I don't know if people bring in RIP vs. this deck. Other than Knight it's totally dead, and we've got pridemages and such, and an aggressive gameplan that will punish tapping out for combo hate on turn 2.
How has tarmogoyf preformed? I like having the main deck f you to controlish decks in Voice of Resurgence more personally as it seems half the games I play him in testing he never gets above a 3/4 for me.
Voice is hot and cold. Its best against blue decks, but this deck crushes blue decks anyways. Goyf does what zoo needs, beats down and doesnt die to bolt. Its consistant damage. Goyf has a rep of peope saying hes not as good as X card in zoo for whatever reason, but its generally false and money bias. Goyf is dumb and beats. Zoo wants dumb beats.
Taking him out worses plan A, beat down.
Triggers have to be named on existance. I didnt know that. Ill have to rework that vid. My bad. Ill pull it thn re do it tonight.
Also I'm fairly sure you have to declare which option from the Retreat to Coralhelmlandfall trigger you picked and if it's the tap/untap one which creature you're targeting with it when it goes on the stack so you can't just decide later you'd rather scry to some action if they have double removal for your knight or something. That means it's best to let each trigger resolve as you go.
The key to sequencing seems to be every time you fetch with the knight, grab a fetch land then fetch with that until you have one fetchable land and the steppe left in your deck. The most vulnerable part of the combo is when you first tap the knight to try to combo off if you weren't blessed with a fetch to play from your hand this turn. If that's your situation Knight of the Reliquary is going to die unless you have a path to exile in hand, another creature besides your knight, and the mana to play it, in which case you can fetch a basic, untap knight, tap knight, fetch the steppe, declare protection. If you do have the fetch to keep up, then your combo is safe from everything but double removal. One way to punish new players facing the combo for the first time when you don't have a fetch or a path to protect your knight with and they assume that they can just path your knight at the end of your combo is to make your first knight trigger grab a fetch land, untap your knight with the Retreat trigger, leave the fetch uncracked, then move onto sacing another plains/forest you have to begin the process as outlined above. By doing this if they don't remove the knight in response to the first knight fetch, you will still have protection for your knight when they go to remove it as you swing. Keep this in mind in the coming weeks when you're facing opponents who are not totally familiar with this combo. If they do not know when the best time is to disrupt you, they won't be able to beat the cautious player who makes sure to do this.
Also I'm fairly sure you have to declare which option from the Retreat to Coralhelmlandfall trigger you picked and if it's the tap/untap one which creature you're targeting with it when it goes on the stack so you can't just decide later you'd rather scry to some action if they have double removal for your knight or something. That means it's best to let each trigger resolve as you go.
The key to sequencing seems to be every time you fetch with the knight, grab a fetch land then fetch with that until you have one fetchable land and the steppe left in your deck. The most vulnerable part of the combo is when you first tap the knight to try to combo off if you weren't blessed with a fetch to play from your hand this turn. If that's your situation Knight of the Reliquary is going to die unless you have a path to exile in hand, another creature besides your knight, and the mana to play it, in which case you can fetch a basic, untap knight, tap knight, fetch the steppe, declare protection. If you do have the fetch to keep up, then your combo is safe from everything but double removal. One way to punish new players facing the combo for the first time when you don't have a fetch or a path to protect your knight with and they assume that they can just path your knight at the end of your combo is to make your first knight trigger grab a fetch land, untap your knight with the Retreat trigger, leave the fetch uncracked, then move onto sacing another plains/forest you have to begin the process as outlined above. By doing this if they don't remove the knight in response to the first knight fetch, you will still have protection for your knight when they go to remove it as you swing. Keep this in mind in the coming weeks when you're facing opponents who are not totally familiar with this combo. If they do not know when the best time is to disrupt you, they won't be able to beat the cautious player who makes sure to do this.
Right. But the plus side of the zoo version is if this happenes, its no big deal. You still have a very valid beat down option, still can use coral for value, and still have a threat of combo loaming.
Exactly, It's what I love about the zoo version. So much fun to watch an opponent hold up removal to deal with your combo, sacrificing their own game plan only to aggro them to death anyway.
Alright! Updated that video. Its 1000% clearer and better formated. So Im glad I had to redo it. Still it probably wont be up til 4 am today. 40 minutes and big file for clarity in pixels!
one thing iwant to mention: i think shortcutting the combo will not be as easy as you said it is going to be.
first: the combo is not an infinite combo like twin where you create infinite damage. you dont even have enough lands to do so. it might get very close and tricky if the oppenent has ooze in play or can create life in other way or if he has many blcokers in play or is at high life etc etc.
second: for example vs a red deck wins player with open mana they might not concede with bolts/boros charm/deflecting palm in hand and you have to do every single fetch/crack/shock since you might pain yourself a lot and it has a lot influence on the game if you do a mistake and do not fetch/crack/pain/shock the right way!. the same is true for any opponent who has the feeling he can do something against the combo at one point.
third: the success of the combo is dependant from the cards in your hand. for example the win is not that "free" if you do have steppe in hand instead of in your library which makes you more vulnerable to removal or even blockers (for example piledriver has protection blue and cant be tapped with coral). so if you want to shortcut it isnt enough to drop coralhelm to a knight on the battlefield and ask GG? - you also have to show your hand showing you do not have steppe in hand.
i guess if i was playing against the deck i would ALWAYS want my opponent to perform his combo step for step. it isnt a combo like twin which is much less easy to interrupt and even more easy to perform. the coralhelm knight combo might be dead by one missed trigger or one wrong fetch. doing it right needs practice.
The shortcut I'm referring to is Fetch-trigger-land -tigger-knight-repeat. So you can keep your library open. Its fine to short cut the small part, so you dont have to shuffle each time
knightfall should be a beatdown deck which can win through combo as a "bonus" threat. cards like ranger only serve the combo plan and is therefore just bad. even vines or anything we know from infect would be better than him
Has anyone proxied this deck in paper? I don't mean to sound like an alarmist, but the amount of shuffling required during the combo is going ruffle some feathers.
I think you can't shortcut and not shuffle each time you fetch a land but keep the deck in your hands and repeatedly activate knight. I don't think your opponent can demand you truly randomize your deck each time
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I think you can't shortcut and not shuffle each time you fetch a land but keep the deck in your hands and repeatedly activate knight. I don't think your opponent can demand you truly randomize your deck each time
To paraphrase Rule 103.1, an opponent can indeed request a complete shuffle and can also insist on cutting the deck each time the deck is shuffled. Shuffling, as defined in the rules, means to randomize the deck.
I think you can't shortcut and not shuffle each time you fetch a land but keep the deck in your hands and repeatedly activate knight. I don't think your opponent can demand you truly randomize your deck each time
To paraphrase Rule 103.1, an opponent can indeed request a complete shuffle and can also insist on cutting the deck each time the deck is shuffled. Shuffling, as defined in the rules, means to randomize the deck.
Maybe 1 person you ever meet will insist you shuffle each time. Everyone else is going to be ok with you not shuffling in between knight activations since you're cycling through it all in 1 go anyway. It might be a rule that they can enforce, but no one's going to.
I think you can't shortcut and not shuffle each time you fetch a land but keep the deck in your hands and repeatedly activate knight. I don't think your opponent can demand you truly randomize your deck each time
To paraphrase Rule 103.1, an opponent can indeed request a complete shuffle and can also insist on cutting the deck each time the deck is shuffled. Shuffling, as defined in the rules, means to randomize the deck.
Maybe 1 person you ever meet will insist you shuffle each time. Everyone else is going to be ok with you not shuffling in between knight activations since you're cycling through it all in 1 go anyway. It might be a rule that they can enforce, but no one's going to.
I am more or less talking about tournament settings, where it will be required. You can bet that anyone who has any intention of interacting with the deck during the combo will insist on integrity, but that doesn't mean anyone involved (least of all people watching on Twitch) will enjoy the process.
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I don't know if people bring in RIP vs. this deck. Other than Knight it's totally dead, and we've got pridemages and such, and an aggressive gameplan that will punish tapping out for combo hate on turn 2.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The rest of the deck.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Taking him out worses plan A, beat down.
Triggers have to be named on existance. I didnt know that. Ill have to rework that vid. My bad. Ill pull it thn re do it tonight.
The key to sequencing seems to be every time you fetch with the knight, grab a fetch land then fetch with that until you have one fetchable land and the steppe left in your deck. The most vulnerable part of the combo is when you first tap the knight to try to combo off if you weren't blessed with a fetch to play from your hand this turn. If that's your situation Knight of the Reliquary is going to die unless you have a path to exile in hand, another creature besides your knight, and the mana to play it, in which case you can fetch a basic, untap knight, tap knight, fetch the steppe, declare protection. If you do have the fetch to keep up, then your combo is safe from everything but double removal. One way to punish new players facing the combo for the first time when you don't have a fetch or a path to protect your knight with and they assume that they can just path your knight at the end of your combo is to make your first knight trigger grab a fetch land, untap your knight with the Retreat trigger, leave the fetch uncracked, then move onto sacing another plains/forest you have to begin the process as outlined above. By doing this if they don't remove the knight in response to the first knight fetch, you will still have protection for your knight when they go to remove it as you swing. Keep this in mind in the coming weeks when you're facing opponents who are not totally familiar with this combo. If they do not know when the best time is to disrupt you, they won't be able to beat the cautious player who makes sure to do this.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
NP! Thanks for the video though, it was right on point otherwise of course.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Right. But the plus side of the zoo version is if this happenes, its no big deal. You still have a very valid beat down option, still can use coral for value, and still have a threat of combo loaming.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
5:20 AM. close enough.
first: the combo is not an infinite combo like twin where you create infinite damage. you dont even have enough lands to do so. it might get very close and tricky if the oppenent has ooze in play or can create life in other way or if he has many blcokers in play or is at high life etc etc.
second: for example vs a red deck wins player with open mana they might not concede with bolts/boros charm/deflecting palm in hand and you have to do every single fetch/crack/shock since you might pain yourself a lot and it has a lot influence on the game if you do a mistake and do not fetch/crack/pain/shock the right way!. the same is true for any opponent who has the feeling he can do something against the combo at one point.
third: the success of the combo is dependant from the cards in your hand. for example the win is not that "free" if you do have steppe in hand instead of in your library which makes you more vulnerable to removal or even blockers (for example piledriver has protection blue and cant be tapped with coral). so if you want to shortcut it isnt enough to drop coralhelm to a knight on the battlefield and ask GG? - you also have to show your hand showing you do not have steppe in hand.
i guess if i was playing against the deck i would ALWAYS want my opponent to perform his combo step for step. it isnt a combo like twin which is much less easy to interrupt and even more easy to perform. the coralhelm knight combo might be dead by one missed trigger or one wrong fetch. doing it right needs practice.
CG
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
To paraphrase Rule 103.1, an opponent can indeed request a complete shuffle and can also insist on cutting the deck each time the deck is shuffled. Shuffling, as defined in the rules, means to randomize the deck.
Maybe 1 person you ever meet will insist you shuffle each time. Everyone else is going to be ok with you not shuffling in between knight activations since you're cycling through it all in 1 go anyway. It might be a rule that they can enforce, but no one's going to.
I am more or less talking about tournament settings, where it will be required. You can bet that anyone who has any intention of interacting with the deck during the combo will insist on integrity, but that doesn't mean anyone involved (least of all people watching on Twitch) will enjoy the process.
CG