Last Friday I took tied for 1st (we drew our last match) in a FNM with 15 people. I have been impressed by Grafted Wargear, it is another way to get ready of percy but I have found it much better to attach to some souls and beat down the opponent.
Great results. Grafted Wargear is a piece of tech I haven't seen before in this deck. Good eye, @herfs. (Nice budget build, too, btw.) I really like the idea of making the Spirit tokens count for something; I've been considering a Sword but the equip 2 slows it down. Those tokens have been feeling pretty useless to me lately as anything other than chump-block fodder unless I stumble into like three Lingering Souls in one game. Getting rid of Percy is a sweet bonus.
EDIT: Whoops, looks like Grafted Wargear is a @coldtonight find too. Man, this thread has been very helpful.
I have been traveling and unable to play for weeks but on Monday I will use this deck list:
I have been goldfishing this version against some decks on tappedout.net and am liking it so far. I have a pretty big meta with ~25+ players most Mondays and I never know what I'll see on any given night. I will report back next week.
Curious to hear reports from the players who are building Red into their decks, either Mardu or Rakdos. Fellas?
Also there's something I'd like to ask. Considering the fetches, shocklands, thoughtseize and dark confidant's how do you not die to self-inflicted lifeloss? I had some games were bob nearly killed me and I couldn't get it off of the board, this led me choose 2 Grafted Wargear (instead of swords) and miren in order to sac bob and percy. How do you get rid of them?
5-6 Discard
4 Path to exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
3 Lightning Helix (Here I answer you how to not suicide)
2 Terminate
2-3 Kolaghan's Command
Creatures: (This is a control deck that needs a creature to end the game fast)
X Pack Rat (Ends the game in 3 turns, require mana and cards)
X Goblin Rablemaster (Ends the game in 4 turns by itself)
X Dark Confidant
- Abyssal Persecutor if you want -
Planeswalker pack:
We can choose Lilianas, Ajanis WR, Elspeth, Sorins...
I knew this would come up, but I don't think it's set in stone... I had in the deck and I'm testing with other things instead. Anyway... the thing with the (here I answer you how to not suicide) doesn't really answer's it, since helix isn't used in the BW versions. How do they outlive their own bob's?
In general you want to make sure your mana curve is as low as possible; I try never to run more than three 4CMC cards in the deck at most (boarding in Damnation can mess this up). I almost never fetch a shockland unless I plan to leave it tapped. I never shockland --> thoughtseize. I run two Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, which turn my fetchlands into Swamps, minimizing life loss from the land base. (I've had the second copy of Urborg come up in my hand without a use for it maybe once in all my games; I like the two-of.) Dark Confidant often gets boarded out against aggro/Burn.
I am not hesitant to swing with Dark Confidant either, making my opponent decide how he wants to respond; kill it and improve my position or take the damage and improve my position? Grafted Wargear could really help here.
Just my $.02.
EDIT: I should add that the two most recent Sorins also see play for life gain reasons.
You're not missing anything, it's just the only thing I haven't tried against RGTron. It seems that ******* deck is undefeatable if you're playing midrange.
If you see a lot of Tron, what about a combination of things? Maybe add two (or better yet, even three) Ghost Quarter in your maindeck. (If you run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth you can get away with colorless lands much more easily, and your Plains frequently become dual lands too! I am 100% sold on a two-of for Urborg, personally.) Then maybe modify your sideboard to:
I see you like the consistency sideboards give with three-ofs. This might preserve some of the flexibility and consistency you already have while giving you 12-13 cards to aim at Tron post-board. What match-ups would suffer from this SB list, in your estimation? (P.S.: I prefer Pithing Needle to Phyrexian Revoker b/c it's cheaper, stops manlands cold, and is also harder to get rid of, but it's a judgment call, for sure.)
My record so far against Tron is 3-2. tidehollow sculler ive found works well against them. that extra hand disruption helps, and it doesnt allow for emrakul, the aeons torn to be shuffled back in their library. Or you can force them to use a kill spell to take out tidehollow.
Match 1: 2-0 vs. Mono-U Tron. In game 1, I Thoughtseized his Wurmcoil Engine T1 and then played Pack Rat T2. It went unanswered as he flooded and I swung unopposed for the 2-6-12 win. In game 2, I drew two of my three Fulminator Mages to keep him slowed down, and Pathed two Wurmcoils. I had Percy out and got him to -18 life. (He Ghost Quarter'ed my Miren, which was a good play and really turned the match into a grinder.) Then he played Platinum Angel which was awesome and funny. My life total was 31 after some Vault activations. For some reason he Ætherspouts'ed my Persecutor and then I Disenchanted his Angel (holding it for three turns before I drew a Thoughtseize to check for counterspells) for game and match. I played well but was also lucky in this match.
Match 2: 1-1-1 vs. BGr Rock. Game 1, he mulls to 5 and Pack Rat takes it while he fails to draw any gas. In game 2, his numerous manlands took me out. Game 3, I side in Fulminator Mage and his slow plays get us to the end of turns with me at 19 life and him at 3 life; I was so close. This one feels like a win to me.
Match 3: 2-1 vs. UG Infect. Game 1 I killed him with 2 Bobs pulling me all kinds of gas, and of course it's not regular damage you're worried about vs. Infect. He never did get more than a couple of critters out. In game 2 he just whittled me down, never swung through for more than a few points at a time. I made a mistake here and left my two Go for the Throat in the main; next game I sided those out for Disenchant to handle his Inkmoth Nexus. Game 3, I opened with Marsh Flats-->Godless Shrine-->Thoughtseize on T1 because I love doing that against Infect. Using my loads of spot removal I managed to keep him off his creatures and he never got any purchase against me at all.
Match 4: 0-2 vs. Living End. Only the second time I've played against this deck; in both games she got into a second cascade spell by turn 4 after I Thoughtseized her single opening hand copy . I didn't see Jötun Grunt at all in this matchup, or any of my sideboarded in Relic of Progenitus's or Damnations in game 2. Her deck worked like clockwork and I couldn't keep up. Surgical Extraction or Extirpate or Aven Mindcensor could really wreck a LE player's day though, I'd imagine. She taught me a cute trick when she used her one one copy of Fulminator Mage against me on multiple occasions using Living End, neatly wrecking my mana base. I was not shrewd enough to sideboard that one in against her for game 2 but it's not a play I'll overlook again. This girl went 4-0 tonight so I wasn't alone in being unprepared/unlucky. It's a big weekly meta for real.
I preferred this version of the deck by a wide margin. It felt much more capable than the earlier Blade Splicer/Restoration Angel take on Dead Guy, which to me always felt too conditional and weak. This was the first outing for me with Abyssal Persecutor and he was the 100% bomb I've been looking for. Jötun Grunt came in handy several times, and I think with so much discard and spot removal it is a keeper. I was praying I'd see him in match 4, and he was great against Scavenging Ooze in match two. (Also shines against 'Goyf, obviously.) Sometimes Grunt is unplayable early game and I don't think I'd run it as more than a two-of, though. Pack Rat was very good for me; there are some decks (and even more opponents' specific kept opening hands) that simply cannot keep up with it on a turn 2 play. Having removal out the a$$ was very handy too. The only time I felt like I didn't have enough answers was in match 4 against resolved Living Ends (in game two she had to resolve a second copy to put me down).
The Spirit Tokens felt extremely weak, again; They were useful as chump blockers but that was it. This week I will definitely be goldfishing the Grafted Wargear tech that coldtonight has brought to the table. I'm thinking about losing one Lingering Souls and one Go for the Throat to make room for two copies. If I end up running it in next week's tourney, I might also maindeck two Ghost Quarter and pull a Plains and Vault of the Archangel or Miren, the Moaning Well. Or maybe not. Decisions, decisions. BTW the two Urborgs continue to succeed for me and I encourage others to consider using a second, particularly if you run multiple utility lands.
I now have a more solid knowledge of the other decks out there, and that helped me tonight. I'm also making better plays, especially with using Dark Confidant very aggressively. But I feel sure that the deck is now stronger by a wide margin in this iteration, for my play style and in my meta. Many thanks to the board for the thoughtful ideas and shared experiences.
Yeah, I feel like lingering souls is even more amazing when you run 2 grafted wargears mainboard. Wargear is also useful when or if you want to get rid of active bobs and makes him big enough to take down a goyf.
How is liliana of the veil working out for you? I feel that people either love or hate her in this deck.
Why do you run engineered explosives? Is it some for zoo, merfolk, and boggles?
Why are you using relic instead of rest in peace?
What are your weakest matchups? For my deck, I feel that burn and aggro decks are pretty bad matchups. I haven't played against any amulet bloom or combo decks, but I imagine that they would be pretty bad also.
Thanks herfs, and thanks for the Wargear report. I would have never thought of that, equip 0 is the bomb. I have trouble with Merfolk, surprisingly, and other aggro decks, especially a Boros Burn deck I cross paths with every so often. For combo decks, if you know the combo a deck is looking to put together, the targeted disruption--I've been running 9--can take it apart, sometimes. I think I'm going to move to 4 TS/3 IoK going forward. Of course, combo is one reason why Surgical Extraction-like effects exist.
Next week I will run the same deck but -1 Sculler -1 Go for the Throat and +2 Wargear. I am trying hard to keep the average CMC down, for several reasons, but I want all 4 Souls for sure with the equipment so I'm ditching some (arguably) redundant 2 CMC disruption and removal.
I like Lili, with Souls and Bob she is excellent, and both +1 and -2 (which kills Thrun, Bogles, and all kinds of other stuff) are bad news for our opponent--not to mention her ultimate, which I've never hit. With Percy in the deck she is definitely the right call, because we do want to win. I find that during the game I usually either take the Pack Rat discard route OR the Lili discard route, because I never have enough cards for both until I'm top decking. Pack Rat has a way of taking on a train-like momentum and just playing out as a victory condition, the other big one being Percy of course. And now maybe Bobs and Spirits with big arms
EE is for Merfolk (which I hate and struggle with, truth be told), Tokens, Zoo, Bogles, Infect, Affinity, Elves, lots and lots of applicability. It's kind of bad against Merfolk because at 2 it hits Rat (and tokens), Sculler, Grunt, and Bob, so I'm often looking at wiping most or all of my side but not all of the whole field. That's not always a win, it turns out.
I use Relic of Progenitus because I hate exiling Lingering Souls (which I discard as much as possible), and nuking my Jötun Grunt, if I can avoid it. It's a little less fire and forget than Rest in Peace but it's a cantrip. To be honest I'm still not sure which one is better but I think especially with Wargear now I'll want to keep my graveyard handy as much as possible.
Sideboarding is a real struggle for me. I feel like I need 3 Kor Firewalker in my sideboard, burn makes me feel stupid. Surgical Extraction would be rad. But what to cut? So hard to find all the answers in only 75. I am open to a discussion of the best wide-ranged main- and side-boarding hate tech, if anyone has any ideas. Jötun Grunt is a prime example of mainboarded broadly applicable hate. Liliana is like the definition of card advantage. Pack Rat turns late game dead draws into a mob. What else fills multiple roles and brings the best value to the 75?
Thanks for the detailed reply deaddrift! You might be able to cut the two stony silences from your sideboard for some kor firewalkers. You already have engineered explosives and pithing needle that can deal with affinity. Thanks for reminding me about engineered explosives, I play against a naya burn deck every week and being able to blow up all of their creatures a turn earlier than wrath of god is a huge deal.
Mettix89 - Yes phyrexian obliterator has been brought up a few times before in previous bw midrange forums. I think that the main problem was the intensive BBBB mana cost which requires you to run 2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if you want to run any utility lands. He might be better in a black devotion (splashing white) build, but I would definitely try him out again. There are a lot of tasigur, the golden fangs and siege rhinos running around these days.
herfs, you're thinking the same way as me. I think especially with Grafted Wargear in the deck, the Stony Silence are the cards to cut from the sideboard to make room for something else. SS is so powerful that I hate to see it go, but it is also true that historically Affinity has been an easy match for me.
Obliterator is good but it seems to me that Percy is better. Obliterator dies to Dismember, which in my meta at least is common in decks of all colors. It is also MUCH harder to cast on turn 4 if you have white or colorless sources in your mana base. Turn 4 is almost always where I want my fatty coming down, unless I'm playing around removal or counterspells. Percy has evasion and can't be chumped (trample) and getting rid of him is no problem with my build (removal, Lili, Miren, Wargear). Percy is also less than 1/10 the price of Obliterator, and god knows this deck is spendy enough already.
With Wargear in the deck, Bob can kill Tasigur, Siege Rhino, etc., or swing for 5 damage, on turn 3. I'm sold on the equipment upgrade.
I didn't really like the Wargears, may take them off along with Bitterblossom and go back to 4x Pack Rat main.
I understand your ire against tron, what i have done is main deck 4 Ghost Quarter and side in 4 Rain of Tears, with 3 hero's downfall against their planeswalkers. As much as people dislike the card the two-drop Blind Obedience still does its work against Tron, slowing them down at least by one turn or more. my only bad matchup is against blue tron which has counterspells but that doesn't stop GQ or Blind Obedience on turns 1 and 2.
The problem with Tron is that if you waste a lot of slots in "Land-control" they will be useless witouth any preassure, you need to set a clock quickly, Thats why Tidehollow Sculler shiiiiineeees..
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EDIT: Whoops, looks like Grafted Wargear is a @coldtonight find too. Man, this thread has been very helpful.
I have been traveling and unable to play for weeks but on Monday I will use this deck list:
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
3 Mutavault
2 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creature:
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Pack Rat
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Go for the Throat
4 Path to Exile
2 Victim of Night
Sorcery:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
Planeswalker:
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Damnation
2 Disenchant
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
I have been goldfishing this version against some decks on tappedout.net and am liking it so far. I have a pretty big meta with ~25+ players most Mondays and I never know what I'll see on any given night. I will report back next week.
Curious to hear reports from the players who are building Red into their decks, either Mardu or Rakdos. Fellas?
Not exactly a report, but I have been trying to build around this mardu-colored "core". Help would be apreciated:
4 Path to Exile
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Darkblast
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Faithless Looting
3 Dark Confidant
2 Pack Rat
Discardable for card advantage
4 Lingering Souls
4 Bloodghast
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
There is still some room for change and improvements. This is what I'm currently testing:
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
2 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
3 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
3 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
(Aka, all the good stuff)
4 Path to Exile
2 Terminate
3 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Darkblast
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Grafted Wargear
Creatures
4 Bloodghast
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Pack Rat
3 Dark Confidant
Also there's something I'd like to ask. Considering the fetches, shocklands, thoughtseize and dark confidant's how do you not die to self-inflicted lifeloss? I had some games were bob nearly killed me and I couldn't get it off of the board, this led me choose 2 Grafted Wargear (instead of swords) and miren in order to sac bob and percy. How do you get rid of them?
My core would be:
5-6 Discard
4 Path to exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lingering Souls
3 Lightning Helix (Here I answer you how to not suicide)
2 Terminate
2-3 Kolaghan's Command
Creatures: (This is a control deck that needs a creature to end the game fast)
X Pack Rat (Ends the game in 3 turns, require mana and cards)
X Goblin Rablemaster (Ends the game in 4 turns by itself)
X Dark Confidant
- Abyssal Persecutor if you want -
Planeswalker pack:
We can choose Lilianas, Ajanis WR, Elspeth, Sorins...
I knew this would come up, but I don't think it's set in stone... I had in the deck and I'm testing with other things instead. Anyway... the thing with the (here I answer you how to not suicide) doesn't really answer's it, since helix isn't used in the BW versions. How do they outlive their own bob's?
Vault of the Archangel is a common one-of. Miren, the Moaning Well can get life from Jötun Grunt or Abyssal Persecutor, albeit for a steep mana cost.
In general you want to make sure your mana curve is as low as possible; I try never to run more than three 4CMC cards in the deck at most (boarding in Damnation can mess this up). I almost never fetch a shockland unless I plan to leave it tapped. I never shockland --> thoughtseize. I run two Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, which turn my fetchlands into Swamps, minimizing life loss from the land base. (I've had the second copy of Urborg come up in my hand without a use for it maybe once in all my games; I like the two-of.) Dark Confidant often gets boarded out against aggro/Burn.
I am not hesitant to swing with Dark Confidant either, making my opponent decide how he wants to respond; kill it and improve my position or take the damage and improve my position? Grafted Wargear could really help here.
Just my $.02.
EDIT: I should add that the two most recent Sorins also see play for life gain reasons.
In my Orzhov deck I play 4 Kitchen Finks and 3 Restoration Angel.
In my old Mardu: 3 Helix and 2 Sorins.
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mutavault
3 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
2 Godless Shrine
2 Blood Crypt
2 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Terminate
3 Lightning Helix
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Dark Confidant
3 Pack Rat
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Abyssal Persecutor
Planeswalker
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
4 Plains
6 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Bitterblossom
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Grafted Wargear
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Lingering Souls
4 Dark Confidant
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Contaminated Ground
3 Pack Rat
3 Surgical Extraction
Won 2-0 vs Dredgevine
Won 2-0 vs Naya Burn
Won 2-1 vs Jund
Lost 0-2 vs Tron.
I'm tired of losing to Tron. I've tried everything and notthing works, Stony Silence, Evil Presence, Contaminated Ground, Surgical Extraction, Rain of Tears, Fulminator Mage, whatever, they still win.
Only thing I haven't tried is Suppression Field and I bet they'll be able to beat that ***** too. All they have is mana.
I didn't really like the Wargears, may take them off along with Bitterblossom and go back to 4x Pack Rat main.
Feels good! But i would do -1 Swamp +1 Mountain, -1 Pack Rat +1 Goblin (And may be cut Abyssal for another Goblin)
2 Stony Silence
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Kor Firewalker
3x abyssal persecutor
3x tidehollow sculler
2x kitchen finks
2x pack rat
1x jotun grunt
4x path to exile
4 lingering souls
4x inquisition of kozilek
3x liliana of the veil
3x thoughtseize
3x victim of night
1x grafted wargear
4x godless shrine
2x bloodstained mire
2x arid mesa
5x swamp
3x plains
1x urborg tomb of yawgmoth
1x vault of the archangel
1x miren, the moaning well
3x wrath of god
3x timely reinforcements
2x rest in peace
3x fulminator mage
2x duress
2x stony silence
My record so far against Tron is 3-2. tidehollow sculler ive found works well against them. that extra hand disruption helps, and it doesnt allow for emrakul, the aeons torn to be shuffled back in their library. Or you can force them to use a kill spell to take out tidehollow.
Im trying out kitchen finks in place of sorin solemn visitor to cut down on the cmc but still help out with lifegain. Also makes 2 extra targets for grafted wargear.
Match 1: 2-0 vs. Mono-U Tron. In game 1, I Thoughtseized his Wurmcoil Engine T1 and then played Pack Rat T2. It went unanswered as he flooded and I swung unopposed for the 2-6-12 win. In game 2, I drew two of my three Fulminator Mages to keep him slowed down, and Pathed two Wurmcoils. I had Percy out and got him to -18 life. (He Ghost Quarter'ed my Miren, which was a good play and really turned the match into a grinder.) Then he played Platinum Angel which was awesome and funny. My life total was 31 after some Vault activations. For some reason he Ætherspouts'ed my Persecutor and then I Disenchanted his Angel (holding it for three turns before I drew a Thoughtseize to check for counterspells) for game and match. I played well but was also lucky in this match.
Match 2: 1-1-1 vs. BGr Rock. Game 1, he mulls to 5 and Pack Rat takes it while he fails to draw any gas. In game 2, his numerous manlands took me out. Game 3, I side in Fulminator Mage and his slow plays get us to the end of turns with me at 19 life and him at 3 life; I was so close. This one feels like a win to me.
Match 3: 2-1 vs. UG Infect. Game 1 I killed him with 2 Bobs pulling me all kinds of gas, and of course it's not regular damage you're worried about vs. Infect. He never did get more than a couple of critters out. In game 2 he just whittled me down, never swung through for more than a few points at a time. I made a mistake here and left my two Go for the Throat in the main; next game I sided those out for Disenchant to handle his Inkmoth Nexus. Game 3, I opened with Marsh Flats-->Godless Shrine-->Thoughtseize on T1 because I love doing that against Infect. Using my loads of spot removal I managed to keep him off his creatures and he never got any purchase against me at all.
Match 4: 0-2 vs. Living End. Only the second time I've played against this deck; in both games she got into a second cascade spell by turn 4 after I Thoughtseized her single opening hand copy . I didn't see Jötun Grunt at all in this matchup, or any of my sideboarded in Relic of Progenitus's or Damnations in game 2. Her deck worked like clockwork and I couldn't keep up. Surgical Extraction or Extirpate or Aven Mindcensor could really wreck a LE player's day though, I'd imagine. She taught me a cute trick when she used her one one copy of Fulminator Mage against me on multiple occasions using Living End, neatly wrecking my mana base. I was not shrewd enough to sideboard that one in against her for game 2 but it's not a play I'll overlook again. This girl went 4-0 tonight so I wasn't alone in being unprepared/unlucky. It's a big weekly meta for real.
I preferred this version of the deck by a wide margin. It felt much more capable than the earlier Blade Splicer/Restoration Angel take on Dead Guy, which to me always felt too conditional and weak. This was the first outing for me with Abyssal Persecutor and he was the 100% bomb I've been looking for. Jötun Grunt came in handy several times, and I think with so much discard and spot removal it is a keeper. I was praying I'd see him in match 4, and he was great against Scavenging Ooze in match two. (Also shines against 'Goyf, obviously.) Sometimes Grunt is unplayable early game and I don't think I'd run it as more than a two-of, though. Pack Rat was very good for me; there are some decks (and even more opponents' specific kept opening hands) that simply cannot keep up with it on a turn 2 play. Having removal out the a$$ was very handy too. The only time I felt like I didn't have enough answers was in match 4 against resolved Living Ends (in game two she had to resolve a second copy to put me down).
The Spirit Tokens felt extremely weak, again; They were useful as chump blockers but that was it. This week I will definitely be goldfishing the Grafted Wargear tech that coldtonight has brought to the table. I'm thinking about losing one Lingering Souls and one Go for the Throat to make room for two copies. If I end up running it in next week's tourney, I might also maindeck two Ghost Quarter and pull a Plains and Vault of the Archangel or Miren, the Moaning Well. Or maybe not. Decisions, decisions. BTW the two Urborgs continue to succeed for me and I encourage others to consider using a second, particularly if you run multiple utility lands.
I now have a more solid knowledge of the other decks out there, and that helped me tonight. I'm also making better plays, especially with using Dark Confidant very aggressively. But I feel sure that the deck is now stronger by a wide margin in this iteration, for my play style and in my meta. Many thanks to the board for the thoughtful ideas and shared experiences.
Yeah, I feel like lingering souls is even more amazing when you run 2 grafted wargears mainboard. Wargear is also useful when or if you want to get rid of active bobs and makes him big enough to take down a goyf.
How is liliana of the veil working out for you? I feel that people either love or hate her in this deck.
Why do you run engineered explosives? Is it some for zoo, merfolk, and boggles?
Why are you using relic instead of rest in peace?
What are your weakest matchups? For my deck, I feel that burn and aggro decks are pretty bad matchups. I haven't played against any amulet bloom or combo decks, but I imagine that they would be pretty bad also.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Next week I will run the same deck but -1 Sculler -1 Go for the Throat and +2 Wargear. I am trying hard to keep the average CMC down, for several reasons, but I want all 4 Souls for sure with the equipment so I'm ditching some (arguably) redundant 2 CMC disruption and removal.
I like Lili, with Souls and Bob she is excellent, and both +1 and -2 (which kills Thrun, Bogles, and all kinds of other stuff) are bad news for our opponent--not to mention her ultimate, which I've never hit. With Percy in the deck she is definitely the right call, because we do want to win. I find that during the game I usually either take the Pack Rat discard route OR the Lili discard route, because I never have enough cards for both until I'm top decking. Pack Rat has a way of taking on a train-like momentum and just playing out as a victory condition, the other big one being Percy of course. And now maybe Bobs and Spirits with big arms
EE is for Merfolk (which I hate and struggle with, truth be told), Tokens, Zoo, Bogles, Infect, Affinity, Elves, lots and lots of applicability. It's kind of bad against Merfolk because at 2 it hits Rat (and tokens), Sculler, Grunt, and Bob, so I'm often looking at wiping most or all of my side but not all of the whole field. That's not always a win, it turns out.
I use Relic of Progenitus because I hate exiling Lingering Souls (which I discard as much as possible), and nuking my Jötun Grunt, if I can avoid it. It's a little less fire and forget than Rest in Peace but it's a cantrip. To be honest I'm still not sure which one is better but I think especially with Wargear now I'll want to keep my graveyard handy as much as possible.
Sideboarding is a real struggle for me. I feel like I need 3 Kor Firewalker in my sideboard, burn makes me feel stupid. Surgical Extraction would be rad. But what to cut? So hard to find all the answers in only 75. I am open to a discussion of the best wide-ranged main- and side-boarding hate tech, if anyone has any ideas. Jötun Grunt is a prime example of mainboarded broadly applicable hate. Liliana is like the definition of card advantage. Pack Rat turns late game dead draws into a mob. What else fills multiple roles and brings the best value to the 75?
Mettix89 - Yes phyrexian obliterator has been brought up a few times before in previous bw midrange forums. I think that the main problem was the intensive BBBB mana cost which requires you to run 2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if you want to run any utility lands. He might be better in a black devotion (splashing white) build, but I would definitely try him out again. There are a lot of tasigur, the golden fangs and siege rhinos running around these days.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Obliterator is good but it seems to me that Percy is better. Obliterator dies to Dismember, which in my meta at least is common in decks of all colors. It is also MUCH harder to cast on turn 4 if you have white or colorless sources in your mana base. Turn 4 is almost always where I want my fatty coming down, unless I'm playing around removal or counterspells. Percy has evasion and can't be chumped (trample) and getting rid of him is no problem with my build (removal, Lili, Miren, Wargear). Percy is also less than 1/10 the price of Obliterator, and god knows this deck is spendy enough already.
With Wargear in the deck, Bob can kill Tasigur, Siege Rhino, etc., or swing for 5 damage, on turn 3. I'm sold on the equipment upgrade.
I understand your ire against tron, what i have done is main deck 4 Ghost Quarter and side in 4 Rain of Tears, with 3 hero's downfall against their planeswalkers. As much as people dislike the card the two-drop Blind Obedience still does its work against Tron, slowing them down at least by one turn or more. my only bad matchup is against blue tron which has counterspells but that doesn't stop GQ or Blind Obedience on turns 1 and 2.