Sorry that was suppose to be a reply to coldnight. It would be interesting to compare his list with abyssal persecutor vs Sirius' list with percy. Seeing as they both have had success.
Is there any chance that a deck like this can be built on a budget? I love midrange strategies but cards like Dark Confident and Liliana are bit out of reach for my budget, as is Thoughtseize. I might be able to slowly build up the necessary funds for some of these cards, but what do I put in to replace them?
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Unfortunately, that's not an option for me right now. I can't spend money to build a deck, and than spend more money to build something else. It's just not feasible for my budget. What if I just ran ton of discard to make up for the lack of card draw? Sin Collector, Duress, Despise, and Tidehollow Sculler sounds like a good start. I have mono red together, but I really want to try something new. A year of just mono red has really gotten me bored woth the deck.
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
Is there any chance that a deck like this can be built on a budget? I love midrange strategies but cards like Dark Confident and Liliana are bit out of reach for my budget, as is Thoughtseize. I might be able to slowly build up the necessary funds for some of these cards, but what do I put in to replace them?
I have been playing a budget version for a while now. Phyrexian arena is a great alternative to bob, but I prefer sign in blood or night's whisper.
I do have a Liliana, but I just favor Sorin, Solemn Visitor instead. Sorin with lingering souls is an amazing combination and it has brought me back from surely dying to winning the game easily.
I currently run 4 iok and 2 thoughtseize, just like coldtonight. You could use castigate instead of thoughtseize, but you might be better off running duress instead.
Unfortunately, that's not an option for me right now. I can't spend money to build a deck, and than spend more money to build something else. It's just not feasible for my budget. What if I just ran ton of discard to make up for the lack of card draw? Sin Collector, Duress, Despise, and Tidehollow Sculler sounds like a good start. I have mono red together, but I really want to try something new. A year of just mono red has really gotten me bored woth the deck.
Unfortunately, that's not an option for me right now. I can't spend money to build a deck, and than spend more money to build something else. It's just not feasible for my budget. What if I just ran ton of discard to make up for the lack of card draw? Sin Collector, Duress, Despise, and Tidehollow Sculler sounds like a good start. I have mono red together, but I really want to try something new. A year of just mono red has really gotten me bored woth the deck.
Phyrexian Arena -> Dark Confidant (and save a lot of money. I'm using Arenas for budget reasons and i'm quite satisfied. Or...you can try Pain Seer. With a decent disruption can give you a Confidant impression. You must clean the field of course;)
Discard options -> IoK and TS are both quite expensive; if you can't effot play a full playset of Tidehollow + a split of Duress and Despise.
Fetch -> or Khan's fetch that are good too. Or Pain Lands: Koilos Caves are really cheep right now.
Shocklands are not optional i guess. You can run Isolated Chapel instead of filters thogh
Let's Talk about aggro: if you use Arena or Sign in Blood (FYI i love arena over Sign), you can use widout fear Tasigur (or gurmrag angler for budget reasosn) in multiple copies: i run 2 tasigur and 1 gurmrag + 2 Bloodbaron of Vizkopa. Same agrument with 2x Sorin and 1x utter end (sometimes really usefull, like keranos, blood moon, Vedalken Shackless, Cranial Plating etc...).
And budget or not our Pack Rat is areally cheep card you're good with aggro.
Ofc i'm not sayng that is batter this way, i'm sayng that works for me using Arena. You will find a lot more frustrating in discard choises than card advantage engine. I guess at least you shoud consider IoK ...:S
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My Decks on Paper: UWR Control/Midrange/Delver UWR Twin Miss you GBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only) GWAura Hexproof GWHatebears
My budget is currently at about $100-150. I can definitely scrape up money for upgrades over time. My problem is that I want a fun and rather obscure deck to play, and I'm sick of playing Goblins. I'll definitely try Arena and the suggestions people have given me. Thanks guys!
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- In my experience Vampire nighthawk is too weak for the format right now, I run Kitchen Finks maindeck instead.
- While I started the deck because i liked Pack Rat too much, after upgrading the deck constantly it got removed for being the worst card in the deck, its too slow and consume cards to be efective... Its only good in top-deck mode and only if the oponent doesnt have answers.
- I would add 1-2 more Mutavaults (Specilly if u decide to keep Pack Rat)(adding Muta doesnt means removing lands, In my opinion 22 is risky but Ok, 23 is perfect and 24 can be more than enought but safe spot). 25 lands Only if: [A] You decide to run 6-7 colorless lands and [B] You run 4 Dark Confidant
- 13/14 Posible Black mana on Turn 1 (For discard)
- 4 Marsh Flats is the best (This could be your first buy)
- I own Bloodstained Mire too, but i'm trying to trade them for White-mana Fetchlands (Flooded strand or Windstep H.) because I run 4 Kitchen Finks and 1 Elspeth and I need 2 white manas in the 3rd turn
- Try to get 1 (Some people like 2) Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
. Fetid Heath sucks if you run 3 or more colorless lands.
. I never tryed Koilos, they feel unnecesary... Isolated chapel is really cool, I usually run -+3
. 4 Marsh Flats base, then u can add 1-2 More fetchlands if you want, 7-8 is too much damage in my opinion, if you dont get color screw then fetchlands isnt necesary, they are here only to search for colors
. Tidehollow Sculler and Removal numbers depends on your metagame... I used to run 4 Sculler and 5 Removal, the meta becomed more Aggro and I'm actually 3 Scullers (with 6 discards and 3 lilianas) and 4 Paths, 3 Go for the throat.
Slaughter Pact used to be awesome... Now there are more Black creatures around (Pact can't kill black creatures): Dark Confidant, Angler, Tasigur are enought reasons, in my meta I fight against 3 grixis decks!!
I choosed Go for the throat because Affinity is my easiest matchup, but i'm thinking in may be swap 1 or 2 for Dismembers
My budget is currently at about $100-150. I can definitely scrape up money for upgrades over time. My problem is that I want a fun and rather obscure deck to play, and I'm sick of playing Goblins. I'll definitely try Arena and the suggestions people have given me. Thanks guys!
You can try sign in blood instead of bob. Insteal of liliana of the veil just run more removal or something you think will be usefull. The rest of the deck is quiet cheap actually.
I'm running this list in a PPTQ Sunday. I built this a few weeks ago after playing GR Tron for some time. I've done a lot of testing with it since. There's only 3 Bobs as a friend won't be able to get my 4th to me in time. I'm expecting a heavy Twin and grixis meta with a smattering of affinity and fish. Anyhow, thanks for all the tips in this thread.
. //Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Mutavault
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
//Spells
1 Darkblast
2 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Thoughtseize
//Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Dark Confidant
3 Pack Rat
4 Tidehollow Sculler
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 3 Celestial Purge
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 1 Spellskite
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Pack Rat
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Modern Decks BWDeadguy AleBW BWUDeadgeist AleBWU GRTronGR GWBAbzan Angel Chord of HateGWB
I'm running this list in a PPTQ Sunday. I built this a few weeks ago after playing GR Tron for some time. I've done a lot of testing with it since. There's only 3 Bobs as a friend won't be able to get my 4th to me in time. I'm expecting a heavy Twin and grixis meta with a smattering of affinity and fish. Anyhow, thanks for all the tips in this thread.
. //Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Mutavault
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
//Spells
1 Darkblast
2 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Thoughtseize
//Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Dark Confidant
3 Pack Rat
4 Tidehollow Sculler
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 3 Celestial Purge
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 1 Spellskite
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Pack Rat
Well you don't have many ways of getting rid of your own persecutor so I could see that being a problem. Slaughter pact and darkblast both dont kill it. I am also not big on slaughter pact right now because it does not kill the big delve fatties. You also are going to have a difficult time with burn. I would add the land that lets you sacrifice a creature to gain life equal to its toughness. It will help both these matchups.
I tried out Miren, the Moaning Well as a sac outlet for Percy and was not happy with it. I never needed it even when I ran 3 Percy. I switched it out for a 4th Mutavault. With 6 kill spells and 3 Liliana its been easy to remove. Not to mention that they rarely survive more than a turn otherwise with the many terminates flying around. The Slaughter Pact is a concession to the sheer number of Twin players in my area. Likewise Burn is nearly nonexistent in my area. It's a match up I frankly hope to dodge.
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Overall, I am pretty happy with this version of the deck. I am a huge fan of Abyssal Persecutor, he is just a huge threat and is one of the biggest creature in Modern. I have been impressed by Grafted Wargear, it is another way to get ready of percy but I have found it much better to attach to some souls and beat down the opponent. Miren, the Moaning Well is pretty much in there in order to sacrifice percy against control.
Here were my matchups:
Match 1:
I played against some GW deck, it was pretty easy and pack rat was pretty amazing.
Match 2 (2-0):
Merfolk
The first game I was able to iok way aether vial turn one then I just one for one all of his creatures until he ran out of gas and I beat him down.
The second game he mulliganed down to 4 and conceded.
Match 3 (3-0):
Grixis Control:
These were the only match-ups all night long where I feel like I wasn't playing catch-up and was in control the whole time.
The first game I was able to iok snapcaster and was able to have more creatures then he had answers to.
The second game I played a turn 2 rest in peace, it was easy going after then.
Match 4 (we drew, but we played it out and I lost 1-2):
It was against a naya burn deck, he pretty much had goblin guides, kird ape, monastery swiftspear, wild nacatl, and a lot of burn.
Game 1: He killed me turn 3, I didn't have a chance.
Game 2: He got me down to 4 life by turn 5, but I lucky enough that he didn't draw a boros charm for a few turns while I layed the lingering souls beat down.
Game 3: He killed me turn 3, if he didn't get me by then I had the game. My hand was full of kor firewalker's and kill spells.
The underperformers of the night were sadly pack rat, darkblast and Vault of the Archangel. Pack rat is amazing if the board state is even around turn 3 or 4, but falls short if I am playing against an aggro or burn deck. I think that I am going to drop to 2 pack rats and add a few kitchen finks or some other 3 CMC spell. As for darkblast, I am tempted to run another go for the throat or some other kill spell. I am still undecided what to do about vault of the archangel.
Congrats on the win(s)! Overall I like your deck. Mine is very similar to yours but I run liliana instead of gatekeeper, 2 jotun grunt(because he has great synergy with liliana)and yes 2 kitchen finks. grafted wargear works quite well with all the creatures in this deck.
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This is my actual list:
(Note that this is designed for my metagame)
3 Restoration Angel
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
3 Go for the throat
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana of the veil
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
3 Mutavault
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Any chance to get what list?
I have been playing a budget version for a while now. Phyrexian arena is a great alternative to bob, but I prefer sign in blood or night's whisper.
I do have a Liliana, but I just favor Sorin, Solemn Visitor instead. Sorin with lingering souls is an amazing combination and it has brought me back from surely dying to winning the game easily.
I currently run 4 iok and 2 thoughtseize, just like coldtonight. You could use castigate instead of thoughtseize, but you might be better off running duress instead.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Much of the money part of BW tokens is transferable to Dead Guy; Marsh Flats (please god let's have a reissue of the Zendikar fetches in October), Godless Shrine, Fetid Heath, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Path to Exile: all of these play in both decks. Some players of Dead Guy also run Elspeth, Knight-Errant and, as mentioned, Sorin, Solemn Visitor. FWIW, I started with Tokens before moving to midrange myself.
So what's your budget then?
Phyrexian Arena -> Dark Confidant (and save a lot of money. I'm using Arenas for budget reasons and i'm quite satisfied. Or...you can try Pain Seer. With a decent disruption can give you a Confidant impression. You must clean the field of course;)
Discard options -> IoK and TS are both quite expensive; if you can't effot play a full playset of Tidehollow + a split of Duress and Despise.
Fetch -> or Khan's fetch that are good too. Or Pain Lands: Koilos Caves are really cheep right now.
Shocklands are not optional i guess. You can run Isolated Chapel instead of filters thogh
Let's Talk about aggro: if you use Arena or Sign in Blood (FYI i love arena over Sign), you can use widout fear Tasigur (or gurmrag angler for budget reasosn) in multiple copies: i run 2 tasigur and 1 gurmrag + 2 Bloodbaron of Vizkopa. Same agrument with 2x Sorin and 1x utter end (sometimes really usefull, like keranos, blood moon, Vedalken Shackless, Cranial Plating etc...).
And budget or not our Pack Rat is areally cheep card you're good with aggro.
Ofc i'm not sayng that is batter this way, i'm sayng that works for me using Arena. You will find a lot more frustrating in discard choises than card advantage engine. I guess at least you shoud consider IoK ...:S
UWR Control/Midrange/Delver
UWR TwinMiss youGBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only)
GWAura Hexproof
GWHatebears
- While I started the deck because i liked Pack Rat too much, after upgrading the deck constantly it got removed for being the worst card in the deck, its too slow and consume cards to be efective... Its only good in top-deck mode and only if the oponent doesnt have answers.
- I would add 1-2 more Mutavaults (Specilly if u decide to keep Pack Rat)(adding Muta doesnt means removing lands, In my opinion 22 is risky but Ok, 23 is perfect and 24 can be more than enought but safe spot). 25 lands Only if: [A] You decide to run 6-7 colorless lands and [B] You run 4 Dark Confidant
- 13/14 Posible Black mana on Turn 1 (For discard)
- 4 Marsh Flats is the best (This could be your first buy)
- I own Bloodstained Mire too, but i'm trying to trade them for White-mana Fetchlands (Flooded strand or Windstep H.) because I run 4 Kitchen Finks and 1 Elspeth and I need 2 white manas in the 3rd turn
- Try to get 1 (Some people like 2) Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
. Fetid Heath sucks if you run 3 or more colorless lands.
. I never tryed Koilos, they feel unnecesary... Isolated chapel is really cool, I usually run -+3
. 4 Marsh Flats base, then u can add 1-2 More fetchlands if you want, 7-8 is too much damage in my opinion, if you dont get color screw then fetchlands isnt necesary, they are here only to search for colors
. Tidehollow Sculler and Removal numbers depends on your metagame... I used to run 4 Sculler and 5 Removal, the meta becomed more Aggro and I'm actually 3 Scullers (with 6 discards and 3 lilianas) and 4 Paths, 3 Go for the throat.
Slaughter Pact used to be awesome... Now there are more Black creatures around (Pact can't kill black creatures): Dark Confidant, Angler, Tasigur are enought reasons, in my meta I fight against 3 grixis decks!!
I choosed Go for the throat because Affinity is my easiest matchup, but i'm thinking in may be swap 1 or 2 for Dismembers
You can try sign in blood instead of bob. Insteal of liliana of the veil just run more removal or something you think will be usefull. The rest of the deck is quiet cheap actually.
3 marsh flats are fine. Just rune 2 or 3 more fetches from khans that lets you have black (or white if it's the predominant color in your deck)
. //Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Mutavault
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
//Spells
1 Darkblast
2 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Thoughtseize
//Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Dark Confidant
3 Pack Rat
4 Tidehollow Sculler
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 3 Celestial Purge
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Disfigure
SB: 1 Spellskite
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Pack Rat
BWDeadguy AleBW
BWUDeadgeist AleBWU
GRTronGR
GWBAbzan Angel Chord of HateGWB
Well you don't have many ways of getting rid of your own persecutor so I could see that being a problem. Slaughter pact and darkblast both dont kill it. I am also not big on slaughter pact right now because it does not kill the big delve fatties. You also are going to have a difficult time with burn. I would add the land that lets you sacrifice a creature to gain life equal to its toughness. It will help both these matchups.
BWDeadguy AleBW
BWUDeadgeist AleBWU
GRTronGR
GWBAbzan Angel Chord of HateGWB
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Smother
1 Darkblast
1 Go for the Throat
1 Victim of Night
Artifacts:
2 Grafted Wargear
Planeswalkers:
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Pack Rat
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Abyssal Persecutor
Lands:
2 Mutavault
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
18 Other lands
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
2 Rain of Tears
2 Stony Silence
1 Memoricide
1 Utter End
1 Geth's Verdict
2 Day of Judgment
2 Kor Firewalker
Overall, I am pretty happy with this version of the deck. I am a huge fan of Abyssal Persecutor, he is just a huge threat and is one of the biggest creature in Modern. I have been impressed by Grafted Wargear, it is another way to get ready of percy but I have found it much better to attach to some souls and beat down the opponent. Miren, the Moaning Well is pretty much in there in order to sacrifice percy against control.
Here were my matchups:
Match 1:
I played against some GW deck, it was pretty easy and pack rat was pretty amazing.
Match 2 (2-0):
Merfolk
The first game I was able to iok way aether vial turn one then I just one for one all of his creatures until he ran out of gas and I beat him down.
The second game he mulliganed down to 4 and conceded.
Match 3 (3-0):
Grixis Control:
These were the only match-ups all night long where I feel like I wasn't playing catch-up and was in control the whole time.
The first game I was able to iok snapcaster and was able to have more creatures then he had answers to.
The second game I played a turn 2 rest in peace, it was easy going after then.
Match 4 (we drew, but we played it out and I lost 1-2):
It was against a naya burn deck, he pretty much had goblin guides, kird ape, monastery swiftspear, wild nacatl, and a lot of burn.
Game 1: He killed me turn 3, I didn't have a chance.
Game 2: He got me down to 4 life by turn 5, but I lucky enough that he didn't draw a boros charm for a few turns while I layed the lingering souls beat down.
Game 3: He killed me turn 3, if he didn't get me by then I had the game. My hand was full of kor firewalker's and kill spells.
The underperformers of the night were sadly pack rat, darkblast and Vault of the Archangel. Pack rat is amazing if the board state is even around turn 3 or 4, but falls short if I am playing against an aggro or burn deck. I think that I am going to drop to 2 pack rats and add a few kitchen finks or some other 3 CMC spell. As for darkblast, I am tempted to run another go for the throat or some other kill spell. I am still undecided what to do about vault of the archangel.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange