I thought I'd mention a few cards, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy/Jace, Telepath Unbound is super good. As a creature, Baby Jace often eats a removal spell once reserved for Monastery Mentor, but a flipped Jace can offer tons of longevity into later parts of the game. Flashing back removal spells and Serum Visions is really good. Filling up your graveyard fast enough to flip him with the first activation isn't hard with fetches and Thought Scour. If you don't flip him fast you're filtering through your deck and fueling delve and providing Snapcaster Mage Targets.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar I feel like he should be really good in this deck. With Mentor curving into him perfectly, providing a prowess trigger along with either another permanent anthem or a source of 2/2s with a 5/5 indestructible body. I think I want to add another.
I think I want more counters of some kind but I am unsure of what, probably another Remand or Spell Pierce and also don't know what to cut.
In the sideboard I like Hangarback Walker against Jund and other removal based decks that have to 2+ for 1. This card should see more modern play.
A quiet standard list. I personaly removed Murderous Cut from my list, and replaced Scours for better cards.I do play 3 mana leak with 2 remand, and i will never go up. I think that discard is better to protect our treats, we want to play them quiet fast (wait turn 5 to Mentor + counter is a bit late IMO).
I still prefer Sorin aver the Ally of zendikar. Gives back life, tokens and boost. Pay 4 manas for a simple prowess trigger is expensive, even if it drops a 2/2. And the 5/5 body... bwarf. He is bloacked to easily, you can not block Tas/rhino with it, and if you play a list with board sweepers, the first version of Gideon is better (i play him and is really insane). Yes the Ally is amazing in standard, but there is better in modern.
Hangarback walker is a bit like Gideon, the ally. really good in standard, but in modern, with souls, pyroclasms, Kolagahn's command, electrolyse,..... he is not that good.
Jace is good, really. Fill the yard, recast for prowess trigger,... i should have buy them at 15$...
I'm running a slightly slower version of this deck with more counterspells, no hand disruption and alot of planeswalkers + bitterblossom + lingering souls. I also have 2x Chalice + Gifts package in the sideboard to stop those annoying aggro decks
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Has anyone here considered merging this with the Goryo's Vengeance decklist that runs looter Jace and Obzedat to create pressure? Both lists want to run thought scour, snapcaster mage, thoughtseize, inquisition of kozilek, etc. I really do not like looter Jace, but being able to pull him at instant speed from a graveyard, block a creature, loot, and then get a planeswalker, is very strong. So is Obzedat who will not be exiled with the Goryo's Vengeance and will play like an esper siege rhino that cannot die to sorcery speed removal.
This is very heartening for me to see because I've been playing with a deck that is fueled by jace, liliana, and souls. jace is the real deal, no questions asked. the 2 the guys plays in that top 8 is not enough. also liliana is as good as ever so why only play 1 I don't know. and they both interact so dirty with souls. Just beat an Abzan opponent, for example, but have been playing the current version for a little while now, previously playing a different sideboard but identical mb. I think the deck has what it takes.
There is a lot there but I want to point out specifically the manland suite, which is really the way to keep the threat density high. We play a lot of one drops and can operate on that down-a-land just fine with this build and is also why disfigure is so good. I have found murderous cut to compete with tasigur and jace too much and being able to play a one drop no questions asked to kill that early threat is what this deck needs. Mentor is still a premium threat and I've found that 2 is just enough to impact some games but not having 4 means you don't lean on it. Tasigur is beats. It's a really clean build that maxes out the utility of jace and snap, while providing just the needed threats to close out games, often falling back on manlands. GY hate hurts, but disenchent is the difference between grixis and esper. Zealous persecution is the much needed wrath that I will never again cut after a short haitus on it. I could hear arguments for sideboarding it, but this list is really tight after playing and tuning esper mentor since march.
The sauce at the end of the sideboard to really KO any matchup. Mage into Iona just beats so many uninteractive decks. Elesh norn does her thing and where those two don't cut it, the gifts for value usually is better anyway (jund, abzan). I have moved completely away from counters *gasp* and not looked back. I'd rather flood on discard and use jace and liliana to filter than risk not drawing that first turn interaction that can disrupt until I get online. everything else is purely necessary. Removal for creatures because apart from tasigur, esper doesn't have creatures that compete. disenchant and timely because we are playing white.
Hi I run a deck that is very similar to yours. I think you are going to want to find space for thought scour to get that sweet T2 tasigur. Also Sorin solemn Visitor does overtime in this deck. The main weakness is that you'll run out of cards. I run 4 gitaxian probes too for the mentor.
Including Liliana of the veil, however counterproductive it might seem, is freaking great. - +1 lingering souls is losing only half a card.
Get a big draw spell too like Sphinx's reveation or Painful truths for Jace to flashback so you can refuel. I feel that is fine as a 1-of.
For manlands, is Colonade just significantly better than the other lands and people just choose to run shambling or tarpit because they don't have access to white and blue or is Tarpit and Shambling more designed for more aggro strategies?
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For manlands, is Colonade just significantly better than the other lands and people just choose to run shambling or tarpit because they don't have access to white and blue or is Tarpit and Shambling more designed for more aggro strategies?
Colonnade is a great finisher but I find with 22 lands it's not worth running more than 1. Creeping tar pit is amazing and shambling vent has proven it's worth against any deck using red
Thoughts? Been playing a lot online. Streaming at Twitch.tv/stlzach
Only drawn the painful truths twice, both times it was outstanding. You will not convince me to drop the Ghost Quarters either I feel as though the ability to use Probe the same turn you drop Mentor on curve will win you the game in some matches (Jund, other grindy games), but against others it is completely useless and you might as well just play a different card instead. There are also times where you have 3 mentor tokens in play and top-deck the probe, where it becomes incredible. Then there's also the awkwardness of starting with it and inquisition in your opener. What's the consensus on Probe? When running both, which do you think you should play first on Turn 1? When I start with both I usually inquisition and save the probe for when it's either necessary to hit a land drop or when I have a mentor in play. Not sure if probing first to see what they have before you inquisition is better, since you would know if you have a [good] target for your inquisition.
So, after a while of the deck being on the shelf I picked it back up to see if their was anything else to help Monastery Mentor.
I thought it over and raven's crime fit pretty well in the deck's main concept with using thought scour, and using 1-for-1 card advantage to grind the opponent down to nothing.
While also depleting the cards out the opponents hand, you can make safe assumption's whether the opponent has disruptive answers.
This also turns all your land into prowess triggers for monastery mentor
Here's a rough draft of the deck.
The Reason I like the deck is all your cards are very Proactive and reactive to many different board states,
With also having information with cards such as Inquisition of Kozilek Helps you plan your attack on the opponent.
BadMcFadden, I like Sorin but i cant really appreciate a 4-mana hardcast most of the time against blue decks,
Really loving the idea of Raven's crime... This post is from a few months ago, are you still running it? Is anyone? Gonna test with it soon.
I played against you that game where you played the painful truths i run some budgety grixis twin list and you also won off that GQ gg's i play esper mentor on paper and i've been intending on working on a new build! gg's
I played against you that game where you played the painful truths i run some budgety grixis twin list and you also won off that GQ gg's i play esper mentor on paper and i've been intending on working on a new build! gg's
Wild, yea I don't remember much about the matches but nice to see you here. Since my last post I have dropped Gitaxian Probes for mana leak. More protection for Mentor and Tasigur.
I am a hardcore aggro player. I have been wanting to put a control list together for a while. I know i didnt come up with this combination, At first though idk that this was a type of deck.. I was looking through cards, I have been wanting to use Liliana vess and ashiok forever. My friend plays junk. So i kinda modded this as blue junk, trying to look up some type decks and see this is a thing,Esper. So here is my list. I feel it is American control with black. any thoughts.
Thoughts? Been playing a lot online. Streaming at Twitch.tv/stlzach
Only drawn the painful truths twice, both times it was outstanding. You will not convince me to drop the Ghost Quarters either I feel as though the ability to use Probe the same turn you drop Mentor on curve will win you the game in some matches (Jund, other grindy games), but against others it is completely useless and you might as well just play a different card instead. There are also times where you have 3 mentor tokens in play and top-deck the probe, where it becomes incredible. Then there's also the awkwardness of starting with it and inquisition in your opener. What's the consensus on Probe? When running both, which do you think you should play first on Turn 1? When I start with both I usually inquisition and save the probe for when it's either necessary to hit a land drop or when I have a mentor in play. Not sure if probing first to see what they have before you inquisition is better, since you would know if you have a [good] target for your inquisition.
Not surprised that Painful Truths is good here. It's kinda exactly what mentor wants. I am, however, appalled that you have 0 copies of Zealous Persecution in your 75. Sweeper vs decks with x/1's (Affinity!), Saves Mentor from Bolt, and can really swing damage races or even 1-shot kill people with all the tokens you got floating around. What gives?
Thoughts? Been playing a lot online. Streaming at Twitch.tv/stlzach
Only drawn the painful truths twice, both times it was outstanding. You will not convince me to drop the Ghost Quarters either I feel as though the ability to use Probe the same turn you drop Mentor on curve will win you the game in some matches (Jund, other grindy games), but against others it is completely useless and you might as well just play a different card instead. There are also times where you have 3 mentor tokens in play and top-deck the probe, where it becomes incredible. Then there's also the awkwardness of starting with it and inquisition in your opener. What's the consensus on Probe? When running both, which do you think you should play first on Turn 1? When I start with both I usually inquisition and save the probe for when it's either necessary to hit a land drop or when I have a mentor in play. Not sure if probing first to see what they have before you inquisition is better, since you would know if you have a [good] target for your inquisition.
Why run painful truths when we have access to esper charm
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Thoughts? Been playing a lot online. Streaming at Twitch.tv/stlzach
Only drawn the painful truths twice, both times it was outstanding. You will not convince me to drop the Ghost Quarters either I feel as though the ability to use Probe the same turn you drop Mentor on curve will win you the game in some matches (Jund, other grindy games), but against others it is completely useless and you might as well just play a different card instead. There are also times where you have 3 mentor tokens in play and top-deck the probe, where it becomes incredible. Then there's also the awkwardness of starting with it and inquisition in your opener. What's the consensus on Probe? When running both, which do you think you should play first on Turn 1? When I start with both I usually inquisition and save the probe for when it's either necessary to hit a land drop or when I have a mentor in play. Not sure if probing first to see what they have before you inquisition is better, since you would know if you have a [good] target for your inquisition.
I wouldn't say dead per se, but not much love. There's more activity in the esper draw go subforum. I'll post a decklist that I've been working on. Need to play test it a lot more though. It's somewhat of a port of the grixis lists floating around (i.e. http://modernnexus.com/the-evolution-of-grixis-control/).
My thoughts on Monastery Mentor: while on paper it's very powerful, I just don't think it gets the job done in modern at the moment. I don't really want that many probes in my deck, we don't have cheap card draw/card advantage (like vintage/legacy) nor do we have efficient fast mana (vintage). This deck wants to play out its disruption spells, but that's counter to what mentor wants. Do you inquisition before mentor or after? Don't you want to see if the coast is clear? Jamming a 3 mana 2/2 just to have it get bolted happens too often. Maybe we get 1 token out of it reliably, but that's not going to cut it.
As far as Lingering Souls go, I want some number in my deck. Maybe I should shave an esper charm for one more, but esper charm is very good. Need to test out more.
On Tombstalker: this deck is heavier black than many of the lists out there (esper charm, inquisition, charm, cut, tasigur) so playing a BB 5/5 flyer is more reasonable. I'm not sure this is better than angler, but flying is very relevant.
Does anyone still play the all-in delve version with Gurmag Angler and Tasigur? The list I've been playing has evolved into a suicide death's shadow deck but something more midrange with mentors is also plausible right?
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/rptq-top-8-decklists/oath-of-the-gatewatch-rptq-tokyo-2015-10-31
Decklist #3
3 Monastery Mentor
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Serum Visions
2 Remand
4 Thought Scour
1 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Murderous Cut
2 Spell Snare
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Disfigure
4 Lingering Souls
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Flashfreeze
2 Thoughtseize
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Stony Silence
3 Timely Reinforcements
I thought I'd mention a few cards,
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy/Jace, Telepath Unbound is super good. As a creature, Baby Jace often eats a removal spell once reserved for Monastery Mentor, but a flipped Jace can offer tons of longevity into later parts of the game. Flashing back removal spells and Serum Visions is really good. Filling up your graveyard fast enough to flip him with the first activation isn't hard with fetches and Thought Scour. If you don't flip him fast you're filtering through your deck and fueling delve and providing Snapcaster Mage Targets.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar I feel like he should be really good in this deck. With Mentor curving into him perfectly, providing a prowess trigger along with either another permanent anthem or a source of 2/2s with a 5/5 indestructible body. I think I want to add another.
I think I want more counters of some kind but I am unsure of what, probably another Remand or Spell Pierce and also don't know what to cut.
In the sideboard I like Hangarback Walker against Jund and other removal based decks that have to 2+ for 1. This card should see more modern play.
I still prefer Sorin aver the Ally of zendikar. Gives back life, tokens and boost. Pay 4 manas for a simple prowess trigger is expensive, even if it drops a 2/2. And the 5/5 body... bwarf. He is bloacked to easily, you can not block Tas/rhino with it, and if you play a list with board sweepers, the first version of Gideon is better (i play him and is really insane). Yes the Ally is amazing in standard, but there is better in modern.
Hangarback walker is a bit like Gideon, the ally. really good in standard, but in modern, with souls, pyroclasms, Kolagahn's command, electrolyse,..... he is not that good.
Jace is good, really. Fill the yard, recast for prowess trigger,... i should have buy them at 15$...
Voilà !
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This is very heartening for me to see because I've been playing with a deck that is fueled by jace, liliana, and souls. jace is the real deal, no questions asked. the 2 the guys plays in that top 8 is not enough. also liliana is as good as ever so why only play 1 I don't know. and they both interact so dirty with souls. Just beat an Abzan opponent, for example, but have been playing the current version for a little while now, previously playing a different sideboard but identical mb. I think the deck has what it takes.
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
2 Thought Scour
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
2 Disfigure
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Shambling Vent
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
2 Go for the Throat
2 Disenchant
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Meddling Mage
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Unburial Rites
There is a lot there but I want to point out specifically the manland suite, which is really the way to keep the threat density high. We play a lot of one drops and can operate on that down-a-land just fine with this build and is also why disfigure is so good. I have found murderous cut to compete with tasigur and jace too much and being able to play a one drop no questions asked to kill that early threat is what this deck needs. Mentor is still a premium threat and I've found that 2 is just enough to impact some games but not having 4 means you don't lean on it. Tasigur is beats. It's a really clean build that maxes out the utility of jace and snap, while providing just the needed threats to close out games, often falling back on manlands. GY hate hurts, but disenchent is the difference between grixis and esper. Zealous persecution is the much needed wrath that I will never again cut after a short haitus on it. I could hear arguments for sideboarding it, but this list is really tight after playing and tuning esper mentor since march.
The sauce at the end of the sideboard to really KO any matchup. Mage into Iona just beats so many uninteractive decks. Elesh norn does her thing and where those two don't cut it, the gifts for value usually is better anyway (jund, abzan). I have moved completely away from counters *gasp* and not looked back. I'd rather flood on discard and use jace and liliana to filter than risk not drawing that first turn interaction that can disrupt until I get online. everything else is purely necessary. Removal for creatures because apart from tasigur, esper doesn't have creatures that compete. disenchant and timely because we are playing white.
Including Liliana of the veil, however counterproductive it might seem, is freaking great. - +1 lingering souls is losing only half a card.
Get a big draw spell too like Sphinx's reveation or Painful truths for Jace to flashback so you can refuel. I feel that is fine as a 1-of.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Colonnade is a great finisher but I find with 22 lands it's not worth running more than 1. Creeping tar pit is amazing and shambling vent has proven it's worth against any deck using red
3 Monastery Mentor
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
[Spells]
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Lingering Souls
3 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Painful Truths
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Island
2 Cryptic Command
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Celestial Purge
4 Timely Reinforcements
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Stony Silence
3 Dispel
Thoughts? Been playing a lot online. Streaming at Twitch.tv/stlzach
Only drawn the painful truths twice, both times it was outstanding. You will not convince me to drop the Ghost Quarters either I feel as though the ability to use Probe the same turn you drop Mentor on curve will win you the game in some matches (Jund, other grindy games), but against others it is completely useless and you might as well just play a different card instead. There are also times where you have 3 mentor tokens in play and top-deck the probe, where it becomes incredible. Then there's also the awkwardness of starting with it and inquisition in your opener. What's the consensus on Probe? When running both, which do you think you should play first on Turn 1? When I start with both I usually inquisition and save the probe for when it's either necessary to hit a land drop or when I have a mentor in play. Not sure if probing first to see what they have before you inquisition is better, since you would know if you have a [good] target for your inquisition.
Really loving the idea of Raven's crime... This post is from a few months ago, are you still running it? Is anyone? Gonna test with it soon.
Wild, yea I don't remember much about the matches but nice to see you here. Since my last post I have dropped Gitaxian Probes for mana leak. More protection for Mentor and Tasigur.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/351511#paper
Not surprised that Painful Truths is good here. It's kinda exactly what mentor wants. I am, however, appalled that you have 0 copies of Zealous Persecution in your 75. Sweeper vs decks with x/1's (Affinity!), Saves Mentor from Bolt, and can really swing damage races or even 1-shot kill people with all the tokens you got floating around. What gives?
Why run painful truths when we have access to esper charm
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Do you still stream this deck? Also thoughts on Restoration angel
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
My current list is the following.
22 lands
8 "threats"
2 tasigur
1 Tombstalker
3 snapcaster
1 lingering souls
1 vendilion clique
14 disruption spells
3 remand
2 spell snare
2 cryptic command
1 dispel
2 logic knot
4 inquisition of kozilek
11 Utility
4 thought scour
3 serum visions
4 esper charm
5 kill spells
4 path
1 murderous cut
My thoughts on Monastery Mentor: while on paper it's very powerful, I just don't think it gets the job done in modern at the moment. I don't really want that many probes in my deck, we don't have cheap card draw/card advantage (like vintage/legacy) nor do we have efficient fast mana (vintage). This deck wants to play out its disruption spells, but that's counter to what mentor wants. Do you inquisition before mentor or after? Don't you want to see if the coast is clear? Jamming a 3 mana 2/2 just to have it get bolted happens too often. Maybe we get 1 token out of it reliably, but that's not going to cut it.
As far as Lingering Souls go, I want some number in my deck. Maybe I should shave an esper charm for one more, but esper charm is very good. Need to test out more.
On Tombstalker: this deck is heavier black than many of the lists out there (esper charm, inquisition, charm, cut, tasigur) so playing a BB 5/5 flyer is more reasonable. I'm not sure this is better than angler, but flying is very relevant.
4 Meddling Mage
3 Monastery Mentor
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (28):
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Mishra's bauble
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Path to exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Murderous cut
1 Remand
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless shrine
1 Watery Grave
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
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