out OK. I have been mana starved before, but I'm not sure that it's any worse than in other decks I have played.
My whole strategy with this deck is to stall T1-3 and then start to take over on T4+ with huge, problematic creatures. Souls does a good enough job at this that I can often afford to lose a turn here or there because the payoff is so strong. Four Smashers in particular is a huge win con for me. They are SO big and SO fast, and very hard to get rid of, barring sweeper effects. Like Lingering Souls, they are also exponentially better as multiples.
I'm interested in picking up some of the staples required for this deck now that they're a little more reasonable. If I wanted to start playing it, what are the most important parts? I've got BW Tokens, so I've got the manabase, already. I guess I'm asking what the staple cards are. The lists look like they're still solidifying.
Edit: Right now I'm just looking at grabing a playset of Temples and Seer's. Then I'll grab a pair of Smashers, Stranglers and Blightherders next time I have money. Does that make sense?
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Temples and seers are the big ones since I can't see them not being a 4-of regardless of how you build your deck, I would also say x4 PTE is essential. Other than that numbers vary, and strangler and herder will probably stay fairly cheap so you can experiment with numbers at your leisure. If you already have all the pieces of BW tokens you're a good way there. Glad to see more people picking up the deck, it's a good one
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Sweet. That's what I figured. Like I said, I had been looking into the deck pre-eldrazi winter just because this deck and BW Tokens shares so many cards. Thanks for the feedback!
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Westvale Abbey looks very good but I am not so sure it isn't a win-more card. If I added a land and went to 25 that is what I would add. Ghost Quarter is so good for so many situations--like Relic it is just good in general in this format--that I want three maindeck, though. I rely on GQ for Tron and Scapeshift.
Cards listed above that have only a single number given are the ones where I seem to see everyone running the same number, and so I consider those to be standard quantities for the deck.
Westvale Abbey looks very good but I am not so sure it isn't a win-more card.
I totally agree. I haven't used it enough to have a final opinion on Abbey, but from experience I think by the time I could sacrifice 5 creatures and a land and tapping approximately 5 lands to make a big smasher, to close out the game, I would have been better off using the mana to keep the 5 creatures lifelink and deathtouch (Vault of the Archangle) instead of board-wiping myself. In the late-games where I am behind I would rather use the mana to draw an extra card (Sea Gate Wreckage) to help outvalue the opponent.
I also totally agree with your assessment of the core of the deck.
To have the flexibility and given that we have so many lands to tutor for I added two Epedition Map again. Unfortunately, I don't get much time to test but from a few games against CoCo Elves I feel that the Processor/D&T built lacks punch and needs Aether Vial badly. I will go back to processor built. Tidehollow Sculler are mana-hungry. For me, with 11 untapped BW sources, 2 maps and a Shambling Vent they were reliably castable but no game winners. They and two Eldrazi Displacer are the cards I still keep in my processor build.
So this seems like a misinterpretation of what we should use Westvale Abbey for 99% of the time. I typically use it as an EOT Bitterblossom when I have nothing better to do in grindy/control matchups. Flipping it is totally "win more" except in certain situations (like Jund who has next to 0 outs If you sac 5/6 Scion tokens to it) or Burn who just can't come back from the massive life gain if they don't have a skullcrack effect in hand. It can also rarely be used as sweeper protection if you need it. So far I've liked it because of the amount of control in my meta but it's at most a 2x.
I have never removed my Maps and still love them. I've only gotten Temple once as well. Every other time it's been to get the utility land that best suits the situation.
We are a bit of a dog at times to the Aggro decks because even the answers we do have have to be both drawn and cast/used turns 3-4. Sometimes it's just too late. I've even been losing a lot more games to Infect and Affinity than I ever remember doing so before because my luck in drawing things like Lingering Souls has been terrible. Also my lands can't decide how many they want to give me. I've had several instances where I see only 2 lands and then other games that I see all lands... sigh eventually it'll start to even out.
This is my current list. Still getting tweaked here and there as I get a feeling for what works and doesn't. Just went back to 2x Dismember over Anguished Unmaking to see if which one feels better (I've been getting really bad luck with Unmaking in hand and getting killed my man-lands).
Dismember is very good but unlike Unmaking it does not hit Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, or Liliana (or permanents like them). In my opinion a better replacement for that newer card is the one I was running before SOI was released, which is Oblivion Ring.
The exile effects can hit creatures but for me that is a secondary function. Personally, I run one main and a couple side for troubling non-creature permanents.
I think it's worth discussing the core of the deck. I have opted not to go with the Lingering Souls package and shoot for the high end finishers. For me, Kozilek has been a serious workhorse for the deck, and the maindeck Surgical Extraction does an amazing amount of work. Obviously, my version is more grindy midrange than aggro midrange.
I went 3-0-1 last night, coming in 4th in a field of 36. As always, the decklist as played is linked in my sig.
2-0 vs. Infect: This poor fella has a very bad matchup against me, and also had terrible luck. in G1, on T3, I took his Blighted Agent with TKS and then Path’ed his Elf. In G2 he mulled to 4 and didn’t even play a land until T4.
2-0 vs. BUG Control/Superfriends Homebrew: His deck features lots of counterspells, Jace’s, Nissa’s, and I don’t know what-all. I was able to out-control the controller in G1; Sorin closed the deal with me at 51 and him at 4 before he ceded. In G2, he T1 Probed me to see a bunch of Eldrazi and the means to cast them, but I played around the counterspells I assumed he had in hand, and waited for him to tap out to start throwing my Seers and Smashers. I have gotten much, much better at playing around control’s counterspells. Thoughtseize and IoK are key for this purpose, and should be saved until the mid-to-late game if possible in these matches. A favorite play of mine is to Thoughtseize him with the intent of drawing his counterspell out, freeing me to make my important play afterwards. Herder’s on-cast trigger is also amazing, of course.
Neither game was close. Three times in this match he was unable to take a card with IoK, because all I had in hand was lands and big guys.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x1 OUT: Strangler x1
1-1-1 vs. Storm: In G1, I Relic’ed his yard, but he was still able to Storm up to 14 afterwards and then kill me with Goblin Electromancer beats, of all things, after I stalled on mana. In G2 I kept an opener with Flats, Swamp, Plains, Path, Smasher, TKS, and Damnation, knowing I would be able to cast whatever I wanted, even through a Blood Moon. (He later told me he had taken his Moons out of the side before this event.) In this game, he mulled to 5 and never got going; I killed him with 2 TKS backed by Vault of the Archangel. G3 went through turns before we could finish the match, but it could have gone either way, depending on his draws.
2-1 vs. 8Whack: In G1 he flooded in turns 3-6 and my 2 TKS plus a Vault of the Archangel (yes, again) easily sealed the deal. In G2 I was just about to turn the corner, at 6 life, when he double-Bolted me to the face. In G3, Sorin and Herder plus tokens (Scions enabled by Path and TKS, since I’d sided out my Relics) completely took over and he could not keep up. I expected to see Blood Moon in this match but didn’t. I don’t know if he didn’t have it or just didn’t draw it, but I can only assume an optimized Goblins deck will have at least a few somewhere in the 75.
Thoughts: I’m still doing well for now with the high curve, even against fast decks like 8Whack and Storm. I did miss important land drops in G1 of the Storm match, and lost that game in part due to not being able to play my spells, but other than that I was fine. Time will tell if my stalling in the early game is actually as strong as it seems so far, but lots of sweepers and combo hate help enormously with this game plan post-board. Right now I plan to stay at 24 lands and 8 five-drops.
Both Vault and Sorin proved their worth again today; given creatures on my side of the board, these cards can quickly close the game against most opponents. However I am still considering the merits of a single Batterskull in place of a Herder. (Just imagine equipping it to a Spirit token or a Smasher, fer crying out loud!)
Many matches feel highly favorable in Game 1. Overall, I would say the deck seems prepared post-board for really all of the other matchups I have been encountering lately, as well. Prominent decks I haven’t been able to test against with this version of the build include Tron and Burn, however, so I don’t have feedback about those. I would be curious to hear from those who have played similar builds to mine against those opponents, if anyone has this feedback to offer.
Dismember is very good but unlike Unmaking it does not hit Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, or Liliana (or permanents like them). In my opinion a better replacement for that newer card is the one I was running before SOI was released, which is Oblivion Ring.
The exile effects can hit creatures but for me that is a secondary function. Personally, I run one main and a couple side for troubling non-creature permanents.
My problem has been Man Lands though (primarily Inkmoth Nexus) which I can't kill with Oblivion Ring or Unmaking. In the end I'll probably go to a 1-1 split of Dismember and Anguished. It just feels really bad getting blown out by manlands with Unmaking in hand. It's also not the best anti-Blood Moon card because it requires you to have both basics out to cast (unlike Celestial Purge/Disenchant). Honestly I haven't seen Blood Moons running around my meta (only one I've seen was brought in by an affinity player which is something you rarely ever see).
As for control matchups, once you get the feeling for how to steer around it, I really like our matchup. With Cavern of Souls making all our Creatures uncounterable, Discard to hit their counters/make sure the path is clear and lands like Westvale Abbey which forces them to spend cards answering "free" threats. Patience is the key thing against Control (as you demonstrated in your report). They really can't pressure you quickly so you focus on making your land drops and forcing a threat through. I love Blight Herder in the matchup because of it's ability as well as the fact they chain really well. What I mean by that is you put 7 power of dudes on board and start cracking in with your 3 turn clock. Eventually they will be forced to sweep the board at which point you jam another out of hand. Eventually they get to the point where they need "an answer per turn" and will run out. Another thing I love about people trying UWx control is a lot of them are trying to rely on Colonnade as their win-con which is easy to kill and forces them to tap 5 mana. The folks who have more experience with UWx control (ie they have been playing it long before AV unban) are a bit trickier as they run things like Elspeth which can stall our board and provide them with a clock.
EldraziTron is kinda hard, as as you say we are more stalling then putting threats, they are fine with the stall and are putting bigger threats, and it become fast hard to path them all. In those we have to take the aggro side and rush them imo
GR Tron is still an awful matchup and honestly the Eldrazitron is worse. If you can't keep them off tron they start hitting your lands quickly and have an extremely high density of threats. I haven't seen a ton of it around because most folks are testing out UW Gifts Tron so they can play Thopter-sword. Luckily we are really good at that matchup what with 4 MB Relics and such.
Going to a SCG States Championship this weekend, and could use some advice on my decklist so far. Did alright at FNM, but hoping it does well in a larger scale.
I haven't gotten to play against Tron as much as I'd like yet. How valid a gameplan is Ghost Quarter ----> Surgical Extraction ?
It's not great, but it is a plan. SE can hit Karn or another permanent, too, if pulled into the yard with Thoughtseize or TKS-->Strangler. Stony Silence is a good board plan for them. Anguished Unmaking and Path to Exile are keepers but Lingering Souls and Go for the Throat/Dismember should come out.
Going to a SCG States Championship this weekend, and could use some advice on my decklist so far. Did alright at FNM, but hoping it does well in a larger scale.
Looks pretty solid to me, I personally don't like expedition map but I see you're running the land toolbox so they are probably necessary. I might play Flaying Tendrils over languish since it comes down earlier, exiles, and can leave our seers alone late game but I'm not positive about that and I think it depends what you think you'll be up against. If you just want a straight-up sweeper Damnation or Day of Judgement are better. All in all looks like a nice list that can stall w/ early removal until you can start getting your eldrazi out. Good luck!
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
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And then you are just better off with Leyline which I have liked anyway. I don't see a need to have both.
2-1 vs. Free Win Red: His deck uses Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, and Ensnaring Bridge to lock down the game until Koth can close it out. Which is what he easily did in G1. In G2-3 I sided in nine (!) cards against him, going into full control mode. In both games I was able to ride out the early game until my single Ratchet Bomb out of the side cleared all of those 3-mana permanents away in one fell swoop. Once the troublesome Bridges and/or Moons were in his yard I was able to Extract them to lock him off his protection. In this match I Path'ed a Spirit token to get my Wastes to cast Smasher FTW.
Blood Moon and Bridge are both very bad news, especially in combination, but his deck has a fatal flaw. He needs to get hellbent to make Bridge keep creatures away from him, especially against an opponent who runs so many 1/1 tokens, like we do. But that means he has to dump all his three-drop control permanents onto the board, making them vulnerable to a single sweeper effect like my Ratchet Bomb. This tension cost him the match against me.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x2, Extraction x3, Ratchet Bomb x1 SIDE OUT: Smasher x4, Sorin x1, Go for the Throat x1.
2-0 vs. Storm: In G1 he lost to his own deck despite me not getting any Relics on board. He Stormed up to 16 on turn 6 but fizzled with an Ascension as the final spell he was able to cast when he tried to go off. I got Past in Flames with a TKS which was a key play. This guy was a terrible Storm player and didn't get out dice or write down any notes about his mana or storm count until I prompted him to do so, and even then he f'ed it up with inaccurate tracking of his play. Irritating. If you're going to play that deck you need to pay careful attention and make sure both players know exactly what is going on with mana and storm count. He was either not willing or not able to do this.
In G2 I expected a Blood Moon and drew an opening hand that held a Wastes, a TKS, a Smasher, and a Relic. This game was a very easy win despite his T3 Moon play.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x2, Extraction x3, Damnation x2, Flaying Tendrils x2, Ratchet Bomb x1 SIDE OUT: Strangler x3, Lingering Souls x4, Sorin x1, Go for the Throat x1, Herder x1
1-2 vs. Jund: In G1 Lili got my hand and Raging Ravine three-turn-clocked me. I won G2 on Souls and 2x TKS. He won G3 again riding Ravine. Honestly this match loss felt like variance despite my opponent being a very good player; I never drew Smasher even once all match, and in both games I lost, a single Ghost Quarter (I run three) would have solved my manland problem. But I didn't get any in those games. I still feel that we are well-favored against this deck. This fella went 5-0 for first.
SIDE IN: Damnation x2, Anguished Unmaking x2 SIDE OUT: Sorin x1, Extraction x1, Herder x2
2-1 vs. 5-Color Domain Zoo: (is what he calls it). Not sure if this was a home-brew but haven't seen it before. He had Goyf, Rhino, Nacatl, and Geist for beaters and played to get three shocks online by T3. The duals powered his Tribal Flames as a 2 CMC five-damage burn spell. My notes for this match are incomplete for G1 but I know he won G2 with Flames for 5 to finish me off the turn before I would have swung in for lethal. In G3 I got him with Smasher after clearing the board with Damnation.
SIDE IN: Damnation x2, Timely Reinforcements x2, Flaying Tendrils x2 SIDE OUT: Herder x4, Unmaking x1, Extraction x1
2-0 vs. Skred Red: This was my first time playing against this deck and it was very easy for me, probably partly due to bad luck on my opponent's part. G1 I got a Smasher out and he had to throw two Bolts at it to remove it, discarding two cards to do so and making it a 4-for-1 trade. In G2 I expected Blood Moon again (third time tonight) and kept an opening seven that had two Marsh Flats. Getting basics was key, and allowed me to Path my own Spirit again to get a Wastes, opening up TKS and Smasher. I was also lucky to kill his Stormbreath Dragon (pro-White) with my one-of Go for the Throat.
I didn't record my side strategy for this match.
Thoughts: I don't know about others' metas, but where I play you have to be ready for Blood Moon. I see it in every tourney. I need colors or colorless--not Red--to cast the large majority of my deck, and I get basics with Marsh Flats, Path on my own tokens, and Ghost Quarters on my own lands. The Flats are a essential part of this strategy and they are the only piece that doesn't use a tool I'd prefer to save for use against opponents. However, when playing against Moon in the absence of a fetch, the right line is usually to get a Plains ASAP for Lingering Souls and Path, which together get you the other basics you need for your bigger creatures. Herder can also get C but is slow and needs exile targets for Processing.
Surgical Extraction is huge for me and I cannot see going below four in the 75. Worst case scenario it feeds Strangler and Herder; middle case it removes opponent's gas from their graveyard; best case it completely disables my opponent's deck. With this functionality, and the ability to cast it for zero mana, it is an absolute house. I would guess it is my most-sided card.
Smasher is the best win con in the deck, but all of the pieces are very strong. The creature base felt so powerful that I am probably not going to run Reshapers after all, despite missing the occasional land drop. Having the creatures be Inquisition-, Bolt-, and Abrupt Decay-proof is enormously advantageous. However I may swap one Herder for a Batterskull, which is vulnerable to K Command but gives vigilance/lifelink and requires no set-up to be good. It might even possibly come out in time to be relevant against Burn, which at this point is looking like it will be my hardest match.
Being able to side in up to four sweepers (2x Damnation and now 2x Tendrils) felt right. Because I have more creature-swarm hate I am going to 2 Rest for the Weary and 1 Timely Reinforcements instead of the other way around, to improve the Burn match. I would like one more Ratchet Bomb in the side as insurance against Blood Moon/Ensnaring Bridge, as well as for any other 0-3 CMC permanents. I could see dropping an Anguished Unmaking for it, but right now I'm not sure if I will try that or not.
I have been playing online on cockatrice a ton. The skill level of the players there varies widely, but I am killing it with this deck online as well as finding success on paper. The deck is a blast and is very powerful. It feels like it has answers in the 75 for most game states. I think it will have legs, and I won't be surprised if I start seeing the mirror more frequently over the summer. I predict it will return to Tier 2 status over the coming year.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Keeping Stranglers vs. Storm is a good idea. I would expect to see Blood Moon against us from that deck since they run basic Islands aplenty as well as Manamorphose.
Surgical Extraction is not a replacement for Relics, it is an addition to them. Modern has accurately been described as a "graveyard-dependent format," which is a major reason why Relic is so good in the first place, processing effects aside. My game plan against combo decks like Living End, Scapeshift, Kiki Chord, etc., is to get a key piece in the graveyard and then Extract all the other copies. I also use it with Ghost Quarter to hit Scapeshift and Tron. It is great against Snapcaster targets, opposing Lingering Souls, in response to a Finks persist trigger, and in all kinds of other situations, even when tapped out. I love the card and my opponents hate it. It is staying for sure as a one main/three side plan for me.
I ran Leyline as a 3-of for Burn for a while but found it too narrow. If it's not in the opener it is near useless. It's also no good against aggro, unlike Timely. Unlike you, I find Rest to be very good against Burn, especially with fetches handy. Burn seems to be my hardest match, in general; if I run a Batterskull it would be in the place of a Herder. Chaplain's Blessing doesn't strike me as a better card than Rest, especially since it is a sorcery.
I will not be removing my wrath effects and would not recommend Timely as a replacement for (instead of as an addition to) such effects. Timely is not going to help you vs. Abzan CoCo or Elves' Ezuri mob, for instance, and it doesn't feed your Stranglers and Herders. (It is a lot easier to cast, though.) I run two Swamps specifically for T1 IoK/Thoughtseize purposes and also to support my BB sweepers from the side. Ratchet Bomb does indeed serve as a decent sweeper. I have been liking it a lot recently. I appreciate being able to get to 3 with it where that was difficult-to-impossible with my previous favorite, Engineered Explosives. EE is much faster though for anything over CMC=0.
It works but it is close. I definitely want to keep my creature count up because I have had problems before with running out of tools to pressure my opponent. I also feel I need as much targeted removal as I can squeeze in, and maindeck Surgical Extraction acts as a free win often enough that for now I think I'll keep it. I could see adding a one-of Mind Stone in its place, though. I am a big fan of the one-SB-card-in-the-main surprise, especially when (as with Unmaking and Extraction) they turn on a key deck mechanic for me.
I posted a pic of my notepad above. This tourney was the first time I used one that had the land drops notes on it and I wasn't very good about remembering to mark my drops down. But in the matches where I did remember it all worked out OK. I have been mana starved before, but I'm not sure that it's any worse than in other decks I have played.
My whole strategy with this deck is to stall T1-3 and then start to take over on T4+ with huge, problematic creatures. Souls does a good enough job at this that I can often afford to lose a turn here or there because the payoff is so strong. Four Smashers in particular is a huge win con for me. They are SO big and SO fast, and very hard to get rid of, barring sweeper effects. Like Lingering Souls, they are also exponentially better as multiples.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Edit: Right now I'm just looking at grabing a playset of Temples and Seer's. Then I'll grab a pair of Smashers, Stranglers and Blightherders next time I have money. Does that make sense?
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
Here is what I would say is the core of the deck:
LANDS:
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
1-3 Shambling Vent
2-3 Ghost Quarter
2-4 Godless Shrine
0-3 Marsh Flats
0-2 Fetid Heath
~1 of each basic (Wastes, Swamp, Plains)
0-1 Sea Gate Wreckage
0-2 Westvale Abbey
CREATURES:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2-4 Reality Smasher
3-4 Blight Herder
3-4 Wasteland Strangler
0-2 of either Matter Reshaper or Eldrazi Displacer
some people like Tidehollow Sculler too.
SORCERIES:
4 Lingering Souls
2-3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2-3 Thoughtseize
INSTANTS:
4 Path to Exile
1-2 Anguished Unmaking
0-2 Go for the Throat or Dismember
ARTIFACTS:
4 Relic of Progenitus
0-2 Expedition Map
PLANESWALKERS:
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Cards listed above that have only a single number given are the ones where I seem to see everyone running the same number, and so I consider those to be standard quantities for the deck.
So this seems like a misinterpretation of what we should use Westvale Abbey for 99% of the time. I typically use it as an EOT Bitterblossom when I have nothing better to do in grindy/control matchups. Flipping it is totally "win more" except in certain situations (like Jund who has next to 0 outs If you sac 5/6 Scion tokens to it) or Burn who just can't come back from the massive life gain if they don't have a skullcrack effect in hand. It can also rarely be used as sweeper protection if you need it. So far I've liked it because of the amount of control in my meta but it's at most a 2x.
I have never removed my Maps and still love them. I've only gotten Temple once as well. Every other time it's been to get the utility land that best suits the situation.
We are a bit of a dog at times to the Aggro decks because even the answers we do have have to be both drawn and cast/used turns 3-4. Sometimes it's just too late. I've even been losing a lot more games to Infect and Affinity than I ever remember doing so before because my luck in drawing things like Lingering Souls has been terrible. Also my lands can't decide how many they want to give me. I've had several instances where I see only 2 lands and then other games that I see all lands... sigh eventually it'll start to even out.
2x Matter Reshaper
3x Wasteland Strangler
4x Thought-knot Seer
3x Blight Herder
2x Reality Smasher
Sorceries(8):
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
Instants(6):
4x Path to Exile
2x Dismember
Artifacts(6):
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Expedition Map
1x Batterskull
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands(24):
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Cave of Koilos
3x Godless Shrine
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Shambling Vent
2x Westvale Abbey
1x Seagate Wreckage
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Waste
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Damnation
1x Disenchant
This is my current list. Still getting tweaked here and there as I get a feeling for what works and doesn't. Just went back to 2x Dismember over Anguished Unmaking to see if which one feels better (I've been getting really bad luck with Unmaking in hand and getting killed my man-lands).
I think Sorin is pretty core honestly. Batterskull is great but Sorin plays uber well with Blight Herder, Lingering Souls and Westvale Abbey.
The exile effects can hit creatures but for me that is a secondary function. Personally, I run one main and a couple side for troubling non-creature permanents.
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
2x Swamp
2x Thespian's Stage
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Conduit of Ruin
2x Eldrazi Displacer
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1x Oblivion Sower
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x Wasteland Strangler
1x Anguished Unmaking
4x Path to Exile
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Relic of Progenitus
1x Damnation
2x Disenchant
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Lingering Souls
2x Stony Silence
2x Thoughtseize
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Drown in Sorrow
For me, I'd say the core 4x's of the list are:
Path to Exile
Wasteland Strangler
Relic of Progenitus
2-0 vs. Infect: This poor fella has a very bad matchup against me, and also had terrible luck. in G1, on T3, I took his Blighted Agent with TKS and then Path’ed his Elf. In G2 he mulled to 4 and didn’t even play a land until T4.
SIDE IN: Ratchet Bomb x2, Extraction x3, Unmaking x1 OUT: Herder x4, Sorin, Relic x1
2-0 vs. BUG Control/Superfriends Homebrew: His deck features lots of counterspells, Jace’s, Nissa’s, and I don’t know what-all. I was able to out-control the controller in G1; Sorin closed the deal with me at 51 and him at 4 before he ceded. In G2, he T1 Probed me to see a bunch of Eldrazi and the means to cast them, but I played around the counterspells I assumed he had in hand, and waited for him to tap out to start throwing my Seers and Smashers. I have gotten much, much better at playing around control’s counterspells. Thoughtseize and IoK are key for this purpose, and should be saved until the mid-to-late game if possible in these matches. A favorite play of mine is to Thoughtseize him with the intent of drawing his counterspell out, freeing me to make my important play afterwards. Herder’s on-cast trigger is also amazing, of course.
Neither game was close. Three times in this match he was unable to take a card with IoK, because all I had in hand was lands and big guys.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x1 OUT: Strangler x1
1-1-1 vs. Storm: In G1, I Relic’ed his yard, but he was still able to Storm up to 14 afterwards and then kill me with Goblin Electromancer beats, of all things, after I stalled on mana. In G2 I kept an opener with Flats, Swamp, Plains, Path, Smasher, TKS, and Damnation, knowing I would be able to cast whatever I wanted, even through a Blood Moon. (He later told me he had taken his Moons out of the side before this event.) In this game, he mulled to 5 and never got going; I killed him with 2 TKS backed by Vault of the Archangel. G3 went through turns before we could finish the match, but it could have gone either way, depending on his draws.
SIDE IN: Extraction x3, Damnation x2, Tendrils x2, Ratchet Bomb x2, Unmaking OUT: Lingering Souls x4, Herder x4, Sorin, Strangler x1
2-1 vs. 8Whack: In G1 he flooded in turns 3-6 and my 2 TKS plus a Vault of the Archangel (yes, again) easily sealed the deal. In G2 I was just about to turn the corner, at 6 life, when he double-Bolted me to the face. In G3, Sorin and Herder plus tokens (Scions enabled by Path and TKS, since I’d sided out my Relics) completely took over and he could not keep up. I expected to see Blood Moon in this match but didn’t. I don’t know if he didn’t have it or just didn’t draw it, but I can only assume an optimized Goblins deck will have at least a few somewhere in the 75.
SIDE IN: Damnation x2, Tendrils x2, Ratchet Bomb x2 OUT: Relic x4, Unmaking, Lingering Souls x1
Thoughts: I’m still doing well for now with the high curve, even against fast decks like 8Whack and Storm. I did miss important land drops in G1 of the Storm match, and lost that game in part due to not being able to play my spells, but other than that I was fine. Time will tell if my stalling in the early game is actually as strong as it seems so far, but lots of sweepers and combo hate help enormously with this game plan post-board. Right now I plan to stay at 24 lands and 8 five-drops.
Both Vault and Sorin proved their worth again today; given creatures on my side of the board, these cards can quickly close the game against most opponents. However I am still considering the merits of a single Batterskull in place of a Herder. (Just imagine equipping it to a Spirit token or a Smasher, fer crying out loud!)
Many matches feel highly favorable in Game 1. Overall, I would say the deck seems prepared post-board for really all of the other matchups I have been encountering lately, as well. Prominent decks I haven’t been able to test against with this version of the build include Tron and Burn, however, so I don’t have feedback about those. I would be curious to hear from those who have played similar builds to mine against those opponents, if anyone has this feedback to offer.
My problem has been Man Lands though (primarily Inkmoth Nexus) which I can't kill with Oblivion Ring or Unmaking. In the end I'll probably go to a 1-1 split of Dismember and Anguished. It just feels really bad getting blown out by manlands with Unmaking in hand. It's also not the best anti-Blood Moon card because it requires you to have both basics out to cast (unlike Celestial Purge/Disenchant). Honestly I haven't seen Blood Moons running around my meta (only one I've seen was brought in by an affinity player which is something you rarely ever see).
As for control matchups, once you get the feeling for how to steer around it, I really like our matchup. With Cavern of Souls making all our Creatures uncounterable, Discard to hit their counters/make sure the path is clear and lands like Westvale Abbey which forces them to spend cards answering "free" threats. Patience is the key thing against Control (as you demonstrated in your report). They really can't pressure you quickly so you focus on making your land drops and forcing a threat through. I love Blight Herder in the matchup because of it's ability as well as the fact they chain really well. What I mean by that is you put 7 power of dudes on board and start cracking in with your 3 turn clock. Eventually they will be forced to sweep the board at which point you jam another out of hand. Eventually they get to the point where they need "an answer per turn" and will run out. Another thing I love about people trying UWx control is a lot of them are trying to rely on Colonnade as their win-con which is easy to kill and forces them to tap 5 mana. The folks who have more experience with UWx control (ie they have been playing it long before AV unban) are a bit trickier as they run things like Elspeth which can stall our board and provide them with a clock.
GR Tron is still an awful matchup and honestly the Eldrazitron is worse. If you can't keep them off tron they start hitting your lands quickly and have an extremely high density of threats. I haven't seen a ton of it around because most folks are testing out UW Gifts Tron so they can play Thopter-sword. Luckily we are really good at that matchup what with 4 MB Relics and such.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-processor-eldrazi/
Looks pretty solid to me, I personally don't like expedition map but I see you're running the land toolbox so they are probably necessary. I might play Flaying Tendrils over languish since it comes down earlier, exiles, and can leave our seers alone late game but I'm not positive about that and I think it depends what you think you'll be up against. If you just want a straight-up sweeper Damnation or Day of Judgement are better. All in all looks like a nice list that can stall w/ early removal until you can start getting your eldrazi out. Good luck!
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"