Wolf Run also makes Blessed Alliance a much better side board card. I've swung with knight into a chump blocker and then used blessed Alliance to grab Wolf Run and win in quite a few games.
Fair points, but I'm just not still entirely sold on it. Has Rogue's Passage ever been floated around? It accomplishes a similar enough goal(letting Knight get through for Damage)
The only real big threats in the deck are Knights. Kessig lets you turn any other creature into a threat. Rogue's passage on anything that's not a Knight seems pretty weak compared to Wolf run.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
1) Rogue's passage requires 4 mana to use, kessig at 4 mana gives +2/0 and trample, so the effect is weaker. Moreover, kessig gives your combo kill more range while rogue's passage won't be able to deal more than ~20 damage.
2) Rogue's Passage does nothing to turn your late game dorks into threats. One weakness with the deck is running so many dorks can make late-game draws awkward in resource-low situations. If you are looking to topdeck a threat and get a mana dork, kessig will turn your dork into a threat in a way that rogue's passage simply can't.
The only cost for this upgrade it to trade in one land for a stomping ground, which is low enough buy-in to make it easily worth it. Not a close call imo.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Going to play in my first FNM tonight rather than just kitchen table rounds with my buddies. I'm on the fence about some of the 2 of creatures. I'm running 1 Scooze and 2 Coursers. Would it be better to run 2 Scoozes and 1 Tireless Tracker instead?
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I'm thinking about playing westvale abbey as one of the utility lands in the deck. it gives you an entirely land based way to win the game, it can convert lategame dorks into a big threat, and it also works well with either gavony or wolf-run (or at least I believe it does). it does seem mana intensive, but I think it looks worthwhile. Has anyone here tried the card and been satisfied (or hated it)?
Went 2-1 last night. Beat Bant Spirits in 2, Goblins in 3 (Kichen Finks is an amazing card). Lost to Grixis control at 3. I ran 2 geists in my sideboard and 2 voice maindeck and those seemed like the cards that can best it. Unified Will worked up until he realized that I was running that over negate and starting throwing snapcasters and tasigurs at me. Anyone have any good strategies to board into grixis. 3 people played it last night. Also thanks for all the help!
Went 2-1 last night. Beat Bant Spirits in 2, Goblins in 3 (Kichen Finks is an amazing card). Lost to Grixis control at 3. I ran 2 geists in my sideboard and 2 voice maindeck and those seemed like the cards that can best it. Unified Will worked up until he realized that I was running that over negate and starting throwing snapcasters and tasigurs at me. Anyone have any good strategies to board into grixis. 3 people played it last night. Also thanks for all the help!
I've tested a lot the spirits vs grixis matchup and I guess that this one will play in a similar way. If he's running anger of the gods/pyroclasm, geist stops being a good card. In the end, if you play around his sweepers you can grind them out. Ancestral visions is one hell of a card and their main way of outgrind you, so if you have any way to stop it (queller/spirit of the labyrinth/unified will) it's a good idea to use it for that. Scavenging ooze is one of the best cards in the deck so don't run it out into a bolt or something, because you really want to stop them from casting cryptics/kolaghans again and again. If they run discard, board out the combo. If they don't run discard, there might be an argument to leave some copies of retreat.
One last thing on Wolf Run. It can be activated after blocks which enables quite a few more combat tricks. Personally, I love trading a bird for a Thought-knot seer.
I played Westvale Abbey for about three months. I love the card. It provides many moments where your goal becomes to just get them to 9 life. Given the puesdo ramp that knightfall does, it's not that hard to have the mana to flip it. If anything, it's usually harder to have five creatures. The thing is, I ran into two issues with it. 1. I ran it before Spell Queller and the two cards have too much anti-synergy. 2. Personally, I generally found Wolf Run to be better (at the time I ran all 4 colorless lands). They both do roughly the same thing in terms of trying to finish the game off. Wolf Run is less risky and better for comboing.
Grixsis Control's game plan is to 1-1 or 2-1 everything. Thereby, cards like voice and company are inherently good against them. The matchup is fairly skill intensive but the more 2-1 you run, the better your chance of winning.
Someone mentioned that Kira might be a good sideboard slot to keep your threats on the board, I think I might try that and Spirit of the Labyrinth. Can you Spell Queller Ancestral Visions when the suspend is up or only when it is cast?
I'm not sure if this is what you're saying or not, but it reads as incorrect to me.
1) You can't exile Ancestral Vision with Spell Queller when your opponent suspends it. The rulings state "Exiling a card with suspend isn’t casting that card. This action doesn’t use the stack and can’t be responded to." There's no spell on the stack - AV goes from their hand to exile without ever being a spell.
2) You canSpell Queller it when The wording of suspend is "When the last [time counter] is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost." When it comes off suspend, it is a spell on the stack because it was cast - just like it was cast from hand. That's when it can be exiled.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Kira is not really good in this deck, it's anti synergy with retreat, kessig and blessed alliance... you can try though.
You can only queller the visions when cast
Just to clarify, the way suspend works you pay the cost, and put the card into exile with counters on it. each upkeep there is a triggered ability to remove a counter from the ancestral visions, and if after that there are no counters on the suspended card, it is cast without paying its mana cost. this is the point at which you can spell queller the ancestral visions, not when mana is paid. if you can stifle the trigger to remove a counter that effectively delays the spell by a turn, and if you have an eldrazi processor or something you can also put the exiled spell into the graveyard, which functionally counters it.
you may also want to know that if your spell queller is killed the ancestral vision will be put onto the stack immediately, and not into suspend (if you didn't already know that)
Yes, I know how it works. That's why I said cast, suspending is an ability. Thanks for the explanations though, I'm sure that many people who read the thread found them useful ^^
You just either wait for your opponent to tap out or for you to have no other options. PS, surprise flipping ormenhdal for the win after a cryptic tap is one of the greatest feelings in magic.
The only real big threats in the deck are Knights. Kessig lets you turn any other creature into a threat. Rogue's passage on anything that's not a Knight seems pretty weak compared to Wolf run.
1) Rogue's passage requires 4 mana to use, kessig at 4 mana gives +2/0 and trample, so the effect is weaker. Moreover, kessig gives your combo kill more range while rogue's passage won't be able to deal more than ~20 damage.
2) Rogue's Passage does nothing to turn your late game dorks into threats. One weakness with the deck is running so many dorks can make late-game draws awkward in resource-low situations. If you are looking to topdeck a threat and get a mana dork, kessig will turn your dork into a threat in a way that rogue's passage simply can't.
The only cost for this upgrade it to trade in one land for a stomping ground, which is low enough buy-in to make it easily worth it. Not a close call imo.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I've tested a lot the spirits vs grixis matchup and I guess that this one will play in a similar way. If he's running anger of the gods/pyroclasm, geist stops being a good card. In the end, if you play around his sweepers you can grind them out. Ancestral visions is one hell of a card and their main way of outgrind you, so if you have any way to stop it (queller/spirit of the labyrinth/unified will) it's a good idea to use it for that. Scavenging ooze is one of the best cards in the deck so don't run it out into a bolt or something, because you really want to stop them from casting cryptics/kolaghans again and again. If they run discard, board out the combo. If they don't run discard, there might be an argument to leave some copies of retreat.
L: Maverick
I played Westvale Abbey for about three months. I love the card. It provides many moments where your goal becomes to just get them to 9 life. Given the puesdo ramp that knightfall does, it's not that hard to have the mana to flip it. If anything, it's usually harder to have five creatures. The thing is, I ran into two issues with it. 1. I ran it before Spell Queller and the two cards have too much anti-synergy. 2. Personally, I generally found Wolf Run to be better (at the time I ran all 4 colorless lands). They both do roughly the same thing in terms of trying to finish the game off. Wolf Run is less risky and better for comboing.
Grixsis Control's game plan is to 1-1 or 2-1 everything. Thereby, cards like voice and company are inherently good against them. The matchup is fairly skill intensive but the more 2-1 you run, the better your chance of winning.
You can only queller the visions when cast
L: Maverick
I'm not sure if this is what you're saying or not, but it reads as incorrect to me.
1) You can't exile Ancestral Vision with Spell Queller when your opponent suspends it. The rulings state "Exiling a card with suspend isn’t casting that card. This action doesn’t use the stack and can’t be responded to." There's no spell on the stack - AV goes from their hand to exile without ever being a spell.
2) You can Spell Queller it when The wording of suspend is "When the last [time counter] is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost." When it comes off suspend, it is a spell on the stack because it was cast - just like it was cast from hand. That's when it can be exiled.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Just to clarify, the way suspend works you pay the cost, and put the card into exile with counters on it. each upkeep there is a triggered ability to remove a counter from the ancestral visions, and if after that there are no counters on the suspended card, it is cast without paying its mana cost. this is the point at which you can spell queller the ancestral visions, not when mana is paid. if you can stifle the trigger to remove a counter that effectively delays the spell by a turn, and if you have an eldrazi processor or something you can also put the exiled spell into the graveyard, which functionally counters it.
you may also want to know that if your spell queller is killed the ancestral vision will be put onto the stack immediately, and not into suspend (if you didn't already know that)
L: Maverick
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