Tec Edge does not stop Karn. Having the second GQ increases the chances of naturally drawing one. We are not the fastest clock, so, some games I do search for both with KoTR.
Oh, right. I wasn't thinking about the natural stone activation. But I think I'm not too worried about O Stone because spell queller can counter those. And we also have pridemage and Stony silence. And nowadays no one is playing Valakut decks at my local game shop, so I guess it's just a matter of what I'm most afraid of.
On the countermagic subject, I'm currently playing 3 Unified Will + 1 Negate on my sideboard, those really do some nice work against Tron
Hi, all, I played a couple of FNMs this week and I was trounced by Jund and Traverse Shadow. But focussing on Jund, my deck just felt picked apart each time. Bird would get bolted. Tracker would get Kolaghan Commanded. Bloodbraid Elf everywhere. Big Tarmogoyfs. Dark Confidant. I was a little overwhelmed, and I'm not sure whether it was just my bad draws vs their really good draws or not. People who have success against Jund, any insight to share? Do I always Path the Dark Confidant when I get the chance?
I actually just played both of those decks last week and had the opposite experience.
It would help if you could post your current list? I know you kinda skimp on Reflector Mage and he's a game winner in Midrange mirrors. You should definitely be boarding out birds and Retreat for better grinding cards. Yes always kill Confidant in the early game. Later in the game though I tend to let him live especially if they're running the risk of dying to him.
I had 3 Reflector Mages in the sideboard this time and even 2 Kitchen Finks, which I boarded in. The games were all right in the first five, six turns, but eventually, with Dark Confidant, Jund just turned the corner faster. Many of the games were Ooze battles were we tried to eat up as many of the creatures in our graveyards as possible. Spell Quellers felt really bad in these games, so I might side them out in future. I'm not sure about siding Birds. I feel like 23 lands isn't enough sometimes to reach land 3 or 4.
Edit: I'm also seriously considering replacing Nissa with Gideon, AoZ. His Knight token can't be Last Hoped, and can block BBE. Gideon can't be Inquisitioned or Abrupt Decayed either.
I 3-3 dropped (I probably should have stayed longer to get more reps but my friends were wanting to leave). I beat Esper Control, BUG Midrange, and Ironworks Combo and lost to Jund, Burn, and Scapeshift. Losing to Jund was annoying because my first game I drew three non-dork/land cards which he answered and the second game I missed four land drops in a row with an Elspeth in hand without double white, which would have secured me a win since all I needed to do was have her jump a creature twice for lethal. Against burn I was on the play and game one I had the option to try a turn three combo win but leave my Knight vulnerable T2 as a 3/3, or hold off longer and see if I could get a 2nd fetch. I took the gamble on a turn three win and lost (I wouldn't have lived long enough to get a second fetch regardless). Game three I drew nothing that gained me life. Scapeshift matchup came down to if I untapped I would have won, but he had turn four Scapeshift both times and I never drew my sideboard beaters.
I felt like the deck was fine and the decks I lost to were perfectly winnable if I drew the right portion of my deck. I wouldn't make any changes to the deck if I had a second chance, the only flex choice I'd make would be whether or not I should go 3 path 2 retreat or 2 path 3 retreat, but the difference seems a bit negligible and would not have made a difference today. Tomorrow I'm going to play Bant in the side events and see how that goes, going 3-3 makes me feel like I should have played Bant to begin with.
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Modern: GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy: GWB Maverick
EDH: GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
I'm gonna make the same suggestion I make every time: I'd suggest getting rid of some of those excess trackers and mainboarding Reflector Mages. It almost ensures you don't lose against other Midrange decks (especially Shadow). This would also allow you to diversify your sideboard. Here's my list
I board in the Midrange threats like Nissa #2, Gideon AoZ, and Kitchen Finks. I also sometimes board in some counterspells. I used to bring in Dawn/Dusk but I'm honestly considering removing it from my sideboard. It's always either too late or unnecessary. Courser really helps with getting land drops, doesn't die to bolt, free blocks BBE, keeps your life total up, etc.
I wouldn't drop Nissa. She's great and especially helpful against discard strategies like Jund. She helps setup your topdecks, generates card advantage, and BGx manabase + Bob often puts them pretty close to dying to her ult. I had a game last week where I was able to play her for X=4 in a board stall pretty much guaranteeing the win unless he hit an abrupt decay or maelstrom pulse on his turn. But even then I was able to scry a CoCo to the top with the +2. I wouldn't dream of cutting her but if she's been underperforming for you, Gideon is always great
I played meddling mage for a bit and wasn't sure how I felt. It's a hard card to analyze, as online you don't always know if it affected your opponent.
I actually really like the card, but cut it because few of the winning lists were running them. It's also pretty hard on the mana and gets boarded out a lot
I felt like the deck was fine and the decks I lost to were perfectly winnable if I drew the right portion of my deck. I wouldn't make any changes to the deck if I had a second chance, the only flex choice I'd make would be whether or not I should go 3 path 2 retreat or 2 path 3 retreat, but the difference seems a bit negligible and would not have made a difference today. Tomorrow I'm going to play Bant in the side events and see how that goes, going 3-3 makes me feel like I should have played Bant to begin with.
I've been testing a naya / BBE list too. Heavily inspired from a deck that 5-0'd on magic online.
I think BBE is pretty strong but you really need to build around it if you want it to shine. There's a few adjustments that should be made to use BBE over CoCo. I think the BBE decks are looking to be way more aggressive.
Most importantly is the mana dorks, IMO. Going BBE > mana dork is certainly the worst thing that can happen. I've seen lists keeping 4 hierarchs and replacing the birds with 4 wild nacalt. A 3/3 for 1 is good early and still "decent" mid/late if you cascade into it.
Second are the paths. BBE > path has the potential to fizzle against many decks (empty board, combo deck, etc). I'm currently trying with 3 helix in the main and I'm always happy to see them. BBE > Helix is always "live" because at worst you can just aim for the face. I keep the paths in the side.
It ends up being fairly different (leaning more toward aggro) than the bant version.
I felt like the deck was fine and the decks I lost to were perfectly winnable if I drew the right portion of my deck. I wouldn't make any changes to the deck if I had a second chance, the only flex choice I'd make would be whether or not I should go 3 path 2 retreat or 2 path 3 retreat, but the difference seems a bit negligible and would not have made a difference today. Tomorrow I'm going to play Bant in the side events and see how that goes, going 3-3 makes me feel like I should have played Bant to begin with.
I've been testing a naya / BBE list too. Heavily inspired from a deck that 5-0'd on magic online.
I think BBE is pretty strong but you really need to build around it if you want it to shine. There's a few adjustments that should be made to use BBE over CoCo. I think the BBE decks are looking to be way more aggressive.
Most importantly is the mana dorks, IMO. Going BBE > mana dork is certainly the worst thing that can happen. I've seen lists keeping 4 hierarchs and replacing the birds with 4 wild nacalt. A 3/3 for 1 is good early and still "decent" mid/late if you cascade into it.
Second are the paths. BBE > path has the potential to fizzle against many decks (empty board, combo deck, etc). I'm currently trying with 3 helix in the main and I'm always happy to see them. BBE > Helix is always "live" because at worst you can just aim for the face. I keep the paths in the side.
It ends up being fairly different (leaning more toward aggro) than the bant version.
I actually created that 5-0 deck lol (the deck itself was someone else's slight alteration). But yeah I've definitely come to realize that I should probably be running Helix over Path. I've very, very rarely cascaded Path into an empty board (probably less than five times in the innumerable amount of games I've played) but the burn, lifegain, and not ramping them would have come in handy plenty. I tried Nacatl very briefly but I just feel like getting the T1 dork is too important to go away from.
What are people's thoughts on Vikram's list? 2 different combo finishes and 2 Jace.
I think the deck is very weird, but you definitely can't hate on a top 8 finish. Knightfall-Vizier hybrids aren't a new thing, but adding Jace seems pretty damn strong. I like it.
After crying out loud when Jace was unbanned I sleeved up Knightfall again because I felt Jace was not that busted as I thought. Took the following list to FNM:
Finished 3-1 winning against G-Tron (2-0), UWr Control (2-0) and Jund (2-0). Lost to Affinity (0-2).
Due the lack of affinity I thought 1 Stony would be enough. Will go up to 2 and add a Settle the Wreckage. I lost both games to resolved Etched Champion.
My MVP of the evening was Geist of Saint Traft! It was a fun addition and in the UWr Match my opponent had to cast Supreme Verdict on my Geist
Before the FNM I had 4x Spell Queller in the deck but changed it last minute because I face a lot of removal right now. Queller is better against the combo matchups but in that case I try to combo first
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Modern: 5c Humans//Devoted Company
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
I built the GP list last night, played a few games. Nothing decisive yet buti can say the deck feels extremely flexible and powerful.
Chord was extremely sweet. Using it as a bounce spell, counterspell, or combo piece was awesome, and played really well with the company/queller flash plan.
Jace was terrible for me. Hard to cast, awkward with company and recruiter, and slow. I'll keep trying him but I'm itching to play the full playset of chords.
Does anyone have experience with the list or know Vikram? Knightfall decks are always so different; I'm definitely not going to ignore a finish that great
Yeah I'm interested in trying something similar but -2 Jace +1 Nissa +1 Chord. I have no experience with the vizier combo though. How does the deck sit right now?
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It helps more against Oblivion Stone, as well as being a way to break serve against valakut
If you're looking for dedicated hate to draw normally, I'd suggest stony or more countermagic.
On the countermagic subject, I'm currently playing 3 Unified Will + 1 Negate on my sideboard, those really do some nice work against Tron
It would help if you could post your current list? I know you kinda skimp on Reflector Mage and he's a game winner in Midrange mirrors. You should definitely be boarding out birds and Retreat for better grinding cards. Yes always kill Confidant in the early game. Later in the game though I tend to let him live especially if they're running the risk of dying to him.
I had 3 Reflector Mages in the sideboard this time and even 2 Kitchen Finks, which I boarded in. The games were all right in the first five, six turns, but eventually, with Dark Confidant, Jund just turned the corner faster. Many of the games were Ooze battles were we tried to eat up as many of the creatures in our graveyards as possible. Spell Quellers felt really bad in these games, so I might side them out in future. I'm not sure about siding Birds. I feel like 23 lands isn't enough sometimes to reach land 3 or 4.
Edit: I'm also seriously considering replacing Nissa with Gideon, AoZ. His Knight token can't be Last Hoped, and can block BBE. Gideon can't be Inquisitioned or Abrupt Decayed either.
1x Breeding Pool
3x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
1x Hallowed Fountain
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Creature (28)
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Bloodbraid Elf
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Tireless Tracker
3x Voice of Resurgence
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Path to Exile
Enchantment (3)
3x Retreat to Coralhelm
Planeswalker (1)
1x Domri Rade
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Izzet Staticaster
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Stony Silence
I 3-3 dropped (I probably should have stayed longer to get more reps but my friends were wanting to leave). I beat Esper Control, BUG Midrange, and Ironworks Combo and lost to Jund, Burn, and Scapeshift. Losing to Jund was annoying because my first game I drew three non-dork/land cards which he answered and the second game I missed four land drops in a row with an Elspeth in hand without double white, which would have secured me a win since all I needed to do was have her jump a creature twice for lethal. Against burn I was on the play and game one I had the option to try a turn three combo win but leave my Knight vulnerable T2 as a 3/3, or hold off longer and see if I could get a 2nd fetch. I took the gamble on a turn three win and lost (I wouldn't have lived long enough to get a second fetch regardless). Game three I drew nothing that gained me life. Scapeshift matchup came down to if I untapped I would have won, but he had turn four Scapeshift both times and I never drew my sideboard beaters.
I felt like the deck was fine and the decks I lost to were perfectly winnable if I drew the right portion of my deck. I wouldn't make any changes to the deck if I had a second chance, the only flex choice I'd make would be whether or not I should go 3 path 2 retreat or 2 path 3 retreat, but the difference seems a bit negligible and would not have made a difference today. Tomorrow I'm going to play Bant in the side events and see how that goes, going 3-3 makes me feel like I should have played Bant to begin with.
GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy:
GWB Maverick
EDH:
GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-06-17-knightfall/?cat=&sort=cost
I board in the Midrange threats like Nissa #2, Gideon AoZ, and Kitchen Finks. I also sometimes board in some counterspells. I used to bring in Dawn/Dusk but I'm honestly considering removing it from my sideboard. It's always either too late or unnecessary. Courser really helps with getting land drops, doesn't die to bolt, free blocks BBE, keeps your life total up, etc.
I wouldn't drop Nissa. She's great and especially helpful against discard strategies like Jund. She helps setup your topdecks, generates card advantage, and BGx manabase + Bob often puts them pretty close to dying to her ult. I had a game last week where I was able to play her for X=4 in a board stall pretty much guaranteeing the win unless he hit an abrupt decay or maelstrom pulse on his turn. But even then I was able to scry a CoCo to the top with the +2. I wouldn't dream of cutting her but if she's been underperforming for you, Gideon is always great
I actually really like the card, but cut it because few of the winning lists were running them. It's also pretty hard on the mana and gets boarded out a lot
What are people's thoughts on Vikram's list? 2 different combo finishes and 2 Jace.
I've been testing a naya / BBE list too. Heavily inspired from a deck that 5-0'd on magic online.
I think BBE is pretty strong but you really need to build around it if you want it to shine. There's a few adjustments that should be made to use BBE over CoCo. I think the BBE decks are looking to be way more aggressive.
Most importantly is the mana dorks, IMO. Going BBE > mana dork is certainly the worst thing that can happen. I've seen lists keeping 4 hierarchs and replacing the birds with 4 wild nacalt. A 3/3 for 1 is good early and still "decent" mid/late if you cascade into it.
Second are the paths. BBE > path has the potential to fizzle against many decks (empty board, combo deck, etc). I'm currently trying with 3 helix in the main and I'm always happy to see them. BBE > Helix is always "live" because at worst you can just aim for the face. I keep the paths in the side.
It ends up being fairly different (leaning more toward aggro) than the bant version.
I actually created that 5-0 deck lol (the deck itself was someone else's slight alteration). But yeah I've definitely come to realize that I should probably be running Helix over Path. I've very, very rarely cascaded Path into an empty board (probably less than five times in the innumerable amount of games I've played) but the burn, lifegain, and not ramping them would have come in handy plenty. I tried Nacatl very briefly but I just feel like getting the T1 dork is too important to go away from.
I think the deck is very weird, but you definitely can't hate on a top 8 finish. Knightfall-Vizier hybrids aren't a new thing, but adding Jace seems pretty damn strong. I like it.
GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy:
GWB Maverick
EDH:
GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Voice of Resurgence
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Selfess Spirit
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Reflector Mage
1x Eternal Witness
3x Geist of Saint Traft
Spells:
4x Path to Exile
4x Collected Company
2x Retreat to Coralhelm
Lands:
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Temple Garden
1x Botanical Sanctum
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Gavony Township
2x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Flooded Strand
1x Stony Silence
2x Unified Will
2x Negate
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Kitchen Finnks
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Tireless Tracker
2x Izzet Staticaster
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
Finished 3-1 winning against G-Tron (2-0), UWr Control (2-0) and Jund (2-0). Lost to Affinity (0-2).
Due the lack of affinity I thought 1 Stony would be enough. Will go up to 2 and add a Settle the Wreckage. I lost both games to resolved Etched Champion.
My MVP of the evening was Geist of Saint Traft! It was a fun addition and in the UWr Match my opponent had to cast Supreme Verdict on my Geist
Before the FNM I had 4x Spell Queller in the deck but changed it last minute because I face a lot of removal right now. Queller is better against the combo matchups but in that case I try to combo first
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
Chord was extremely sweet. Using it as a bounce spell, counterspell, or combo piece was awesome, and played really well with the company/queller flash plan.
Jace was terrible for me. Hard to cast, awkward with company and recruiter, and slow. I'll keep trying him but I'm itching to play the full playset of chords.
Does anyone have experience with the list or know Vikram? Knightfall decks are always so different; I'm definitely not going to ignore a finish that great