I dunno, I definitely think discard is stronger glue than dorks though. Playing dark confidant as a way to dig for the combo might not be the worst either. I'll fiddle around with it.
Being able to abrupt decay exarchs (and random combo pieces) and inquisition combo decks brings a lot to the table.
That is a very interesting idea, assuming u can get the mana to work.
Didn't know whether to post and decided to might as well share on this thread since I run Knight + Retreat combo as well.
My deck functions essentially as Tooth and Nail deck that can also combo off with Knight + Retreat. Lotus cobras + knight allows us to compliment the already insane arbor elf + utopia sprawl ramp and retreat to coralhelm allows us our land-untappers to get extra value out of each land that comes into play, resulting in consistent ramp with different outs. The decklist is as follows:
Lands:
4 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Windswept Heath
2 x Misty Rainforest
1 x Breeding Pool
1 x Stomping Grounds
1 x Temple Garden
1 x Kessig Wolf Run
1 x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 x Sejiri Steppe
6 x Forest
Creatures
4 x Arbor Elf
2 x Voyaging Satyr
4 x Lotus Cobra
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
2 x Primeval Titan
1 x Xenagos, God of Revels
1 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Noncreature Spells
4 x Utopia Sprawl
2 x Fertile Ground
4 x Retreat to Coralhelm
3 x Garruk Wildspeaker
3 x Harmonize
4 x Tooth and Nail
Sideboard
2 x Choke
2 x Ghost Quarter
1 x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 x Thragtusk
1 x Spellskite
1 x Bojuka Bog
1 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Creeping Corrosion
1 x Torpor Orb
1 x Acidic Slime
1 x Primal Command
1 x Flex Slot
Retreat to Coralhelm is almost never a dead card in this deck, giving us either free ramp by untapping our mana producers or making hilarious swings with Primeval Titan swinging and tapping two of the opponent's creatures. Most of the time, tooth and nail for xenagos and emrakul will end the game but knight+retreat combo happens more often than you would think too. I love the synergy of the fetches, cobras, retreat, and knight which allows for powerful plays no matter what the stage of the game is.
On Sejiri Steppe:
The opponents that will get juked by Steppe the most often are opponents with few removal spells, such as Amulet Bloom, Ad Nauseam, Elves, Affinity, and Melira Company. Those opponents are the most likely to ignore KotR until they are sure you're on a combo deck (after all, they'd rather kill hate bears that stop them from winning like Meddling Mage, Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcensor, Kataki, and Izzet Staticaster).
...A ton of fair opponents will just kill KotR on sight, though.
Has anyone tinkered with a bring to light list? Im running the naya version but i recently had access to blue fetches and am intrested in trying the bant midrange. (Pokken's hangarback list)
On Sejiri Steppe:
The opponents that will get juked by Steppe the most often are opponents with few removal spells, such as Amulet Bloom, Ad Nauseam, Elves, Affinity, and Melira Company. Those opponents are the most likely to ignore KotR until they are sure you're on a combo deck (after all, they'd rather kill hate bears that stop them from winning like Meddling Mage, Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcensor, Kataki, and Izzet Staticaster).
...A ton of fair opponents will just kill KotR on sight, though.
What removal that kills knight would amulet, ad nauseam, and elves play? Mayyybe 1 dismember in their board?
Affinity has gav blast maybe, which usually wont kill knight anyways.
Yeah, midrange path decks (melira and the mirror) are the most likely to be blown out for holding on to their 1 path til the right moment. Still, its that 1/100.
On Sejiri Steppe:
The opponents that will get juked by Steppe the most often are opponents with few removal spells, such as Amulet Bloom, Ad Nauseam, Elves, Affinity, and Melira Company. Those opponents are the most likely to ignore KotR until they are sure you're on a combo deck (after all, they'd rather kill hate bears that stop them from winning like Meddling Mage, Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcensor, Kataki, and Izzet Staticaster).
...A ton of fair opponents will just kill KotR on sight, though.
What removal that kills knight would amulet, ad nauseam, and elves play? Mayyybe 1 dismember in their board?
Affinity has gav blast maybe, which usually wont kill knight anyways.
Yeah, midrange path decks (melira and the mirror) are the most likely to be blown out for holding on to their 1 path til the right moment. Still, its that 1/100.
Ad Nauseam and Amulet Bloom both maindeck 1 bullet Slaughter Pact. Ad Nauseam needs it to kill Spellskite mid-combo, so its resources are going to be stretched. Elves's creature removal is stuck in the board, though beware of instant-speed Reclamation Sage meaning that not even Sejiri Steppe can protect the combo.
Ad Nauseam and Amulet Bloom both maindeck 1 bullet Slaughter Pact. Ad Nauseam needs it to kill Spellskite mid-combo, so its resources are going to be stretched. Elves's creature removal is stuck in the board, though beware of instant-speed Reclamation Sage meaning that not even Sejiri Steppe can protect the combo.
Ah yes slaughter pact in those 2 (although ad nausem does not care about spellskite in the slightest [neither lightning storm or conflagrate cares about spellskite, and they run 1 of each]; I've played against it a few times and haven't seen a slaughter pact yet).
Enchantment removal does nothing to the combo if you have a fetchland in play (either as your land drop for the turn or if your opponent mistakenly lets you knight at least once) so I usually wouldn't be worried about rec sage. A nice thing about underplayed (in this case, new) combos is that people don't know how to beat it. People siding in enchantment removal will -usually- be disappointed.
Went 3-1 tonight at my LGS with the Chord version of the deck. My only loss was to U/W Tron. I couldn't win the resource race after he started using Sphinx's Revelation so he was able to close it out on turn 5 of extra turns. Next was Storm where I got my Leyline of Sanctity online right away and was able to flash in Restoration Angel eot with him at 3 life. Then I went on to play Bogles and went turn two Knight of the Reliquary, turn 3 Retreat to Coralhelm and killed him. Last round was against Affinity. Game 1 he crushed me, game 2 I had a hand with a turn 2 Stony Silence into a Chord of Calling for Kataki, War's Wage. Game 3 I kept nearly the exact same starting hand as game 2 and just dominated him. Sejiri Steppe actually won me 3 games tonight...I can post a list in the morning if anyone is interested in seeing what I ran.
OK, on the busride home, I had a few worthwhile thoughts.
On removal: For those of you who are trying commune with the gods, a relevant option may be temporal isolation--Playable at instant speed, searchable with commune and even blanks auxiliary damage effects. There are two major downsides, however, first, it doesn't really function with potent continuous effects (e.g. Dark Confidant), attack effects (e.g. primeval titan) or activated abilities (e.g.Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker) and, as an enchantment, it can always be removed. Either way, it is efficient and probably solid against aggro. It may not be enough to really be worth it, however.
There's also runed halo--not removal per se, but it can be pretty effective just the same. However, it never removes a blocker, is sorcery speed, and still an enchantment.
As for azorius charm, I tried it in an earlier list. The biggest problem is that the attacking/blocking restriction can be pretty limiting, especially if you are trying to clear a blocker. Moreover, they will just get the card back next turn, so it sucks for killing linchpin creatures. On the other hand, cycling is always nice, and gaining occasional goofy amounts of life doesn't suck either. Still, I wasn't impressed with it overall.
Wrath protection: I remembered a card, and it could be something. Dauntless Escort actually blanks nearly every played sweeper I can think of (except maybe Terminus), as well as being a somewhat smallish beater. The downside is that you telegraph the move before you actually use it (unless you chord or coco him in). Either way, I may try him as a one-of in my chord list.
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Didn't know whether to post and decided to might as well share on this thread since I run Knight + Retreat combo as well.
My deck functions essentially as Tooth and Nail deck that can also combo off with Knight + Retreat. Lotus cobras + knight allows us to compliment the already insane arbor elf + utopia sprawl ramp and retreat to coralhelm allows us our land-untappers to get extra value out of each land that comes into play, resulting in consistent ramp with different outs. The decklist is as follows:
Lands:
4 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Windswept Heath
2 x Misty Rainforest
1 x Breeding Pool
1 x Stomping Grounds
1 x Temple Garden
1 x Kessig Wolf Run
1 x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 x Sejiri Steppe
6 x Forest
Creatures
4 x Arbor Elf
2 x Voyaging Satyr
4 x Lotus Cobra
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
2 x Primeval Titan
1 x Xenagos, God of Revels
1 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Noncreature Spells
4 x Utopia Sprawl
2 x Fertile Ground
4 x Retreat to Coralhelm
3 x Garruk Wildspeaker
3 x Harmonize
4 x Tooth and Nail
Sideboard
2 x Choke
2 x Ghost Quarter
1 x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 x Thragtusk
1 x Spellskite
1 x Bojuka Bog
1 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Creeping Corrosion
1 x Torpor Orb
1 x Acidic Slime
1 x Primal Command
1 x Flex Slot
Retreat to Coralhelm is almost never a dead card in this deck, giving us either free ramp by untapping our mana producers or making hilarious swings with Primeval Titan swinging and tapping two of the opponent's creatures. Most of the time, tooth and nail for xenagos and emrakul will end the game but knight+retreat combo happens more often than you would think too. I love the synergy of the fetches, cobras, retreat, and knight which allows for powerful plays no matter what the stage of the game is.
I play a very similar list that I linked earlier in the thread. I run Karns over Prime time, and instead of lotus cobra I have 1 more satyr, 1 more fertile ground, and 2 of twiddle, which I've found works wonderfully for some quick non-lightningboltable land untapping. I was running prime time earlier, not sure if I like playing turn 3 prime time better than turn 3 karn though.
Went 3-1 tonight at my LGS with the Chord version of the deck. My only loss was to U/W Tron. I couldn't win the resource race after he started using Sphinx's Revelation so he was able to close it out on turn 5 of extra turns. Next was Storm where I got my Leyline of Sanctity online right away and was able to flash in Restoration Angel eot with him at 3 life. Then I went on to play Bogles and went turn two Knight of the Reliquary, turn 3 Retreat to Coralhelm and killed him. Last round was against Affinity. Game 1 he crushed me, game 2 I had a hand with a turn 2 Stony Silence into a Chord of Calling for Kataki, War's Wage. Game 3 I kept nearly the exact same starting hand as game 2 and just dominated him. Sejiri Steppe actually won me 3 games tonight...I can post a list in the morning if anyone is interested in seeing what I ran.
It would be great if you could give us the full report and your list. Are you running Company as well as Chord?
Went 3-1 tonight at my LGS with the Chord version of the deck. My only loss was to U/W Tron. I couldn't win the resource race after he started using Sphinx's Revelation so he was able to close it out on turn 5 of extra turns. Next was Storm where I got my Leyline of Sanctity online right away and was able to flash in Restoration Angel eot with him at 3 life. Then I went on to play Bogles and went turn two Knight of the Reliquary, turn 3 Retreat to Coralhelm and killed him. Last round was against Affinity. Game 1 he crushed me, game 2 I had a hand with a turn 2 Stony Silence into a Chord of Calling for Kataki, War's Wage. Game 3 I kept nearly the exact same starting hand as game 2 and just dominated him. Sejiri Steppe actually won me 3 games tonight...I can post a list in the morning if anyone is interested in seeing what I ran.
It would be great if you could give us the full report and your list. Are you running Company as well as Chord?
Just put up the decklist.
It feels like your list might be higher on value but lower on pressure. How has it functioned when you don't have/get the combo?
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Went 3-1 tonight at my LGS with the Chord version of the deck. My only loss was to U/W Tron. I couldn't win the resource race after he started using Sphinx's Revelation so he was able to close it out on turn 5 of extra turns. Next was Storm where I got my Leyline of Sanctity online right away and was able to flash in Restoration Angel eot with him at 3 life. Then I went on to play Bogles and went turn two Knight of the Reliquary, turn 3 Retreat to Coralhelm and killed him. Last round was against Affinity. Game 1 he crushed me, game 2 I had a hand with a turn 2 Stony Silence into a Chord of Calling for Kataki, War's Wage. Game 3 I kept nearly the exact same starting hand as game 2 and just dominated him. Sejiri Steppe actually won me 3 games tonight...I can post a list in the morning if anyone is interested in seeing what I ran.
It would be great if you could give us the full report and your list. Are you running Company as well as Chord?
Just put up the decklist.
It feels like your list might be higher on value but lower on pressure. How has it functioned when you don't have/get the combo?
Not too bad actually, I did win a few games in the combat step. Attacking with Angels and Finks has usually gotten me there if I can't put together the combo. My list is most definitely not all in on the combo and focused more on value and the chord toolbox.
I dunno, I definitely think discard is stronger glue than dorks though. Playing dark confidant as a way to dig for the combo might not be the worst either. I'll fiddle around with it.
Being able to abrupt decay exarchs (and random combo pieces) and inquisition combo decks brings a lot to the table.
Been thinking about it more and more, I think chord is where we want to be. The fact that it allows us to play with a toolbox sideboard just seems too sweet to pass up. I think this means we have to play dorks and no discard. Abrupt decay seems so good though.
That is a very interesting idea, assuming u can get the mana to work.
My deck functions essentially as Tooth and Nail deck that can also combo off with Knight + Retreat. Lotus cobras + knight allows us to compliment the already insane arbor elf + utopia sprawl ramp and retreat to coralhelm allows us our land-untappers to get extra value out of each land that comes into play, resulting in consistent ramp with different outs. The decklist is as follows:
Lands:
4 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Windswept Heath
2 x Misty Rainforest
1 x Breeding Pool
1 x Stomping Grounds
1 x Temple Garden
1 x Kessig Wolf Run
1 x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 x Sejiri Steppe
6 x Forest
Creatures
4 x Arbor Elf
2 x Voyaging Satyr
4 x Lotus Cobra
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
2 x Primeval Titan
1 x Xenagos, God of Revels
1 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Noncreature Spells
4 x Utopia Sprawl
2 x Fertile Ground
4 x Retreat to Coralhelm
3 x Garruk Wildspeaker
3 x Harmonize
4 x Tooth and Nail
Sideboard
2 x Choke
2 x Ghost Quarter
1 x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 x Thragtusk
1 x Spellskite
1 x Bojuka Bog
1 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Creeping Corrosion
1 x Torpor Orb
1 x Acidic Slime
1 x Primal Command
1 x Flex Slot
Retreat to Coralhelm is almost never a dead card in this deck, giving us either free ramp by untapping our mana producers or making hilarious swings with Primeval Titan swinging and tapping two of the opponent's creatures. Most of the time, tooth and nail for xenagos and emrakul will end the game but knight+retreat combo happens more often than you would think too. I love the synergy of the fetches, cobras, retreat, and knight which allows for powerful plays no matter what the stage of the game is.
The opponents that will get juked by Steppe the most often are opponents with few removal spells, such as Amulet Bloom, Ad Nauseam, Elves, Affinity, and Melira Company. Those opponents are the most likely to ignore KotR until they are sure you're on a combo deck (after all, they'd rather kill hate bears that stop them from winning like Meddling Mage, Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcensor, Kataki, and Izzet Staticaster).
...A ton of fair opponents will just kill KotR on sight, though.
Suggest starting from Maty's list if you're looking at bant midrange, though I do think hangarbacks are sweet
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
What removal that kills knight would amulet, ad nauseam, and elves play? Mayyybe 1 dismember in their board?
Affinity has gav blast maybe, which usually wont kill knight anyways.
Yeah, midrange path decks (melira and the mirror) are the most likely to be blown out for holding on to their 1 path til the right moment. Still, its that 1/100.
Ad Nauseam and Amulet Bloom both maindeck 1 bullet Slaughter Pact. Ad Nauseam needs it to kill Spellskite mid-combo, so its resources are going to be stretched. Elves's creature removal is stuck in the board, though beware of instant-speed Reclamation Sage meaning that not even Sejiri Steppe can protect the combo.
Ah yes slaughter pact in those 2 (although ad nausem does not care about spellskite in the slightest [neither lightning storm or conflagrate cares about spellskite, and they run 1 of each]; I've played against it a few times and haven't seen a slaughter pact yet).
Enchantment removal does nothing to the combo if you have a fetchland in play (either as your land drop for the turn or if your opponent mistakenly lets you knight at least once) so I usually wouldn't be worried about rec sage. A nice thing about underplayed (in this case, new) combos is that people don't know how to beat it. People siding in enchantment removal will -usually- be disappointed.
Here's the list:
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Wall of Omens
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Restoration Angel
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Woodland Bellower (could probably be a one of)
Spells 10
3 Path to Exile
3 Chord of Calling
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thragtusk
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Leyline of Sanctity
The sideboard is a bit all over the place and could probably use some work. The Chord toolbox feels so nice I might go up to 4 Chord in the main.
On removal: For those of you who are trying commune with the gods, a relevant option may be temporal isolation--Playable at instant speed, searchable with commune and even blanks auxiliary damage effects. There are two major downsides, however, first, it doesn't really function with potent continuous effects (e.g. Dark Confidant), attack effects (e.g. primeval titan) or activated abilities (e.g.Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker) and, as an enchantment, it can always be removed. Either way, it is efficient and probably solid against aggro. It may not be enough to really be worth it, however.
There's also runed halo--not removal per se, but it can be pretty effective just the same. However, it never removes a blocker, is sorcery speed, and still an enchantment.
As for azorius charm, I tried it in an earlier list. The biggest problem is that the attacking/blocking restriction can be pretty limiting, especially if you are trying to clear a blocker. Moreover, they will just get the card back next turn, so it sucks for killing linchpin creatures. On the other hand, cycling is always nice, and gaining occasional goofy amounts of life doesn't suck either. Still, I wasn't impressed with it overall.
Wrath protection: I remembered a card, and it could be something. Dauntless Escort actually blanks nearly every played sweeper I can think of (except maybe Terminus), as well as being a somewhat smallish beater. The downside is that you telegraph the move before you actually use it (unless you chord or coco him in). Either way, I may try him as a one-of in my chord list.
I play a very similar list that I linked earlier in the thread. I run Karns over Prime time, and instead of lotus cobra I have 1 more satyr, 1 more fertile ground, and 2 of twiddle, which I've found works wonderfully for some quick non-lightningboltable land untapping. I was running prime time earlier, not sure if I like playing turn 3 prime time better than turn 3 karn though.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Just put up the decklist.
It feels like your list might be higher on value but lower on pressure. How has it functioned when you don't have/get the combo?
Not too bad actually, I did win a few games in the combat step. Attacking with Angels and Finks has usually gotten me there if I can't put together the combo. My list is most definitely not all in on the combo and focused more on value and the chord toolbox.
Been thinking about it more and more, I think chord is where we want to be. The fact that it allows us to play with a toolbox sideboard just seems too sweet to pass up. I think this means we have to play dorks and no discard. Abrupt decay seems so good though.