that would probably help. I find non-MTGO online magic just too draining to be effective. for me its really physical cards or nothing. But BfZ hits MTGO this friday correct? so this should probably open up a lot more viable testing for a lot more people.
I just did some testing against burn using a zoo shell. How are you guys finding that matchup? I take way too much damage from my lands to race. (I'm also always testing pre board since I don't have the sideboard yet but game one is tough)
More courser vs. Burn, and finks in the board. HBW is also pretty good (since you can cast him at 4 to go around Eidolon and he wrecks their attack step).
I also run more basics and a canopy vista though so that might color my perceptions.
I think the zoo shell has a bit of a harder match with burn as both the zoo deck and burn are racing each other and zoo has to play loose with its life total to do that. slower builds actually have decent amounts of life gain, be it courser or finks. In the list i posted a few back, running 3 main deck finks, plus resto to rebuy their effects and 2 dromokas command to blank a burn spells makes for what I've felt to be a good burn match-up. And it only gets better from there once you bring in the SB
I think it looks right now Barbe, my one critique would be the number of creatures for collected company. The primers been updated now, so if you look at page 1 of the thread they have a graph showing the math behind CoCo. With only 21 creature you only have a 70% chance of hitting 2 creatures. If you ignore the Heirarch as creatures that are like a miss anyways than it drops to about 50% of hitting anything that will progress your game plan.
That said I really like your creature base, I like the spells, I would just lean more on easy or the other being less coco and more spells/interaction, or drop all spells but the coco, paths and retreats and max out on creatures to make coco more reliable.
Have you had a chance to play test it? How has it felt?
I think it looks right now Barbe, my one critique would be the number of creatures for collected company. The primers been updated now, so if you look at page 1 of the thread they have a graph showing the math behind CoCo. With only 21 creature you only have a 70% chance of hitting 2 creatures. If you ignore the Heirarch as creatures that are like a miss anyways than it drops to about 50% of hitting anything that will progress your game plan.
That said I really like your creature base, I like the spells, I would just lean more on easy or the other being less coco and more spells/interaction, or drop all spells but the coco, paths and retreats and max out on creatures to make coco more reliable.
Have you had a chance to play test it? How has it felt?
Even for the most part in these builds playing 3 Collected Company is more correct than 4. You need the noncreature spells to support Bant colours so going all in on the CC gameplan usually won't give the results you expect it too. Often times 2-3 CC is correct just because you only need to hit a single Knight or Geist to be in great shape. With the aided scry from Retreat you can stack your deck a bit better than normal and dig for these key/swingy creatures.
Cool does it combo off quickly enough and reliably enough, another card to consider is wargate, which will find and put onto the battlefeild both retreat and KotR
@Kokusho_of_Lorwyn: I'm pretty tired, so I might be missing something. I'm wondering are the BoPs the only source of red you have to activate Kessig Wolf Run? I might toss in a copy of stomping ground or a steam vents, as I wouldn't want to be relying on having a bird without summoning sickness in play if I needed to get trample for KotR via Kessig.
Otherwise, I like the list. I, too, am more inclined to build the deck in straight-up combo fashion.
Another version of this list I experimented with was using a few more enchantments (courser+coralhelm+something else) and using Kruphix's Insight instead of Idyllic tutor (since it can easily result in card advantage, and fills the yard for Knight). Might be worth exploring for combo.
Another version of this list I experimented with was using a few more enchantments (courser+coralhelm+something else) and using Kruphix's Insight instead of Idyllic tutor (since it can easily result in card advantage, and fills the yard for Knight). Might be worth exploring for combo.
I edited the list lol. I changed a Vista to the Glade and a Breeding Pool to a Stomping Grounds.
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I wouldn't play the full complement of 6 dorks with 4 serum visions, as you'll run into a lot of conflicts on turn 1 plays. On the other hand, Serum is very strong with goyf.
So my recommendation would be:
-2 birds
+1 colonnade
+1 Ojutai (or Sigarda if you're in a jund infested meta)
+2 courser
+1 Voice of Resurgence
I'd also strongly consider getting up to the complement of voices. They are really, really strong at protecting the combo and denying early interaction to decks like Delver/Twin/Grixis.
Note: Also, if playing serum visions, 4x courser feels almost mandatory, given that Serum Visions reads "draw 2 cards, then scry 1 and gain 1 life" if you have a courser out, most of the time.
I've found a singleton Horizon Canopy frequently helpful on those Courser reveals or Retreat scrys where you kinda want to draw the next card immediately.
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UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I also run more basics and a canopy vista though so that might color my perceptions.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
2 Breeding Pool
1 Canopy Vista
4 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Island
2 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
Dudes
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Path to Exile
3 Dromoka's Command
Combo
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Dromoka's Command
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Life from the Loam
2 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Trinket Mage
More than likely I'll remove the Spellskites next but not going to do anything but the goyf shift first I think.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
https://youtu.be/wKWAmmjDpEM
https://youtu.be/1f4Apz1xkhQ
That said I really like your creature base, I like the spells, I would just lean more on easy or the other being less coco and more spells/interaction, or drop all spells but the coco, paths and retreats and max out on creatures to make coco more reliable.
Have you had a chance to play test it? How has it felt?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
5 Forest
5 Plains
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
1 Stomping Ground
1 Prairie Stream
2 Kessig Wolf Run
CREATURES (17)
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Eternal Witness
4 Jaddi Offshoot
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Collected Company
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Remand
2 Path to Exile
2 Mana Leak
3 Idyllic Tutor
4 Condescend
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Mana Leak
1 Remand
1 Restoration Angel
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
Wargate seems way too slow though.
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
Otherwise, I like the list. I, too, am more inclined to build the deck in straight-up combo fashion.
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
Another version of this list I experimented with was using a few more enchantments (courser+coralhelm+something else) and using Kruphix's Insight instead of Idyllic tutor (since it can easily result in card advantage, and fills the yard for Knight). Might be worth exploring for combo.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
3 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Horizon Canopy
This is what I regard as my "core." It's still only 57 cards, however. There should be at least 1 more land -- I'm thinking Lumbering Falls, Celestial Colonnade, or Stirring Wildwood -- and 2 other things: perhaps 1 Ojutai's Command (instant speed Goyf seems nice) and 1 Dragonlord Ojutai.
Thoughts on these last 3 slots?
I edited the list lol. I changed a Vista to the Glade and a Breeding Pool to a Stomping Grounds.
Live streaming Casual Magic: the Gathering
Sundays at 7:00 PM Eastern Time / 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Follow along on Instagram (@kokoshomebrews) as I create casual tribal decks
and try to build around crazy combos, then play em on stream!
|| WBG || GW || GB || GWU ||
So my recommendation would be:
-2 birds
+1 colonnade
+1 Ojutai (or Sigarda if you're in a jund infested meta)
+2 courser
+1 Voice of Resurgence
I'd also strongly consider getting up to the complement of voices. They are really, really strong at protecting the combo and denying early interaction to decks like Delver/Twin/Grixis.
Note: Also, if playing serum visions, 4x courser feels almost mandatory, given that Serum Visions reads "draw 2 cards, then scry 1 and gain 1 life" if you have a courser out, most of the time.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
CG