I really liked playing 4 of tidehollow sculler before OGW came out when I dropped them. But t2 sculler into t3 strangler is as awesome as you think it is. The spot where I would run scullers is currently 2 md spellskite and 2 md surgical extraction. I like skite as early defense and md hate and I like the extractions to get surprise wins against combo in game 1, get information about the hand, and put lots of cards into exile. Since day 1 of this archetype I have not been a fan of expedition map since I feel we are less reliant on getting particular lands and I would rather draw other things, but I could see a couple md copies if people are going for a land toolbox approach.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Isn't it going to be too hard to cast the 5-drops with only 4 Sol lands instead of 6? I'm a little worried that the curves people are posting are too high.
Isn't it going to be too hard to cast the 5-drops with only 4 Sol lands instead of 6? I'm a little worried that the curves people are posting are too high.
I was just about to ask this. We have 2/3rds as many Sol lands as we used to have yet we're running several times as many 4+ drops as other midrange decks (specifically BGx)are running. The list I'm tweaking has 4 Thought-Knot Seer but only five 5 drops (2-3 split between Smasher and Herder) and I can't see running any more than that. I think we need to be like Pascal Maynard and import some creatures from Death and Taxes lists.
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Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
Would eldrazi displacer be a good fit in this deck even though it's within bolt range since it provides value by itself and with wasteland Strangler and thought knot seer if it doesn't die
Isn't it going to be too hard to cast the 5-drops with only 4 Sol lands instead of 6? I'm a little worried that the curves people are posting are too high.
I was just about to ask this. We have 2/3rds as many Sol lands as we used to have yet we're running several times as many 4+ drops as other midrange decks (specifically BGx)are running. The list I'm tweaking has 4 Thought-Knot Seer but only five 5 drops (2-3 split between Smasher and Herder) and I can't see running any more than that. I think we need to be like Pascal Maynard and import some creatures from Death and Taxes lists.
While I understand the initial reservations... I can say I had no problem casting these 5 CMC creatures in many games before without Eye or Temple in play. Our curve now essentially eliminates Ulamog and Oblivion Sowers (who are not too expensive IMO to play) and makes Blight Herder and Reality Smasher our wincons (I think the correct split/choice is part preference and part meta... I expect to see a lot of control in my meta because it's already been creeping up so I'll use Blight Herder as the primary.)
Would eldrazi displacer be a good fit in this deck even though it's within bolt range since it provides value by itself and with wasteland Strangler and thought knot seer if it doesn't die
I say no. It was good enough before as a pseudo 1cmc creature but a 3cmc creature that requires you to have mana open when you play it doesn't seem like where we want to be at. Focus the early turns on turning on processors/stopping opponents gameplan if they are aggro. Then curve into a threat like Blight Herder and sit on it til someone removes it. I suspect we will see a lot more board clears like Supreme Verdict and Damnation coming up soon so we won't be able to over extend as much as before. Thankfully Westvale Abbey is a good new toy that can help us against any non-PTE type deck.
I think the TKS/Smasher/Herder package works really well. It does not feel to me like the curve is too high, though I can see how some might think it looks that way. Because I had Eye as only a 2-of it did not greatly depower my build to lose it, and in fact having it gone makes the 1-3 mana spells easier to cast.
Urborg should maybe go for a second Swamp or a Fetid Heath. With my list I have only 11 T1 B, but 14 T2 B, and 13 T2 W and C. I frequently spend T1 on a Vent, or getting a shock land on the ground with minimal life loss. Then a good T2 play is both Relic and Thoughtseize, immediately getting Strangler's exile target online.
One of the things I like about this deck is the easy color requirements. With 9 colorless lands in my version, Tidehollow Sculler will be difficult to cast reliably and will increase mulligans. I like it with Strangler but it does stretch the mana base, and probably makes Fetid Heath mandatory as at least a one-of. Just my $.02.
[EDIT] I just want to add that Processors is very well positioned against Ancestral Vision; and with flyers as well as mainboard graveyard hate, plus Stony Silence in the side, we are also strong against Thopter Sword builds. If Thopter Sword pressures aggro to a lower share of the meta, as Reid Duke hypothesizes, that helps us too. Just a few more reasons this deck is looking better and better.
I think the TKS/Smasher/Herder package works really well. It does not feel to me like the curve is too high, though I can see how some might think it looks that way. Because I had Eye as only a 2-of it did not greatly depower my build to lose it, and in fact having it gone makes the 1-3 mana spells easier to cast.
Urborg should maybe go for a second Swamp or a Fetid Heath. With my list I have only 11 T1 B, but 14 T2 B, and 13 T2 W and C. I frequently spend T1 on a Vent, or getting a shock land on the ground with minimal lifeloss.
One of the things I like about this deck is the easy color requirements. With 9 colorless lands in my version, Tidehollow Sculler will be difficult to cast reliably and will increase mulligans. I like it with Strangler but it does stretch the mana base, and probably makes Fetid Heath mandatory as at least a one-of. Just my $.02.
I completely agree with this. I actually had gone all the way down to a 1x Eye when I took my BW list to regionals. I also had a lot of things splashed in that did a lot of work (like Batterskull). We also got a few more good removal spells in Declaration in Stone and Anguished Unmaking. I totally think we are really flexible to whatever meta we find ourselves in. I do think I am going to add some number of Seagate Wreckages to the list to give me some card draw if I get into a topdeck war. This is one of the things I actually like about Westvale Abbey as well. Worst case it becomes a non-flier Bitterblossom late game and can then flip to crack in for a ton.
cards worth considering: Matter reshaper, tidehollow sculler, warping wail. I love warping wail in standard and I think it could find home also in modern
With warping wail it really depends... if Wrath of God effects are running around in everyone's decks (and Crumble to Dust) then it's great. If it's only Supreme Verdict in UWx control shells.. I think it loses a lot of it's value for us.
I am wondering if anyone has considered using Phyrexian Metamorph in this deck? I am not 100% about the interaction between Phyrexian Metamorph and Thought-Knot Seer since Thought-Knots text says "Whenever Thought-Knot Seer enters the battlefield" instead of "As Thought-Knot Seer enters the battlefield". If we can get the enter the battlefield trigger off of Thought-Knot we can clone it for more disruption, clone Reality Smasher for that extra surprise attack, or any other creature or artifact that is on the board besides Blight Herder.
I am wondering if anyone has considered using Phyrexian Metamorph in this deck? I am not 100% about the interaction between Phyrexian Metamorph and Thought-Knot Seer since Thought-Knots text says "Whenever Thought-Knot Seer enters the battlefield" instead of "As Thought-Knot Seer enters the battlefield". If we can get the enter the battlefield trigger off of Thought-Knot we can clone it for more disruption, clone Reality Smasher for that extra surprise attack, or any other creature or artifact that is on the board besides Blight Herder.
This is indeed how it works. However, it cannot trigger on cast effects, since when it was cast it was a Phyrexian Metamorph, but it enters the battlefield as wha ever it copied.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Skites clog up the board against aggro in the early game and provide game 1 md hate against infect/bogles/burn. The md surgicals can steal g1 against combo decks and put a fistful of cards into exile
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I don't think I have seen this brought up. But with SoTM and Foundry, I expect to see black decks playing "Illness in the Ranks"to combat the thopters. Its a card that could be sided in against us as well.But it is also a card we could side in if Foundry becomes more prevalent. What's everyone else's thought on the card? Is it something to be concerned about?
I have thought about adding Red as well. Side note, if you are splashing red.. You'll want Slaughter Games instead of Memorcide. I have been playing a Mardu deck lately and that card does a TON of work (especially in the control mirror where I need answers to counterspells.. we care less about that here). I don't know how I feel about that many fetches though (that become pseudo necessary with that many colors). I still loved my old list that didn't require fetch lands at all.
I don't think I have seen this brought up. But with SoTM and Foundry, I expect to see black decks playing "Illness in the Ranks"to combat the thopters. Its a card that could be sided in against us as well.But it is also a card we could side in if Foundry becomes more prevalent. What's everyone else's thought on the card? Is it something to be concerned about?
If black decks are prevelant.. we likely increase the number of Celestial Purges. The card doesn't feel good to run into but I think it's handleable. The fact we still have 5/5 Tramplers, 4/5's and 4/4's means we are less reliant on our tokens surviving (which is why I flash back Lingering Souls immediately more in this deck than really any other). Worst case Memorcide it out of their hand.
It's also written by someone who never saw post-OGW BW Eldrazi lists because he says "why cast Blight Herder when you can cast Reality Smasher" ignoring that most lists ran both. It also alluded to us still running Oblivion Sower which I had cut from my list a while ago and even more so now that Eye is gone. He further stated that he never thought it was any good to begin with, which is patently false. This list was very good (probably mid-high tier 2 range for non-Eye games which is what we have to go off of). We are a deck that will be able to out grind GBx decks while still being able to have a semi-favorable control matchup based on how many Caverns we want to run (not to mention Blight Herder's cast trigger). If the meta slows down even a little we could easily find an opening to succeed. Add on top of all that we got new toys like Westvale Abbey, Anguished Unmaking and Declaration in Stone that could give us more versatile removal for things that ailed us before (From Blood Moon to Liliana to Ensnaring Bridge). We lost our ultimate top end of tutor for Ulamog but I think that is something we can get over.
Oh, I agree, the Herder/Smasher comment was revealing. They play different roles. Oblivion Sower is not a good choice anymore in my opinion (nor are the other 6-drops), though an 8 butt is pretty strong. Lists that do run Sower would benefit from Urborg as a minimum 2-of to get use out of off-color fetches. Lists that do play Sower might make use of Conduit of Ruin and Ulamog.
I played Ulamog no more than one game in eight, I would guess, and sided it out more than any other card. It served an important function, but I didn't cast it very often, and I sure hated seeing it in my opener.
I am not really feeling Declaration in Stone. Maybe someone could explain it to me? Exiling for 2 CMC is good, but it is sorcery speed. How often is it likely to hit non-token multiples? Seems like that would be pretty rare. Engineered Explosives is much more versatile. And every card Declaration exiles replaces itself for 2.
It's also written by someone who never saw post-OGW BW Eldrazi lists because he says "why cast Blight Herder when you can cast Reality Smasher" ignoring that most lists ran both. It also alluded to us still running Oblivion Sower which I had cut from my list a while ago and even more so now that Eye is gone. He further stated that he never thought it was any good to begin with, which is patently false. This list was very good (probably mid-high tier 2 range for non-Eye games which is what we have to go off of). We are a deck that will be able to out grind GBx decks while still being able to have a semi-favorable control matchup based on how many Caverns we want to run (not to mention Blight Herder's cast trigger). If the meta slows down even a little we could easily find an opening to succeed. Add on top of all that we got new toys like Westvale Abbey, Anguished Unmaking and Declaration in Stone that could give us more versatile removal for things that ailed us before (From Blood Moon to Liliana to Ensnaring Bridge). We lost our ultimate top end of tutor for Ulamog but I think that is something we can get over.
I agree with your sentiment. In that this David Ernenwein is giving a metanalysis in which there is summation and speculate. The Nexus' strengths lay more with the data metaanalysis and addressing metatopics that use specificity rather than speculation indigenous to Magic the Gathering writers. Which is only natural in humans.
Rebuilt the deck, feels clunky. Trying to find some out of the box ideas to lower curve while increasing aggression. Need to look outside of box, otherwise wait until someone else finds a way to balance the force so I can netdeck.
In a way, my current thoughts are a way to exploit the token nature of the deck while increasing the power level of those creatures.
I expect that card and Curse of Death's hold to be auto includes in the sideboard for decks that dont themselves run tokens. I dont think we should play Illness in the ranks instead we go for curse if we want to play such a card.
I'm actually not too worried about Thopter Sword. I've never played it and could certainly be wrong, but with Anguished Unmaking in the main (maybe a 2-of I am thinking) and lots of maindeck graveyard hate that can wipe out Sword of the Meek at instant speed for 1, plus some number of Disenchants or Unmakings in the side, AND Stony Silence if needed, I think we are pretty well positioned already.
Has Anybody tried Orzhov Pontiff?
With all the spirit and scion tokens he is nuts and the -1/-1 can win the game against a lot of decks.
If we add eldrazi displacer to the mix we have a pretty crazy engine.
Westvale abbey also seems like an easy 1-2of in this deck.
Pontiff plus Displacer does seem good, but I'm not sure it is right for this deck. What to cut for it? How many would be needed to make it reliable? Are these cards better than what they would replace?
Westvale Abbey seems like it could be awesome in this build, but for me it's not an auto-include. Color slots are very tight and it would have to replace a colorless utility land. For me that would mean replacing either my Vault of the Archangel or one of my three Ghost Quarters, and all those cards do some serious work for me. GQ plus Surgical Extraction is an integral part of my plans vs. Tron and Scapeshift, for instance, not to mention all the utility it has against all the manlands in the format, Kessig Wolf Run, Gavony Township, gets us basics in response to Blood Moon, surprise-blocks Merfolk, etc.
Oh, I agree, the Herder/Smasher comment was revealing. They play different roles. Oblivion Sower is not a good choice anymore in my opinion (nor are the other 6-drops), though an 8 butt is pretty strong. Lists that do run Sower would benefit from Urborg as a minimum 2-of to get use out of off-color fetches. Lists that do play Sower might make use of Conduit of Ruin and Ulamog.
I played Ulamog no more than one game in eight, I would guess, and sided it out more than any other card. It served an important function, but I didn't cast it very often, and I sure hated seeing it in my opener.
I am not really feeling Declaration in Stone. Maybe someone could explain it to me? Exiling for 2 CMC is good, but it is sorcery speed. How often is it likely to hit non-token multiples? Seems like that would be pretty rare. Engineered Explosives is much more versatile. And every card Declaration exiles replaces itself for 2.
Declaration in Stone hits tokens your opponents control and doesn't give them clues. ;-) it gives us a way to clear token (no matter the size or type). Compare that to EE which hits our things as well. With the potential for Thopter Tokens to be running around everywhere, it gives us a way to clear them for minimal cost.
Edit: The thing to everyone about Abbey.. it's not just about flipping it. It gives you a late game mana sink as well. Just keep popping out 1/1 tokens at EOT like it's your own personal Bitterblossom. Let them win you the game. Occasionally you can flip him if you need the flying or lifelink.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I was just about to ask this. We have 2/3rds as many Sol lands as we used to have yet we're running several times as many 4+ drops as other midrange decks (specifically BGx)are running. The list I'm tweaking has 4 Thought-Knot Seer but only five 5 drops (2-3 split between Smasher and Herder) and I can't see running any more than that. I think we need to be like Pascal Maynard and import some creatures from Death and Taxes lists.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
While I understand the initial reservations... I can say I had no problem casting these 5 CMC creatures in many games before without Eye or Temple in play. Our curve now essentially eliminates Ulamog and Oblivion Sowers (who are not too expensive IMO to play) and makes Blight Herder and Reality Smasher our wincons (I think the correct split/choice is part preference and part meta... I expect to see a lot of control in my meta because it's already been creeping up so I'll use Blight Herder as the primary.)
I say no. It was good enough before as a pseudo 1cmc creature but a 3cmc creature that requires you to have mana open when you play it doesn't seem like where we want to be at. Focus the early turns on turning on processors/stopping opponents gameplan if they are aggro. Then curve into a threat like Blight Herder and sit on it til someone removes it. I suspect we will see a lot more board clears like Supreme Verdict and Damnation coming up soon so we won't be able to over extend as much as before. Thankfully Westvale Abbey is a good new toy that can help us against any non-PTE type deck.
Urborg should maybe go for a second Swamp or a Fetid Heath. With my list I have only 11 T1 B, but 14 T2 B, and 13 T2 W and C. I frequently spend T1 on a Vent, or getting a shock land on the ground with minimal life loss. Then a good T2 play is both Relic and Thoughtseize, immediately getting Strangler's exile target online.
One of the things I like about this deck is the easy color requirements. With 9 colorless lands in my version, Tidehollow Sculler will be difficult to cast reliably and will increase mulligans. I like it with Strangler but it does stretch the mana base, and probably makes Fetid Heath mandatory as at least a one-of. Just my $.02.
[EDIT] I just want to add that Processors is very well positioned against Ancestral Vision; and with flyers as well as mainboard graveyard hate, plus Stony Silence in the side, we are also strong against Thopter Sword builds. If Thopter Sword pressures aggro to a lower share of the meta, as Reid Duke hypothesizes, that helps us too. Just a few more reasons this deck is looking better and better.
I completely agree with this. I actually had gone all the way down to a 1x Eye when I took my BW list to regionals. I also had a lot of things splashed in that did a lot of work (like Batterskull). We also got a few more good removal spells in Declaration in Stone and Anguished Unmaking. I totally think we are really flexible to whatever meta we find ourselves in. I do think I am going to add some number of Seagate Wreckages to the list to give me some card draw if I get into a topdeck war. This is one of the things I actually like about Westvale Abbey as well. Worst case it becomes a non-flier Bitterblossom late game and can then flip to crack in for a ton.
With warping wail it really depends... if Wrath of God effects are running around in everyone's decks (and Crumble to Dust) then it's great. If it's only Supreme Verdict in UWx control shells.. I think it loses a lot of it's value for us.
This is very very rough, but what I was toying with.
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
2 Oblivion Sower
Spells (21)
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Blood Crypt
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Wastes
2 Arid Mesa
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
3 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Marsh Flats
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Rest for the Weary
2 Stony Silence
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Memoricide
2 Oblivion Sower
This is indeed how it works. However, it cannot trigger on cast effects, since when it was cast it was a Phyrexian Metamorph, but it enters the battlefield as wha ever it copied.
4x Wastland Strangler
4x Blight Herder
4x Thought-knot seer
3x Reality Smasher
1x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Spellskite
4x Lingering souls
4x Path to exile
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
4x Marsh Flats
2x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Ghost Quarter
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Swamp
3x Plains
Skites clog up the board against aggro in the early game and provide game 1 md hate against infect/bogles/burn. The md surgicals can steal g1 against combo decks and put a fistful of cards into exile
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I have thought about adding Red as well. Side note, if you are splashing red.. You'll want Slaughter Games instead of Memorcide. I have been playing a Mardu deck lately and that card does a TON of work (especially in the control mirror where I need answers to counterspells.. we care less about that here). I don't know how I feel about that many fetches though (that become pseudo necessary with that many colors). I still loved my old list that didn't require fetch lands at all.
If black decks are prevelant.. we likely increase the number of Celestial Purges. The card doesn't feel good to run into but I think it's handleable. The fact we still have 5/5 Tramplers, 4/5's and 4/4's means we are less reliant on our tokens surviving (which is why I flash back Lingering Souls immediately more in this deck than really any other). Worst case Memorcide it out of their hand.
http://modernnexus.com/spring-has-arrived/
It's also written by someone who never saw post-OGW BW Eldrazi lists because he says "why cast Blight Herder when you can cast Reality Smasher" ignoring that most lists ran both. It also alluded to us still running Oblivion Sower which I had cut from my list a while ago and even more so now that Eye is gone. He further stated that he never thought it was any good to begin with, which is patently false. This list was very good (probably mid-high tier 2 range for non-Eye games which is what we have to go off of). We are a deck that will be able to out grind GBx decks while still being able to have a semi-favorable control matchup based on how many Caverns we want to run (not to mention Blight Herder's cast trigger). If the meta slows down even a little we could easily find an opening to succeed. Add on top of all that we got new toys like Westvale Abbey, Anguished Unmaking and Declaration in Stone that could give us more versatile removal for things that ailed us before (From Blood Moon to Liliana to Ensnaring Bridge). We lost our ultimate top end of tutor for Ulamog but I think that is something we can get over.
I played Ulamog no more than one game in eight, I would guess, and sided it out more than any other card. It served an important function, but I didn't cast it very often, and I sure hated seeing it in my opener.
I am not really feeling Declaration in Stone. Maybe someone could explain it to me? Exiling for 2 CMC is good, but it is sorcery speed. How often is it likely to hit non-token multiples? Seems like that would be pretty rare. Engineered Explosives is much more versatile. And every card Declaration exiles replaces itself for 2.
I agree with your sentiment. In that this David Ernenwein is giving a metanalysis in which there is summation and speculate. The Nexus' strengths lay more with the data metaanalysis and addressing metatopics that use specificity rather than speculation indigenous to Magic the Gathering writers. Which is only natural in humans.
Rebuilt the deck, feels clunky. Trying to find some out of the box ideas to lower curve while increasing aggression. Need to look outside of box, otherwise wait until someone else finds a way to balance the force so I can netdeck.
In a way, my current thoughts are a way to exploit the token nature of the deck while increasing the power level of those creatures.
Anyone try Mirror Entity?
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Pontiff plus Displacer does seem good, but I'm not sure it is right for this deck. What to cut for it? How many would be needed to make it reliable? Are these cards better than what they would replace?
Westvale Abbey seems like it could be awesome in this build, but for me it's not an auto-include. Color slots are very tight and it would have to replace a colorless utility land. For me that would mean replacing either my Vault of the Archangel or one of my three Ghost Quarters, and all those cards do some serious work for me. GQ plus Surgical Extraction is an integral part of my plans vs. Tron and Scapeshift, for instance, not to mention all the utility it has against all the manlands in the format, Kessig Wolf Run, Gavony Township, gets us basics in response to Blood Moon, surprise-blocks Merfolk, etc.
Declaration in Stone hits tokens your opponents control and doesn't give them clues. ;-) it gives us a way to clear token (no matter the size or type). Compare that to EE which hits our things as well. With the potential for Thopter Tokens to be running around everywhere, it gives us a way to clear them for minimal cost.
Edit: The thing to everyone about Abbey.. it's not just about flipping it. It gives you a late game mana sink as well. Just keep popping out 1/1 tokens at EOT like it's your own personal Bitterblossom. Let them win you the game. Occasionally you can flip him if you need the flying or lifelink.