@Pokken: yeah maybe. I mean i see them as maelstrom pulse in our colors, B/Gx decks still play those but maybe more beef is better, like loxodon smither? I'll probably make the switch before today's tournament.
@Radouf: not only did i consider them but i would 100% play them if i had them, but i still need both my kidneys . A reason to play little kid is you can get away without having goyf and just play g/w good stuff instead, so i built this deck with the intent of being optimal without goyf. Not playing goyf and playing liege and voice has upsides and downsides and is not 100% strictly worse than having goyf so i can live with that. But yes having goyf as your main big threat and commune to support them makes playing liege less necessary.
EDIT: instead of detention sphere, any thoughts on brimaz, king of oreskos in a liege version? It has the same total power as loxodon smither first swing and just keeps getting better if it lives. The downside is it can be discarded and countered. Worth it?
@Pokken: yeah maybe. I mean i see them as maelstrom pulse in our colors, B/Gx decks still play those but maybe more beef is better, like loxodon smither? I'll probably make the switch before today's tournament.
@Radouf: not only did i consider them but i would 100% play them if i had them, but i still need both my kidneys . A reason to play little kid is you can get away without having goyf and just play g/w good stuff instead, so i built this deck with the intent of being optimal without goyf. Not playing goyf and playing liege and voice has upsides and downsides and is not 100% strictly worse than having goyf so i can live with that. But yes having goyf as your main big threat and commune to support them makes playing liege less necessary.
EDIT: instead of detention sphere, any thoughts on brimaz, king of oreskos in a liege version? It has the same total power as loxodon smither first swing and just keeps getting better if it lives. The downside is it can be discarded and countered. Worth it?
I've found the two abilities on Smiter are worth the loss of token creation. It puts the fear of god into Liliana of the Veil / Kolaghan's Command decks, and laughs at people who kept mana up for Leak/Remand.
When balancing the mana base, it is also nice that you don't have to fetch a 2nd white source until later in the game - you can focus on green for Chord or multiple mana dorks whilst prepping Gavony Township.
It's a 2-for-1 that's a method of uncounterably putting either a Knight or a Retreat into play. It costs some mana, but with dorks getting to 5 mana doesn't seem difficult, and especially so with retreat+dorks, or knight as pseudo-ramp.
Anyone tried it? It's more mana efficient than wargate, potentially, but obviously not as precise, but also synergizes pretty well with Courser of Kruphix (providing a shuffle effect and a way to take advantage of knowledge of your top card).
Because it's a cast trigger it's not vulnerable to stuff that is normally a problem for us, like tempo counterspells and such. Having your Chord remanded feels pretty poor, but this guy does not want to interact--he just wants to spit out free cards.
Lol great minds think alike. I have been testing a knight retreat list in the devotion shell with hydra as the payoff card For a few weeks now for exactly the reasons you give. It's been pretty good so far. Hitting both halves, atarka, garruk, as well as every sideboard card seems like great value
. It might end up being a little better than 'janky'
Green devotion shell seems potentially really good, especially since it can make and make use of big mana. Retreat untapping a guy to untap a double sprawl'd land is pretty good value.
Detention Sphere is a great card and powerful removal that should not be overlooked. It is Maelstrom Pulse in our colors. The fact that you can tutor it on turn 5 and play it is a big deal. In addition it is an additional enchantment we can pitch if you are playing goyfs. It is a catch-all IMO and deals with unexpected threats and planeswalkers, something Bant colors has difficulty dealing with.
I do like that 5-color list. It looks spicy. I am not a fan of the magus in the main though. I think that is a SB card through and through. That is there to mess-up tron and amulet, but I feel that it will do so much damage to us because bolt, anger and pyroclasm are not uncommon spells and make short work of our dorks and then we are mana screwed. That being said, 5 color deck should experiment with Woodland Wanderer. Unopposed it just wins, sadly it doesn't not play nice with Chord. Also with 5 colors, consider Bring to Light. It can find anything in the deck, which may be great after boarding in hate cards.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
So what i ended doing is swap ooze and d-sphere, the first now main deck and the second in the board. I like both cards but tend to prioritize threats, especially disruptive ones. I also like to not overload on 3cc because we don't always have dorks/they get bolted often, and i at least want to always have something to do turn 2. And if the dork lives being able to cast and activate ooze turn 2 is randomly useful vs some decks.
I played 3 rounds vs infect (geez...) and one round vs 4 color gifts, losing only in the finals to infect deck number 3 (the 3 deck where indentical blue green versions). Kind of disappointing to not face varied decks but i'll take the 3-1 i guess...
I ended up siding out commune with the gods vs all 3 infect decks because i don't have time to durdle.
By far the most interesting games were vs gifts. First game i combo out late in the game after casting 3 commune during the game. I had a huge board advantage but my opponent had 4 lingering souls tokens and a tasigur. As i proceed to combo out i realize i milled too much fetchlands with my 3 communes, only 2 fetches left in the deck! So i tap 2 souls and swing with my team. On my end step my opponent gifts for 3 removal spells and a lingering souls. On his turn he ults his flipped jace, vryn's prodigy and casts 4 spells and mills me out with jace's emblem I managed to win both following games but it was the first time milling too many fetchlands with commune occured, and i was not very happy... Still those were fun and epic games, and i still like commune.
I have considered Bring to Light. The problem I found is that it misses the text 'Instant'. The only thing it does better than chord is allow me to search for removal and coralhelm, the power of our removal is that it's instant speed & having a face-up card in exile ready to destroy something doesn't do it for me, especially at the cost of 5 mana.
Woodland Wanderer seems sweet, it's a card that I admit I had my eyes on before. The only issue is the everlasting problem of 'what do we cut?' The obvious candidate of Loxodon just a beater' Smiter is just so good vs anything, can't be countered, can't be discarded, can't be bolted. I'm hardly ever not happy to see it.
Magus of the Moon hoses some decks so hard, if they don't float mana for an answer they lose. Being a one of creature off of half a land splash (also used for kessig) doesn't bother me at all.
Gavony Township is a card I'd love to play, I do find myself with leftover mana from time to time and it would allow a smiter to beat a goyf after 1-2 activations. Cons: not as good vs top control.
Dryad Arbor turns Chord into 3 mana get a land, food for thought.
Detention Sphere is a great card and powerful removal that should not be overlooked. It is Maelstrom Pulse in our colors. The fact that you can tutor it on turn 5 and play it is a big deal. In addition it is an additional enchantment we can pitch if you are playing goyfs. It is a catch-all IMO and deals with unexpected threats and planeswalkers, something Bant colors has difficulty dealing with.
I do like that 5-color list. It looks spicy. I am not a fan of the magus in the main though. I think that is a SB card through and through. That is there to mess-up tron and amulet, but I feel that it will do so much damage to us because bolt, anger and pyroclasm are not uncommon spells and make short work of our dorks and then we are mana screwed. That being said, 5 color deck should experiment with Woodland Wanderer. Unopposed it just wins, sadly it doesn't not play nice with Chord. Also with 5 colors, consider Bring to Light. It can find anything in the deck, which may be great after boarding in hate cards.
and also @ Pokken for the devotion/coralhelm value list:
Posted this list earlier, made some tweaks. It's not as creature focused as the other lists but it gets 5 colors and 5 mana for Bring to Light by turn 3, turn 3 kill via tooth and nail, turn 3 kill via Knightfall, and does all the value stuff you mentioned like coralhelm untap to get a dork to untap a land with 2 enchants to turn every land you play into essentially a Black Lotus. Could probably swap out the combos for some beaters and be a very effective deck that's not as all-in combo. I don't think Bring to Light is bad at all, it doesn't grab Enchants, but it does grab silver bullets, which improves your sideboard potential like crazy.
I was trying out that "dark" bant list with abrupt, I found the mana base really tough if you don't get/stick a dork. Maybe I need to play with it more, but the bant lists felt much smoother.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
You could try 2 flooded strands instead of marsh flats, allowing you to fetch WB, WG,UG with all 10 fetches and BG, RG with 8/10, closely following the theme of WG + ubr splashes
This list is interesting and more importanly fun.
I tested it a bit and every match felt different. Meddling Mage is like an "Out of Jail ticket" and other cards like Magus of the Moon can really be challenging to be played in a 4-colors deck.
I'd like to test this deck swapping Collected Company with Aether Vial.
This cheap artifact is a strong 1 turn play, we have a lot of creatures (maybe a dork can make room for another 3cmc threat), it literally screws countermagic and it helps managing things out with aMagus of the Moon on the board.
Collected is too unrealiable and though I'm fond of it in decks that can literally win from nowhere like Abzan CoCo-Combo, I think this might be a real improvement.
I'm gonna let you know, but I'd like to hear your thoughts as well.
I had a Meddling Mage in my SB but didn't face a match where he was relevant that night. I replaced him with another Aven Mindcensor which is important against Infect (flying blocker) and some other matchups.
I agree that CC isn't what we are generally looking for. If you are on the Bant (not Naya) aggro plan, a random pair of 2 creatures isn't as useful as the specific one you need (Chord).
Aether Vial is cool, but too expensive for me at the moment. I'm curious about how it plays. Seems like you'd sit it at 3 mana most of the game.
Chord in theory is good, but I found it really underwhelming. None of our creatures are back breaking unless you are main decking hate. It felt like it was more to find specific answers rather than get ahead.
Still I haven't played a lot of games with it yet.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
If you play aether vial you should remove all dorks and cluster more around 2 and 3. Probably play serum visions or spell pierce.
Given the huge number of 3 drops we want to play, it's a pretty reasonable idea, but usually you want to jam a lot of 2 drops if you go that route (which means Thalia, Qasali Pridemage, Voice, most likely).
Have we come to an agreement against putting the combo in a control list? I feel like both of our combo pieces are kind of slow, and we're fine with a longer game, as it gives us more time to combo off.
Have we come to an agreement against putting the combo in a control list? I feel like both of our combo pieces are kind of slow, and we're fine with a longer game, as it gives us more time to combo off.
I don't think that there is any consensus at all, no. Not enough results to rally around any one or two strategies at this point. It is worth testing in a control shell.
@Radouf: not only did i consider them but i would 100% play them if i had them, but i still need both my kidneys . A reason to play little kid is you can get away without having goyf and just play g/w good stuff instead, so i built this deck with the intent of being optimal without goyf. Not playing goyf and playing liege and voice has upsides and downsides and is not 100% strictly worse than having goyf so i can live with that. But yes having goyf as your main big threat and commune to support them makes playing liege less necessary.
EDIT: instead of detention sphere, any thoughts on brimaz, king of oreskos in a liege version? It has the same total power as loxodon smither first swing and just keeps getting better if it lives. The downside is it can be discarded and countered. Worth it?
I've found the two abilities on Smiter are worth the loss of token creation. It puts the fear of god into Liliana of the Veil / Kolaghan's Command decks, and laughs at people who kept mana up for Leak/Remand.
When balancing the mana base, it is also nice that you don't have to fetch a 2nd white source until later in the game - you can focus on green for Chord or multiple mana dorks whilst prepping Gavony Township.
Township wins so many games - I love it!
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
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Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
Lol great minds think alike. I have been testing a knight retreat list in the devotion shell with hydra as the payoff card For a few weeks now for exactly the reasons you give. It's been pretty good so far. Hitting both halves, atarka, garruk, as well as every sideboard card seems like great value
. It might end up being a little better than 'janky'
Love to see a list
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I do like that 5-color list. It looks spicy. I am not a fan of the magus in the main though. I think that is a SB card through and through. That is there to mess-up tron and amulet, but I feel that it will do so much damage to us because bolt, anger and pyroclasm are not uncommon spells and make short work of our dorks and then we are mana screwed. That being said, 5 color deck should experiment with Woodland Wanderer. Unopposed it just wins, sadly it doesn't not play nice with Chord. Also with 5 colors, consider Bring to Light. It can find anything in the deck, which may be great after boarding in hate cards.
I played 3 rounds vs infect (geez...) and one round vs 4 color gifts, losing only in the finals to infect deck number 3 (the 3 deck where indentical blue green versions). Kind of disappointing to not face varied decks but i'll take the 3-1 i guess...
I ended up siding out commune with the gods vs all 3 infect decks because i don't have time to durdle.
By far the most interesting games were vs gifts. First game i combo out late in the game after casting 3 commune during the game. I had a huge board advantage but my opponent had 4 lingering souls tokens and a tasigur. As i proceed to combo out i realize i milled too much fetchlands with my 3 communes, only 2 fetches left in the deck! So i tap 2 souls and swing with my team. On my end step my opponent gifts for 3 removal spells and a lingering souls. On his turn he ults his flipped jace, vryn's prodigy and casts 4 spells and mills me out with jace's emblem I managed to win both following games but it was the first time milling too many fetchlands with commune occured, and i was not very happy... Still those were fun and epic games, and i still like commune.
Woodland Wanderer seems sweet, it's a card that I admit I had my eyes on before. The only issue is the everlasting problem of 'what do we cut?' The obvious candidate of Loxodon just a beater' Smiter is just so good vs anything, can't be countered, can't be discarded, can't be bolted. I'm hardly ever not happy to see it.
Magus of the Moon hoses some decks so hard, if they don't float mana for an answer they lose. Being a one of creature off of half a land splash (also used for kessig) doesn't bother me at all.
Gavony Township is a card I'd love to play, I do find myself with leftover mana from time to time and it would allow a smiter to beat a goyf after 1-2 activations. Cons: not as good vs top control.
Dryad Arbor turns Chord into 3 mana get a land, food for thought.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
and also @ Pokken for the devotion/coralhelm value list:
Posted this list earlier, made some tweaks. It's not as creature focused as the other lists but it gets 5 colors and 5 mana for Bring to Light by turn 3, turn 3 kill via tooth and nail, turn 3 kill via Knightfall, and does all the value stuff you mentioned like coralhelm untap to get a dork to untap a land with 2 enchants to turn every land you play into essentially a Black Lotus. Could probably swap out the combos for some beaters and be a very effective deck that's not as all-in combo. I don't think Bring to Light is bad at all, it doesn't grab Enchants, but it does grab silver bullets, which improves your sideboard potential like crazy.
3 Voyaging Satyr
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Fertile Ground
2 Garruk, Wildspeaker
2 Kiora, Master of the depths
2 Karn Liberated
4 Tooth and Nail
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
1 Xenagos, god of revels
1 Woodland Wanderer
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Harmonize
1 Eternal Witness
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Breeding Pool
9 Forest
1 temple garden
1 stomping ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Dismember
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Eternal Witness
1 primal command
1 creeping corrosion
1 Merfolk Assassin
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-daily-2015-11-02
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Serum Visions
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Canopy Vista
3 Forest
1 Island
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Stony Silence
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Spellskite
2 Stubborn Denial
CG
I had a Meddling Mage in my SB but didn't face a match where he was relevant that night. I replaced him with another Aven Mindcensor which is important against Infect (flying blocker) and some other matchups.
I agree that CC isn't what we are generally looking for. If you are on the Bant (not Naya) aggro plan, a random pair of 2 creatures isn't as useful as the specific one you need (Chord).
Aether Vial is cool, but too expensive for me at the moment. I'm curious about how it plays. Seems like you'd sit it at 3 mana most of the game.
Check out Odds//Ends - My articles on Quirky Cards and Oddball Builds
Long-time PucaTrade member and sometime author. Send me cards!
Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
Still I haven't played a lot of games with it yet.
Given the huge number of 3 drops we want to play, it's a pretty reasonable idea, but usually you want to jam a lot of 2 drops if you go that route (which means Thalia, Qasali Pridemage, Voice, most likely).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I don't think that there is any consensus at all, no. Not enough results to rally around any one or two strategies at this point. It is worth testing in a control shell.
CG