The turn three potential is icing on the cake of this deck, but unlikely to pan out most games. Even then having a must answer combo on turn three can talk walk some decks that have to spend a turn dealing with your stuff instead of advancing their gameplan.
If people are going to kill the graveyards to kill the combo, they are going to kill tarmo along with it. I think he's an easy replacement here if you don't want to use them.
I was really trying to take advantage of the fact that the retreat can be a good value card. Since I run such a low number of instants and notcreature spells I feel like this deck can support Thalia. Running Thalia really helps protect out creatures by tying up their mana. Fauna Shaman is a nice card to find the knight, but can also find silver bullets AND transition us to the vengevine beatdown plan. She also works adorably with Retreat (can someone say value). This list is so far untested but I intend to proxy it up and start jamming games soon.
I'm getting toward cutting two dorks with 24 lands, and I'm getting on the rogue's passage boat. Might be going up to 4 geists too actually.
Just not a huge fan of the Nacatl/Lynx/Bolt/Wolf Run type plans myself. Keeping the manabase gentle and running coursers for a little slower midrange plan with a combo.
This is where I am too. I can acknowledge that the zoo build can work well, it was my first thought upon seeing Retreat.
What I am hoping for though, is a successful bant midrange, not an aggro race, because if I wanted that, it would be burn.
It's pretty much impossible to win a slow game in modern if you aren't running heavy, heavy disruption. That's why my first instinct, and so far my most successful build, has been one that gets them dead fast.
And after testing this so much, I really do think it has the potential to be tier 1.5 easily, maybe better once we work out the optimal build. And I do have to agree with MantisRider, I feel like playing slow isn't something this deck can win at doing. Face is the place!
Less Gimmicky midrange version. Disrupt with taxing creatures and beat down. The thing I like about Thalia/teeg/clique is that they are better at protecting the combo. Dryad arbor is adorable with Retreat
vendilion clique can protect knight against both targeted and mass removal and can be brought in with collected company. Does anyone think it could also be used in the Bant shell?
I greatly dislike the double blue mana cost, it's going to be problematic.
vendilion clique can protect knight against both targeted and mass removal and can be brought in with collected company. Does anyone think it could also be used in the Bant shell?
I greatly dislike the double blue mana cost, it's going to be problematic.
We could support it with Æther Vial. If we run 3 vials and 3 CoCo, almost anything becomes reasonable to play. The mana problems smooth themselves out.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
We could support it with Aether Vial. If we run 3 aether vials and 3 CoCo, almost anything becomes reasonable to play. The mana problems smooth themselves out.
Why Vial though? This seems like a deck that hardly needs instant-speed creatures (See hatebears) and it doesn't have any card advantage or enough same-cost creatures to warrant playing it for mana conservation (See Merfolk). I really don't like Vial in general because it just gives them more value out of Kola.
vendilion clique can protect knight against both targeted and mass removal and can be brought in with collected company. Does anyone think it could also be used in the Bant shell?
I greatly dislike the double blue mana cost, it's going to be problematic.
Noble and bird should mitigate that. If I notice a problem the manabase can be tweaked. Clique is very good.
vendilion clique can protect knight against both targeted and mass removal and can be brought in with collected company. Does anyone think it could also be used in the Bant shell?
I greatly dislike the double blue mana cost, it's going to be problematic.
We could support it with Aether Vial. If we run 3 aether vials and 3 CoCo, almost anything becomes reasonable to play. The mana problems smooth themselves out.
Why Vial though? This seems like a deck that hardly needs instant-speed creatures (See hatebears) and it doesn't have any card advantage to warrant playing it for mana conservation (See Merfolk). I really don't like Vial in general because it just gives them more value out of Kola.
Kola is annoying, but I feel like having the ability to flash in Knights at end of turn is always useful. Having a vial on 3 just seems threatening. Perhaps it could only work in a bant tempo/hatebear style build thing.
I'll screw around with it tomorrow, see if anything is there.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Kola is annoying, but I feel like having the ability to flash in Knights at end of turn is always useful. Having a vial on 3 seems threating. Perhaps it could only work in a bant tempo/hatebear style build.
I'll screw around with it tomorrow, see if anything is there.
Huh, a hatebear approach hasn't been looked at yet. Could be worth a shot I suppose. Let us know how it goes.
Side note, I'd just like to mention how many opponents I've made furious when I discard a Smiter to their Lili.
I've been lurking this thread for a while now. I just got back into MTG and decided to jump into modern with bant company as bant is my favorite color combination.
Just fairly recently got the cards for the bant shell cause bant company, so I was wondering if the consensus now is that the naya/GWur shell consistently outperforms the bant shell? If so, I'm gonna start trading for/buying lands.
I'm hoping for a successful bant shell as well, but I guess you can't argue with results. Bolts seem like a really solid choice.
I preordered some cards for the first time in a while just to slot this combo into my midrange Bant shell. This is what will finally make Bant work in Modern. Working on my decklist, now, but I should have something to contribute in the next couple of days.
This is what I'm playing. I think the big flex spot is the Loxodon Smiter slot. Geist of Saint Traft seems like it can be very good there with Retreat tapping down blockers while dodging removal. At the moment I'm just playing Smiters because I'm not convinced we need another 3-mana 2/2 and Smiter is good against control and Jund. Alternatively we can play Kitchen Finks for some lifegain against Burn/because the combo does a lot of damage to us, or we can choose to play a more interactive game with a few less creatures (24ish) and dismembers in the main for our twin matchups.
4 Retreats makes Coco worse, and I'd rather draw into a free win than have a 3-mana enchantment in my opening hand. 4 Coco seems bad because you need some interaction, and again it's a card you don't necessarily want to see in your opener.
I've seen lists running 22 lands, but again I feel like you need to his your 3rd land on turn 3 every time, even with dorks, and 22 whiffs too much for my taste. I might even think to go to 24 lands and play one less creature (probably Smiter).
I have two Sejiris in there in the event we accidentally have one in-hand when we need to tutor it up, and one Gavony in there in the event we board the combo out and are aiming for a more fair game with a dork/beatdown plan.
I've been lurking this thread for a while now. I just got back into MTG and decided to jump into modern with bant company as bant is my favorite color combination.
Just fairly recently got the cards for the bant shell cause bant company, so I was wondering if the consensus now is that the naya/GWur shell consistently outperforms the bant shell? If so, I'm gonna start trading for/buying lands.
I'm hoping for a successful bant shell as well, but I guess you can't argue with results. Bolts seem like a really solid choice.
This deck is just a few days old, it's a newborn baby compared to the other veteran decks of modern. I wouldn't lock in on any build being the "best" build until we get a lot more testing and tournament results in. They both have their merits, so play test both or just play your favorite variant!
One thing I've noticed is the single copy of Sejiri Steppe doesn't protect Knight if your opponent uses removal in response to the sejiri trigger coming onto the stack. Hence, Vendilion Clique helps pre-empt that by getting rid of the troublesome cards in your opponent's hand before comboing off for the win. And a 3/1 flyer is another threat the opponent has to deal with.
Yeah the concept is to leave up one fetchland and when they want to target knight with removal (which will probably happen when you've declared attackers) you crack -> untap knight -> fetch sejiri in response. They can still kill the knight with a 2nd removal while sejiri's ETB trigger is on stack but then that's a 2 for 1.
I think Vendilion Clique is a great idea actually, by the time you want it, UU shouldnt matter, its not nearly as rough as Cryptic. I'm still left without UUU quite a bit in some of my more casual decks.
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UW Spirits
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~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
2x Breeding Pool
1x Cinder Glade
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2x Meddling Mage
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Vengevine
Instant (3)
3x Path to Exile
Enchantment (4)
4x Retreat to Coralhelm
1x Celestial Purge
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Life from the Loam
1x Path to Exile
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
2x Timely Reinforcements
I was really trying to take advantage of the fact that the retreat can be a good value card. Since I run such a low number of instants and notcreature spells I feel like this deck can support Thalia. Running Thalia really helps protect out creatures by tying up their mana. Fauna Shaman is a nice card to find the knight, but can also find silver bullets AND transition us to the vengevine beatdown plan. She also works adorably with Retreat (can someone say value). This list is so far untested but I intend to proxy it up and start jamming games soon.
This is where I am too. I can acknowledge that the zoo build can work well, it was my first thought upon seeing Retreat.
What I am hoping for though, is a successful bant midrange, not an aggro race, because if I wanted that, it would be burn.
Spirits
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
I'm going to keep working on it though.
Spirits
And after testing this so much, I really do think it has the potential to be tier 1.5 easily, maybe better once we work out the optimal build. And I do have to agree with MantisRider, I feel like playing slow isn't something this deck can win at doing. Face is the place!
2x Breeding Pool
1x Canopy Vista
1x Cinder Glade
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Hero of Bladehold
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Voice of resurgence
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Vendilion Clique
Enchantment (4)
4x Retreat to Coralhelm
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Life from the Loam
2x Reclamation Sage
1x Spellskite
3x Stony Silence
2x Timely Reinforcements
EDIT: Added voice because I forgot that card was a thing
I greatly dislike the double blue mana cost, it's going to be problematic.
We could support it with Æther Vial. If we run 3 vials and 3 CoCo, almost anything becomes reasonable to play. The mana problems smooth themselves out.
- Manite
Why Vial though? This seems like a deck that hardly needs instant-speed creatures (See hatebears) and it doesn't have any card advantage or enough same-cost creatures to warrant playing it for mana conservation (See Merfolk). I really don't like Vial in general because it just gives them more value out of Kola.
Noble and bird should mitigate that. If I notice a problem the manabase can be tweaked. Clique is very good.
Kola is annoying, but I feel like having the ability to flash in Knights at end of turn is always useful. Having a vial on 3 just seems threatening. Perhaps it could only work in a bant tempo/hatebear style build thing.
I'll screw around with it tomorrow, see if anything is there.
- Manite
Huh, a hatebear approach hasn't been looked at yet. Could be worth a shot I suppose. Let us know how it goes.
Side note, I'd just like to mention how many opponents I've made furious when I discard a Smiter to their Lili.
Just fairly recently got the cards for the bant shell cause bant company, so I was wondering if the consensus now is that the naya/GWur shell consistently outperforms the bant shell? If so, I'm gonna start trading for/buying lands.
I'm hoping for a successful bant shell as well, but I guess you can't argue with results. Bolts seem like a really solid choice.
CG
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Path to Exile
3 Collected Company
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
Lands
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sejiri Sandsteppe
1 Gavony Township
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
This is what I'm playing. I think the big flex spot is the Loxodon Smiter slot. Geist of Saint Traft seems like it can be very good there with Retreat tapping down blockers while dodging removal. At the moment I'm just playing Smiters because I'm not convinced we need another 3-mana 2/2 and Smiter is good against control and Jund. Alternatively we can play Kitchen Finks for some lifegain against Burn/because the combo does a lot of damage to us, or we can choose to play a more interactive game with a few less creatures (24ish) and dismembers in the main for our twin matchups.
4 Retreats makes Coco worse, and I'd rather draw into a free win than have a 3-mana enchantment in my opening hand. 4 Coco seems bad because you need some interaction, and again it's a card you don't necessarily want to see in your opener.
I've seen lists running 22 lands, but again I feel like you need to his your 3rd land on turn 3 every time, even with dorks, and 22 whiffs too much for my taste. I might even think to go to 24 lands and play one less creature (probably Smiter).
I have two Sejiris in there in the event we accidentally have one in-hand when we need to tutor it up, and one Gavony in there in the event we board the combo out and are aiming for a more fair game with a dork/beatdown plan.
Thoughts?
This deck is just a few days old, it's a newborn baby compared to the other veteran decks of modern. I wouldn't lock in on any build being the "best" build until we get a lot more testing and tournament results in. They both have their merits, so play test both or just play your favorite variant!
Yeah the concept is to leave up one fetchland and when they want to target knight with removal (which will probably happen when you've declared attackers) you crack -> untap knight -> fetch sejiri in response. They can still kill the knight with a 2nd removal while sejiri's ETB trigger is on stack but then that's a 2 for 1.
Spirits