How do you guys do against aggro matchups? I'm really having trouble with Affinity, Zoo and Elves at least in game 1. I feel like I play enough removal but it still doesn't seem enough for those matchups. That's why I consider splashing red for Bolts and Helixes (maybe even Anger) hoping that will improve my aggro matchups while not significantly hindering my other matchups. Also, tron gives me trouble and splashing red would give me access to Sowing Salt.
You run 11 removal spells and most of them can't target everything. I run 12 removal (4 Lilly, 4 Path, 4 Victim) and don't have trouble with Affinity or Zoo. Elves is a problem but Elves is a combo deck that looks like an aggro deck, so long as you kill the lords and Ezuri, their creatures will be ***** against rats or even spirit tokens.
I dont know if you guys want me to keep posting in thie thread about the Red-splashed version
It gets better, with practice... Its hard to find the strategy, I know i cant build a green-less jund because that would be just lose my time and create a worst version of it, Orzhov midrange is pretty solid, I know because its the only deck I own, bue it got several weak points
To make it short, I've tried lots of BWR lists till now, this is my Cocatrice deck list:
Lol.. Well there were only 8-11 matches with every deck and then I move to change some numbers and add/remove some cards
I think i have found a tactic that works really well, it's similar to Midrange and Tempo.
This sinergy has been fantastic: Goblin Rabblemaster + Pack Rat + Mutavault
And i think its the way to go.
The deck's curve is Bob friendly now
I think i have found a tactic that works really well, it's similar to Midrange and Tempo.
This sinergy has been fantastic: Goblin Rabblemaster + Pack Rat + Mutavault
With relic of progenitus main board against goyfs, lingering souls, snapcaster mages, post board blood moon just gives free wins. I can run mutavaults and pack rats by not having a third color. And lavaclaw reaches. Although it's not the best man land, it still is useful sometimes and can get wins.
Also, Olivia Voldaren is a beast.
BR just has better removal, we lose path to exile but we get terminate which is better in a lot of situations.
The thing with white is that adds more removal: Helix and Path..
The decks works like UW midrange, you clear the table for Goblin rabblemaster and Pack Rat with tons of removal and they wins the game in 3 turns. Both creatures got a great clock
Also, whitouth white we just LOSE agains burn. No Lightning Helix, no Kor Firewalker, no Timely Reinforcements... Please tell me if I'm wrong, how do you win against faster aggro decks with BR? any card im missing?
[Needles to say, adding bitterblossom without lifegain its super risky].. Fetchslands, thoughtseize, bitterblossom, Dark Confidant
White is the best sideboard color. Rakdos is my all time favorite color combo but it's not worth it in Modern right now in my opinion. It's too frail and easy to hate on.
Went 3-2 today.
1-2 vs Burn.
He won both matches by having natural turn 1 Leyline of Punishment to neuter my lifegain.
1-2 vs UR Delver.
Game 1 was too long and too good, he won at 1 life. Game 2 he couldn't keep a permanent on the field. Game 3 I drew no removal at all.
2-0 vs Affinity.
Even without Disenchant it's a very easy match.
2-0 vs Storm.
I didn't think I'd win this one but Persecutor's crazy fast clock won game 1, and I extracted Grapeshot and the goblin on the first two turns of game 2.
2-0 vs Jund.
Persecutor surprised again, game 2 Pack Rat and Bob quickly over-ran an army of Goyfs after we stalled.
Didn't make top 8 because the Burn player lost every other game and dragged me to 10th place under two other 3-2 players.
Zealous Persecution wasn't useful at all, I know if I take it out I'll be faced by elves all day everyday but whatever, I'd rather shore more matches than have a "silver bullet" that theoretically helps vs other matches (Affinity, Infect, Twin) that are already easy for the deck.
I'm juggling between Languish because Percy survives and I'm not spending on Damnation. Phyrexian Revoker to help with the random wild Tron. Utter End for random ***** like say Leyline of Punishment without over-commiting and ending up without targets as happened with Disenchant. Or Duress to go full hand-hating+extraction mode vs blue and combo decks.
8 Discard + 4 Liliana feels like a lot... You sure have awfull topdecks in the late game, if Pack Rat didnt make it to late your chances to recover are very little.
In my experience, Disruption witouth agresion/threat = useless. I learned it the hard way
You can have all discards spells you want, all removal you like but... In the end, if you dont put preassure, its not worth it, He'll recover. Especially now with cards like Colected Company, Top-decked Etched Champion, or "draw scapeshift - Win"
Second game he starts with Leonin Arbiter and 2 Ghost Quarter, and I Tidehollow Sculler, so he destroy my 2 lands. He had Aether vial but didnt put any preasure and I can recover. Dropped 2xDark Confidant and go from 14 to 2 Lifes in 3 turns with bobs, but thats too much card advantaje and I can win the game easily, removing my Own confidants with Path to exile and had Liliana of the veil for the other one if he didnt scoope hehe
I dont remember the second game very well, but he burns me of couse i cant put enought preassure and didnt draw any SB card even mulligan to 6 and nothing
We both dont cast anything to not lose 4 life for about 2 turns... Then he attacks with both and I block. He Skullcrack and i dont win any life from kitchen's ability. then he cast Rift Bolt.
My only hope is to draw Restoration Angel to win life while dodging Eidolon... But draw a Tidehollow sculler...He got 2 cards in hand...
My only option is to cast sculler and take 2 from eidolon and take his burn spell, and hope he dont draw any other... But He reveals 2 Lightning bolt and game over. [restoration angel was 2 cards deep in the deck :P]
Uwr control:
First game was looong... We both casts spells, discards, counters etc... I keep a liliana, but he got a Celestial Colonnade who connects 3 hits on me. then i draw Path which is countered and lose.
I know you posted a while ago but i just wanted to mention that i am on a similar budget and have a more control style list. This is what I use and in my very competitive FNM, and I usually go about 3/1/0 or 2/2/0. I do not have any Dark Confidant or Brimaz, King of Oreskos, too poor to afford that. Blind Obedience will win games when you stabilize and helps swing Life back in your favor. So before you hate on it try it out first, I have found that it makes my removal twice as effective since it negates haste and taps the only blockers that they have for two free combat steps. Also versus control magic, extort is guaranteed life swing in our favor.
I played him before but I had trouble with double white since I'm also running Liliana. Now I'm considering trying again since I quite like how he builds pressure quickly.
Regarding Amulet - If they resolve Hive Mind and have a pact in hand, disenchant doesn't help you because they receive priority as Hive Mind resolves and can pact straight away. Chalice on 0 stops them from actually using pacts but if they have a Hive Mind out only the original spell gets countered and you still get the copy. That being said, the strategy against them is pretty much what you said + Fulminator Mages to slow them down.
3 Brimaz has worked fine for the most part, since I'm not running Liliana (yet) getting double white hasn't been too much of an issue (unless I get the double Mutavault and one fetch land type hand). He's so good against Aggro, and provides a good clock. Being bolt-proof is always nice too.
Thanks for the tips on playing against Amulet, it was the first time I'd played against it. Good to know that I was at least on the right track!
I beat G/R Tron last night 2-1, in game 1 he crushed me with turn 3 Karn followed up by another Karn after I killed the first one. I brought in 2 Stony Silence and 2 Fulminator Mage from the board, and they were enough to get me there games 2 and 3. Shutting off their eggs and Maps slows them down a good deal, and Fulminator can either keep them off Tron, or like it did for me last night, mess up their colored mana sources so they can't Pyroclasm/Ancient Stirrings/Sylvan Scrying. I was lucky to see both sideboard cards in both games, it's definitely a tough matchup without them. I also run two Ghost Quarter MD which helped game 2. Holding up Path for their Wurmcoils is essential.
The Mardu version isnt working so well like my classic Orzhov version in cocatrice, till it get some good 4 drop and be able to Midrange like Abzan, I'll return to WB where i feel more confortable, is more controlish (with all combo around) and has a better mana base.-
I found Gideon very good in our deck, its a ******* Giant wall for the enemies who cant ignore him, He Forces bad attacks just to trade creatures with our tokens or Kitchen Finks and them he can kill Tapped creatures or be a 6/6 indestructible wincon lategame.
(Also stops Twin from winning)
You run 11 removal spells and most of them can't target everything. I run 12 removal (4 Lilly, 4 Path, 4 Victim) and don't have trouble with Affinity or Zoo. Elves is a problem but Elves is a combo deck that looks like an aggro deck, so long as you kill the lords and Ezuri, their creatures will be ***** against rats or even spirit tokens.
It gets better, with practice... Its hard to find the strategy, I know i cant build a green-less jund because that would be just lose my time and create a worst version of it, Orzhov midrange is pretty solid, I know because its the only deck I own, bue it got several weak points
To make it short, I've tried lots of BWR lists till now, this is my Cocatrice deck list:
Mardu 1.0.cod
Mardu 1.1.cod
Mardu 1.2.cod
Mardu 1.3 liliana in SB.cod
Mardu 1.4 No urborg.cod
Mardu 1.5 +Olivia.cod
Mardu 1.6 Resto+splicer, 22 lands.cod
Mardu 2.0.cod
Mardu 2.1.cod
Rakdos testing.cod
Rakdos testing2.cod
BRW aggro.cod
Lol.. Well there were only 8-11 matches with every deck and then I move to change some numbers and add/remove some cards
I think i have found a tactic that works really well, it's similar to Midrange and Tempo.
This sinergy has been fantastic: Goblin Rabblemaster + Pack Rat + Mutavault
And i think its the way to go.
The deck's curve is Bob friendly now
Actual list:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Pack Rat
1 Olivia Voldaren
//Hechizos
3 Lingering Souls
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Terminate
2 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mutavault
//Sideboard
1 Relic of Progenitus Gravey hate
1 Rest in Peace Gravey hate
1 Zealous Persecution Vs token, affinity, elves, etc
3 Fulminator Mage Vs Ramp tactics
2 Sowing Salt Vs Ramp tactics
2 Timely Reinforcements Vs Aggro
2 Kor Firewalker Vs Aggro
1 Kolaghan's Command 3rd copy
1 Lingering Souls 4rd copy
1 Rakdos Charm Another artifact hate, anti-twin, graveyard all in 1
Do you really need white in that list? Maybe BR is more consistent with Bitterblossom instead of Lingering Souls and Terminate / murderous Cut / Dismember instead of Path to Exil
With relic of progenitus main board against goyfs, lingering souls, snapcaster mages, post board blood moon just gives free wins. I can run mutavaults and pack rats by not having a third color. And lavaclaw reaches. Although it's not the best man land, it still is useful sometimes and can get wins.
Also, Olivia Voldaren is a beast.
BR just has better removal, we lose path to exile but we get terminate which is better in a lot of situations.
The decks works like UW midrange, you clear the table for Goblin rabblemaster and Pack Rat with tons of removal and they wins the game in 3 turns. Both creatures got a great clock
Also, whitouth white we just LOSE agains burn. No Lightning Helix, no Kor Firewalker, no Timely Reinforcements... Please tell me if I'm wrong, how do you win against faster aggro decks with BR? any card im missing?
[Needles to say, adding bitterblossom without lifegain its super risky].. Fetchslands, thoughtseize, bitterblossom, Dark Confidant
Anyways
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
4 Plains
6 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Rest in Peace
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Victim of Night
3 Zealous Persecution
Went 3-2 today.
1-2 vs Burn.
He won both matches by having natural turn 1 Leyline of Punishment to neuter my lifegain.
1-2 vs UR Delver.
Game 1 was too long and too good, he won at 1 life. Game 2 he couldn't keep a permanent on the field. Game 3 I drew no removal at all.
2-0 vs Affinity.
Even without Disenchant it's a very easy match.
2-0 vs Storm.
I didn't think I'd win this one but Persecutor's crazy fast clock won game 1, and I extracted Grapeshot and the goblin on the first two turns of game 2.
2-0 vs Jund.
Persecutor surprised again, game 2 Pack Rat and Bob quickly over-ran an army of Goyfs after we stalled.
Didn't make top 8 because the Burn player lost every other game and dragged me to 10th place under two other 3-2 players.
Zealous Persecution wasn't useful at all, I know if I take it out I'll be faced by elves all day everyday but whatever, I'd rather shore more matches than have a "silver bullet" that theoretically helps vs other matches (Affinity, Infect, Twin) that are already easy for the deck.
I'm juggling between Languish because Percy survives and I'm not spending on Damnation. Phyrexian Revoker to help with the random wild Tron. Utter End for random ***** like say Leyline of Punishment without over-commiting and ending up without targets as happened with Disenchant. Or Duress to go full hand-hating+extraction mode vs blue and combo decks.
In my experience, Disruption witouth agresion/threat = useless. I learned it the hard way
You can have all discards spells you want, all removal you like but... In the end, if you dont put preassure, its not worth it, He'll recover. Especially now with cards like Colected Company, Top-decked Etched Champion, or "draw scapeshift - Win"
Congratz man
Anyone?
Affinity: 2 - 0
White Taxes: 2 - 0
Burn: 1 - 2
UWR Control: 0 - 2
Round 1:
Affinity: Easy Match, I discard Ravager over Etched Champion, because I had doble mutavault, then lingering Souls and Bladesplicer Golem do the job
game 2: Starting hand with Disenchant, it destroys Cranial Plating... we go late game.. He got 1 inkmoth nexus, 1 blinkmoth nexus, 1 etched champion, 1 Ornithopter, 2 Signal pest (I got 5 poison).. I got 1 bladesplicer, 1 Golem, 1 Mutavault. And topdeck Lingering souls... Then he draws Steel Overseer, and I draw Path to exile and win the game.
Taxes: First game Thoughtseize + Tidehollow Sculler starts very good... the game continues and I win with a 2/1 and tapped Kitchen finks being target of my Restoration angel and surprise blocking.
Second game he starts with Leonin Arbiter and 2 Ghost Quarter, and I Tidehollow Sculler, so he destroy my 2 lands. He had Aether vial but didnt put any preasure and I can recover. Dropped 2xDark Confidant and go from 14 to 2 Lifes in 3 turns with bobs, but thats too much card advantaje and I can win the game easily, removing my Own confidants with Path to exile and had Liliana of the veil for the other one if he didnt scoope hehe
BURN:
I start with Inquisition of kozilek, and in turn 3:Kitchen finks... Started a hard race against burn spells (he didnt drooped any creature) then in turn 4 i cast Liliana of the veil and sacrifice my Kitchen finks to win 2 life and in the next turn go Restoration Angel for +2 life again and win.
I dont remember the second game very well, but he burns me of couse i cant put enought preassure and didnt draw any SB card even mulligan to 6 and nothing
Game 3: I discarded Skullcrack over Eidolon of the Great Revel [BIG MISTAKE] ... I just had Kitchen finks in hand and didnt want him to cancel my lifegain.
But then he droops Eidolon of the Great Revel followed by another Eidolon of the Great Revel... So the table is:
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel vs 1 Kitchen finks. Enemy HP: 14 My HP: 12.
We both dont cast anything to not lose 4 life for about 2 turns... Then he attacks with both and I block. He Skullcrack and i dont win any life from kitchen's ability. then he cast Rift Bolt.
My only hope is to draw Restoration Angel to win life while dodging Eidolon... But draw a Tidehollow sculler...He got 2 cards in hand...
My only option is to cast sculler and take 2 from eidolon and take his burn spell, and hope he dont draw any other... But He reveals 2 Lightning bolt and game over. [restoration angel was 2 cards deep in the deck :P]
Uwr control:
First game was looong... We both casts spells, discards, counters etc... I keep a liliana, but he got a Celestial Colonnade who connects 3 hits on me. then i draw Path which is countered and lose.
Game two was even longer... He controls the board with this card: >>> izzet staticaster <<< blows 4 Lingering souls tokens, lightning bolt Pack rat and static the copy, killed 1 Dark Confidant.
The game continues with only izzet staticaster in play... we take like 6 turns each drawing nothing, then he kills me with 4 Celestial Colonnade hits, before i get killed I draw Path to exile for izzet staticaster but heNegate
I lose
and then i reveal my hand:
1 Fetchland, 3 Dark confidant, 1 lingering Souls... All food for izzet staticaster
I even end the game with 2 Lingering souls in graveyard.
I will have a better Sideboard for the next week!
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Castigate
3x Blind Obedience
2x Go for the Throat
3x Zealous Persecution
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Mirran Crusader
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Dismember
4x Lingering Souls
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
6x Plains
4x Swamp
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Scoured Barrens
2x Revoke Existence
3x Vampire Hexmage
3x Sin Collector
2x Black Sun's Zenith
4x Rain of Tears
3 Brimaz has worked fine for the most part, since I'm not running Liliana (yet) getting double white hasn't been too much of an issue (unless I get the double Mutavault and one fetch land type hand). He's so good against Aggro, and provides a good clock. Being bolt-proof is always nice too.
Thanks for the tips on playing against Amulet, it was the first time I'd played against it. Good to know that I was at least on the right track!
WRG Burn
WUG Spirits
I really like your idea ! let me know how it goes !
I beat G/R Tron last night 2-1, in game 1 he crushed me with turn 3 Karn followed up by another Karn after I killed the first one. I brought in 2 Stony Silence and 2 Fulminator Mage from the board, and they were enough to get me there games 2 and 3. Shutting off their eggs and Maps slows them down a good deal, and Fulminator can either keep them off Tron, or like it did for me last night, mess up their colored mana sources so they can't Pyroclasm/Ancient Stirrings/Sylvan Scrying. I was lucky to see both sideboard cards in both games, it's definitely a tough matchup without them. I also run two Ghost Quarter MD which helped game 2. Holding up Path for their Wurmcoils is essential.
WRG Burn
WUG Spirits
What do you think about Gideon Jura or Elspeth, Knight-Errant?
I found Gideon very good in our deck, its a ******* Giant wall for the enemies who cant ignore him, He Forces bad attacks just to trade creatures with our tokens or Kitchen Finks and them he can kill Tapped creatures or be a 6/6 indestructible wincon lategame.
(Also stops Twin from winning)