Molten Vortex / Life from the Loam does a lot of work cleaning up creature matchups like Elves, Abzan Company and Merfolk, or even Affinity and Infect if you can get it online quickly.
The decision to give up Lightning Bolt was very difficult and may be wrong; like all of these decks it needs a lot of testing.
He beat me 3 to 1 in the first four games. I made a lot of suboptimal plays and suboptimal keeps, but my version of the deck I thought would be quite a bit stronger vs. Jund.
What's the problem card you ask?
Scavenging...ooze. It just dominates every aspect of the game. Once it gets into the late game it just scours the graveyard while being a giant fatass.
Hangarback walker was insane, Trinket mage was insane, but the only way I won is if I got a Courser to stick really. I did have a couple really bad beats on land (stalled at 2 and 3 in two of the four games) but not sure that's the only issue.
One game loss can be attributed 100% to not playing around Maelstrom Pulse, which I am convinced in Jund matchup we have to do (got blown out with pulse on double courser, when I shoulda played Knight).
Definitely did not like stubborn denial in that match, as he'd just kill all my bros.
One round with Rug twin where I crushed him mercilessly (not even close). But not tried Grixis twin yet (probably the worst matchup with all the terminates).
Definitely going to try a round of changes here soon, played probably 30 games with the current iteration so feel like I've given it a fair shake. Goyf is just not quite good enough without proactive sorceries to cast and no way to force my HBW in the yard to pump him. Stubborn denial has been situationally good but generally worse than negate, mana leak or mizzium skin.
Will write that up when I get around to drafting it tomorrow sometime
Pros:
-Helps our affinity, lantern match ups and even merfolks and tron
-More removal against creature combo decks like twin, elves, podless, and mirror
-Who doesn't run instants? Helps to protect our combo more specifically
-Overall a versatile card to keep mb
Selesnya Chamr might be a better fit. This deck isn't trying to be control at baseline, maybe out of the sideboard, but not in the main. Surprise trample is always good
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
In the aggro zoo variants if you don't draw combo it plays out like any other 4c/5c zoo deck. However, if you draw combo - yeah, you pretty much win. If the combo gets disrupted you can still fall back on the zoo beatdown plan.
The same question I ask all the 'aggro with combo finsih' decks:
How do you dig to the combo? what good does it do?
In this deck, specifically, cutting retreats for 3 more aggro creatures or even 3 boros charms seems like it'd be straight up stronger.
The question I ask of the combo decks here are why are you playing an easy to disrupt combo with barely any control elements to protect it? The simple fact is that when observed objectively the combo is bad compared to something like splinter twin. It's in the wrong colors and it doesn't always guarantee a win. This combo is only good because of the the deck that wants to run knight is good anyway, and now it just has an oops I win with both cards being good on their own.
Very excited to finally pick up physical copies of retreat today. Will finally be able to do some real hard testing. Depending on how the weekend goes i might even run it at my LGSs monday night magic. For reference heres where im at witht he deck these days. Already have some thoughts about the deck but so far the majority of testing has been up against tron and affinity. Ill update as the deck changes:
A while back in the spring there was a Bant list making some rounds that had some cool things going on. As some food for thought he's the list: it was known as Bant Blade. There are a lot of really cool things going on with the deck, a lot of elements I really like. original credit (as for as i know) goes to Jayfeather Y.T. Its very possible this list could be adapted into a NightFall deck as its already in the colours and KotR is already there, so its almost as simple as finding room for the 4th KotR and 3-4 retreats.
Is five ridiculous tempo blowout artifacts where you want to be with ancient grudge, koala command and stony silence being things? Don't think that is a deck anymore.
If you're gonna play gear in modern it probably is quest for the holy relic, and even that is pretty bad.
i think there are going to be too many times that you get no value out of your academy researchers. theres only 3 cards that are any good with them. so most of the time its just going to be a 3cmc 2/2 and eldrazi conscription is basically uncastable outside of hitting it with aura swap (which is wide open for removal) or hitting it off of sovereigns late game. Theres two very different combos/synergies happening in this deck. i think you'd want to just focus of making the deck able to pull off one. I agree that its nice to have synergies within synergies but i think the deck is to reliant on turning your mana dorks into lotus cobras to actually win consistently against the field.
All of you advocating Courser need to remember that it pretty much prevents you from ever going off during your combo. You cannot legally shortcut the combo anymore. In between each fetch or knight activation, you will have to shuffle and let your opponent cut, then reveal the top card of your library.
In terms of shortcutting normally (just Knight+Retreat, no Courser involved), I've been asking many judges about this. The general consensus is that you are fine to shortcut it unless your opponent has a valid reason to disallow your shortcut (I.E. they have a response at some point during the combo). So they cannot force you to shuffle in between each fetch without a valid reason.
After some continued testing I've made some small changes. Ive found glen elendra hasn't locked out the opponent in practice as much as i would like so I'm taking her out of the MB. Sometimes she's really good, like with resto and gavony and dromokas command but often she's a 5cmc negate. Freeing up those 2 spots I've added in a Dragonlord Ojutai, to help the beatdown plan as well as helping card advantage and oujutai is synergistic with retreat. the second spot o felt like i wanted something for the early game. Right now I'm trying a single coiling oracle to sort of play a mash between either a mana ramp or elvish mystic (it basically is just elvish mystic with upside) but it might end up being a scooze or a pridemage.
I know there is still no "accepted list" so SB discussions might be a little hard. But I'm at the point where I'm confident enough in the main deck that i can start thinking about the sideboard. This is where I'm starting, just some generic good stuff in the colours and some spicy cards i think are underplayed
The decision to give up Lightning Bolt was very difficult and may be wrong; like all of these decks it needs a lot of testing.
This deck is really fun harder to pilot optimally with hangarbacks, with all the trigs and such.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
He beat me 3 to 1 in the first four games. I made a lot of suboptimal plays and suboptimal keeps, but my version of the deck I thought would be quite a bit stronger vs. Jund.
What's the problem card you ask?
Scavenging...ooze. It just dominates every aspect of the game. Once it gets into the late game it just scours the graveyard while being a giant fatass.
Hangarback walker was insane, Trinket mage was insane, but the only way I won is if I got a Courser to stick really. I did have a couple really bad beats on land (stalled at 2 and 3 in two of the four games) but not sure that's the only issue.
One game loss can be attributed 100% to not playing around Maelstrom Pulse, which I am convinced in Jund matchup we have to do (got blown out with pulse on double courser, when I shoulda played Knight).
Definitely did not like stubborn denial in that match, as he'd just kill all my bros.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Spirits
Definitely going to try a round of changes here soon, played probably 30 games with the current iteration so feel like I've given it a fair shake. Goyf is just not quite good enough without proactive sorceries to cast and no way to force my HBW in the yard to pump him. Stubborn denial has been situationally good but generally worse than negate, mana leak or mizzium skin.
Will write that up when I get around to drafting it tomorrow sometime
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Pros:
-Helps our affinity, lantern match ups and even merfolks and tron
-More removal against creature combo decks like twin, elves, podless, and mirror
-Who doesn't run instants? Helps to protect our combo more specifically
-Overall a versatile card to keep mb
Cons:
-3cmc slot feels pretty crowded already
Also hedron crab + hooting mandrills/kotr/goyf anyone?
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Lightning Mauler
4 goblin guide
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Hallowed Fountain
How do you dig to the combo? what good does it do?
In this deck, specifically, cutting retreats for 3 more aggro creatures or even 3 boros charms seems like it'd be straight up stronger.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The question I ask of the combo decks here are why are you playing an easy to disrupt combo with barely any control elements to protect it? The simple fact is that when observed objectively the combo is bad compared to something like splinter twin. It's in the wrong colors and it doesn't always guarantee a win. This combo is only good because of the the deck that wants to run knight is good anyway, and now it just has an oops I win with both cards being good on their own.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Eternal Witness
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Restoration Angel
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Mana Leak
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Canopy Vista
1 Gavony Township
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Prairie Stream
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
2 Temple Garden
3 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
And once the deck gets a bit cleaner ill start working on the SB
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
4 Path to Exile
2 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Breeding Pool
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Windswept Heath
4 Temple Garden
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Negate
1 Flashfreeze
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Kor Firewalker
Here is also a link to the deck tech that was done about it. http://www.gatheringmagic.com/ricardoconde-052815-weekly-deck-tech-modern-bant-blade/
Any ideas? can this shell be retrofit into KnightFall? and what would the cuts and additions be in your guy's opinion?
If you're gonna play gear in modern it probably is quest for the holy relic, and even that is pretty bad.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
In terms of shortcutting normally (just Knight+Retreat, no Courser involved), I've been asking many judges about this. The general consensus is that you are fine to shortcut it unless your opponent has a valid reason to disallow your shortcut (I.E. they have a response at some point during the combo). So they cannot force you to shuffle in between each fetch without a valid reason.
current list:
4 noble hierarch
3 voice of resurgence
2 tarmogoyf
1 coiling oracle
4 knight of the reliquary
3 kitchen finks
2 eternal witness
3 restoration angel
1 dragonlord ojutai
4 path to exile
2 dromoka's command
3 mana leak
4 retreat to coralhelm
1 elspeth, knight-errant
land
4 windswept heath
3 flooded strand
2 misty rainforest
2 temple garden
2 breeding pool
1 hallowed fountain
1 canopy vista
1 prairie stream
3 forest
1 plains
1 island
1 gavony township
1 ghost quarter
I know there is still no "accepted list" so SB discussions might be a little hard. But I'm at the point where I'm confident enough in the main deck that i can start thinking about the sideboard. This is where I'm starting, just some generic good stuff in the colours and some spicy cards i think are underplayed
2 dispel
1 negate
2 hindering light
2 stony silence
1 spellskite
1 detention sphere
2 scavenging ooze
1 disenchant
1 obstinate baloth
2 geist of saint traft
whats everyone else's sideboards looking like?