safe to say that stream didnt go quite aswell as hoped.
we finished 2-3
sultai as foretold 2-0
Knightfall mirror 0-2 (after some pretty poor misplays in g2)
DS jund 1-2 (unfortunate mulligans vs discard)
RW Burn 2-0 (i think its a good matchup)
Grixis control 0-2 (matchup is harrrdddddd. made several mistakes g2 and opp had a million cryptic g1)
I definitly felt the difference between when I play alone on mtgo compared to being at the LGS for a modern event during the day and finishing the stream at 11pm at night. I made a lot more mistakes than I feel I normally would, and not being able to feesably take a break between rounds without losing viewers is not ideal. Ill typically take a break or grab some food after a couple of games or a long match.
ON THE POSITIVE SIDE
Lotus cobra is great and it was awesome to see someone else adopting the card and smashing us with it.
And it was fantastic to see so much of this community jump on the stream and discuss cards and lines etc.
hopefully in the near future when I get my laptop fixed I can offer a better stream. (overlay, music, deck bot etc)
And hopefully the next league we play goes a little better
I'd also say the card I'm most curious about is the new Nissa. It's a high bar for non-creatures in our deck not called Path/CoCo/Retreat, but potentially hitting a 3-drop or a utility land each turn seems like it could be good enough.
Yes it is good to see that we all have success with similar decklists, meaning that the deck is finely tuned for the meta as it is.
I am happy with 2 courser/1 tracker in the main, it is the "valuetown" package with the 3 voices! I prefer 2 coursers because against Burn it is our best card and I run into this match-up quite often. Also courser is a more versatile creature than tracker IMO. he gives card advantage or card selection, blocks well, gains life, doesnt die to bolt/anger and all that without needind extra mana investment. Therefore G1 in a wide meta i think the 2 coursers/1 tracker split is better. That being said tracker just takes over the game against midrange and control, so having a second copy in the SB feels good to me.
The botanical sanctum explanation makes sense. I agree with you about merfolk, having a non-island blue source is nice! against Fish, not fetching island goes a long way to winning...another reason why 8 dorks is a good idea!
I have tried eldritch evolution in the past but didnt like it...i think its just my inexperience with it though. I didnt try it for very long, 1 or 2 leagues. I had a game where i sacrificed a dork to evolution and my opponent countered it
We are a CoCo deck and i just want to maximise my creature count. Having 2 copies of each of my SB creatures means that I have better chances to CoCo into them. Also, Staticaster and V.Clique are Flash creatures, they are obviously very effective when cast in the opponent's turn and I feel like it doesnot work well with evolution...
The go-wide aggro decks are just rough matchups with our limited removal, my combined record against Merfolk, Elves and Zoo decks is 4-5 currently. I find that Merfolk is the easier of the three where Reflector Mage really shines and they are not quite as low to the ground. If you cannot find Staticaster or multiple paths against Elves, it can feel really hopeless - in theory you shouldn't want Retreats in sideboarded games against them, but I sometimes have them in on the play as a desperation measure. Kitchen Finks and Voice are great against Zoo, but not so much the other two.
I always keep retreats against Elves and Merfolks because it transforms izzet staticaster into a machine gun! I also side-in 2 negates for elves to try to stop their chord or coco.
@JetpackBlues - Why did you decide to start playing Lotus Cobra and in what ways has it performed well for you?
Cobra can get us some explosive plays sometimes and lets us CoCo T3 like another Dork would. It also works better than a dork for generating mana when comboing. However, I don't see that as worth the slot, especially since I feel like the deck is pretty tight as is.
I'm not too high on Bojuka Bog, it's often too slow against Dredge and Living End and is a little too cute against Snapcaster Mage and Storm where 3x Scavenging Ooze is usually enough - and god forbid that you draw the Bog naturally. I don't like it against Tarmogoyf either, but it is funnily enough good against other Knights of the Reliquary.
It's interesting that you say that, because I am running 2 Scoozes mainboard and dropped my sideboard copy for a Bojuka Bog, precisely because I felt that Scooze was too slow (more precisely, green mana can be a bottleneck and it's nice to have a way to exile the whole graveyard at once). Scooze is bad in multiples, so I hesitate to run 3. Bog seemed preferable to something like Nihil Spellbomb too because it can be tutored by KotR. Is drawing it that big of a problem? Against the combo decks that would necessitate siding it in (e.g. dredge and storm) I would rather have a slower clock but be able to get a valuable graveyard wipe.
Hey everyone. I played against Skuttlespike yesterday (5/7) in the Knightfall mirror. I played 4 leagues yesterday, going 50-, 0-3(lol), 3-2, then another 5-0. I picked up the 2x lotus cobra from Skuttle, and dropped all the quasali pridemages. Lotus cobra has been great for me.
I've been having trouble with storm and dredge, and was considering other options in the board. I run 2x scooze main, but that's about it. I was considering bjouka bog, loaming shaman, or another scooze but I haven't had time to test them. I also have been liking the 1x eldritch evolution in the board, so I am leaning toward trying that singleton loaming shaman. Unfortunately, it's kinda ***** against storm.
I always keep retreats against Elves and Merfolks because it transforms izzet staticaster into a machine gun! I also side-in 2 negates for elves to try to stop their chord or coco.
I don't think that staticaster is worth it vs merfolk. It hits only a narrow set of cards, and none once they have a lord. Retreat isn't great vs merfolk either. in my experience that matchup is all about tempo, and our sideboarding vs them should be focused on that. Vs elves, if you stick a staticaster you probably won that game so no need for retreat.
I've been having trouble with storm and dredge, and was considering other options in the board. I run 2x scooze main, but that's about it. I was considering bjouka bog, loaming shaman, or another scooze but I haven't had time to test them. I also have been liking the 1x eldritch evolution in the board, so I am leaning toward trying that singleton loaming shaman. Unfortunately, it's kinda ***** against storm.
Bojuka bog is a powerful card but I feel like it's too slow vs dredge (usually comes 1-2 turns after the damage is already done). It's good vs storm. Awkward if drawn, just like sejiri steppe.
Loaming shaman is bad, I've tested it and didn't found it useful. Two cards that I believe are really good vs dredge are rhox war monk and burrenton forge tender. With the meta as it is right now I don't think it's worth playing either of those (maybe 1 war monk if you also play eldritch evolution, but that's it). If you want a 1-of vs storm I would recommend gaddock teeg. With storm and eldrazi tron on the top I think x1 gaddock teeg is a good idea.
@brosterman, @jetpackblues, could you explain the rationale behind lotus cobra? I know that primitive knightfall lists (around the release of BFZ) had lotus cobra for the combo kill with kessig wolf run but it was eventually discarded. I've personally never run into any situation where I thought "well, if this qasali pridemage was a lotus cobra I would have more chances of winning this game" but if you have had results with it, I'm interested in how it performed and in which situations.
PD, it's great to have so many of the MTGO 5-0 players in this thread!
@brosterman, @jetpackblues, could you explain the rationale behind lotus cobra?
I've found that unless you have a perfectly curved hand, the deck loses a lot of velocity when your t-1 dork dies, or if you don't have a t-1 dork. Lotus cobra is able to pick up that velocity and let you cast all your spells quicker. And when it's combined with Knight or Tireless Tracker, it makes a lot of mana to dumb into clues, wolfrun, gavony, etc. I've actually never even combo'd with it in play at all.
How I ended up on lotus cobra in the list is a long story. But now after playing I love it because it speeds us up against the unfair decks, and puts us ahead of the fair decks, by allowing us to do multiple things per turn. The synergy between Knight, tracker and our ability to play instant speed (with fetchlands) is very powerful. We can cast additonal spells, or pump with gavony, canopy instantly replaces itself if needed. etc etc.
I cant imagine playing a list without them now. The alternatives (at least for me) is a 3/4th voice or an additonal copy of pridemage or spirit, which I havent found I need, I would much rather the explosiveness of t2 cobra + fetchland.
all I can say is test it. Im hoping more people try it, and im hoping its as good for them as it has been for me.
I've been having trouble with storm and dredge, and was considering other options in the board. I run 2x scooze main, but that's about it. I was considering bjouka bog, loaming shaman, or another scooze but I haven't had time to test them.
played storm 4 times in the last two leagues, 2-2 against it. I think the matchup is god awful, I'm even playing the eidolon of play fair. I just cant figure out what we need to beat them.
I have 3 ooze main and think any less is a mistake at the moment, its good vs dredge, vs DS, and has incedental splash dmg vs burn and storm.
I have 3 ooze main and think any less is a mistake at the moment, its good vs dredge, vs DS, and has incedental splash dmg vs burn and storm.
You are underselling Scavenging Ooze. It can auto-win vs Dredge and Living End, easily controls Tarmogoyf-based matchups, stops infinite Kitchen Finks or Murderous Redcap loops, turns off Snapcaster Mage, can crush opposing Knight of the Reliquarys, ruins Storm, beats reanimation shenanigans, makes Delve decks super sad, turns off Kolaghans's Command and Lingering Souls, has splash damage vs Burn, and has splash damage against any creature heavy deck (will grow big over time).
I'm on an even split of 2 each of Ooze, Voice, Selfless Spirit, Qasali Pridemage, Courser, and Tracker. They've all been great, but as soon as one underperforms, its going to get trimmed down to fit the 3rd Scavenging Ooze.
How I ended up on lotus cobra in the list is a long story. But now after playing I love it because it speeds us up against the unfair decks, and puts us ahead of the fair decks, by allowing us to do multiple things per turn. The synergy between Knight, tracker and our ability to play instant speed (with fetchlands) is very powerful. We can cast additonal spells, or pump with gavony, canopy instantly replaces itself if needed. etc etc.
I cant imagine playing a list without them now. The alternatives (at least for me) is a 3/4th voice or an additonal copy of pridemage or spirit, which I havent found I need, I would much rather the explosiveness of t2 cobra + fetchland.
all I can say is test it. Im hoping more people try it, and im hoping its as good for them as it has been for me.
I played one last night (didn't have access to more, guess I sold mine a while back). Actually saw it in most games, though. Only cast it once, all other times it just sat in my hand as I did better things with my mana or held it to redeploy after a board wipe. Basically just felt like drawing a mana dork.
Our deck has some mana intensive things (mostly Kessig and Gavony, sometimes clues if we're going nuts but that's kind of a win-more scenario) but mostly isn't that mana hungry. While getting to play a three drop and a two drop on turn three when we don't have a dork/it's killed is nice, I don't think it's worth running a ninth mana dork that happens to (usually) be worse than a mana dork since it can't T2 a three drop.
I'll give it some more time, but so far it's exactly what I expected it to be.
On a more positive note, I almost crushed a Modern FNM after not playing for about a month and a half. 2-0 Jeskai Saheeli: tried to Blood Moon me G2, where I GQ'd him off of white in response. Poor boarding; 2-0 GB counters: HB, Balista, Constrictor, etc. Thought it was stompy after G1 where I combo'd T3, boarded really poorly but won thanks to Gavony; 2-1 Burn: Opponent ran out of gas G1 where I was otherwise definitely dead, lost G2 due to a terrible keep and poor boarding, crushed G3 with T2 Finks into CoCo.
Then I played against Skred with 4x Stormbreath dragon... now, I feel like normally this MU would be fine, but Stormbreath is just... ouch. He saw two in both games and I saw one Knight in two games despite casting two CoCos. Really terrible CoCos in this match, but it happens.
Has anyone tested with meddling mage in the current meta? I noticed one of the top 4 lists in San Antonio running four post board in place of the typical negates and unified wills. Seems decent against combo while applying pressure. Worse against burn but he goes up to four coursers post board. Thoughts?
I mentioned rhox war monk as good tech vs dredge and today a list was posted with 2 in the sideboard and 1 evolution! Don't know if it was because of my comment or anything but that's good timing https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/639765
If I get an opportunity I will test the gifts storm matchup. I don't feel like its horrible, it should be more 50-50...
Playing 1 or 2 Gaddock Teeg is the most critical sideboard card against storm and shuts off literally all their pay off spells, Gifts Ungiven and Past in Flames. Decks that are robust in their strategy can be thwarted by preventing them from ever casting anything relevant. If they are fast at rebuilding and consistent at it, then minor disruption isn't going to win you *****. If a deck is super robust and can rebuild their combo fast and efficiently then preventing them from casting their payoffs spells makes their rituals and cantrips almost useless.
the problem with teeg is they board in 4 bolts and some number of anger of the gods against us. And Teeg means we cant company to find a spirit or queller in response.
EDIT he also doesnt stop grapeshot, so theres no reason they cant go off. grapeshot him and continue.
I like teeg alot but dont think its good enough here.
the problem with teeg is they board in 4 bolts and some number of anger of the gods against us. And Teeg means we cant company to find a spirit or queller in response.
If you have teeg then you're (probably) not dying that turn. If they kill teeg, then now you are able to company into queller for whatever key spell they cast now (probably gifts)
Also, both bolts and anger and SB cards. I don't know how much is the storm deck able to dilute their deck for those cards. I would say that angers don't go in, and they only SB in bolts.
I have dropped Bojuka because it was under-performing and you guys convinced me. Also I decided to give another chance to Eldritch Evolution and it did not disappoint: I played two storm decks in a row and won both matches! One of them thanks to eldritch evolution for Eidolon of "fair play" which gives us the win right then...my opponent tutored for echoing truth but I had negate
I am also trying a single Rhox war monk for Burn and maybe dredge...therefore I switched to 2tracker/1courser in the main because I have more powerful cards in the SB for burn.
We will see how it goes in the next few leagues. I am already 5-0 in a friendly modern league beating Jund, Grixis Death Shadow, Storm, Storm and Goblins so its a good start.
we finished 2-3
sultai as foretold 2-0
Knightfall mirror 0-2 (after some pretty poor misplays in g2)
DS jund 1-2 (unfortunate mulligans vs discard)
RW Burn 2-0 (i think its a good matchup)
Grixis control 0-2 (matchup is harrrdddddd. made several mistakes g2 and opp had a million cryptic g1)
I definitly felt the difference between when I play alone on mtgo compared to being at the LGS for a modern event during the day and finishing the stream at 11pm at night. I made a lot more mistakes than I feel I normally would, and not being able to feesably take a break between rounds without losing viewers is not ideal. Ill typically take a break or grab some food after a couple of games or a long match.
ON THE POSITIVE SIDE
Lotus cobra is great and it was awesome to see someone else adopting the card and smashing us with it.
And it was fantastic to see so much of this community jump on the stream and discuss cards and lines etc.
hopefully in the near future when I get my laptop fixed I can offer a better stream. (overlay, music, deck bot etc)
And hopefully the next league we play goes a little better
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
I am happy with 2 courser/1 tracker in the main, it is the "valuetown" package with the 3 voices! I prefer 2 coursers because against Burn it is our best card and I run into this match-up quite often. Also courser is a more versatile creature than tracker IMO. he gives card advantage or card selection, blocks well, gains life, doesnt die to bolt/anger and all that without needind extra mana investment. Therefore G1 in a wide meta i think the 2 coursers/1 tracker split is better. That being said tracker just takes over the game against midrange and control, so having a second copy in the SB feels good to me.
The botanical sanctum explanation makes sense. I agree with you about merfolk, having a non-island blue source is nice! against Fish, not fetching island goes a long way to winning...another reason why 8 dorks is a good idea!
I have tried eldritch evolution in the past but didnt like it...i think its just my inexperience with it though. I didnt try it for very long, 1 or 2 leagues. I had a game where i sacrificed a dork to evolution and my opponent countered it
We are a CoCo deck and i just want to maximise my creature count. Having 2 copies of each of my SB creatures means that I have better chances to CoCo into them. Also, Staticaster and V.Clique are Flash creatures, they are obviously very effective when cast in the opponent's turn and I feel like it doesnot work well with evolution...
I always keep retreats against Elves and Merfolks because it transforms izzet staticaster into a machine gun! I also side-in 2 negates for elves to try to stop their chord or coco.
Cobra can get us some explosive plays sometimes and lets us CoCo T3 like another Dork would. It also works better than a dork for generating mana when comboing. However, I don't see that as worth the slot, especially since I feel like the deck is pretty tight as is.
It's interesting that you say that, because I am running 2 Scoozes mainboard and dropped my sideboard copy for a Bojuka Bog, precisely because I felt that Scooze was too slow (more precisely, green mana can be a bottleneck and it's nice to have a way to exile the whole graveyard at once). Scooze is bad in multiples, so I hesitate to run 3. Bog seemed preferable to something like Nihil Spellbomb too because it can be tutored by KotR. Is drawing it that big of a problem? Against the combo decks that would necessitate siding it in (e.g. dredge and storm) I would rather have a slower clock but be able to get a valuable graveyard wipe.
I've been having trouble with storm and dredge, and was considering other options in the board. I run 2x scooze main, but that's about it. I was considering bjouka bog, loaming shaman, or another scooze but I haven't had time to test them. I also have been liking the 1x eldritch evolution in the board, so I am leaning toward trying that singleton loaming shaman. Unfortunately, it's kinda ***** against storm.
I don't think that staticaster is worth it vs merfolk. It hits only a narrow set of cards, and none once they have a lord. Retreat isn't great vs merfolk either. in my experience that matchup is all about tempo, and our sideboarding vs them should be focused on that. Vs elves, if you stick a staticaster you probably won that game so no need for retreat.
Bojuka bog is a powerful card but I feel like it's too slow vs dredge (usually comes 1-2 turns after the damage is already done). It's good vs storm. Awkward if drawn, just like sejiri steppe.
Loaming shaman is bad, I've tested it and didn't found it useful. Two cards that I believe are really good vs dredge are rhox war monk and burrenton forge tender. With the meta as it is right now I don't think it's worth playing either of those (maybe 1 war monk if you also play eldritch evolution, but that's it). If you want a 1-of vs storm I would recommend gaddock teeg. With storm and eldrazi tron on the top I think x1 gaddock teeg is a good idea.
@brosterman, @jetpackblues, could you explain the rationale behind lotus cobra? I know that primitive knightfall lists (around the release of BFZ) had lotus cobra for the combo kill with kessig wolf run but it was eventually discarded. I've personally never run into any situation where I thought "well, if this qasali pridemage was a lotus cobra I would have more chances of winning this game" but if you have had results with it, I'm interested in how it performed and in which situations.
PD, it's great to have so many of the MTGO 5-0 players in this thread!
L: Maverick
I've found that unless you have a perfectly curved hand, the deck loses a lot of velocity when your t-1 dork dies, or if you don't have a t-1 dork. Lotus cobra is able to pick up that velocity and let you cast all your spells quicker. And when it's combined with Knight or Tireless Tracker, it makes a lot of mana to dumb into clues, wolfrun, gavony, etc. I've actually never even combo'd with it in play at all.
I cant imagine playing a list without them now. The alternatives (at least for me) is a 3/4th voice or an additonal copy of pridemage or spirit, which I havent found I need, I would much rather the explosiveness of t2 cobra + fetchland.
all I can say is test it. Im hoping more people try it, and im hoping its as good for them as it has been for me.
played storm 4 times in the last two leagues, 2-2 against it. I think the matchup is god awful, I'm even playing the eidolon of play fair. I just cant figure out what we need to beat them.
I have 3 ooze main and think any less is a mistake at the moment, its good vs dredge, vs DS, and has incedental splash dmg vs burn and storm.
I am never never calling that card anything else now. Thank you.
You are underselling Scavenging Ooze. It can auto-win vs Dredge and Living End, easily controls Tarmogoyf-based matchups, stops infinite Kitchen Finks or Murderous Redcap loops, turns off Snapcaster Mage, can crush opposing Knight of the Reliquarys, ruins Storm, beats reanimation shenanigans, makes Delve decks super sad, turns off Kolaghans's Command and Lingering Souls, has splash damage vs Burn, and has splash damage against any creature heavy deck (will grow big over time).
I'm on an even split of 2 each of Ooze, Voice, Selfless Spirit, Qasali Pridemage, Courser, and Tracker. They've all been great, but as soon as one underperforms, its going to get trimmed down to fit the 3rd Scavenging Ooze.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I played one last night (didn't have access to more, guess I sold mine a while back). Actually saw it in most games, though. Only cast it once, all other times it just sat in my hand as I did better things with my mana or held it to redeploy after a board wipe. Basically just felt like drawing a mana dork.
Our deck has some mana intensive things (mostly Kessig and Gavony, sometimes clues if we're going nuts but that's kind of a win-more scenario) but mostly isn't that mana hungry. While getting to play a three drop and a two drop on turn three when we don't have a dork/it's killed is nice, I don't think it's worth running a ninth mana dork that happens to (usually) be worse than a mana dork since it can't T2 a three drop.
I'll give it some more time, but so far it's exactly what I expected it to be.
On a more positive note, I almost crushed a Modern FNM after not playing for about a month and a half. 2-0 Jeskai Saheeli: tried to Blood Moon me G2, where I GQ'd him off of white in response. Poor boarding; 2-0 GB counters: HB, Balista, Constrictor, etc. Thought it was stompy after G1 where I combo'd T3, boarded really poorly but won thanks to Gavony; 2-1 Burn: Opponent ran out of gas G1 where I was otherwise definitely dead, lost G2 due to a terrible keep and poor boarding, crushed G3 with T2 Finks into CoCo.
Then I played against Skred with 4x Stormbreath dragon... now, I feel like normally this MU would be fine, but Stormbreath is just... ouch. He saw two in both games and I saw one Knight in two games despite casting two CoCos. Really terrible CoCos in this match, but it happens.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/639765
If I get an opportunity I will test the gifts storm matchup. I don't feel like its horrible, it should be more 50-50...
L: Maverick
EDIT he also doesnt stop grapeshot, so theres no reason they cant go off. grapeshot him and continue.
I like teeg alot but dont think its good enough here.
If you have teeg then you're (probably) not dying that turn. If they kill teeg, then now you are able to company into queller for whatever key spell they cast now (probably gifts)
Also, both bolts and anger and SB cards. I don't know how much is the storm deck able to dilute their deck for those cards. I would say that angers don't go in, and they only SB in bolts.
L: Maverick
2 Negate
2 Unified Will
3 Reflector Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Eldritch evolution
1 Stony Silence
I have dropped Bojuka because it was under-performing and you guys convinced me. Also I decided to give another chance to Eldritch Evolution and it did not disappoint: I played two storm decks in a row and won both matches! One of them thanks to eldritch evolution for Eidolon of "fair play" which gives us the win right then...my opponent tutored for echoing truth but I had negate
I am also trying a single Rhox war monk for Burn and maybe dredge...therefore I switched to 2tracker/1courser in the main because I have more powerful cards in the SB for burn.
We will see how it goes in the next few leagues. I am already 5-0 in a friendly modern league beating Jund, Grixis Death Shadow, Storm, Storm and Goblins so its a good start.