I must again state that probably 75% of the cards in this deck are my buddy's. He had the deck built as a control variant, and I borrowed cards from him, as well as added my own to make it what it is currently
Piggybacking off of the last statement, the horrible sideboard is a product of availability. The cards in the board were all sitting in binders; I have yet to buy a single sideboard card for this deck. I'm currently working on building up Ad Nauseam. Most of my Magic money is going toward completing that, since I've been at it for the better part of 3 years. Once I complete Ad Nauseam, I'm going to try to get the sideboard cards needed to push my list to the next level
The same can be said about the odd fetch configuration. Having 4 Strands - probably our least useful fetch - only 3 Heaths and only 2 Rainforests is by no means optimal. This is another point I intend to address once my other pet project is complete.
All that being said, I have very rarely run into problems with the landbase. Sub-optimal is far from unplayable, and I've still had a ton of fun and success with this list. On the flip side, more than anything, the sideboard is what hurts me. Stony Silences seem like an absolute must. Kataki has yet to prove useful for me, as much as I love the card. Cutting him would reduce my threat density post-board however, and it sucks to have to board out CoCo because you brought in a ton of non-creature answers. Dismember can be great, but likely won't make the cut post-Eldrazi.
Aside from these issues, I'm very happy with this list. Even so, I'm sure there are tweaks to be made. Critiques are very welcome.
Cool write-up Drag0ns. How's the rogue's passage been working for you?
Can someone explain the benefit from having a fetch available when combo'ing? Something with priority and being able to protect the Knight I'm guessing?
Cool write-up Drag0ns. How's the rogue's passage been working for you?
Can someone explain the benefit from having a fetch available when combo'ing? Something with priority and being able to protect the Knight I'm guessing?
If you go off and they remove the knight in response, you get to crack fetch -» get land -» untap knight (Retreat trigger) -» sac some land (KotR ability) to get a Sejiri Steppe -» Void their removal spell -» Win -» Buy a soda as a reward to yourself.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Rogue's Passage has been very useful. I've stolen quite a few games just by grabbing it with Knight with 4 other lands. I toyed with taking it out for a while, but there are certain times when it's better than Kessig in a non-combo situation. Being able to break a ground stall with Geist or a giant KotR can be game-winning on its own. I can see a situation later on where I might take it out, but for now, I'm happy to have it.
Cool write-up Drag0ns. How's the rogue's passage been working for you?
Can someone explain the benefit from having a fetch available when combo'ing? Something with priority and being able to protect the Knight I'm guessing?
If you go off and they remove the knight in response, you get to crack fetch -» get land -» untap knight (Retreat trigger) -» sac some land (KotR ability) to get a Sejiri Steppe -» Void their removal spell -» Win -» Buy a soda as a reward to yourself.
Also keep in mind that if you have path to exile, you can hit your own creature to untap the knight as well. Sometimes this is relevant if you don't have the fetch but you have a path+creature.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
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I participated this tuesday in a BOM qualification tournament, there was not a lot of participant, 6 in total
So i played this amazing deck at this tournament and i finished second in 3 Rounds; 1 loss (1-2) and 2 wins (2-1 and 2-0)
here is the list, that is quite unusual (4 mantis rider)
I'll try to remember my matches as best as possible :
Round 1 vs Esper control ? (1-2): I don't remember well theses games;
G1: my initial hand was not that good but was ok (2 paths and 1bolt, 2 creatures and 2 lands). I managed to play my creature, he wrath'ed the board, played restoration angel and then he won cause i drawed only lands. G2: There is not much to say, he didn't get a lot of lands and i drawed the combo turn 3 i won G3: i kept a hand with 1 land and 1 noble, i drawed another noble but no land before turn 4. Then he wrath'ed the board and i was stuck with 2 lands and mantis, geist and knight in hand. he then played 2 restoration angel. i lost
Round 2 vs W/G stompy ? (2-0):
G1: he played treetop village, i played noble and then turn 2 i played loxodon smiter. He played nothing until turn 3 where he played Dungrove Elder. At some point, he attacked with a Dryad militant,and his Dungrove Elder and i blocked the last one with loxodon, he played vines of vastwood and so i lost the loxodon but i managed to put more threats on the board (loxodon and knight) (despite the fact that i played a blank collected company too ...) that were bigger than his threats and i kicked his ass. G2: it was harder this game. My hand was not good but i decided to keep it, i had 2 War monk, collected company, a bolt and 3 lands. he played turn 1 bird of paradise, turn 2 loxodon smiter, turn 3 dryad militant and Dungrove Elder and turn 4 a second loxodon and treetop. I played nothing before turn 3 where i played rhox war monk and i was already at 8 because of 2 attacks of loxodon.
I then blocked the dryad with my monk, but he boosted one of his creature and i was down to 2 life, I bolted his dryad.
Next turn he attacked again with 2 loxodon and 1 Dungrove Elder. I only had war monk on the board, i played collected company and hit another monk and a 5/5 knight. I blocked and managed to regain some lifes and to kill 1 loxodon and the dungrove elder. He then played Ooze and regain some lifes too (he goes to 20 life)
And then, during my turn I played the retreat I drawed a few turns before and combo off and won.
Round 2 vs Mono Black Discard (2-1):
G1: i took a mulligan to 6 and he discard me all my creatures, but the game lasted a long time. I managed to drop some creatures but he played ensnaring bridge + Liliana of the Veil + Shrieking Affliction= he won ... G2: He mulligan to 6 and never had more than 4 lands, and I managed to played geist turn 2 and mantis turn 3. I won pretty quickly despite the removals he played. G3: this games was much more interesting. i had a good hand and him too. I played turn 1 nactal, he killed it. turn 2 I played noble, he played liliana. Turn 3 I played geist, he killed the noble and -2 liliana (need to sacrifice geist). He played ensnaring bridge and Shrieking Affliction, during this time I bolted his liliana to kill it and played a noble. we were both empty handed and in topdeck mode, I could only attack with my noble and he inflicted me 3 damage a turn with Affliction. I was at 2 life and him at 3 life when i draw Quasali Pridemage, I dealt 2 damages with noble and sacrified quasali to kill Affliction. He didn't draw anything to kill my noble, being at 1 life, I won next turn.
I was testing Mantis Rider during this tournament and i found it very aggressive and quite usefull to protect much bigger threat (opponent have a tendency to kill it first) but it always did 3 damages before being killed.
The combo goes out approximatly 1 games out of 4.
Stirring wildwood was not helpfull against control match up and i think i'll replace it by a island or another Canopy.
Hope you enjoy the review
Hello! Welcome to the thread!
Thank you for posting your results. Your list looks very interesting, definitely more aggressive than most of what I've seen on here. I see that you're not playing any Birds. With the Bolts, are you able to get some good value out of Geist? I assume you don't get to play him on T2 overwhelmingly often.
Also, just out of curiosity, how many games would you say you have with your list? I only ask because of your "1 in 4" comment. I would say I see the combo, and am able to win from it probably 1 game in 7 or 8, just off the top of my head.
Reflector mage is seeing some play, and is a bit easier to cast and provides some tempo which will help against aggro and midrange. Tarmogoyf, and even Voice of Resurgence would help your mana curve as you are a bit light on 2-drops considering the 4 dorks. Rhox war monk moved to maindeck over mantis rider might be better as the lifelink solves the attack/block issue while not dying to bolt. That could open SB space for Vendilion Clique and another meddling mage for combo/ramp matchups.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
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I'm looking to take a break from my regular decks. I've been toying with some synergies that I'd like to use to put together something on the sweet/janky/cute end of the spectrum:
* T4: Tutor Ranger. Untap Yisan, replay forest. Tutor Bell-ringer, untap team. Tutor Resto, blink bell-ringer, untap team. Tutor kiki, go infinite.
KotR gives another thing for Bell-ringer and Ranger to untap. Retreat gives another way to untap Yisan. I don't mind 3.5 colours splashing red for Wolf Run/Nacatl but Kiki feels like too much? I recall some hangarback walker lists which also seems fun. Fauna shaman is another consideration. I'm still looking for:
* Any other untap targets?
* Alternate creature combos in bant at 5-7 mana? (5,6 mana clones exist that could replace kiki in the chain)
Jankier the cards the better; I'm just looking for something fun to play locally.
I'm looking to take a break from my regular decks. I've been toying with some synergies that I'd like to use to put together something on the sweet/janky/cute end of the spectrum:
* T4: Tutor Ranger. Untap Yisan, replay forest. Tutor Bell-ringer, untap team. Tutor Resto, blink bell-ringer, untap team. Tutor kiki, go infinite.
KotR gives another thing for Bell-ringer and Ranger to untap. Retreat gives another way to untap Yisan. I don't mind 3.5 colours splashing red for Wolf Run/Nacatl but Kiki feels like too much? I recall some hangarback walker lists which also seems fun. Fauna shaman is another consideration. I'm still looking for:
* Any other untap targets?
* Alternate creature combos in bant at 5-7 mana? (5,6 mana clones exist that could replace kiki in the chain)
Jankier the cards the better; I'm just looking for something fun to play locally.
If you're going that route, you might be able to jam in the Spike Feeder+Archangel of Thune combo.
If you're going that route, you might be able to jam in the Spike Feeder+Archangel of Thune combo.
I considered it but I was hoping for something to fit into a Yisan chain. I can get Thune after resto, but bell-ringer at 3 enables everything.
That being said, since posting I've come up with: 5cmc clone (Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Mercurial Pretender or Body Double) gets Yisan to 6. Deadeye Navigator on Resto/Bell-ringer generates infinite mana and can reset Yisan counters too. "Put any creature from my deck into play at instant speed" might as well be infinite.
If you're going that route, you might be able to jam in the Spike Feeder+Archangel of Thune combo.
I considered it but I was hoping for something to fit into a Yisan chain. I can get Thune after resto, but bell-ringer at 3 enables everything.
That being said, since posting I've come up with: 5cmc clone (Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Mercurial Pretender or Body Double) gets Yisan to 6. Deadeye Navigator on Resto/Bell-ringer generates infinite mana and can reset Yisan counters too. "Put any creature from my deck into play at instant speed" might as well be infinite.
Anyways, with all due respect though this thread is really meant for Bant Company/Knightfall. I feel like the Yisan combo set up is straying way too far out of that territory. This thread isn't very active anyways, so you might have better luck creating a new one altogether.
Thread went a little dead there. Thought I'd liven it up.
I really seem to have hit a wall here. I'm trying to improve my play, and it doesn't seem to be doing any good. I haven't won any significant matches in a while. The only ones I seem to do well in are random rogue brews. It just seems like this deck really lacks the power to punch through past the first couple of turns. It's very demoralizing to be at parity in so many games, and then just spiral downward due to a bad topdeck.
Has anyone else experienced this, or could it just be a freak set of coincidences? If so, what did you do to remedy the situation?
Thread went a little dead there. Thought I'd liven it up.
I really seem to have hit a wall here. I'm trying to improve my play, and it doesn't seem to be doing any good. I haven't won any significant matches in a while. The only ones I seem to do well in are random rogue brews. It just seems like this deck really lacks the power to punch through past the first couple of turns. It's very demoralizing to be at parity in so many games, and then just spiral downward due to a bad topdeck.
Has anyone else experienced this, or could it just be a freak set of coincidences? If so, what did you do to remedy the situation?
What's the exact list you're running? I've actually been on a roll lately with Bant Company. I'm playing a very similar list to the one that got 8th place at GP Bologna and it's been absolutely stellar.
I took a look at the Top 8 list when you mentioned it. This list is much more focused on having the combo as an alternative win than that one. That does, unfortunately, make Company worse. I've been considering cutting it, but it's gotten me out of some tough spots.
I have been toying around with the idea of using Meddling Mage. The card seems good, but it just doesn't feel impactful enough for my tastes. All the 2 drops I currently play have the fail-safe of still being a bear with an effect on combat, whereas Meddling Mage can very well end up just being a 2/2 against something like Jund or Lantern.
It's also possible that my sideboard is holding me back more than I give it credit for. It's not awful in its current state, but it could definitely use work. Although, Vapor Snag has been an absolute house more times than I can count.
DragonsBloodQ: I play a similar list, but I feel like my SB is much tighter. I have not played it since Oath (I've been focusing on UW control for a couple months). Prior to that, I have top8'd every local GPT, PPTQ or 1k since Retreat was printed.
First a couple small things that may be adding up. You need green fetches to get a forest turn 1 in most matchups. This protects against burn and other hyperaggro like affinity, but also insulates against bloodmoon. Ghostquarter is a bullet that will save some games such as an otherwise unstoppable inkmoth nexus.
As with most decks, sideboarding is a bit of an art. Rhox war monk replaces Geist in all creature matchups. Mindcensor replaces Smiter against a few decks like scapeshift, abzan company, elves etc. Forgetender comes in for a couple birds if red sweepers are a thing. Due to Kozilek's Return being printed, those might need to be replaced should that new tool become and issue. Kataki comes in for 1 retreat and witness against affinity. Clique replaces witness against combo decks. Mage/skite come in for scooze or pridemage as the matchup dictates.
Company gives us extra reach to find SB creatures, and our SB needs to reflect that by focusing on hatebears instead of noncreature spells. I also don't like Elspeth as that weakens both the company and the retreat plans. Warmonk with exalted or kessig has won many creature based matchups - has been much better than finks for me since we are not abusing persist.
I find that SB games are a bit better for the deck than pre-board since we can find the hatebears with company.
I took a look at the Top 8 list when you mentioned it. This list is much more focused on having the combo as an alternative win than that one. That does, unfortunately, make Company worse. I've been considering cutting it, but it's gotten me out of some tough spots.
I have been toying around with the idea of using Meddling Mage. The card seems good, but it just doesn't feel impactful enough for my tastes. All the 2 drops I currently play have the fail-safe of still being a bear with an effect on combat, whereas Meddling Mage can very well end up just being a 2/2 against something like Jund or Lantern.
It's also possible that my sideboard is holding me back more than I give it credit for. It's not awful in its current state, but it could definitely use work. Although, Vapor Snag has been an absolute house more times than I can count.
I say, don't knock Meddling Mage until you try it. I thought the same thing for awhile, but after using it, I surprised myself at how well I knew my opponent's decks, and was able to name cards that they would have been able to otherwise progress their game plan, or stop mine. Against Jund, you name cards like Liliana of the Veil, Fulminator Mage, Dark Confidant, etc. Seriously, it's really powerful once you realize just how many cards you yourself know to name against almost any given deck. I played the deck with the Retreat combo for awhile too, thinking that it also got me out of rough situations, but I think that is a bad mindset to have. Retreat is usually bad in multiples, and as much as I enjoy it's multiple applications, if I didn't already have a Knight on the board, I often found myself playing anything else to advance my actual board state. Dropping Retreat allowed me to run more creatures, which made Company much better. Some of the major differences from that Top 8 list I changed, was dropping a Scooze, and the Intrepid Heros for three Tarmogoyfs. On the otherhand, I was very skeptical about the Phantasmal Images, but they've seriously been great. I played a match just yesterday where I went EOT Collected Company>Reflector Mage+Phantasmal Image, against an opposing board of mana dorks and a Primeval Titan. Phantasmal Image became a Primeval Titan, and Reflector Mage bounced theirs. This play instantly won me the game, as I was able to get 4 lands out of it, smash in for something like 12 damage (My own board plus my new Titan) and prevented my opponent from doing anything useful all of their next turn. Phantasmal Image is so good against big decks that don't use a lot of target removal (Like these green devotion/ramp decks). Obviously you side them out against Jund and the like, but they've been great otherwise. I've been playing the list a ton, and so far, I've really only noticed one major bad match up in Scapeshift. That deck doesn't care at all what we're doing since it can just win by casting its namesake card. I discovered to myself that in *most* match ups, I'm running better creatures than my opponent's, so if I ran countermagic, I don't typically care at all about using it on their creatures. What I do notice I am in need of, is being able to have a way of stopping important noncreature spells. So I'm gonna add 4 Negates, somewhere. Probably all just in the Sideboard.
Regarding the Retreat Combo, I like to think of it like this... Birthing Pod was a combo deck during like 99% of its life. That other 1% was it's very brief time at the very end of its time, right before its ban. During that 1% time-frame, the deck was barely a combo deck. It was a value deck. I think most people even referred to it as Rhino Pod (Instead of Angel Pod or Melira Pod when it was a combo deck). The deck was winning more than ever, because instead of trying to assemble combo pieces, it simply out-valued its opponents. Why is drawing cards considered one of the most powerful things you can do? Because it garners advantage. Getting the most value out of your cards is great advantage too. I think that's the best way to play this deck now. I'm winning more than I ever have with any other deck using this list, which is seriously such a good feeling as someone who used to be a Twin player. As of now, on MTGO, I've played exactly 221 matches with this deck. 73 losses, 7 draws, and 148 wins. That is just a sliver over a 2.0 win/lose ratio (My time with Twin, I think I had myself at like 1.4ish, granted I had a lot more matches with that deck). But I owe that all to this deck. I think of myself as a very average player. I occasionally have some great plays, I occasionally make mistakes, I mostly play average. I know it's super anecdotal, but this deck just feels very special.
I am currently wanting to add Negate somewhere in my Sideboard. Also, just for fun, I've been playing around with 1-2 mainboard Worships, which has been hilarious. I'm not sure if I'll keep them, but they have been really fun.
(These statistics show Bant Company having the highest win percentage among ALL decks in Modern. It's pretty old data, but the fact that Bant Company as a deck has been so under the radar, I think it still shows relevant information regarding this deck itself, especially since the deck has evolved more favorably in my opinion, and it top 8'd GP Bologna more recently.)
I took a look at the Top 8 list when you mentioned it. This list is much more focused on having the combo as an alternative win than that one. That does, unfortunately, make Company worse. I've been considering cutting it, but it's gotten me out of some tough spots.
I have been toying around with the idea of using Meddling Mage. The card seems good, but it just doesn't feel impactful enough for my tastes. All the 2 drops I currently play have the fail-safe of still being a bear with an effect on combat, whereas Meddling Mage can very well end up just being a 2/2 against something like Jund or Lantern.
It's also possible that my sideboard is holding me back more than I give it credit for. It's not awful in its current state, but it could definitely use work. Although, Vapor Snag has been an absolute house more times than I can count.
I say, don't knock Meddling Mage until you try it. I thought the same thing for awhile, but after using it, I surprised myself at how well I knew my opponent's decks, and was able to name cards that they would have been able to otherwise progress their game plan, or stop mine. Against Jund, you name cards like Liliana of the Veil, Fulminator Mage, Dark Confidant, etc. Seriously, it's really powerful once you realize just how many cards you yourself know to name against almost any given deck. I played the deck with the Retreat combo for awhile too, thinking that it also got me out of rough situations, but I think that is a bad mindset to have. Retreat is usually bad in multiples, and as much as I enjoy it's multiple applications, if I didn't already have a Knight on the board, I often found myself playing anything else to advance my actual board state. Dropping Retreat allowed me to run more creatures, which made Company much better. Some of the major differences from that Top 8 list I changed, was dropping a Scooze, and the Intrepid Heros for three Tarmogoyfs. On the otherhand, I was very skeptical about the Phantasmal Images, but they've seriously been great. I played a match just yesterday where I went EOT Collected Company>Reflector Mage+Phantasmal Image, against an opposing board of mana dorks and a Primeval Titan. Phantasmal Image became a Primeval Titan, and Reflector Mage bounced theirs. This play instantly won me the game, as I was able to get 4 lands out of it, smash in for something like 12 damage (My own board plus my new Titan) and prevented my opponent from doing anything useful all of their next turn. Phantasmal Image is so good against big decks that don't use a lot of target removal (Like these green devotion/ramp decks). Obviously you side them out against Jund and the like, but they've been great otherwise. I've been playing the list a ton, and so far, I've really only noticed one major bad match up in Scapeshift. That deck doesn't care at all what we're doing since it can just win by casting its namesake card. I discovered to myself that in *most* match ups, I'm running better creatures than my opponent's, so if I ran countermagic, I don't typically care at all about using it on their creatures. What I do notice I am in need of, is being able to have a way of stopping important noncreature spells. So I'm gonna add 4 Negates, somewhere. Probably all just in the Sideboard.
Regarding the Retreat Combo, I like to think of it like this... Birthing Pod was a combo deck during like 99% of its life. That other 1% was it's very brief time at the very end of its time, right before its ban. During that 1% time-frame, the deck was barely a combo deck. It was a value deck. I think most people even referred to it as Rhino Pod (Instead of Angel Pod or Melira Pod when it was a combo deck). The deck was winning more than ever, because instead of trying to assemble combo pieces, it simply out-valued its opponents. Why is drawing cards considered one of the most powerful things you can do? Because it garners advantage. Getting the most value out of your cards is great advantage too. I think that's the best way to play this deck now. I'm winning more than I ever have with any other deck using this list, which is seriously such a good feeling as someone who used to be a Twin player. As of now, on MTGO, I've played exactly 221 matches with this deck. 73 losses, 7 draws, and 148 wins. That is just a sliver over a 2.0 win/lose ratio (My time with Twin, I think I had myself at like 1.4ish, granted I had a lot more matches with that deck). But I owe that all to this deck. I think of myself as a very average player. I occasionally have some great plays, I occasionally make mistakes, I mostly play average. I know it's super anecdotal, but this deck just feels very special.
Great write-up here, very enjoyable to read. You make a number of good points. I'm not entirely sold on Meddling Mage yet, but you certainly give some solid rationale on it, and I could easily see it slotting in down the road. While I think you have great reasons for playing your version, here's my perspective on mine.
The way you're describing playing the deck makes it seem like more of a tempo deck, where you're trading resources with your opponent. That's fine, if that's what you want to do, but that's not why I picked this deck. I started without the Coralhelms (due to not having them), and the deck felt clunky and bad. It was a slower, less consistent Hatebears deck with an extra color. I knew from then that I at LEAST needed Coralhelm in there. That being said, I rarely play a game solely to hit the combo unless both pieces are in my opener. To its credit, Coralhelm can be really awesome on its own. I agree that I usually want to play a creature it its place, but if it's late game and I have the choice between Geist, Birds, and Retreat, I'm probably playing Retreat. Being able to tap down blockers with extra land makes those draws far less dead in the late game.
I picked this deck for a lot of reasons. Geist, Voice, Combo, colors. I have always been a big fan of Hatebears, but the gameplan seems too stagnant for my tastes. Additionally, I'm a combo junkie at heart. This deck really put all that together for me. Playing it as a tempo/value deck wouldn't scratch the itch in the same way. At that point, it starts to feel like a more anemic version of Abzan (in my opinion).
While I think this deck is strong, and has the potential to be competitive, a big draw for me is the fun factor. If I wanted to play pure combo, I could play Ad Nauseam (which I almost have built). If I wanted to just turn creatures sideways, I'd probably play straight GW. Being able to play awesome value creatures, AND Geist of Saint Traft, AND win out of nowhere with a crazy combo just seems too awesome to make concessions around. I love the nut draws with T2 Geist, or T3 Knightfall. Knightfall does so much of what I want to be doing in a game of Magic.
I do want to reiterate that I mean no disrespect or offense to your choice of deck. It sounds like you've found a list that really works for your style of play, while also posting respectable results. I just don't think that the list you play fills that role for me. It's probably worth noting that I accidentally linked my old list. I swapped out 3 Goyfs for 2 Scooze and another Voice. Now that I've done that, I'm very happy with my list. I'm unhappy with my ability to play it to its fullest potential.
My issue is that I seem to be losing a LOT of games, and not to the deck itself. Sure, there are some bad topdecks on my end, or good ones from my opponent, but I know that I could adjust my play to pick up some percentage points. I'm at the point where the basics have become rote, and I'm hoping to get some advanced strategy and lines of play to help me better capitalize on what this deck does. I'd also be willing to make a couple minor tweaks (adding Mage, switching up my sideboard(plan)) but I'm quite hesitant to make any huge, sweeping changes to my maindeck, at least for the time being.
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As you wish! Here's what I'm working with at the moment:
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Eternal Witness
Non-Creature Spells
4 Path to Exile
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Collected Company
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
3 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Dismember
4 Vapor Snag
To address a few oddities:
All that being said, I have very rarely run into problems with the landbase. Sub-optimal is far from unplayable, and I've still had a ton of fun and success with this list. On the flip side, more than anything, the sideboard is what hurts me. Stony Silences seem like an absolute must. Kataki has yet to prove useful for me, as much as I love the card. Cutting him would reduce my threat density post-board however, and it sucks to have to board out CoCo because you brought in a ton of non-creature answers. Dismember can be great, but likely won't make the cut post-Eldrazi.
Aside from these issues, I'm very happy with this list. Even so, I'm sure there are tweaks to be made. Critiques are very welcome.
Can someone explain the benefit from having a fetch available when combo'ing? Something with priority and being able to protect the Knight I'm guessing?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Rogue's Passage has been very useful. I've stolen quite a few games just by grabbing it with Knight with 4 other lands. I toyed with taking it out for a while, but there are certain times when it's better than Kessig in a non-combo situation. Being able to break a ground stall with Geist or a giant KotR can be game-winning on its own. I can see a situation later on where I might take it out, but for now, I'm happy to have it.
Also keep in mind that if you have path to exile, you can hit your own creature to untap the knight as well. Sometimes this is relevant if you don't have the fetch but you have a path+creature.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Hello! Welcome to the thread!
Thank you for posting your results. Your list looks very interesting, definitely more aggressive than most of what I've seen on here. I see that you're not playing any Birds. With the Bolts, are you able to get some good value out of Geist? I assume you don't get to play him on T2 overwhelmingly often.
Also, just out of curiosity, how many games would you say you have with your list? I only ask because of your "1 in 4" comment. I would say I see the combo, and am able to win from it probably 1 game in 7 or 8, just off the top of my head.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Yisan, the Wandering Bard
I've jammed him a couple times with supporting cast of Dryad Arbor, Scryb Ranger, Village Bell-Ringer, Restoration Angel, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to enable:
* T1: Forest, Dork.
* T2: Land, Yisan.
* T3: Fetchland, Pass. EOT tutor dork. Fetch Dryad Arbor.
* T4: Tutor Ranger. Untap Yisan, replay forest. Tutor Bell-ringer, untap team. Tutor Resto, blink bell-ringer, untap team. Tutor kiki, go infinite.
KotR gives another thing for Bell-ringer and Ranger to untap. Retreat gives another way to untap Yisan. I don't mind 3.5 colours splashing red for Wolf Run/Nacatl but Kiki feels like too much? I recall some hangarback walker lists which also seems fun. Fauna shaman is another consideration. I'm still looking for:
* Any other untap targets?
* Alternate creature combos in bant at 5-7 mana? (5,6 mana clones exist that could replace kiki in the chain)
Jankier the cards the better; I'm just looking for something fun to play locally.
If you're going that route, you might be able to jam in the Spike Feeder+Archangel of Thune combo.
I considered it but I was hoping for something to fit into a Yisan chain. I can get Thune after resto, but bell-ringer at 3 enables everything.
That being said, since posting I've come up with: 5cmc clone (Vesuvan Shapeshifter, Mercurial Pretender or Body Double) gets Yisan to 6. Deadeye Navigator on Resto/Bell-ringer generates infinite mana and can reset Yisan counters too. "Put any creature from my deck into play at instant speed" might as well be infinite.
Anyways, with all due respect though this thread is really meant for Bant Company/Knightfall. I feel like the Yisan combo set up is straying way too far out of that territory. This thread isn't very active anyways, so you might have better luck creating a new one altogether.
Thread went a little dead there. Thought I'd liven it up.
I really seem to have hit a wall here. I'm trying to improve my play, and it doesn't seem to be doing any good. I haven't won any significant matches in a while. The only ones I seem to do well in are random rogue brews. It just seems like this deck really lacks the power to punch through past the first couple of turns. It's very demoralizing to be at parity in so many games, and then just spiral downward due to a bad topdeck.
Has anyone else experienced this, or could it just be a freak set of coincidences? If so, what did you do to remedy the situation?
What's the exact list you're running? I've actually been on a roll lately with Bant Company. I'm playing a very similar list to the one that got 8th place at GP Bologna and it's been absolutely stellar.
I took a look at the Top 8 list when you mentioned it. This list is much more focused on having the combo as an alternative win than that one. That does, unfortunately, make Company worse. I've been considering cutting it, but it's gotten me out of some tough spots.
I have been toying around with the idea of using Meddling Mage. The card seems good, but it just doesn't feel impactful enough for my tastes. All the 2 drops I currently play have the fail-safe of still being a bear with an effect on combat, whereas Meddling Mage can very well end up just being a 2/2 against something like Jund or Lantern.
It's also possible that my sideboard is holding me back more than I give it credit for. It's not awful in its current state, but it could definitely use work. Although, Vapor Snag has been an absolute house more times than I can count.
Here's my list:
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Voice of Resurgence
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging ooze
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Loxodon Smiter
1x Eternal Witness
Noncreature (12)
4x Collected Company
4x Path to Exile
4x Retreat to Coralhelm
1x Flooded Strand
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
3x Forest
2x Plains
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Breeding Pool
2x Temple Garden
1x Stomping Ground
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
3x Aven Mindcensor
2x Burrenton Forge-tender
2x Spellskite
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Meddling Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
As with most decks, sideboarding is a bit of an art. Rhox war monk replaces Geist in all creature matchups. Mindcensor replaces Smiter against a few decks like scapeshift, abzan company, elves etc. Forgetender comes in for a couple birds if red sweepers are a thing. Due to Kozilek's Return being printed, those might need to be replaced should that new tool become and issue. Kataki comes in for 1 retreat and witness against affinity. Clique replaces witness against combo decks. Mage/skite come in for scooze or pridemage as the matchup dictates.
Company gives us extra reach to find SB creatures, and our SB needs to reflect that by focusing on hatebears instead of noncreature spells. I also don't like Elspeth as that weakens both the company and the retreat plans. Warmonk with exalted or kessig has won many creature based matchups - has been much better than finks for me since we are not abusing persist.
I find that SB games are a bit better for the deck than pre-board since we can find the hatebears with company.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I say, don't knock Meddling Mage until you try it. I thought the same thing for awhile, but after using it, I surprised myself at how well I knew my opponent's decks, and was able to name cards that they would have been able to otherwise progress their game plan, or stop mine. Against Jund, you name cards like Liliana of the Veil, Fulminator Mage, Dark Confidant, etc. Seriously, it's really powerful once you realize just how many cards you yourself know to name against almost any given deck. I played the deck with the Retreat combo for awhile too, thinking that it also got me out of rough situations, but I think that is a bad mindset to have. Retreat is usually bad in multiples, and as much as I enjoy it's multiple applications, if I didn't already have a Knight on the board, I often found myself playing anything else to advance my actual board state. Dropping Retreat allowed me to run more creatures, which made Company much better. Some of the major differences from that Top 8 list I changed, was dropping a Scooze, and the Intrepid Heros for three Tarmogoyfs. On the otherhand, I was very skeptical about the Phantasmal Images, but they've seriously been great. I played a match just yesterday where I went EOT Collected Company>Reflector Mage+Phantasmal Image, against an opposing board of mana dorks and a Primeval Titan. Phantasmal Image became a Primeval Titan, and Reflector Mage bounced theirs. This play instantly won me the game, as I was able to get 4 lands out of it, smash in for something like 12 damage (My own board plus my new Titan) and prevented my opponent from doing anything useful all of their next turn. Phantasmal Image is so good against big decks that don't use a lot of target removal (Like these green devotion/ramp decks). Obviously you side them out against Jund and the like, but they've been great otherwise. I've been playing the list a ton, and so far, I've really only noticed one major bad match up in Scapeshift. That deck doesn't care at all what we're doing since it can just win by casting its namesake card. I discovered to myself that in *most* match ups, I'm running better creatures than my opponent's, so if I ran countermagic, I don't typically care at all about using it on their creatures. What I do notice I am in need of, is being able to have a way of stopping important noncreature spells. So I'm gonna add 4 Negates, somewhere. Probably all just in the Sideboard.
Regarding the Retreat Combo, I like to think of it like this... Birthing Pod was a combo deck during like 99% of its life. That other 1% was it's very brief time at the very end of its time, right before its ban. During that 1% time-frame, the deck was barely a combo deck. It was a value deck. I think most people even referred to it as Rhino Pod (Instead of Angel Pod or Melira Pod when it was a combo deck). The deck was winning more than ever, because instead of trying to assemble combo pieces, it simply out-valued its opponents. Why is drawing cards considered one of the most powerful things you can do? Because it garners advantage. Getting the most value out of your cards is great advantage too. I think that's the best way to play this deck now. I'm winning more than I ever have with any other deck using this list, which is seriously such a good feeling as someone who used to be a Twin player. As of now, on MTGO, I've played exactly 221 matches with this deck. 73 losses, 7 draws, and 148 wins. That is just a sliver over a 2.0 win/lose ratio (My time with Twin, I think I had myself at like 1.4ish, granted I had a lot more matches with that deck). But I owe that all to this deck. I think of myself as a very average player. I occasionally have some great plays, I occasionally make mistakes, I mostly play average. I know it's super anecdotal, but this deck just feels very special.
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
2x Voice of Resurgence
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging ooze
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Phantasmal Image
2x Eternal Witness
3x Tarmogoyf
3x Reflector Mage
3x Meddling Mage
Noncreature (8)
4x Collected Company
4x Path to Exile
2x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Windswept Heath
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Breeding Pool
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Temple Garden
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
3x Stony Silence
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Kor Firewalker
2x Reclamation Sage
2x Kitchen Finks
3x Retreat to Coralhelm
I am currently wanting to add Negate somewhere in my Sideboard. Also, just for fun, I've been playing around with 1-2 mainboard Worships, which has been hilarious. I'm not sure if I'll keep them, but they have been really fun.
Also I just want to add this to the thread, because I think it just further enforces my thinking that this deck could easily be Tier 1:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/28k-games-of-modern-analyzed
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/breakdown/modern
(These statistics show Bant Company having the highest win percentage among ALL decks in Modern. It's pretty old data, but the fact that Bant Company as a deck has been so under the radar, I think it still shows relevant information regarding this deck itself, especially since the deck has evolved more favorably in my opinion, and it top 8'd GP Bologna more recently.)
Great write-up here, very enjoyable to read. You make a number of good points. I'm not entirely sold on Meddling Mage yet, but you certainly give some solid rationale on it, and I could easily see it slotting in down the road. While I think you have great reasons for playing your version, here's my perspective on mine.
The way you're describing playing the deck makes it seem like more of a tempo deck, where you're trading resources with your opponent. That's fine, if that's what you want to do, but that's not why I picked this deck. I started without the Coralhelms (due to not having them), and the deck felt clunky and bad. It was a slower, less consistent Hatebears deck with an extra color. I knew from then that I at LEAST needed Coralhelm in there. That being said, I rarely play a game solely to hit the combo unless both pieces are in my opener. To its credit, Coralhelm can be really awesome on its own. I agree that I usually want to play a creature it its place, but if it's late game and I have the choice between Geist, Birds, and Retreat, I'm probably playing Retreat. Being able to tap down blockers with extra land makes those draws far less dead in the late game.
I picked this deck for a lot of reasons. Geist, Voice, Combo, colors. I have always been a big fan of Hatebears, but the gameplan seems too stagnant for my tastes. Additionally, I'm a combo junkie at heart. This deck really put all that together for me. Playing it as a tempo/value deck wouldn't scratch the itch in the same way. At that point, it starts to feel like a more anemic version of Abzan (in my opinion).
While I think this deck is strong, and has the potential to be competitive, a big draw for me is the fun factor. If I wanted to play pure combo, I could play Ad Nauseam (which I almost have built). If I wanted to just turn creatures sideways, I'd probably play straight GW. Being able to play awesome value creatures, AND Geist of Saint Traft, AND win out of nowhere with a crazy combo just seems too awesome to make concessions around. I love the nut draws with T2 Geist, or T3 Knightfall. Knightfall does so much of what I want to be doing in a game of Magic.
I do want to reiterate that I mean no disrespect or offense to your choice of deck. It sounds like you've found a list that really works for your style of play, while also posting respectable results. I just don't think that the list you play fills that role for me. It's probably worth noting that I accidentally linked my old list. I swapped out 3 Goyfs for 2 Scooze and another Voice. Now that I've done that, I'm very happy with my list. I'm unhappy with my ability to play it to its fullest potential.
My issue is that I seem to be losing a LOT of games, and not to the deck itself. Sure, there are some bad topdecks on my end, or good ones from my opponent, but I know that I could adjust my play to pick up some percentage points. I'm at the point where the basics have become rote, and I'm hoping to get some advanced strategy and lines of play to help me better capitalize on what this deck does. I'd also be willing to make a couple minor tweaks (adding Mage, switching up my sideboard(plan)) but I'm quite hesitant to make any huge, sweeping changes to my maindeck, at least for the time being.